James Rodriguez | joins Bayern Munich | 2 year loan

James Rodriguez - should we go for him?

  • Yes

    Votes: 404 34.6%
  • No

    Votes: 565 48.4%
  • I hate Silly Season

    Votes: 198 17.0%

  • Total voters
    1,167
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Being Colombian, James is easily an outstanding player. He's a true star and shows that in every single game (it's hard to find a game where he plays badly). If you've seen him this season at RM, in almost all games he played he always came up with something, be that an inch perfect cross, a great through pass or popping up as a poucher to score.

He's a really, really great player, and I don't say that about many Colombians, to be honest (Falcao 2012, Asprilla, for example).

That being said, if he's benched regularly at Utd you'll get the hate of this whole nation aimed at both your club and Mourinho :D
 
Why? He's far better than Rooney, Lingard, Mata, and Martial who all played lots of minutes for us last season.

Better than Rashford and Mkhi as well (but closer and Rashford is obviously a future player)
Yup. He'd be a very good addition for us. Get him and we'd be vastly improved as an attacking force.
 
You are the one making assumptions alongside silly declarative statements.
In your dreams. I'm yet to make a single assumption nor a declarative statement. I merely pointed out the simple fact Real provided a basic template for playing without a natural 10 in midfield, which I believe we have the personnel to use. You on the other hand raced away on a laughable tangent. Implying you can only use Real's template with Real's exact players being the most laughable of them all.
 
In your dreams. I'm yet to make a single assumption nor a declarative statement. I merely pointed out the simple fact Real provided a basic template for playing without a natural 10, which I believe we have the personnel to use. You on the other hand raced away on a laughable tangent. Implying you can only use Real's template with Real's exact players bring the most laughable of them all.

Chelsea too showed it this season.
 
In your dreams. I'm yet to make a single assumption nor a declarative statement. I merely pointed out the simple fact Real provided a basic template for playing without a natural 10 in midfield, which I believe we have the personnel to use. You on the other hand raced away on a laughable tangent. Implying you can only use Real's template with Real's exact players being the most laughable of them all.
You made a silly declarative statement as if Real were an example to follow.

Real were not the first nor the only team playing without a tradition #10 and same Real have also played with a #10. The level of success they have had has less to do with whether they have a #10 or not, but the high quality of players they have on the pitch. If you dont have their quality, you can copy the formation all you want, you will not replicate their success. Thus the fallacy in your declarative statement.

Your assumption, as stated in your response, is that only a #10 can be a playmaker - now that is truly laughable
Chelsea too showed it this season.
and they are nothing like Real.

There are many formations and systems in football, with or without a #10. Suggesting that one copies the formation and/or system of another team, without having the elements that make such a system successful is simply folly at its finest.
 
Why? He's far better than Rooney, Lingard, Mata, and Martial who all played lots of minutes for us last season.

Better than Rashford and Mkhi as well (but closer and Rashford is obviously a future player)
I dont think him being better matters that much. We all know he is better than the lot we've got. What seems to me (Judging by our reported interest in Parisic) to be important for the recruitment is Discipline, work rate and matching the "philosophy" of manager. So far, what i have gathered by watching him play is that he doesn't like tracking back, he is a bit of a drama queen (as reported by spanish paper, although tell a lot of bull shit) and will he be willing to be benched if he doesn't do exactly what the manager wants of him (like Martial)
 
You made a silly declarative statement as if Real were an example to follow.
Dude, you need to wake up. I merely pointed them out as an example of a team using the template I mentioned. Nothing else

Real were not the first nor the only team playing without a tradition #10 and same Real have also played with a #10. ...
:lol: You must be high? At what point did I imply Real are the ONLY team that play without a 10 in center midfield? Nor imply that they don't ever use a 10? You have simply conflated me mentioning Real as an example of the template I highlighted with all these assumptions you've made on your own. Creating one inane straw man in the process:lol:


The level of success they have had has less to do with whether they have a #10 or not, but the high quality of players they have on the pitch......
Their level of success is next to utterly irrelevant to a discussion about a playing template they happen to employ. You once again have conflated wanting to use Real's current playing template with wanting to do exactly what Real does, and expecting their exact success. They are not related. I'm utterly uninterested in Real's success. Its their formation template I'm discussing.

If you dont have their quality, you can copy the formation all you want, you will not replicate their success. Thus the fallacy in your declarative statement.
Actually the only fallacy going on here is this straw man you have invented.
I have not indicated any where I want us to emulate Real's exact playing style and success. All I indicated was we can use their formation template. We can definitely employ two attacking fullbacks that can defend (Valencia and one other), a water carrier good at recycling possession (who we are signing this summer), two numbers 8s ( Pogba and Herrera), a wide play maker ( Mhikitaryan, Mata, or a James), a direct winger on the opposite flank (Persic, Rashford, Martial, Lingard), a lead center forward (Morata, Rashford, Martial). I'd like us to play in such a template strictly because its clear it suits the players we have and those we are targetting. And most importantly it will suit Mourinho's preferred style.

That does not in any shape of form require us to have the exact players Madrid has to execute, nor to play their exact style of football nor to emulate their exact success. It really isn't hard to understand....

The rest of your straw man is just way too off side to address
 
Dude, you need to wake up. I merely pointed them out as an example of a team using the template I mentioned. Nothing else

:lol: You must be high? At what point did I imply Real are the ONLY team that play without a 10 in center midfield? Nor imply that they don't ever use a 10? You have simply conflated me mentioning Real as an example of the template I highlighted with all these assumptions you've made on your own. Creating one inane straw man in the process:lol:
Then you need to work on your composition and find better ways to express your ideas. Your post used Real in support of your proposal (by stating "Real has shown") and not just as an example to illustrate it.
Their level of success is next to utterly irrelevant to a discussion about a playing template they happen to employ. You once again have conflated wanting to use Real's current playing template with wanting to do exactly what Real does, and expecting their exact success. They are not related. I'm utterly uninterested in Real's success. Its their formation template I'm discussing.
If their success is irrelevant then how have Real shown that you dont really need a true 10? By just running around on the pitch?
Actually the only fallacy going on here is this straw man you have invented.
I have not indicated any where I want us to emulate Real's exact playing style and success. All I indicated was we can use their formation template. We can definitely employ two attacking fullbacks that can defend (Valencia and one other), a water carrier good at recycling possession (who we are signing this summer), two numbers 8s ( Pogba and Herrera), a wide play maker ( Mhikitaryan, Mata, or a James), a direct winger on the opposite flank (Persic, Rashford, Martial, Lingard), a lead center forward (Morata, Rashford, Martial). I'd like us to play in such a template strictly because its clear it suits the players we have and those we are targetting. And most importantly it will suit Mourinho's preferred style.

That does not in any shape of form require us to have the exact players Madrid has to execute, nor to play their exact style of football nor to emulate their exact success. It really isn't hard to understand....

The rest of your straw man is just way too off side to address
I am not sure you know what a straw man is.

Now you dont want us to be successful like Real, then why should we adopt your proposal? In fact of what use is your proposal if it is not to bring success like real had?

Your proposal does not suit Mourinho's style as he has not played like that since his first stint at Chelsea. Since then he has fielded a #10 in all his teams. What Mourinho has shown a preference for is 4-2-3-1

As to players, your proposed formation does not suit the players we have, cos we dont have the quality of depth in midfield (Fellaini would be first sub) and you will be playing one of our better players in Mata, and potentially one of our best in James, out of position just to suit your fantasy. Your proposal will also likely limit playing time for talented young players in Rashford and Martial.
 
and they are nothing like Real.

There are many formations and systems in football, with or without a #10. Suggesting that one copies the formation and/or system of another team, without having the elements that make such a system successful is simply folly at its finest.

But they are Champions of england and did it with style breaking Mourinho's record In Epl with chelsea.

Also Arsenal found better balance and form with a 343 system they switched to, They have been terribly inconsistant and lacking balance in a 4231 with Ozil as a cam even with sanchez in the team Who scored many goals.
 
Then you need to work on your composition and find better ways to express your ideas.
I'm really not responsible for your lack of proper comprehension skills. There was nothing unclear about 1 single thing I stated.

Your post used Real in support of your proposal (by stating "Real has shown") and not just as an example to illustrate it.
NO! Saying Real has shown a how to do something makes it very obvious that they are mere an example of what is being mentioned. For this to even be remotely debatable to anyone is truly remarkable..


If their success is irrelevant then how have Real shown that you dont really need a true 10?
By showing a team can function with the template formation that I highlighted, with a given set of personnel that suits it, obviously. As usual you are conflating a person arguing that a team has shown that a given formation template works well, with a person urging the use of that template in order to replicate the success of the team being highlighted as an example of the said template

I am not sure you know what a straw man is
That is rich coming from a person persisting with a straw man.

Now you dont want us to be successful like Real, then why should we adopt your proposal?
Because that proposal is about us getting the best out of the playing personnel we have and are set to purchase. Not about us trying to be copy cats of Real Madrid. That should be fairly obvious. You are the one who is strangely obsessed with replicating Real's current success down to the personnel. I'm more interested in United being the best United it can be. Which will comfortably make us competitive again on all fronts. Simple

In fact of what use is your proposal if it is not to bring success like real had?
Its use would be to bring back the consistent competitive edge and sucess United used to have and got used to under SAF. Real's success is of no relevance to that because they are so obviously NOT Manchester United.


Your proposal does not suit Mourinho's style as he has not played like that since his first stint at Chelsea. Since then he has fielded a #10 in all his teams. What Mourinho has shown a preference for is 4-2-3-1
That is because since he left Chelsea he hasn't inherited a squad the suit his first Chelsea formation. Obviously. Right now his first choice midfielder pair are better suited to a 4-3-3 than a 4-2-3-1.

As to players, your proposed formation does not suit the players we have, cos we dont have the quality of depth in midfield (Fellaini would be first sub) and you will be playing one of our better players in Mata, and potentially one of our best in James, out of position just to suit your fantasy.
You really love to engage in assumption don't you?

First, United currently have 6 players who can operate as double 8s. Herrera and Pogba who are first choice. Mikhitarayan, Mata, Pereira and Fellaini. There is no good reason to claim 'we lack the depth in midfield' to play that way.


Second, there is no bigger myth that keeps being pushed on here that Mata and James are 'out of position' as wide playmakers. Time and again for us, even vs the toughest opponents Mata has been our best player in his wide playmaker role. As for James, he made his name as a wide playmaker first at Porto before being switched to 10 at Monaco.

Third, I'm the one engaging in fantasy. That is why I'm not the one proposing finding players exactly like what Real posses currently before we can use the template formation the use....

Your proposal will also likely limit playing time for talented young players in Rashford and Martial.

:lol: Seriously? Did you see Rashford's playing time reduce last season because we employed one up front, two wide attackers and a variation of a 3 man midfield and a 4-2-3-1 shape? Even the world and his dog know the only reason Martial was getting regularly benched by Mourinho is poor form. Not any system we used!
Its even more crazy that you imagine playing 4-3-3 will reduce their playing time and 4-2-3-1 would not. Martial and Rashford will only have less playing time if their form stays poor like Martial's was last season, or if they fail to prove able to cope with competition from the new men Mourinho will certainly purchase this summer.
 
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No idea whats been going on above, but its pretty ironic that people always give out about only wanting players that want to play for United and here is James Rodriguez who really wants to join us by most accounts and we have no interest.
 
No idea whats been going on above, but its pretty ironic that people always give out about only wanting players that want to play for United and here is James Rodriguez who really wants to join us by most accounts and we have no interest.

There will be literally thousands of professional football players who would be absolutely desperate to join United, given the chance, and we'll be interested in a tiny fraction of them.
 
No idea whats been going on above, but its pretty ironic that people always give out about only wanting players that want to play for United and here is James Rodriguez who really wants to join us by most accounts and we have no interest.

Own squad is unbalanced and a mix of styles and systems , and probably we should not be complicating it further.
 
There will be literally thousands of professional football players who would be absolutely desperate to join United, given the chance, and we'll be interested in a tiny fraction of them.

True, but very very few of them are actually good enough to play for us/or would improve us in any way. And in the current market actually available. Whether James is good enough/improve us is totally down to personal opinion I guess.
 
True, but very very few of them are actually good enough to play for us/or would improve us in any way. And in the current market actually available. Whether James is good enough/improve us is totally down to personal opinion I guess.

Its more about Football Logic and Team balance than personal opinion.
 
Well, the Poll does not agree with that statement, While also if it was a logical we would already be in for him yet there is no intrest from Our side.
Just because its your logic does not make it logical

As for public opinion, in the era of brexit and trump you answered your own comment! Just because you are popular does not make you right.
 
Its more about Football Logic and Team balance than personal opinion.
So in your opinion United can never achieve balance using a 4-2-3-1? Imo it all depends on the nature and quality of the DM we choose to sign and play because a DM like Makelele and Pogba in a two are enough against 80% of our opponents in the league so if we signed a high quality DM we will be fine playing James, Mata or Mkhi ahead of that two. What we need more than anything is more goals and assists from various sources, James guarantees that and game defining individual brilliance.
 
United haven't let out much this window or the last. On Morata, Perisic and Lindelof as well, leaks all came from the selling clubs. As such, don't think there can be a definitive opinion on our interest or lack thereof. Frankly, I feel he'd be a mighty asset for Jose's preferred 4-2-3-1 system. Then again, given how his signings played out last year, happy to go with his choice...
 
So in your opinion United can never achieve balance using a 4-2-3-1? Imo it all depends on the nature and quality of the DM we choose to sign and play because a DM like Makelele and Pogba in a two are enough against 80% of our opponents in the league so if we signed a high quality DM we will be fine playing James, Mata or Mkhi ahead of that two. What we need more than anything is more goals and assists from various sources, James guarantees that and game defining individual brilliance.

Not With these set of players, Absolutely not. A system demands over all balance in the team and the squad not just in midfeild and in the first team. Supposedly If we sign Matic as a DM And pair him with pogba That would be a balanced midfeild but in that case our Wingers lack work rate and work horse nature and energy to be effective on the wings both offensively and defensively at the same time Against a top quality opposition which was evident all season with struggling wingers and full backs who were offensively nullified by other teams defenses. Also a player like herrera is then benched for most of the season . Martial MKH Shaw Lingard Mata have all struggled to cope with that work rate demands and defensive duties loaded on to them in a 4231, therefore that system will still lack balance and force the players which needs to play to be benched.

Also When one of the Midfeilder in Pogba or New Dm gets injured or rested than No other Midfeilder on the bench can fill in their spot properly and the midfeild too will lack balance along with the wide wingers. So the squad and bench steength is also not capable of playing in a 4231 without sacrifizing the team balance.

In a 433 Wide players can be freed of defensive duties which makes them push higher and higher and they are more effective in attack Without having to track back while the midfeilders can contribute defensively and win the ball back to launch a counter with wide players who are already forward and have to run Just 50 m instead of 100 m to attack. Also in case of injuries a 3 man midfeild is still balanced with the players on the bench, Where carrick has lost that legs to win the ball back against energetic and more mobile midfeilders and fellani lacks Positional dicipline and vision to effectivey play in a 2 man midfeild so they are also both better off in a Midfeild 3.

Also there are top managers in epl now with top teams in top 5 Who Has Planned against a 4231 system Which was most widely used in epl and have top players to get their system working So a 433 is a better system to play against the likes of chelsea liverpool city and arsenal in the league and also in the champions league . For Example Antonio Conte's Chelsea Solved the Unbalanced chelsea with mourinho's problem and planned against a 4231 with his 343 to make 4231 obsolete and make his chelsea squad more balanced with those set of players. So playing in a 4231 system against chelsea will get us nowhere against them or city or arsenal or liverpool because they are better balanced team. That's why Mourinho had to revert to 352 against chelsea at home to beat them because it provided better balance and space for our forwards.

This is how conte stopped 4231 and won the title


So Overall 4231 is an unbalanced system with these set of players and the overall squad and other top 5 teams have their systems in place already to make it obsolete Including european top teams.
 
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Not With these set of players, Absolutely not. A system demands over all balance in the team and the squad not just in midfeild and in the first team. Supposedly If we sign Matic as a DM And pair him with pogba That would be a balanced midfeild but in that case our Wingers lack work rate and work horse nature and energy to be effective on the wings both offensively and defensively at the same time Against a top quality opposition which was evident all season with struggling wingers and full backs who were offensively nullified by other teams defenses. Also a player like herrera is then benched for most of the season . Martial MKH Shaw Lingard Mata have all struggled to cope with that work rate demands and defensive duties loaded on to them in a 4231, therefore that system will still lack balance and force the players which needs to play to be benched.
Also When one of the Midfeilder in Pogba or New Dm gets injured or rested than No other Midfeilder on the bench can fill in their spot properly and the midfeild too will lack balance along with the wide wingers. So the squad and bench steength is also not capable of playing in a 4231 without sacrifizing the team balance.

In a 433 Wide players can be freed of defensive duties which makes them push higher and higher and they are more effective in attack Without having to track back while the midfeilders can contribute defensively and win the ball back to launch a counter with wide players who are already forward and have to run Just 50 m instead of 100 m to attack. Also in case of injuries a 3 man midfeild is still balanced with the players on the bench, Where carrick has lost that legs to win the ball back against energetic and more mobile midfeilders and fellani lacks Positional dicipline and vision to effectivey play in a 2 man midfeild so they are also both better off in a Midfeild 3.

Also there are top managers in epl now with top teams in top 5 Who Has Planned against a 4231 system Which was most widely used in epl and have top players to get their system working So a 433 is a better system to play against the likes of chelsea liverpool city and arsenal in the league and also in the champions league . For Example Antonio Conte's Chelsea Solved the Unbalanced chelsea with mourinho's problem and planned against a 4231 with his 343 to make 4231 obsolete and make his chelsea squad more balanced with those set of players. So playing in a 4231 system against chelsea will get us nowhere against them or city or arsenal or liverpool because they are better balanced team. That's why Mourinho had to revert to 352 against chelsea at home to beat them because it provided better balance and space for our forwards.

This is how conte stopped 4231 and won the title


So Overall 4231 is an unbalanced system with these set of players and the overall squad and other top 5 teams have their systems in place already to make it obsolete Including european top teams.


Most of our games will be played against weaker opposition and thus we should not base the choice of the base formation on our most difficult oppositions but on the most common. A 4-2-3-1 gives you an extra attacker in the final 3rd while 4-3-3 gives you an extra person in central midfield. Given most oppositions are weaker than us, and our profligacy in front of goal, a 4-2-3-1 is better suited as our base formation with a 4-3-3 used when needed.

In Pogba, we have potentially the most complete and dominant midfielder the game has seen. With Pogba aided by a very good DM, we are likely able to control the midfield against all other 2-man midfield and most 3-man. That extra man should be utilized elsewhere on the pitch and not wasted in crowding the midfield further.

Assuming Pogb + DM are first choice, then Herrera goes to the bench, which to me is a very good thing, cos Herrera can fill in for either position in the dual pivot and he is good enough that there is a low drop in quality when he plays. In the rare scenario that we lose 2 of the 3 preferred choices ( i.e. DM, Pogba and Herrera), we can start 2 of Fellaini, Carrick or Pereira in a 4-3-3. Whereas if we played a midfield trio, we would need to use one of Fellaini, Carrick or Pereira as replacement more often. The drop in quality is much wider in this case and the team performance will suffer for it.

In a 4-3-3 vs 4-2-3-1, the wingers are not freed of defensive responsibility, as they are still required to track the opposition fullbacks. The 4-3-3 simply gives a numerical advantage in central midfield.

Against weaker opposition the wingers have less defensive duties and thus the argument for needing higher work rate wingers becomes moot. What is more valuable is an extra AM to add creativity and goal threat. In a 4-3-3, the attacking trio bear the burden of breaking down the opposition and scoring goals. We currently dont have that kind of quality upfront and an additional attacker would go a long way in making us more potent. We already have Mata who can play as a #10, and Mkhi can also play there if needed. As wingers, none of our current players present the kind of attacking threat needed to make the 4-3-3 successful.

Every formation has its strengths and weaknesses. Saying one formation is unbalanced, simply better than another, obsolete and/or is dying is a silly notion in my opinion. There is very little that is new in football formation and the more important factor is the suitability of the formation to the players available and the quality of execution. Chelsea were successful cos the system was suited to the players and the philosophy of the coach.

A key element to the success of Chelsea last season was the existence of Hazard, who for most teams can not be limited 1v1. The need to help against Hazard is what starts the tilt in opposition defence and which seems to give chelsea an extra man in attack. When Herrera was successful in taking out Hazard, the system was showed its frailties.

If personnel are of similar quality, a 3-4-3 is actually weak against the 4-2-3-1 on paper. In central midfield, its 2v2 which can be called even. On the flanks, you have 2 wingbacks going against two wingers, with the battle more likely to be fought in the wingbacks half. On one end of the pitch you have 3 attackers going against 4 defenders and while they can attack the channels, a good defence would know to shift accordingly. On the other side you also have 2 attackers (CF+AM) going against 3 CBs, which on paper should favor the defence, but the issue is that the AM can choose where he joins the attack to create an overload. Now if a wingback wins his duel and joins the attack, the defence still has 4 defenders to match up, but if the winger wins the duel the AM can join the attack on that side to create more overload. Of course in reality, there will nbe back and forth with wins and losses on both sides.

In a 4-3-3 vs 3-4-3, the former has a numerical superiority in central midfield but, given that it is 3v3 at the other end, a dynamic CM is required to exploit the advantage and join the attack.

<might be some typos - am too lazy to review>
 
Excellent news if true. He is the most quality player we have been linked with and have a very good chance of getting this transfer window.
 
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bleacherreport.com/articles/2717866-real-madrid-transfer-news-latest-rumours-on-james-rodriguez-and-gareth-bale

Utd bound according to Spanish reports and personal terms all agreed but Real being stubborn about £61m asking price.

Excellent news if true. He is the most quality player we have been linked with this transfer window.

By Spanish reports, he means report (singular). That too, being Daily Star. Nothing to see there.
 
James Rodriguez – continuing to be the most overrated player since the summer of 2014, when he performed well in the grand sum of five (5! WOW!) matches and suddenly became a superstar. Except he never was and never will be. He just had one (1!) good tournament.

Another "modern" 10 (lol, what a joke of an insult to the role) who increases the already overloaded pool of one-dimensional attacking midfielders who aren't comfortable playing as traditional midfielders or wingers.

Shamez is the epitome of them and furthermore also the perfect example of a hype gone bad.

Awaiting upset fan bhoys of Shamez to defend him.
 
James Rodriguez – continuing to be the most overrated player since the summer of 2014, when he performed well in the grand sum of five (5! WOW!) matches and suddenly became a superstar. Except he never was and never will be. He just had one (1!) good tournament.

Another "modern" 10 (lol, what a joke of an insult to the role) who increases the already overloaded pool of one-dimensional attacking midfielders who aren't comfortable playing as traditional midfielders or wingers.

Shamez is the epitome of them and furthermore also the perfect example of a hype gone bad.

Awaiting upset fan bhoys of Shamez to defend him.

How did you get promoted?
 
How did you get promoted?

Great and insightful reply of substance.

Is this how all of your five thousand three hundred and ninety nine (5,399) posts in less than two years have taken shape?
 
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Great and insightful reply of substance.

Is this how all of your five thousand three hundred and ninety nine (5,399) posts in less than two years have taken shape?

No less of a reply than what you deserved tbh. Completely ignored his very good first season at Real and decent return this year despite being a bit part player. I'd trust the knowledgeable Real supporters on the caf about an evaluation on James over you, who drew lazy conclusions from a World Cup to just claim he's been poor since.
 
No less of a reply than what you deserved tbh. Completely ignored his very good first season at Real and decent return this year despite being a bit part player. I'd trust the knowledgeable Real supporters on the caf about an evaluation on James over you, who drew lazy conclusions from a World Cup to just claim he's been poor since.

What I deserve? :lol: This business of being honest and all… getting upset and replying accordingly – on a personal level, drawing lazy conclusions from one post.

A very good first season at Real and a decent return… this year? What is that, half of a season? So, in total he's had one very good season and half of a decent one.

Regardless, Shamez is still massively overrated and the biggest issue is what he represents in our sport – too much hype for far too little, along with gullible fans who swallow the bait.

Hopefully, he's the last of his kind, which of course won't be the case.
 
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