Jarrad Branthwaite

I actually agree with this, if you think we can get a promising English CB for 40m they’re in dream land.

60 will end up being a starting point for him.
We won't spend a lot of money and with Todibo available, some genuine link to the Boca CB and Tosin still a free agent, I don't see why we would need to panic over Braithwaite.

If Everton need to sell before end June they will need to meet in the middle far quicker than we do.
 
Why we going after him anyway if he’s left footed? Surely we need a right footed CB to replace Varane and hope Martinez stays fit. Or better still go for a CB that’s good on both feet
 
I actually agree with this, if you think we can get a promising English CB for 40m they’re in dream land.

60 will end up being a starting point for him.
Which is fine for Everton to ask for. It's also fine for us fans to think the juice is not worth the squeeze and hope the club looks elsewhere.
 
Which is fine for Everton to ask for. It's also fine for us fans to think the juice is not worth the squeeze and hope the club looks elsewhere.

I agree, but I think the irritation comes from fans appearing entitled/not understanding that value doesn't just mean quality of player and includes worth of that player to the selling club.
 
The quote is similar to Stone’s transfer fee with inflation considered, but how his ball control and passing compare with Stone? Anyone watching him shares some thoughts?

There's a City itk that has mentioned City being really interested in him before, and they basically rate him the same way the seen Stones, with similar qualities, obviously just left sided.

He's an odd signing to pair with Martinez as they don't necessarily compliment each other's game well.
Branthwaite (top 18% header win rate) is good in the air not great, Maguire (top 5% header win rate) and Varane (top 1% header win rate) are truely elite In the air. Of course Branthwaite is only 21 and could improve this aspect of his game, but right now, can't expect him to make up for Martinez's (bottom 1% win rate) deficiency in this area, leaving us aerially vulnerable.
The 2nd issue is, they're both left footed. Now I know Branthwaite played RCB before and is decent with his right foot, however, it's just not playing to his strength and I wonder how well he is passing will hold up in that role, under intense pressing.

He'd be a good signing as LCB because he doesn't have any glaring weaknesses, is an excellent duel winner and is young enough to almost guarantee he'll get even better in the future. However, LCB isn't the starting position we're recruiting for...or is it???
Ironically, he might compliment Maguire better than he does Martinez.

I think this transfer is a bit of an awkward fit with the players you have in the squad.

You have Martinez as left centre back ready, either him or Branthwaite would miss out. I'd probably agree with the earlier poster, if you wanted to play a City / Arsenal type of game, and if budget allowed, I'd be tempted to sign a right centre back, Branthwaite, and move Martinez to an inverting left back role. But then what do you do with Luke Shaw? Perhaps given both their injury problems, Martinez and Shaw could share that role, and also cover for Branthwaite if needed?
 
Its probably already been quoted here in this thread but Stephen Howson had a spot on analysis about some of the flaws he sees in Branthwaite's game. I personally am not sold and think there's better value in prospects like Todibo and Scalvini in Italy. (My preferred cb to partner the Butcher.)
I don't trust the ramblings of a man who irons his own patches onto his shirts. You can lump that guy in with Goldbridge, as a man who now only spouts stuff online for clout and monetisation.
 
Why we going after him anyway if he’s left footed? Surely we need a right footed CB to replace Varane and hope Martinez stays fit. Or better still go for a CB that’s good on both feet
I don't think it matters all that much. He's not a passer in the way Martinez is and he's comfortable using his right foot. There are plenty of CB pairings who are both right footed and it's not a problem - you just ideally want the LCB to be comfortable on their left foot.
 
Possibly controversial but I actively do not want us to sign him. Even for £40m fee he’s not got the correct technical level to do what we’ll want to do.

For £80m you’d need the whole package with no question marks.
The quote is similar to Stone’s transfer fee with inflation considered, but how his ball control and passing compare with Stone? Anyone watching him shares some thoughts?
Nowhere close to Stones in that regard.
 


2 CBs there. Which one would you rather have receiving from Onana?
 
Possibly controversial but I actively do not want us to sign him. Even for £40m fee he’s not got the correct technical level to do what we’ll want to do.

For £80m you’d need the whole package with no question marks.

Nowhere close to Stones in that regard.
If so, 80m is crazy. Regardless the price, we should target other players suiting the need.
 
If so, 80m is crazy. Regardless the price, we should target other players suiting the need.
Physically he’ll tick the boxes but he often dives into tackles and duels (likes a slide tackle) and unless he has time and space I’ve not seen much evidence of him passing under pressure how we’d want or receiving under pressure from his GK or other teammates.

Good player but also as a left footer predominantly I don’t see where he fits.
 
There's a City itk that has mentioned City being really interested in him before, and they basically rate him the same way the seen Stones, with similar qualities, obviously just left sided.



I think this transfer is a bit of an awkward fit with the players you have in the squad.

You have Martinez as left centre back ready, either him or Branthwaite would miss out. I'd probably agree with the earlier poster, if you wanted to play a City / Arsenal type of game, and if budget allowed, I'd be tempted to sign a right centre back, Branthwaite, and move Martinez to an inverting left back role. But then what do you do with Luke Shaw? Perhaps given both their injury problems, Martinez and Shaw could share that role, and also cover for Branthwaite if needed?
I suspect they maybe rebuilding the starting back line, with the exception of Dalot.

Also, these ideas out there that Martinez can play LB or DM for me just doesn't make sense. Sure he will be more than capable of doing the distribution work. Problem is, he would struggle massively in defence. Martinez is an elite close space defender. He gets in attackers pockets because he loves the fight and he's able to sort out his feet quicker than most can, due to his low centre of gravity, this is why he's so good on the front foot. Put him in DM or at LB and it's all open spaces. He would get skinned all the time. We've seen glimpses of this already e.g. the 1 v 1 with Antonio in the United v Westham game last season. Or against Salah etc.

He's a unique defender than you almost have to build your team around. If you do it successfully, the pay off is huge. Problem is, if he gets injured, you better have a lite version of him, ready to come in.
 
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I think 90m is a total fantasy. Theres too many good, proven, established options for half that figure this summer. I just dont think were shopping in that kind of market and we'll move on immediately with them kind of numbers. They can take the Brigton approach but i just dont think theres any teams with that kind of budget / desperation to sell to this year.
I dont even think were that inclined to branthwaite specifically, just that he might be available at a good price.
 
I watched the video he done a few selective clips it was hilarious where was the good clips for balance? He could have done an analysis of his stats at PSV v last season. I guess the results wouldn’t have suited his narrative.

The most glaring omission in the video, is he does not assign a market value to Branthwaite.

“I don’t think he’s worth x“ ok mr stats man based on what? give me an evaluation of the centre half market in the premier league then add home grown premium. Stones + inflation, Fofana Maquire etc.

Fair point on the valuation bit.
 
No way we’re paying what Everton want for him. I’m going to say we’re not spending over 50/60mil on a single player for a little while.
 
No way we’re paying what Everton want for him. I’m going to say we’re not spending over 50/60mil on a single player for a little while.
We might but not for a defender and not unless they're going to be a guaranteed starter.
 
Why we going after him anyway if he’s left footed? Surely we need a right footed CB to replace Varane and hope Martinez stays fit. Or better still go for a CB that’s good on both feet
Let’s think of this logically. Martinez is off a season impacted by many injuries. A smart club doesn’t expect him to play a full season next season, he should be given time to rest and specifically should be looked after with playing time. So a younger LCB (who could also play next to Martinez) is a great idea. A club of our side should have 3 star studded CBs and then two backup options (backups most like Kambwala and another young CB with maguire off most likely. If not it’s maguire but he’s missed a lot of season with injury). Lindelof gotta be off.

If shaw could stay fit we wouldn’t have to sign another LCB cause he rotated so well with Martinez, or more so likely he slotted in when Martinez was injured.


There's a City itk that has mentioned City being really interested in him before, and they basically rate him the same way the seen Stones, with similar qualities, obviously just left sided.



I think this transfer is a bit of an awkward fit with the players you have in the squad.

You have Martinez as left centre back ready, either him or Branthwaite would miss out. I'd probably agree with the earlier poster, if you wanted to play a City / Arsenal type of game, and if budget allowed, I'd be tempted to sign a right centre back, Branthwaite, and move Martinez to an inverting left back role. But then what do you do with Luke Shaw? Perhaps given both their injury problems, Martinez and Shaw could share that role, and also cover for Branthwaite if needed?

Luke Shaw can’t be relied upon unfortunately. It seems like the club is going to give Martinez a chance, but no sane person would have him play more than 55 to 60 percent of the games next season (prioritize the league and rest him for the cup games.)

I get the concern that Martinez and Branthwaite would conflict playing time but on the contrary it’s a perfect way to break Branthwaite into the team and rightfully so rotate a player like Martinez.


I don't trust the ramblings of a man who irons his own patches onto his shirts. You can lump that guy in with Goldbridge, as a man who now only spouts stuff online for clout and monetisation.

I’ve just listened a bit to a Goldbridge video and he didn’t bring up any statistics for an analysis of our players.

i get it if you don’t like Howson personally, but his videos are on a complete different level than Goldbridge, Goldbridge is popcorn emotional content and Howson brings a lot more to back up whatever he is saying.

1:55 is when he pulls up first numbers



 
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Physically he’ll tick the boxes but he often dives into tackles and duels (likes a slide tackle) and unless he has time and space I’ve not seen much evidence of him passing under pressure how we’d want or receiving under pressure from his GK or other teammates.

Good player but also as a left footer predominantly I don’t see where he fits.
It sounds like AWB mark II?!
 
I suspect they maybe rebuilding the starting back line, with the exception of Dalot.

Also, these ideas out there that Martinez can play LB or DM for me just doesn't make sense. Sure he will be more than capable of doing the distribution work. Problem is, he would struggle massively in defence. Martinez is an elite close space defender. He gets in attackers pockets because he loves the fight and he's able to sort out his feet quicker than most can, due to his low centre of gravity, this is why he's so good on the front foot. Put him in DM or at LB and it's all open spaces. He would get skinned all the time. We've seen glimpses of this already e.g. the 1 v 1 with Antonio in the United v Westham game last season. Or against Salah etc.

He's a unique defender than you almost have to build your team around. If you do it successfully, the pay off is huge. Problem is, if he gets injured, you better have a lite version of him, ready to come in.

I'm just basically doing a comparison to Zinchenko in Arsenal's system. You'd surely have him as more defensively sound than Zinchenko, even in a role that exposes him slightly?

You can setup like Arsenal have with the left centre back (Gabriel / Branthwaite) shifting slightly more left to cover that area.

The main problem with Zinchenko isn't really the exposed space, it's that he's just not good at defending 1 vs 1, as Liverpool exposed with Trent nutmegging him in the build up for the equaliser in 22/23, and Salah last season cutting inside him way to easily for the equaliser last season. You'd imagine Martinez handling those situations way better?

Let’s think of this logically. Martinez is off a season impacted by many injuries. A smart club doesn’t expect him to play a full season next season, he should be given time to rest and specifically should be looked after with playing time. So a younger LCB (who could also play next to Martinez) is a great idea. A club of our side should have 3 star studded CBs and then two backup options (backups most like Kambwala and another young CB with maguire off most likely. If not it’s maguire but he’s missed a lot of season with injury). Lindelof gotta be off.

If shaw could stay fit we wouldn’t have to sign another LCB cause he rotated so well with Martinez, or more so likely he slotted in when Martinez was injured.




Luke Shaw can’t be relied upon unfortunately. It seems like the club is going to give Martinez a chance, but no sane person would have him play more than 55 to 60 percent of the games next season (prioritize the league and rest him for the cup games.)

I get the concern that Martinez and Branthwaite would conflict playing time but on the contrary it’s a perfect way to break Branthwaite into the team and rightfully so rotate a player like Martinez.

I think it could work if you think Branthwaite could play alongside Martinez at centre back, or are happy for Martinez to shift over to left back.

But if your looking at Branthwaite and Martinez as solely competing for that left centre back position, while I get what you are saying about next season sharing game time, how does that work the season after if both remain fit?
 
He tackles because he is a good tackler. Amazing how much people have gotten used to defenders not defending.
 
He tackles because he is a good tackler. Amazing how much people have gotten used to defenders not defending.
He’s a very good tackler. I’m pointing out though that he runs a fine line here often due to literally diving into them and sliding a lot.

I can see that being an issue for a United CB if we want to play a higher line press as he’ll be more exposed to 1v1 duels. I’d rather a defender that can match for pace and shoulder/outmuscle their way into possession.
 
Let’s think of this logically. Martinez is off a season impacted by many injuries. A smart club doesn’t expect him to play a full season next season, he should be given time to rest and specifically should be looked after with playing time. So a younger LCB (who could also play next to Martinez) is a great idea. A club of our side should have 3 star studded CBs and then two backup options (backups most like Kambwala and another young CB with maguire off most likely. If not it’s maguire but he’s missed a lot of season with injury). Lindelof gotta be off.

If shaw could stay fit we wouldn’t have to sign another LCB cause he rotated so well with Martinez, or more so likely he slotted in when Martinez was injured.




Luke Shaw can’t be relied upon unfortunately. It seems like the club is going to give Martinez a chance, but no sane person would have him play more than 55 to 60 percent of the games next season (prioritize the league and rest him for the cup games.)

I get the concern that Martinez and Branthwaite would conflict playing time but on the contrary it’s a perfect way to break Branthwaite into the team and rightfully so rotate a player like Martinez.




I’ve just listened a bit to a Goldbridge video and he didn’t bring up any statistics for an analysis of our players.

i get it if you don’t like Howson personally, but his videos are on a complete different level than Goldbridge, Goldbridge is popcorn emotional content and Howson brings a lot more to back up whatever he is saying.

1:55 is when he pulls up first numbers




So slow and clumsy.
 
I know that you’ve probably got stats to back it up but Gabriel has always looked useful in the air scored a few from corners.

Todibo, I have an issue with pairing him with Martinez in the PL. unless we are moving to 3 at the back with someone in the middle of them who can win those headers. Otherwise it will always be a vulnerability for us
I personally feel you can work around individual vulnerabilities in the air by beefing up other positions to compensate when it comes to controlling or containing aerial bombardment into our own box.

You're correct about Gabriel being useful in the air and he has contributed by scoring a fair few goals. But if we take a closer look at Arsenal and how they go about containing threats aerially, then it's clear to see that they don't just rely on their CBs, but they also have a midfield player in Declan Rice who is aerially strong, along with two fullbacks/CBs in Ben White and Tomiyasu who are also aerially strong. White, Tomiyasu and Rice are aerially very strong.

So I agree that we do need to maintain our standards when it comes to handling aerial threats, but I feel we don't need to place all that responsibility on the CBs and instead create a team where our fullbacks and deeper midfielder also contribute towards quelling the airborne threat posed by the opposition. But I feel we need to do this without compromising on technical quality on the ball. And if I'm to use Arsenal as a example again, then their CBs and fullbacks contribute in a big way to how they go about controlling the game in possession aswell as controlling the game out of possession.

Why alot of our fans were against the signing of Declan Rice was because they felt he didn't provide the creative spark from midfield. But the way Arteta is developing his team, he doesn't need individuals in midfield to control the game in possession because he has multiple weapons at CB and at fullback who have the capability to penetrate the opponent's defensive lines and support the midfield as far as progressing play is concerned.

Eventhough my preference would be to sign Ousmane Diomande or even Leny Yoro. I feel if we go with a CB pairing of Todibo and Martinez, I feel we can compensate for their aerial vulnerability and in the process significantly raise the technical level of the team in-possession.

I feel the player from Everton that we should prioritise is Amadou Onana because I feel his physical presence, athletic ability and under rated technical ability will have a bigger impact on how we control the game both ways. But If Everton price us out of a move for him then I feel there's still numerous players that we can target to potentially improve the team and create a system of play where we don't necessarily depend on one or two individuals.

So I'm going to try and be realistic and provide some names that I feel won't be costly and are of the right age and ability profile to have a similar impact to how Arsenal have gone about developing their team. And it's taken them several years but what they've done is very basic imo.

I think Diogo Dalot has potential as the RB and his ability on the ball this season has been very good. I think for the LB position there seems to be noise about United wanting to sign a player and we've been linked to the Wolves player Ait Nouri who I like and the lad from Bournemouth who I don't know too much about. But in this position I feel they should look to sign a LB who can also play as the CB. If this player also has the technical game in possession along with the aerial ability then he would be on my list. And also sign a deeper lying midfielder with good progressive ability on the ball, duel winning capability both on the ground and on the air.

I would hope we're seriously looking at the Bologna LB/LCB Riccardo Calafiori. He's recently turned 22, very comfortable in possession with potentially high progressive capabilities in possession and he's also a strong dueller out of possession where he's strong on the ground and in the air. He's about 6'1 tall and a player who I feel would be a very interesting signing for us.

So if we did get priced out of a move for Amadou Onana, then I feel the Feyenoord midfielder Mats Wieffer would be a interesting option. He's showing a very high level when it comes to winning aerial and ground duels. His progressive passing is also of a high level and being 6'4 tall, he covers ground really well and I don't feel he will have a problem with the physicality of the league. I've watched him play against strong European opposition like Atletico Madrid and his level didn't drop. The pie chart below basically backs up the eye as far as his monster capability in the air and on the ground with his progressive passing being also of a very high level.


https://x.com/bethlimb/status/1790323269624557585?t=DFU1ZzZL1yZRn050ZJCpbw&s=09
 
There’s no chance Ineos go to the penny pinching lengths they are currently doing to then counteract it by splurging 80m on a basic enough looking CB with some potential, English or not.
 
He’s a very good tackler. I’m pointing out though that he runs a fine line here often due to literally diving into them and sliding a lot.

I can see that being an issue for a United CB if we want to play a higher line press as he’ll be more exposed to 1v1 duels. I’d rather a defender that can match for pace and shoulder/outmuscle their way into possession.
That sounds like big Willy so I hope we give him a chance before we splash a load of cash on a player of a similar age.
 
I think it could work if you think Branthwaite could play alongside Martinez at centre back, or are happy for Martinez to shift over to left back.

But if your looking at Branthwaite and Martinez as solely competing for that left centre back position, while I get what you are saying about next season sharing game time, how does that work the season after if both remain fit?
Call me crazy but the whole 2 quality players for each position saying people throw around is most important for center back and striker.
They could play together during the second season ,or they could still rotate. Martinez isn’t a talent you just be careful with next season, we have to realize how to utilize him. Running players into the ground (rashford last season, Bruno) isn’t logical. I would rotate them both and if they played together - then we have an even better option.

with footballs more so congested schedule, and Argentinas heavy schedule also Martinez will always have more the enough games to be happy about. He’s a very intense player. Those players are so useful but you have to be careful.

ineos handling of him is a big sign of how they want to do things.

So slow and clumsy.
Who? Branthwaite? Then he’s not for us
 


2 CBs there. Which one would you rather have receiving from Onana?


Diomande? But wouldn't he be a right sided option and Branthwaite a lefty? Then there's the fact that one is managed by Amorin in Portugal and the other by Dyche in the PL.

Although I'm not even sure we really need a LCB at all, let alone one who'll cost as much as Everton will ask and hasn't really proven himself worth that pricetag at all. Seems to be just a media pushed rumour to me, as it doesn't seem to make much sense at all. He needs another, better season at Everton before anyone's waving £70m at them in my opinion.
 
Diomande? But wouldn't he be a right sided option and Branthwaite a lefty? Then there's the fact that one is managed by Amorin in Portugal and the other by Dyche in the PL.

Although I'm not even sure we really need a LCB at all, let alone one who'll cost as much as Everton will ask and hasn't really proven himself worth that pricetag at all. Seems to be just a media pushed rumour to me, as it doesn't seem to make much sense at all. He needs another, better season at Everton before anyone's waving £70m at them in my opinion.
Yes but that’s also kind of the point. I’d much rather a player who is used to being on the ball and duelling 1v1 with the capability to defend opens spaces that for me doesn’t represent a massive compromise on either the physical or technical requirements we have.

Diomande has had time to play the kind of role and perform the actions we need. Only a small example but Everton launch the ball from GKs ~60% of the time according to Fbref compared to Sporting who do it ~27% of the time.

I think we need a LCB option depending on what happens with Maguire and Lindelof. I’d imagine at least one is sold (my money on Lindelof) and then id expect a LB to be signed. Whether this LB is a starter will then influence what we do at LCB.

Conceivably we could have:

RB: Dalot, AWB
RCB: New CB, Maguire
LCB: Martinez, New CB
LB: Shaw, New LB, Malacia

With Shaw able to rotate LCB.
 
Yes but that’s also kind of the point. I’d much rather a player who is used to being on the ball and duelling 1v1 with the capability to defend opens spaces that for me doesn’t represent a massive compromise on either the physical or technical requirements we have.

Diomande has had time to play the kind of role and perform the actions we need. Only a small example but Everton launch the ball from GKs ~60% of the time according to Fbref compared to Sporting who do it ~27% of the time.

I think we need a LCB option depending on what happens with Maguire and Lindelof. I’d imagine at least one is sold (my money on Lindelof) and then id expect a LB to be signed. Whether this LB is a starter will then influence what we do at LCB.

Conceivably we could have:

RB: Dalot, AWB
RCB: New CB, Maguire
LCB: Martinez, New CB
LB: Shaw, New LB, Malacia

With Shaw able to rotate LCB.

Makes sense. If you want to build from the back and have a rest defence that can cover half the pitch effectively, probably best not to be ringing Everton right now.

I'm of the opinion that we should go for whoever the best left back we're able to get is, and use Shaw to cover Licha when needed while rotating the fullback position. We do actually have numbers at CB, but it's a case of needing a Varane-level defender who's available more often.

Meanwhile we've played something like 70% of the season gone with no left back, which makes it a very high (possibly even the highest) priority position to me. I think playing with no LB at all probably costs you more points than playing with one less-than-stellar CB in the backline.
 
Makes sense. If you want to build from the back and have a rest defence that can cover half the pitch effectively, probably best not to be ringing Everton right now.

I'm of the opinion that we should go for whoever the best left back we're able to get is, and use Shaw to cover Licha when needed while rotating the fullback position. We do actually have numbers at CB, but it's a case of needing a Varane-level defender who's available more often.

Meanwhile we've played something like 70% of the season gone with no left back, which makes it a very high (possibly even the highest) priority position to me. I think playing with no LB at all probably costs you more points than playing with one less-than-stellar CB in the backline.
I’d be delighted with a fit CB that suits our profile and a fit LB too. If we can get another CB that would be great too.
 
Doesn’t seem like anyone else is interested at that price either so why not wait until next summer, his price can’t increase much more and we can buy someone just as capable for half the price this summer considering our tight budget.
 
Yes but that’s also kind of the point. I’d much rather a player who is used to being on the ball and duelling 1v1 with the capability to defend opens spaces that for me doesn’t represent a massive compromise on either the physical or technical requirements we have.

Diomande has had time to play the kind of role and perform the actions we need. Only a small example but Everton launch the ball from GKs ~60% of the time according to Fbref compared to Sporting who do it ~27% of the time.

I think we need a LCB option depending on what happens with Maguire and Lindelof. I’d imagine at least one is sold (my money on Lindelof) and then id expect a LB to be signed. Whether this LB is a starter will then influence what we do at LCB.

Conceivably we could have:

RB: Dalot, AWB
RCB: New CB, Maguire
LCB: Martinez, New CB
LB: Shaw, New LB, Malacia

With Shaw able to rotate LCB.
Big Willy and maybe Evan’s to cover too. I think that would work.

Also might be Lindelof instead of Maguire.
 
Big Willy and maybe Evan’s to cover too. I think that would work.

Also might be Lindelof instead of Maguire.
I think Evans did a great job this season. But he shouldn’t be anywhere near a first team squad in a playing capacity if we are being honest.

Kambwala should be the 5th CB.
 
I think Evans did a great job this season. But he shouldn’t be anywhere near a first team squad in a playing capacity if we are being honest.

Kambwala should be the 5th CB.
Oh yeah and Evan’s as 6 maybe.

I’m thinking partly as someone who’d be great in training, help guide younger defenders and play less than 5 games next season.

Also a link to SAF has to stay for me. :lol: