James Rodriguez| Is considering his options

Devil may care said:
The thing with James is that he's a #10 or at a push an AM, he's not a winger and yet he'd likely have to play there if we bought him due to fecking Rooney.
Click to expand...

his crossings at least are better than anything our wide player can produce.

but yeah, would be so stupid to buy him and play him wide, when he is truly world class playing as a 10, pulling the strings, and banging those screamers from the edge of the area.

Bring him home Jose!
 
My only concern about James (besides his attitude) is that we will be forced to play 4231. So, it also depends on which formation we want to see next summer.

If we want to play 433, where does James fit?
 
Last edited:
Fer said:
My only concern about James (besides his attitude) is that we will be forced to play 4231. So, it also depends on which formation we want to see next summer.

If we want to play 433, where does James fit?
Click to expand...

James BFS Herrara

Could easily work in a 3.
 
Fer said:
My only concern about James (besides his attitude) is that we will be forced to play 4231. So, it also depends on which formation we want to see next summer.

If we want to play 433, where does James fit?
Click to expand...

Whats wrong with 4231? For a start, isn't that Jose preferred formation
 
Fer said:
My only concern about James (besides his attitude) is that we will be forced to play 4231. So, it also depends on which formation we want to see next summer.

If we want to play 433, where does James fit?
Click to expand...
The attacking most of the midfield 3. Di Maria role for Real Madrid.
 
We don't have a South American Adidas poster boy in the squad...

Would prefer Isco if it were a straight choice however.
 
I too prefer Isco and by all accounts, his attitude is better too.

Who do you think is better @Vato, James or Isco?
 
amolbhatia50k said:
The attacking most of the midfield 3. Di Maria role for Real Madrid.
Click to expand...
He doesn't have the work rate of Di Maria.

The best way to utilise James is in a free role as a #10 in a 4-2-3-1 formation or something similar. In games against weaker opposition who are going to sit back and invite attacks, the 4-3-3 may work, with 2 attacking orientated midfielders.

The main reason Real are getting rid, apart from the guy's reportedly bad attitude, is that they play a 4-3-3, in which James doesn't fit.
 
Dont get the love for Isco here, he's a good and elegant player, not a team player. His play is quite pointless and ineffective, it's fun to watch him glide past 2 midfielders and stuff, but what he does next is mostly wrong and ineffective.
 
unitedbhoy said:
He doesn't have the work rate of Di Maria.

The best way to utilise James is in a free role as a #10 in a 4-2-3-1 formation or something similar. In games against weaker opposition who are going to sit back and invite attacks, the 4-3-3 may work, with 2 attacking orientated midfielders.

The main reason Real are getting rid, apart from the guy's reportedly bad attitude, is that they play a 4-3-3, in which James doesn't fit.
Click to expand...
Correct.

James is more an attacker than a midfielder so the 433 I proposed would virtually operate like a 4231 anyway.

But I don't see how it would matter? We have to play the best team we can and get the best players we can for that team.

Why would we need to play a 433 when we can play better with a 4231? Why play a 433 when you don't have three quality midfielders to even pull it off?

I see the difference between the two formations as being pretty small. All a 4231 changes is one midfielder having slightly less responsibilities and more licence in the final third. If you are good enough on the ball and one (at least) of your wide players is responsible enough, it should work well.
 
Sammyjunn said:
Dont get the love for Isco here, he's a good and elegant player, not a team player. His play is quite pointless and ineffective, it's fun to watch him glide past 2 midfielders and stuff, but what he does next is mostly wrong and ineffective.
Click to expand...
He's much more of a team player than James.

Isco - better close control and manipulation of the ball in tight spaces. Higher work rate. More of a midfielder than an attacker. More Iniesta than Mata/Gotze.
James - better attacking and match winning qualities. Lower work rate. More of an attacker than a midfielder. More Mata/Gotze than Iniesta.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Correct.

James is more an attacker than a midfielder so the 433 I proposed would virtually operate like a 4231 anyway.

But I don't see how it would matter? We have to play the best team we can and get the best players we can for that team.

Why would we need to play a 433 when we can play better with a 4231? Why play a 433 when you don't have three quality midfielders to even pull it off?

I see the difference between the two formations as being pretty small. All a 4231 changes is one midfielder having slightly less responsibilities and more licence in the final third. If you are good enough on the ball and one (at least) of your wide players is responsible enough, it should work well.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. However the main difference between the formations, if the team has the players to execute it at the highest level, is the dynamism.

The only thing that makes the formation different is the players that are on the pitch.

The 4-2-3-1 is more linear in the fact that it will most likely include 2 defensive players in midfield, who's main role is to protect the centre halfs and give the attacking 4 freedom to do their thing.

The 4-3-3 will most likely have that anchor man, a box to box with extremely high work rate and the ability to link defensive into attack, and then the attacking creative player. I think the box to box player makes this formation far more dynamic due to the linking quality. The top teams who play 4-3-3 tend to have a #10 who can also perform this role adequately as well so the #8 and #10 can switch roles whenever the play suits - which adds another level of dynamism to the tactic.

The main player who makes the 4-3-3 really successful is the #8 imo. Herrera could be this player, but we'd need to see a lot more his first season's form that this season's. Kante is the man if he is attainable.

If we were to sign James, then his participation in a 4-3-3 would decrease the potential dynamism. (sorry to keep using this word - just can't think of another one for it!)

Like I mentioned before, James would be a good option for us in about 50% of games we play in a season, but don't think he would have the bite or teamwork that we require in that role at this moment in time in the tougher matches.
 
unitedbhoy said:
Absolutely. However the main difference between the formations, if the team has the players to execute it at the highest level, is the dynamism.

The only thing that makes the formation different is the players that are on the pitch.

The 4-2-3-1 is more linear in the fact that it will most likely include 2 defensive players in midfield, who's main role is to protect the centre halfs and give the attacking 4 freedom to do their thing.

The 4-3-3 will most likely have that anchor man, a box to box with extremely high work rate and the ability to link defensive into attack, and then the attacking creative player. I think the box to box player makes this formation far more dynamic due to the linking quality. The top teams who play 4-3-3 tend to have a #10 who can also perform this role adequately as well so the #8 and #10 can switch roles whenever the play suits - which adds another level of dynamism to the tactic.

The main player who makes the 4-3-3 really successful is the #8 imo. Herrera could be this player, but we'd need to see a lot more his first season's form that this season's. Kante is the man if he is attainable.

If we were to sign James, then his participation in a 4-3-3 would decrease the potential dynamism. (sorry to keep using this word - just can't think of another one for it!)

Like I mentioned before, James would be a good option for us in about 50% of games we play in a season, but don't think he would have the bite or teamwork that we require in that role at this moment in time in the tougher matches.
Click to expand...

Dortmund under klopp or Bayern under Heynckes were probably the most dynamic teams of the last 10 years and they mainly played in 4231, in theory the 4231 is perfectly dynamic and you don't need to put two defensive midfielders, Bielsa used Herrera as a #8 in a 4231.
 
Hopefully we are not after this extremely overrated player.
 
JPRouve said:
Dortmund under klopp or Bayern under Heynckes were probably the most dynamic teams of the last 10 years and they mainly played in 4231, in theory the 4231 is perfectly dynamic and you don't need to put two defensive midfielders, Bielsa used Herrera as a #8 in a 4231.
Click to expand...
I think you may have missed a part of the point I was trying to make in my last post.

It's mainly the abilities and roles of the 2 deeper midfielders that dictate whether the formation is closer to a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3. The difference between the 2 can be negligible.

I would say Schweinsteiger (in 2013) was more of a box to box than a Fernandinho/Fernando type player
 
amolbhatia50k said:
He's much more of a team player than James.

Isco - better close control and manipulation of the ball in tight spaces. Higher work rate. More of a midfielder than an attacker. More Iniesta than Mata/Gotze.
James - better attacking and match winning qualities. Lower work rate. More of an attacker than a midfielder. More Mata/Gotze than Iniesta.
Click to expand...
What has that got to do with being a teamplayer? Isco is a player who keeps the ball way too long, slows down play with pointless dribbler, and is less effective than James. Maybe higher workrate, but if so qiite marginal, he's no Kante and James is no Memphis.
 
Sammyjunn said:
Dont get the love for Isco here, he's a good and elegant player, not a team player. His play is quite pointless and ineffective, it's fun to watch him glide past 2 midfielders and stuff, but what he does next is mostly wrong and ineffective.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Isco is extremely overrated and there must be a reason why so many managers dont see him as a regular starter. I watched him a few times and he gives the ball away an awful lot. He looks good on the ball though and that's what people like about him I guess
 
Sammyjunn said:
What has that got to do with being a teamplayer? Isco is a player who keeps the ball way too long, slows down play with pointless dribbler, and is less effective than James. Maybe higher workrate, but if so qiite marginal, he's no Kante and James is no Memphis.
Click to expand...
Only everything. Generally a "team player" is someone who works harder, links up better with others, is better in the buildup etc. rather than more individualistic play.

You tell me your definition in this context as you clearly have a different one.
 
I am very adverse to signing another player from Madrid.

James would have much more of a star factor to him, that's no doubt. His attitude would be a worry. People complain about Mata not having enough pace, I fail to see them warming to James.

Under LvG and the current system, there is no point in signing the lad. He'd be moved out the wing.
 
unitedbhoy said:
I think you may have missed a part of the point I was trying to make in my last post.

It's mainly the abilities and roles of the 2 deeper midfielders that dictate whether the formation is closer to a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3. The difference between the 2 can be negligible.

I would say Schweinsteiger (in 2013) was more of a box to box than a Fernandinho/Fernando type player
Click to expand...

I haven't missed it, I don't understand it, 4231 are played with box to box too it's not reserved to "double pivot" that's why Herrera and Javi Martinez have been partnered, Schweinsteiger and Javi Martinez/Luiz Gustavo, Gundogan and Bender/Kehl), Baraja and Albelda, Carrick and Scholes/Cleverley or even Matic and Fabregas.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Only everything. Generally a "team player" is someone who works harder, links up better with others, is better in the buildup etc. rather than more individualistic play.

You tell me your definition in this context as you clearly have a different one.
Click to expand...

Well he doesn't link up very well in reality he is Adam Lallana. Great to look at but what does he ACTUALLY do. People wish he was Iniesta but there's more chance of Herrara becoming the next Paul Scholes.
 
Mainoldo said:
Well he doesn't link up very well in reality he is Adam Lallana. Great to look at but what does he ACTUALLY do. People wish he was Iniesta but there's more chance of Herrara becoming the next Paul Scholes.
Click to expand...
And with that you just became the Adam Lallana of forum posting.

Maybe ACTUALLY for you just means goals and assists.

ACTUALLY, I do think the caf overrates Isco and underrates James, in terms of their respective abilities, but you've just gone ahead and gone to a proper extreme.

They're both really good and I'd be delighted with us signing either but only if the one we do go for is focused on delivering for us rather than his mind being elsewhere/being unprofessional.
 
JPRouve said:
I haven't missed it, I don't understand it, 4231 are played with box to box too it's not reserved to "double pivot" that's why Herrera and Javi Martinez have been partnered, Schweinsteiger and Javi Martinez/Luiz Gustavo, Gundogan and Bender/Kehl), Baraja and Albelda, Carrick and Scholes/Cleverley or even Matic and Fabregas.
Click to expand...
But in my opinion that is a 4-3-3 rather than a 4-2-3-1. In your impression, what are the differences between the 2 formations?

Like I've mentioned, the only difference I can see is the role of the 2nd midfielder.
 
PepsiCola said:
I am very adverse to signing another player from Madrid.

James would have much more of a star factor to him, that's no doubt. His attitude would be a worry. People complain about Mata not having enough pace, I fail to see them warming to James.

Under LvG and the current system, there is no point in signing the lad. He'd be moved out the wing.
Click to expand...

Are we bothered with Mata's pace or his inability to do absolutely nothing worth calling creative, whilst having no strength. James is faster than Mata and what is this bad attitude people keep talking about?
 
amolbhatia50k said:
And with that you just became the Adam Lallana of forum posting.

Maybe ACTUALLY for you just means goals and assists.

ACTUALLY, I do think the caf overrates Isco and underrates James, in terms of their respective abilities, but you've just gone ahead and gone to a proper extreme.

They're both really good and I'd be delighted with us signing either but only if the one we do go for is focused on delivering for us rather than his mind being elsewhere/being unprofessional.
Click to expand...

Rather you call me Isco ;). Explain the difference though?
 
JPRouve said:
I haven't missed it, I don't understand it, 4231 are played with box to box too it's not reserved to "double pivot" that's why Herrera and Javi Martinez have been partnered, Schweinsteiger and Javi Martinez/Luiz Gustavo, Gundogan and Bender/Kehl), Baraja and Albelda, Carrick and Scholes/Cleverley or even Matic and Fabregas.
Click to expand...
True the 4-2-3-1 allows a team to change easily between a the 4-2-3-1, the 4-3-3, the 4-5-1 and the 4-4-2 depending on the type of players you have as your 8 and 10. If you have and Schweinsteiger and Martinez combo of a few years back you can achieve this fluidity easily. I don't see much wrong with it and I think people are allowing themselves to be clouded by the fact that Van Gaal has horribly failed to utilise it well because he did not buy players of sufficient quality to fill the key areas whilst killing off the offensive thrust from the right wing by fielding Mata and Darmian there.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
And with that you just became the Adam Lallana of forum posting.

Maybe ACTUALLY for you just means goals and assists.

ACTUALLY, I do think the caf overrates Isco and underrates James, in terms of their respective abilities, but you've just gone ahead and gone to a proper extreme.

They're both really good and I'd be delighted with us signing either but only if the one we do go for is focused on delivering for us rather than his mind being elsewhere/being unprofessional.
Click to expand...
The last bit is worrying and its difficult to gauge his reaction when the likes of Cattermole are done with him.
 
itso 7 said:
The last bit is worrying and its difficult to gauge his reaction when the likes of Cattermole are done with him.
Click to expand...
If he can get near them. Nothing much you can do apart from hope we get it right in this regard. We can't actually stop buying top players.

I think it's as much about making us a great team all-round rather than hoping one or two big signings "save" us. Leaving aside bad personalities (as has been rumored with James), if our team starts playing some quality stuff and challenge on all fronts, then we shouldn't have a problem. It's when we do what we did with ADM, where his first preference was to go to PSG, and then the team was pretty mediocre in general as well, that it becomes a problem. I know we like to be idealistic and all that, but James/Isco/ADM/Robben, whoever it is, won't enjoy going from Real Madrid to a team that is a mess. Ibra will hate it as well if we have a dysfunctional team.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Only everything. Generally a "team player" is someone who works harder, links up better with others, is better in the buildup etc. rather than more individualistic play.

You tell me your definition in this context as you clearly have a different one.
Click to expand...
So per definition a midfielder is a better team player than a forward, when you follow that definition. And Isco is more individualistic than James imo, while Isco takes on more people, albeit succesfully, James is the one who passes more, creates more chances, has more key passes, more assists, with James the team is more likely to score, with their defensive stats surprisingly being quite similar.
 
unitedbhoy said:
But in my opinion that is a 4-3-3 rather than a 4-2-3-1. In your impression, what are the differences between the 2 formations?

Like I've mentioned, the only difference I can see is the role of the 2nd midfielder.
Click to expand...

Most of the time there is no difference between the formations in themselves, the 4231 is a 433 where the player that will occupy the space behind the main striker is designated while there is no designation in the 433, in the latter one of the #8 will occupy the hole depending on the situation but even then that's only theoritical.
If you look at Chelsea's 433 with Lampard, Essien and Makélélé, Lampard was clearly attacking and defending infront of his midfield partners, it was more a 4231 than a 433, at Barcelona Rakitic is the #8 that occupies the space and run the inside channels, paradoxically Iniesta is a lot more conservative in his positioning and running without the ball than Rakitic, and finally you have cases like PSG with Blanc and Real Madrid under Ancelotti where none of the #8 occupy the space behind the striker, that space is used by the striker who is instructed to drop and leave room upfront for the wide players, in that system the #8 will overload one side of the field, in the case of PSG and Real it was very often the left side with Matuidi and Di Maria running the channel., that last case is the only time where it's relevant to make a difference between a 4231 and a 433.

Now, that says nothing about the defensive organization because in reality you can't really tell, depending on the manager and the players available it could be a 4411, 442, 433, 4141 or a variant of one of them.
 
Escobar said:
Agreed. Isco is extremely overrated and there must be a reason why so many managers dont see him as a regular starter. I watched him a few times and he gives the ball away an awful lot. He looks good on the ball though and that's what people like about him I guess
Click to expand...
This, I wonder how many actually see him play instead of compilations, he loses the ball all the time, slows play down, tries to dribble his way out of everything while often a pass is the better option (especially with Real Madrid's more dynamic attack). He's still a player with brilliant qualities imo, but so ineffective and not learning from his mistakes.
 
Today's rumours from Perez Mendes AS: man utd bid €76 on James, PSG could pay over €80, Bayern also interested.
 
Not worth to spend that amount of money on him. He's really a luxurious player who's very poor defensively and often sloppy with his passes and who's now warming the bench in RM. There's a reason for that. He's good at freekicks and sometimes scores some great goals, but I'm not convinced enough with his overall play tbh. Yes, I'd probably prefer him over Mata/Lingard, but RM overprice him as feck. And we all witnessed how it went with Di Maria here, who's a better player than James.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.