Just absolutely no. No more Real cast offs that are surplus to requirements....We want proven WC players that are starters in their respective teams. Yep, hard to get them but that's for good reason.
James Rodriguez | joins Bayern Munich | 2 year loan
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Griezmann might not want to come here and Silva will have other suitors as well so it might not be so straightforward as us having the pick of the bunch and choosing James over the other two. Still, I'd agree that James shouldn't even be our plan C in that case. Would rather stick with Mata/Miki for the CAM/RW spots and focus our resources on other needs and maybe bring in a cheap-ish young prospect to add cover and competition.
The definition is evolving these days but in the traditional sense of it, a 'Number 10' is your playmaker. The core of your attacking wheel. The main link from midfield to attack. Typically, he can play as a central midfielder, attacking midfielder, or as part of the striking cast. He creates chances, he finds spaces, he finds the main strikers. He is a good dribbler - a baller, a set piece specialist; his football IQ is high and he scores pretty well. He is your Pele, Maradona, Zico, Messi, Deco, Sneijder or Bergkamp.
Jose has used Mikhi, Mata, Rooney and Lingard as number 10s this season. One problem is that we have not had one of them own the shirt neither has any of them been good enough on a consistent basis ('consistent' being the key word).
Jose does like traditional number 10s in his squads. He has said it a few times and his comments about Mata and Oscar at Chelsea are well documented. He also used Fabregas as a 10 a number of times. At Inter, buying Wesley Sneijder won him the treble. At Porto he had Deco. At Madrid, he did everything to buy Ozil.
One suspects that with what Jose has seen this season, he'll be convinced he needs to buy a number 10.
I am unsure about Rodriguez - definitely some talent in there but does he really "want it" enough?
The one advantage we do have here is that Jose will know the player well, both with respect to his technical ability and his mentality. If Jose does decide to move for him we can (probably) rest assured that we needn't worry since Jose clearly wont tolerate passengers or ego's
The one advantage we do have here is that Jose will know the player well, both with respect to his technical ability and his mentality. If Jose does decide to move for him we can (probably) rest assured that we needn't worry since Jose clearly wont tolerate passengers or ego's
Thanks for the explanation. Personally, I prefer (and more used to) talking about players in terms of position in a formation and role in the scheme employed.
It is interesting that the example of players you listed are all different kind of players, but I think i do get what you mean. If I have understood you correctly, then we currently do not have a genuine and quality number 10, with Mata probably being the best of the lot in such a role. Still, I dont see him as having the quality to stamp his authority on a game or grab it by the scruff of the neck on a weekly basis.
Football is a game of quality before quantity and (I agree that) none of the current players can deliver what is needed on a consistent basis. James and Ozil are two options that would fit the bill but Griezmann wouldn't imo. It will be interesting to see who arrives for that role in the summer.
You're rate mate.
I like it when people say things as they are. Mata is a pretty nice lad and he's a good player but the truth is what you wrote, he can't stamp his authority on a game or grab it by the scruff of the neck on a weekly basis.
I liked the Ozil at Madrid but the current Ozil? Nah.
You are also right about Griezmann. He is a bit more tricky to define as he can play well accross the attacking front line. I wouldn't pin him down as a number 10.
My preferences for the number 10 role (considering rumours linked to us) are in the following order:
1. Bernado Silva
2. James Rodriguez
3. Mikhitaryan
5. Ozil
6. Mata
I feel like, although we've always had players with the number 10 on their backs in England, it's only recently that we've started to referring to the position of a number 10. Go back 15 or 20 years and we all talked about having a big man up front, and the 10 was the small player running off him, think Defoe, Owen. Then about 10 years ago we started referring to them as playing 'in the hole' in the way Zola used to, and I feel like it's only the last few seasons we've referred to these players as number 10s. Why do we not say 'playing in the hole' any longer? And don't be rude.
The Ozil (and most players) at Arsenal is a reflection of Arsene Wenger and not the player. While he has always had a lackadaisical attitude about his game, he does work hard, but only to the extent that the coach demands of him. Also, the seemingly lack of ambition at Arsenal as a whole cant but affect a player. Even small teams have lofty ambitions for their size and but at Arsenal its just securing 4th place.
I actually think Ozil is the best option of the lot. Beyond his abilities, he has fully matured, worked with Mourinho before, and, has played in the EPL for a few seasons. He can basically hit the ground running. The other alternatives would be bigger gambles. As to the old vs current Ozil, I firmly believe that in football: form is temporary but class is permanent. Ozil has the class.
I actually think Ozil is the best option of the lot. Beyond his abilities, he has fully matured, worked with Mourinho before, and, has played in the EPL for a few seasons. He can basically hit the ground running. The other alternatives would be bigger gambles. As to the old vs current Ozil, I firmly believe that in football: form is temporary but class is permanent. Ozil has the class.
Did Mourinho not have a habit of subbing Ozil off after about 65/70 minutes in their Real days ? Sure I read that somewhere, although he also praised him and called him "king of the assists".
Early in his first season, he was often fatigued, but later subs were more of the usual e.g. to bring on a more defensive player to close out the game or when the game was clearly won. He would have averaged about 80mins in games he started under Mourinho.
Some people have said in this thread that buying James would mean that Griezmann won't come. I have doubts if it's realistic for United to get both, but I don't think they have to be mutually exclusive per se.
I think it may be possible to play both in a winger-less 4-4-2 with two mobile CAMs as AM/winger hybrids. Atletico (Griezmann) and France (Pogba, Griezmann) frequently play in a similar formation, and in 14/15 James had his best time (imo) at Real in this role.
Something like this:
-----------------CF
-----------------------Griezmann
-----James-----------------------Mkhi
-----------Pogba
-----------------------Herrera
It needs good offensive full backs to help providing width, also good coordination and hard work from the offensive players to strengthen the center and support the midfield two. James and Mkhi can be pretty active defensively, Griezmann is working a lot against the ball. So I think it might be theoretically possible.
One counter argument may be that both teams mentioned above usually rely on at least one CM in front of the DMs (Sissoko, Koke/Saul). But Lucien Favre even played a similar formation with two true wingers at Gladbach, so I guess there's room for variation.
I think it may be possible to play both in a winger-less 4-4-2 with two mobile CAMs as AM/winger hybrids. Atletico (Griezmann) and France (Pogba, Griezmann) frequently play in a similar formation, and in 14/15 James had his best time (imo) at Real in this role.
Something like this:
-----------------CF
-----------------------Griezmann
-----James-----------------------Mkhi
-----------Pogba
-----------------------Herrera
It needs good offensive full backs to help providing width, also good coordination and hard work from the offensive players to strengthen the center and support the midfield two. James and Mkhi can be pretty active defensively, Griezmann is working a lot against the ball. So I think it might be theoretically possible.
One counter argument may be that both teams mentioned above usually rely on at least one CM in front of the DMs (Sissoko, Koke/Saul). But Lucien Favre even played a similar formation with two true wingers at Gladbach, so I guess there's room for variation.
I think this kind of mentality will hold us back. Irrespective of whether or not you want wingers, we should be able to adapt our team's structure, and Jose shouldn't be told how to build his own team. If he doesn't want a certain type of player he shouldn't have to use them just because Ferguson and Busby saw success in the past with them.
He's 26 in the summer, 3 years into his contract. He either decides this is the summer to move on or stay and fight for his place in the team. If he leaves I wouldn't be keen on him playing for another PL team against us as he'd improve the teams around us if he hits top form. Will be probably go to Italy. The league could suit him well (not based on anything particularly).
Accomodating Griezmann and two out-and-out wingers will not be that easy. I know he can play at CF, as a CAM and also on the wing himself, but I think his best role is as a second striker where he can do a little bit of everything. I don't think it's a coincidence that both of his teams often play in some kind of narrow 4-4-2.
Also, James and Mkhitaryan would of course shift to the wing a lot in such a system, as would Griezmann. It's just that there aren't dedicated specialists for that role.
I don't fancy James as a winger or a false winger. He's not quick enough to make runs and dribble or take on a man. If there's any winger out there, I would go for Dembele. If not, I would just get Griezmann, Isco & Morata for our attack. James is very limited in which position he can perform and we don't need him.
Fair enough, but as I said I think he was extremely good (and agile) in 14/15 when he played a similar role for some time. I also don't want to sell James to anyone here, it was just a system which I thought could work.
Isco (not that he'd be available) is pretty much the same position-wise as James, so in my eyes the question would remain how he and Griezmann + a CF should play together.
the only actually wingers we have are currently playing full back.
Good post, so Griezmann whilst he's a shadow striker that scores more than produces, he would slot into the space the 10 occupies but a little higher up, I think our issue is playing number 10s on the wing which really affects our width and makes us predictable, which is why I enjoy Lingard playing since he can play wide and get in behind even though he was a number 10 too.
If we don't get Griezmann and play a 4231 then I'd be all up for rodriguez joining he can be unplayable at times. If we want to stick to a 433 or 352/442 then I'd be a lot more happier investing in a midfielder like Casemiro or Fabhino otherwise we are just going to be stacked for number 10s but without a spot to play them in. Mata, Mkhitaryan, Lingard, Rooney all slot into the 10 role and one could argue they're better there, which I personally think they are as opposed to out wide.
Mourinho prefers inverted wingers who cut in towards goal, with one side being more of a striker and the other more of a midfielder. The CAM plays behind the CF and provides most of the creativity. The width is mainly provided by the full backs but supplemented by the attacking midfielders.
Given recent improvements by Rashford and Martial, and the needed CB reinforcement due to Rojo injury, Griezmann is looking less and less likely at his price tag. What I expect next season would be
-----------------------CF---------------------------
-----Rashford---------------------------------------
--------------------CAM--------------Mikhi---------
--------------Pogba---------------------------------
-------------------------DM-------------------------
-LB-----------CB--------------Bailly------Valencia
The CAM would be Ozil/James/Silva or similar while the CF would be Morata/Belotti/Lukaku/Mandzukic/Icardi. The DM is the position I have the least idea on while the quality CBs in the market are quite limited.
The way both Rashford and Martial were bundled over by Kompany shows they are not ready to be that lone striker up front and Griezmann is no better (probably worse) in that regard. If the frenchman arrives, it would be at the expense of Mkhi in the starting line-up and potentially Mata in the squad. I dont think there is enough justification for it.
Earlier Griezmann would have been an upgrade on Martial but the loss of Zlatan has given Martial the opportunity to string together some decent performances that will likely earn him one more season to convince Mourinho.
Given recent improvements by Rashford and Martial, and the needed CB reinforcement due to Rojo injury, Griezmann is looking less and less likely at his price tag. What I expect next season would be
-----------------------CF---------------------------
-----Rashford---------------------------------------
--------------------CAM--------------Mikhi---------
--------------Pogba---------------------------------
-------------------------DM-------------------------
-LB-----------CB--------------Bailly------Valencia
The CAM would be Ozil/James/Silva or similar while the CF would be Morata/Belotti/Lukaku/Mandzukic/Icardi. The DM is the position I have the least idea on while the quality CBs in the market are quite limited.
The way both Rashford and Martial were bundled over by Kompany shows they are not ready to be that lone striker up front and Griezmann is no better (probably worse) in that regard. If the frenchman arrives, it would be at the expense of Mkhi in the starting line-up and potentially Mata in the squad. I dont think there is enough justification for it.
Earlier Griezmann would have been an upgrade on Martial but the loss of Zlatan has given Martial the opportunity to string together some decent performances that will likely earn him one more season to convince Mourinho.
If we played a 4-3-3,
Rashford/ Morata/ Griezmann (ST)
Martial/ Lingard/ Isco (LW)
Mkhitaryan/ Griezmann (RW)
Pogba/Isco (LCM)
Isco/ Herrera/ Periera (RCM)
Fabinho/ Herrera/ Bakayoko/ Carrick (DM)
Shaw (LB)
Valencia (RB)
Bailly/ Blind (CB)
Rojo/ Blind (CB)
De Gea/ New GK
An unmotivated and overpaid South American diva, that is sitting for Real on the bench most of the time and if not is on the treatment table or gets a run out against cannon fodder? No thanks. The only position he can play is the number 10 or behind the striker. Isnt the most hard working player without the ball either. Plus his price and wages! Are you mad? Never seen such a huge mismatch with club/league/country and manager.
What would your preferred first 11 look like? (Only as a rough formation.)
Yes Barcelona must be cannon fodder
Yes Barcelona must be cannon fodder
He was sitting on the bench for the majority of the game and only came on when they needed a goal. When was his las start against a good side?
Yes he came off the bench and got the equalizer in less than 5min on the pitch. He doesnt start games cos of the politics at real that says an injured bale must start ahead of everyone else.
It would have been quicker to type 'yes'.
Watch some football occasionally. It reduces the likelihood of embarrassing yourself by writing things entirely opposite to the truth.
Glad we disagree. 90% of my post is on point, but you can believe in the wholy St. James for all you like, i stay in the reality.
What you wrote was totally inaccurate and showed you were clueless about the ability, character and situation of the player in question.
Which situation? Which character? Stop embarrassing yourself, you are one of the worst posters in the last few weeks on here
That would be you who has absolutely no clue what kind of player James is.
Not saying we need or should go for him by any means but you're completely off base and don't have a clue.
I wish PSG would come in for Hamez so we stop getting linked with him.
Someone tell me the amazing player i am missing? Sure he has a good left foot and can take a freekick/cross, but 50m+ and huge wages for that? You are all mad. A game where he starts and can cement a place for the rest of the season and he made his best to feck up all the attacks. When players like Bernardo Silva and Griezmann at the top of their game are available that would like to play for us, you dont go for James Rodriguez, who didnt make it at Real, unless you want to sell shirts in South America.
I would be very underwhelmed if we settled for James with the players supposedly available this summer. Good thing it's all just whispers and we're most likely not interested.
A very good player but he's only an option I'd want us to go for if our first options fell through.
Tbh, don't watch enough La Liga to give a clear assessment of him (and would like to see the Real fans on here give their opinions)..... if we are interested, I just hope we negotiate hard and don't get caught up in a swap for De Gea.
Real make me laugh when they want to get rid of a player... suddenly, they're world class and they'd be allowed to go begrudgingly. A player who hasn't played half the La Liga games this season (and loads of them were as subs) isn't worth De Gea.
Real make me laugh when they want to get rid of a player... suddenly, they're world class and they'd be allowed to go begrudgingly. A player who hasn't played half the La Liga games this season (and loads of them were as subs) isn't worth De Gea.
When do you reckon Sneijder, Gaitan & Garay will be arriving?
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He only wants to sign for us because Real want shut of hiim , and we would pay him the highest wages. Dont think Mourinho will sign him anyway. not what we need at the moment.
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