There's 2 yrears difference in age, and James has no experience of this league while Mkhi has now had a season to acclimatize, and unlike James he actually works hard for the team, I don't see how paying £50M for more of the same makes any sense.
James Rodriguez | joins Bayern Munich | 2 year loan
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There's 2 yrears difference in age, and James has no experience of this league while Mkhi has now had a season to acclimatize, and unlike James he actually works hard for the team, I don't see how paying £50M for more of the same makes any sense.
You also have too consider the competition.
A 4-2-3-1 is a formation that Jose has been largely forced to abandon against the better sides in the league.
None of current midfielders function better in a 2.
This has the hallmarks of the mistakes LVG did in the Summer of 2015.
Instead of building on the season, he tried to force his favoured formation to his squad and it failed badly.
If our midfield is going to be Herrera and Pogba 2 with James just ahead, teams will walk right through us.
Hope we don't him. Will be just another case of Di Maria.
I'm a little underwhelmed with his potential arrival. But... I do trust Jose's judgments on players. None of us really know how Jose is looking to set up next year, so a bit pointless debating where James fits in. Let's wait and see in America, for that.
Maybe he could play as an 8 in a 4-1-4-1. James playing as a 10 would cause too many problems defensively.
ST
Rashford - Pogba - James - Mkhi
Herrera
Rashford - Pogba - James - Mkhi
Herrera
I think James workrate will surprise a few. Its quite good. Probably why Jose likes him.
Jose doesnt seem to give a toss about width from his forwards. At Chelsea Hazard was cutting inside almost every time he got the ball and Willian was basically a wingback. At Madrid he often used Ozil on the wing as a player that cuts in and creates (that was his way of accomodating Ronaldo). Di Maria is also another creative player that Jose used on the wings. At inter he used Eto and Stankovic who arent even wide players.
The James signing makes sense; he is a no.10 that can play on the wings by cutting inside. He has the correct profile.
Is he defensively astute for an 8?
Especially in a Mourinho team.
My ideal formation would have Pogba and Herrera as the 2 midfielders with a CdM behind them.
Herrera as the box to box and Pogba as the creator. Pogba has shown that he has a brilliant passing range and creates chances galore. Our players prefer to miss them though.
4231?If Jose wants to play 4-2-3-1, he'll fit us. All these teams don't play with such formation.
Playing him as a wing is a waste of space imo. Jose wants a classic number 10 to play his favorite formation and James can fill it.
I think all this pessimism we have will make this deal looks great afterwards. Most failed deals for us was deals fans very optimistic about except Pogba I think. let's try something different then
Ask yourselves, can pogba play in a 2 man midfeild ? Offensive wise too deep , defensive wise he's not good enough positionally. Secondly he and Herrera are not a great midfeild pairing so we won't win the midfeild battle, becnhing Herrera after such a season is not practical and right, Martial has struggled on the wing so often and it won't change next season too, this Philosophy does not suit his strengths , mkh constantly cuts in in the space of a No 10 he ain't an out and out wide player who plays like one , and he's right footed so he won't score much goals from there. Rashford has to play , but he's just 19 and can't take all the goal scoring weight on his shoulders so a single striker system puts him on the bench or the wing again and puts martial on the bench. Also James is not a big goal scorer in every game.
4231 won't get the best out of our midfeild and wings just to accommodate James. We have fellani who is also pretty bad in a two man midfeild so how do we make use of him? Carrick has lost the legs so he's just useful to sit above the defense, and a 2 man midfeild is total waste when it comes to big games against top sides because our midfeild gets dominated in it against teams who at attacking football and control the ball as well.
The system does not choose the players niter the players choose the system , the approach is always somewhere in between suiting the strength of all the players in a system rather than one or two.
With these set of players, a 4231 is not fisible. A no 10 does not suit us. If in some games we need a no 10 tactically we would have enough options in mkh Mata or griezman if we get him to play there .
So Pogba should play all positions then?
Can people please stop repeating this?
Di Maria didn't want to come here and didn't want to leave.
James looks to want to leave and actually come here.
It's nowhere near the same situation.
He does not have the work rate , energy , acceleration, work horse body to play on the wing in this league specially under Mourinho. James can not become a robben or a Sanchez on the wing.
But we don't know what kind of squad Jose is building. Maybe Jose plays Fabinho beside Pogba, maybe he's after Dier so we can play a back 3?
A lot of people are judging this signing on what they want it to be instead of sitting back and analysing it on what it can mean and Jose's plans stemming from it.
James as inside left is my guess but that's based on Griezmanns potential arrival.
We have a fantastic away record up until Swansea at home so maybe he wants footballing brains to break down teams at OT when teams sit so far back that pace is negated?
When will you come to accept reality that with or without James, the team will play 4-2-3-1 and Pogba will be in midfield. We are not switching to 4-2-3-1 t accomodate James but looking for players to fit in the formation. This is what Mourinho had in mind when he asked for Pogba and Mkhi last summer. We will get a DM and a CAM/#10 this summer. This is what Mourinho likes, this is what Mourinho does. The earlier you accept this reality, the faster you can come to terms with it and save yourself some discomfort.
If we go with 4-2-3-1 we won't go with Pogba and Herrera. We'll also buy another DMF to partner Pogba while Herrera will be used in games when Jose wants to go some defensive with 4-3-3.
If we bring both James and Griezmann with a new DMf, Griezmann wil be the RW, cutting inside to the midfield and leaving Valencia to roam the right flank ( we're doing this all season with whoever played on the right ) and Rashford will be up front if we don't buy a new striker.
The problem will be in Pogba, but he's young and can learn to play in 2 men midfield, especially with a proper DMF behind him because Herrera with all his great performance isn't a proper DMF by nature.
No he doesn't.
They want get rid of him and have benched him for most of the last two seasons to achieve that. He's said many times that he doesn't want to leave Madrid.
The same posters would have turned down Higuain, Fabinho, Sanchez and Ozil by their logic
Why is everyone moaning about this Silva kid? Yea he's having a great season but could just be a one hit wonder. Plus no way is Monaco going to sell and if they do, they would milk us dry. James would be great for us imo good dribbler, heck of a shot and great passing ability, just the kind of lethal finisher we lack. Just hope his arrival dosen't have any affect on the Griezmann transfer.
Pogba is a better creator , goal scorer and assist maker than James he just needs to be having a defensive partner behind him to make him a beast in the midfeild.
Even if we play a 4312 diAmond pogba and mkh can play as LCM and RCM or 2 attacking midfeilders in a 4141 . Our concern are the wings and not attacking midfeild.
We just spent 89 m on pogba we have to build a team around him and get the best out of him.
Is he being linked to anyone else besides us?
I remember many people wanted Robben before he went to Munich.
It's not what I want it to be.
I just don't think 2 men midfield works for most of what we have.
I remember the days even under Sir Alex when teams walked through our midfield and it scares me.
We won't be able to get away with it in bigger games unless we effectively shut shop like we do now. I'm not a big fan of that tactic.
Yea thats quiet stupid logic, just because Di Maria didn't work out dosen't mean James will flop too. Reckon its a ego thing, people dont want to accept the fact that even Real's bench fodder would waltz into our first team.
That might not have been such a bad decision .
You could run a 4231 if you get a DM, but then you'd need to make this work.
-----Herrera--Kante2.0----
James----xxx/Pog----xxx/Pog
James does a good job playing wide in the right, and the lack of a pure winger there could be covered by Valencia, he has the engine to do that, double DM would help balance the hole he creates going up.
Then, you need to cover the other 2 positions, you can go with Mkhi/Mata as the 10 and Pogba playing on the left (like he did with Juve, and not asking too much from him defensively), Pogba as the 10 and Mkhi/Martial wide at the left. You basically have James, Pogba, Mata, Martial, Lingard, Rashford and Mkhi to cover those 3 spots, and all of them can cover at least 2 of the 3 AM positions.
Problem is, you're shoehorning 2 world class players (James and Pogba) in a formation where you really don't know if they will work together or will deliver their 100% as they get moved across the field. United need a couple of key signings at CB, DM, ¿LW?, and Striker to round the team up before starting playing Real Madrid Manager loading the squad with elite levels and inventing ways to make them play in the same starting 11 to keep them happy
He is not forced to abandon, but a consicous decision on his part and willingness to change his formation for games he feels needed. Its no different from asking Herrera (who is not a full back) to man mark hazard.
He has won several titles using 4-2-3-1 in >80% of his games and 4-3-3 when needed. Tuchel uses the same two formations at Dortmund. Its no different from Allegri changing his formation depending on the oppositions. Some coaches are rigid, some are more flexible and some are in between. It has less bearing on the outcome of games e.g. Allegri twinkers a lot and Juve have good chance of winning the treble.
Most manager, when given the opportunity, look to assemble a squad that fits their philosophy. Pep loaned out Hart just so he could get a new GK who is meant to be better with his feet.
The moment Jose was hired, United were on a hard course for a 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 setup. The only question left was which player would be in it.
That not going to happen cos Herrera will be on the bench for most of next season. He will play those games where we are in a 4-3-3, and in place of the new DM and/or Pogba when they are absent.
The way I try to understand it is Jose wanting total squad adaptability. All of these players will be bought with the entire season in mind, not any given 11 that starts a game.
That way when we rest Griezmann (hopefully ) we can move James inside and not change our style too much.
All I know is there's a style that legitimately stiffles us. That has to be sorted as top prioity. Its not as if we're losing game after game or conceding goal after goal. We have a strong enough base to build from
This is my problem exactly. Get the best out of Pogba instead.
As for Kante 2, where can we find him?
I think Real got much better when they stopped trying to shoehorn all their big name players like James in the team and set up a functional midfield instead.
Mourinho is the manager, we will be playing 4-2-3-1 as base and 4-3-3 as secondary. Discussing other formations is pointless. You need a CAM for a 4-2-3-1 and James is a better fit than Pogba
If you want a manager that is innovative with formations, you hire Allegri or even Ancelotti
And will you except the reality that this will and can never make us title contdnders, without fixing the wing problem we won't win the title with martial mkh Mata and lingard.
Individual signings does not make a title winning team, a team with perfect balance does , and a 4231 is unbalanced with these set of players.
He won't win the title or the cl in a unbalanced 4231.
I don't think we are getting both Griezzmann and James.
Especially as we need to fill up so many other positions too.
Mourinho has the habit of running his players into the ground. He had Hazard turned into a work horse in the season they won the league together. If James comes to us, he can play as a no.10 or as a wide player that cuts inside and turns into a no.10 aka Ozil at Madrid. Im not particularly keen on James coming to us, but its something Mourinho has done before.
Griezman on the wing ? And rashford main striker for cl and PL? Not happening.
Inter 4-2-3-1 = treble
Real Madrid 4-2-3-1 = la liga + 3x CL semis
Chelsea 4-2-3-1 = EPL
All these were achieved with lesser players than he is potentially assembling at United, but in your opinion it can never make us title contenders - where is your proof?
Couldnt agree more. We seem to have been playing number 9s and 10s on the flanks for a good few years now and players out of position in other areas too.
As good as it is to be linked with the likes of Rodriguez and Griezmann at the moment, as both are world class talents, neither excite me as much as they should do, in the current formation anyway
He won't be a strict wing. We haven't been playing with a strict RW through the whole season. Mata, Mikhi or Lingard always leaves the right flank and cuts inside to the midfield to free the space for Valencia to go back and forth the whole right flank. Griezmann on paper will be the RW, on the field not really. He can work well with this instructions if we aren't willing to play him as a striker.
Griezman can play a no 10 as a second striker and Mourinho can get a physical striker who's good aerially too.
Mourinho has bought pogba for a word record fee and putting him in a 4231 makes no sense without getting to use his offensive strengths near the box.
I was more pointing to the fact that he will cost an astronomical sum and probably won't be able to fit in to our system. Also, he is being forced out because there is no room for him at Madrid.
OT: Also for posters who are comparing him to Ozil. James Rodriguez is not on the same level of creativity and guile as Ozil.
In what formation is Griezman an SS and Pogba in your required 3-man midfield?
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