James Maddison | Spurs

[FrankDrebin]

because he played for Leicester and he was shit as per Redcafe.

Yes because the CAF makes the choices.

 

[Gordon Godot]

Yes because the CAF makes the choices.

We dont seem to have a creative midfield player who is comfortable receiving the ball deep. Its certainly not Mount, it was Eriksen but his legs have clearly gone. It remains a huge gap and dont see any plan to fill it. Our main DM is also looking like his best days are gone. Very concerning given budget constraints

 

[groovyalbert]

Drifting in and around games, and being lightweight defensively, are also problems Mason Mount seems to have.

Impacts games more though. I've never really got the Mount vibe. Couldn't understand when Southgate was picking him for England over the likes of Grealish and Foden. Don't really see the plan with him now.

 

[GazTheLegend]

ITT the little drama queens come out. Based on one game we were a bit unlucky in Vs a side who were lucky with a penalty decision away from home. Bruno is twice the player Maddison is and always will be, sort yourselves out. And Mounts had two games for us, let's see what happens come the end of the season. Let's not forget he was a pivotal player in winning the Champions League and was selected ahead of Maddison for England every opportunity there was, so there must be something there the caf geniuses don't see yet.

It takes time for teams to gel. If I'm wrong I'm wrong but come what May we will see, not the end of August

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Off-topic, but could you share some of these tactics podcasts?

Of course - one that isn't specifically on tactics is Talk of the Devils, the official The Athletic Utd podcast, which has Laurie Whitwell, Andy Mitten and Carl Anka on it most of the time. The latter has a good eye for tactics and usually addresses this part of the games.

The other one, this is more granular, is Devil in the details, it's 2 American dudes that dissect games, it gives a different perspective on things. They're very unemotional, quite systematic in their approach to things, it's interesting.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Of course - one that isn't specifically on tactics is Talk of the Devils, the official The Athletic Utd podcast, which has Laurie Whitwell, Andy Mitten and Carl Anka on it most of the time. The latter has a good eye for tactics and usually addresses this part of the games.

The other one, this is more granular, is Devil in the details, it's 2 American dudes that dissect games, it gives a different perspective on things. They're very unemotional, quite systematic in their approach to things, it's interesting.

Love TODT, always a good listen. Thanks for sharing the second one, looking forward to my drive home now.

 

[simplyared]

How did we not get Maddison and get Mount??

 

[TipsyPhippsy]

I hope you realize that redcafe doesn't sign player.

Realise*

No put what he's saying is, most people on here given the choice would've picked Mount over Maddison if they had the choice. I personally prefer Maddison, I think people look too much into the fact that one plays for Chelsea and the other was relegated with Leicester.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

Realise*

No put what he's saying is, most people on here given the choice would've picked Mount over Maddison if they had the choice. I personally prefer Maddison, I think people look too much into the fact that one plays for Chelsea and the other was relegated with Leicester.

He is a good signing for Spurs, just like Barnes for Newcastle. Maddison is never on the radar for either Man Utd or Redcafe. Players from relegated clubs almost never the top picks for the big club fans.

 

[Isotope]

Realise*

No put what he's saying is, most people on here given the choice would've picked Mount over Maddison if they had the choice. I personally prefer Maddison, I think people look too much into the fact that one plays for Chelsea and the other was relegated with Leicester.

wahey.. broken your virgin post on mine.

Anyway, plenty in Caf rated Maddison.

 

[roonster09]

He is a good signing for Spurs, just like Barnes for Newcastle. Maddison is never on the radar for either Man Utd or Redcafe. Players from relegated clubs almost never the top picks for the big club fans.

That's nonsense with all due respect, every year we have thread on relegated, relegation zone teams to see which players can be picked from them. It's not caf mistake that club didn't sign players from relegated teams.

As usual for any signing, be it from relegated team or Madrid or talent hot bed teams there will be vocal minority, that's not the Caf's decision.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

How did we not get Maddison and get Mount??

Mount is more complete whereas Maddison better in attack. We need the latter even less given we have Bruno.

 

[Yagami]

How did we not get Maddison and get Mount??

Because we as a club have a habit of prioritising name value and players playing for bigger teams over what that player actually offers.

It's why we chose Donny and Sancho over Grealish. Grealish was just decent player carrying a midtable side to some. Nothing compared to players playing in the UCL.

Mount is more complete whereas Maddison better in attack. We need the latter even less given we have Bruno.

I mean, it's the exact opposite.

Mount's general play has always been bad but he works hard and can pop up with a goal or an assist.

Maddison is always involved in his teams general play, is press resistant, which Mount isn't, and can drop deeper because of this.

 

[Champ]

Because we as a club have a habit of prioritising name value and players playing for bigger teams over what that player actually offers.

It's why we chose Donny and Sancho over Grealish. Grealish was just decent player carrying a midtable side to some. Nothing compared to players playing in the UCL.


I mean, it's the exact opposite.

Mount's general play has always been bad but he works hard and can pop up with a goal or an assist.

Maddison is always involved in his teams general play, is press resistant, which Mount isn't, and can drop deeper because of this.

Firstly there's no such thing as a press resistant player, but that's a whole different argument entirely,
Maddison is a number ten , always wanted to be a number ten and doesn't pretend to be anything different. Completely the wrong profile of player United needs or indeed needed.
Mount is by far the more flexible player and has shown this at Chelsea.

 

[Idxomer]

Arguably, the most consistent #10 in the league for the last 3 seasons after De Bruyne.

 

[Rossa]

Arguably, the most consistent #10 in the league for the last 3 seasons after De Bruyne.

Isn't Bruno consistently up there with KDB and beyond Maddison?

In the Premier League:

Buno:
20/21 - 18 g - 12A
21/22 - 10 g - 6A
22/23 - 8 g - 8 A
Total: 36g - 26A

KDB:
20/21 - 6g - 12A
21/22 - 15g - 8A
22/23 - 7g - 16 A
Total: 28g - 36A

Maddison:
20/21 - 8g - 5A
21/22 - 12g - 8A
22/23 - 10g - 9A
Total: 30g - 22A

Chances created:
Bruno:
20/21: 20
21/22:15
22/23: 32
Total: 67

KDB:
20/21: 19
21/22: 16
22/23: 31
Total: 66

Maddison:
20/21: 6
21/22: 11
22/23: 12
Total: 29

So Bruno scores more than Maddison, assists more and creates more than twice as many big chances than Maddison. The real question is who is consistently better between Bruno and KDB as a creator and finisher. That is much closer. Maddison is not yet at their level. This season is up for grabs, and Bruno has been very poor thus far.

 

[Nobby style]

Because we as a club have a habit of prioritising name value and players playing for bigger teams over what that player actually offers.

It's why we chose Donny and Sancho over Grealish. Grealish was just decent player carrying a midtable side to some. Nothing compared to players playing in the UCL.


I mean, it's the exact opposite.

Mount's general play has always been bad but he works hard and can pop up with a goal or an assist.

Maddison is always involved in his teams general play, is press resistant, which Mount isn't, and can drop deeper because of this.

Didn't Mount get voted players´ player of the year twice, including the CL winning year, by his Chelsea mates, and featured regularly on the England side? How does one gets so far with poor general play?

 

[Jericho]

What are the chances that if we got Maddison and Mount went to Spurs we'd be saying "Why the feck didn't we get Mount instead?".

 

[Idxomer]

Isn't Bruno consistently up there with KDB and beyond Maddison?

In the Premier League:

Buno:
20/21 - 18 g - 12A
21/22 - 10 g - 6A
22/23 - 8 g - 8 A
Total: 36g - 26A

KDB:
20/21 - 6g - 12A
21/22 - 15g - 8A
22/23 - 7g - 16 A
Total: 28g - 36A

Maddison:
20/21 - 8g - 5A
21/22 - 12g - 8A
22/23 - 10g - 9A
Total: 30g - 22A

Chances created:
Bruno:
20/21: 20
21/22:15
22/23: 32
Total: 67

KDB:
20/21: 19
21/22: 16
22/23: 31
Total: 66

Maddison:
20/21: 6
21/22: 11
22/23: 12
Total: 29

So Bruno scores more than Maddison, assists more and creates more than twice as many big chances than Maddison. The real question is who is consistently better between Bruno and KDB as a creator and finisher. That is much closer. Maddison is not yet at their level. This season is up for grabs, and Bruno has been very poor thus far.

Maddison's productivity is better when you consider that he played much less than Bruno and almost all of his goals are from open play. The chances created stats in your post seem off for all 3 players.

Also, stats aren't the only reason Maddison is a better footballer.

 

[Varun]

What are the chances that if we got Maddison and Mount went to Spurs we'd be saying "Why the feck didn't we get Mount instead?".

Close to a given seeing as they're both 10s. One's actually playing there while the other is playing in the middle 2.

 

[zaafi]

Isn't Bruno consistently up there with KDB and beyond Maddison?

In the Premier League:

Buno:
20/21 - 18 g - 12A
21/22 - 10 g - 6A
22/23 - 8 g - 8 A
Total: 36g - 26A

KDB:
20/21 - 6g - 12A
21/22 - 15g - 8A
22/23 - 7g - 16 A
Total: 28g - 36A

Maddison:
20/21 - 8g - 5A
21/22 - 12g - 8A
22/23 - 10g - 9A
Total: 30g - 22A

Chances created:
Bruno:
20/21: 20
21/22:15
22/23: 32
Total: 67

KDB:
20/21: 19
21/22: 16
22/23: 31
Total: 66

Maddison:
20/21: 6
21/22: 11
22/23: 12
Total: 29

So Bruno scores more than Maddison, assists more and creates more than twice as many big chances than Maddison. The real question is who is consistently better between Bruno and KDB as a creator and finisher. That is much closer. Maddison is not yet at their level. This season is up for grabs, and Bruno has been very poor thus far.

Both Maddison and De Bruyne play much less minutes than Bruno, and Bruno is on penalties, while the others aren't. The last two seasons, Maddison has both scored more goals and assisted more in much less time, and is on good way to make it his third with 3 goals and 5 assists in 9 games.

Maddison is clearly a better footballer right now, and not just because of the statistics.

 

[Real Name]

What are the chances that if we got Maddison and Mount went to Spurs we'd be saying "Why the feck didn't we get Mount instead?".

99 percent.

 

[DJ_21]

So wish we signed him. Would have been a decent price aswell. He’d of jumped at the chance to join us

 

[Buster15]

So wish we signed him. Would have been a decent price aswell. He’d of jumped at the chance to join us

Exactly my view as well. He is better than any of our current players.

 

[DJ_21]

Exactly my view as well. He is better than any of our current players.

100% and he can actually make forward passes accurately.

 

[Spaghetti]

100% and he can actually make forward passes accurately.

Not if there’s nobody to pass to, which is our main problem

 

[Ayoba]

Isn't Bruno consistently up there with KDB and beyond Maddison?

In the Premier League:

Buno:
20/21 - 18 g - 12A
21/22 - 10 g - 6A
22/23 - 8 g - 8 A
Total: 36g - 26A

KDB:
20/21 - 6g - 12A
21/22 - 15g - 8A
22/23 - 7g - 16 A
Total: 28g - 36A

Maddison:
20/21 - 8g - 5A
21/22 - 12g - 8A
22/23 - 10g - 9A
Total: 30g - 22A

Chances created:
Bruno:
20/21: 20
21/22:15
22/23: 32
Total: 67

KDB:
20/21: 19
21/22: 16
22/23: 31
Total: 66

Maddison:
20/21: 6
21/22: 11
22/23: 12
Total: 29

So Bruno scores more than Maddison, assists more and creates more than twice as many big chances than Maddison. The real question is who is consistently better between Bruno and KDB as a creator and finisher. That is much closer. Maddison is not yet at their level. This season is up for grabs, and Bruno has been very poor thus far.

Bruno's 1st season was very good with us but since the he's been on a steady decline. Madisson has scored and assisted more than him in the last 2 years. He also turns up in big games, something which Bruno has failed to do. It's clear who's the better player right now.

 

[DJ_21]

Not if there’s nobody to pass to, which is our main problem

You’ve always got a Bruno or now an Hojlund who’s always looking for the ball.

 

[Buster15]

100% and he can actually make forward passes accurately.

Very good point. I rate him above Grealish who keeps falling down if you breathe on him
But Maddison has a tougher edge.

 

[Fortitude]

He's POTS to date.

I doubt many ever imagined he could perform like he has been.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

So wish we signed him. Would have been a decent price aswell. He’d of jumped at the chance to join us

(BIG) If the financial package is the same I am not sure as Utd has Bruno for his position already. Spurs can offer him a starter spot and London life style.

 

[Oldyella]

What are the chances that if we got Maddison and Mount went to Spurs we'd be saying "Why the feck didn't we get Mount instead?".

Probably. We would all be watching Maddison pass to Bruno just to see some glory ball over the top to lose possession, and start over again.

 

[flappyjay]

He's POTS to date.

I doubt many ever imagined he could perform like he has been.

I guess I am part of the minority then. I was happy when Kane left because I didn't want them on the same team. When he is fit he has always been a very good player. He is one of the 10's I wanted before we got Bruno.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Isn't Bruno consistently up there with KDB and beyond Maddison?

In the Premier League:

Buno:
20/21 - 18 g - 12A
21/22 - 10 g - 6A
22/23 - 8 g - 8 A
Total: 36g - 26A

KDB:
20/21 - 6g - 12A
21/22 - 15g - 8A
22/23 - 7g - 16 A
Total: 28g - 36A

Maddison:
20/21 - 8g - 5A
21/22 - 12g - 8A
22/23 - 10g - 9A
Total: 30g - 22A

Chances created:
Bruno:
20/21: 20
21/22:15
22/23: 32
Total: 67

KDB:
20/21: 19
21/22: 16
22/23: 31
Total: 66

Maddison:
20/21: 6
21/22: 11
22/23: 12
Total: 29

So Bruno scores more than Maddison, assists more and creates more than twice as many big chances than Maddison. The real question is who is consistently better between Bruno and KDB as a creator and finisher. That is much closer. Maddison is not yet at their level. This season is up for grabs, and Bruno has been very poor thus far.

Zoom out, this is not about player x versus player y. United's issue is we remain overly reliant on one or two players, when this works (like last season) it is fine but it is a high risk strategy. The other 2 teams that are dependent on a single players are City (mainly because KDB has been out all season) and Arsenal. Haaland obviously pays back that reliance in spades and Arsenal haven't actually been that great but their forwards all chipping in.

	Players with over 1 xG	Players with over 1 xAG	Key offensive player combined xG, xGA
Spurs	5 (Son 3.5, Maddison 2.8, Richarlison 2.7, Sarr 1.7, Kulu 1.1)	6 (Madison 2.8, Kulu 2.4, Son 2.3, Porro 1.4, Sarr 1.1, Richarlison 1)	Son 5.8
City	3 (Haaland 8.2, Alvarez 2.9, Rodri 1)	5 (Foden 1.7, Haaland 1.6, Doku 1.3, Alvarez 1.1, Silva 1.1)	Haaland 9.8
Arsenal	5 (Saka 4.1, Odegaard 2.6, Nketiah 1.9, Jesus 1.8, Havertz 1.6)	2 (Saka 2.1, Viera 1.1)	Saka 6.2
Pool	5 (Salah 6.6, Nunez 2.8, Diaz 2.6, Gakpo 1.9, Jota 1.6)	5 (Salah 4.4, Szob 1.8, Nunez 1.5, Robertson 1, VVD 1)	Salah 11
Villa	5 (Watkins 4.2, Luiz 3.2, Cash 2.9, Diaby 1.6, Bailey 1.4)	5 (Diaby 3.1, Watkins 2.2, Digne 1.4, McGinn 1.2, Bailey 1)	Watkins 6.4
Newcastle	5 (Isak 5.4, Wilson 4.3, Gordon 2.5, Almiron 1.3, Longstaff 1.1)	4 (Trippier 3.7, Gordon 1.7, Murphy 1.4, Guimares 1.1)	Isak 5.4
Brighton	8 (Pedro 2.6, Ferguson 2.5, Mitoma 2.4, March 2, Fati 2, Dunk 1.3, Gross 1.2, Welbeck 1.1)	7 (Estupinan 2.8, Mitoma 1.5, Gilmour 1.5, Pedro 1.3, Adingra 1.3, Gross 1.1, March 1)	Mitoma & Pedro 3.9
United	5 (Rashford 3.1, Bruno 2.8, Case 1.8, Hojlund 1.4, Varane 1.1)	3 (Bruno 3.7, Rashford 1.1, AWB 1.1)	Bruno 6.5

In my opinion this problem is exacerbated with United because we definitely accommodate Rashford's lack of defensive work and Bruno's positioning but then you compare them to someone like Salah, who Pool will allow a much less defensive role, and the output is just night and day. Add in injuries, individual errors and there is an element of bad luck here but we need a real fundamental change in how we build play, keep the ball and try to create chances.

 

[Andy_Cole]

What are the chances that if we got Maddison and Mount went to Spurs we'd be saying "Why the feck didn't we get Mount instead?".

Nah Maddison is a much better player who was under rated because he played for Leicester

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Zoom out, this is not about player x versus player y. United's issue is we remain overly reliant on one or two players, when this works (like last season) it is fine but it is a high risk strategy. The other 2 teams that are dependent on a single players are City (mainly because KDB has been out all season) and Arsenal. Haaland obviously pays back that reliance in spades and Arsenal haven't actually been that great but their forwards all chipping in.

	Players with over 1 xG	Players with over 1 xAG	Key offensive player combined xG, xGA
Spurs	5 (Son 3.5, Maddison 2.8, Richarlison 2.7, Sarr 1.7, Kulu 1.1)	6 (Madison 2.8, Kulu 2.4, Son 2.3, Porro 1.4, Sarr 1.1, Richarlison 1)	Son 5.8
City	3 (Haaland 8.2, Alvarez 2.9, Rodri 1)	5 (Foden 1.7, Haaland 1.6, Doku 1.3, Alvarez 1.1, Silva 1.1)	Haaland 9.8
Arsenal	5 (Saka 4.1, Odegaard 2.6, Nketiah 1.9, Jesus 1.8, Havertz 1.6)	2 (Saka 2.1, Viera 1.1)	Saka 6.2
Pool	5 (Salah 6.6, Nunez 2.8, Diaz 2.6, Gakpo 1.9, Jota 1.6)	5 (Salah 4.4, Szob 1.8, Nunez 1.5, Robertson 1, VVD 1)	Salah 11
Villa	5 (Watkins 4.2, Luiz 3.2, Cash 2.9, Diaby 1.6, Bailey 1.4)	5 (Diaby 3.1, Watkins 2.2, Digne 1.4, McGinn 1.2, Bailey 1)	Watkins 6.4
Newcastle	5 (Isak 5.4, Wilson 4.3, Gordon 2.5, Almiron 1.3, Longstaff 1.1)	4 (Trippier 3.7, Gordon 1.7, Murphy 1.4, Guimares 1.1)	Isak 5.4
Brighton	8 (Pedro 2.6, Ferguson 2.5, Mitoma 2.4, March 2, Fati 2, Dunk 1.3, Gross 1.2, Welbeck 1.1)	7 (Estupinan 2.8, Mitoma 1.5, Gilmour 1.5, Pedro 1.3, Adingra 1.3, Gross 1.1, March 1)	Mitoma & Pedro 3.9
United	5 (Rashford 3.1, Bruno 2.8, Case 1.8, Hojlund 1.4, Varane 1.1)	3 (Bruno 3.7, Rashford 1.1, AWB 1.1)	Bruno 6.5

In my opinion this problem is exacerbated with United because we definitely accommodate Rashford's lack of defensive work and Bruno's positioning but then you compare them to someone like Salah, who Pool will allow a much less defensive role, and the output is just night and day. Add in injuries, individual errors and there is an element of bad luck here but we need a real fundamental change in how we build play, keep the ball and try to create chances.

Or better/more productive attacking players? Last season our right and left wing were seriously unproductive. This season Hojlund centre and Rashford left was supposed to improve us. There’s been some glimmers of hope but nothing too convincing. Not yet anyway. We also need Antony to do more than just retain possession. To me, these are all much more critical issues to fix than worrying about upgrading Bruno.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Or better/more productive attacking players? Last season our right and left wing were seriously unproductive. This season Hojlund centre and Rashford left was supposed to improve us. There’s been some glimmers of hope but nothing too convincing. Not yet anyway. We also need Antony to do more than just retain possession. To me, these are all much more critical issues to fix than worrying about upgrading Bruno.

It's not about 'upgrading' Bruno, it's about ETH forcing him to pay a more discipled role and - more broadly - sorting out our comically porous midfield which Bruno's positioning creates, at least in part, in my opinion.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

He's POTS to date.

I doubt many ever imagined he could perform like he has been.

Personally I fully expected him to be this good at Spurs. My doubts lay in Spurs as a team matching it.

 

[Teja]

He's POTS to date.

I doubt many ever imagined he could perform like he has been.

I fully expected both Bissouma and Maddison to be this good. It's criminal that we don't take punts like this as a club.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

What are the chances that if we got Maddison and Mount went to Spurs we'd be saying "Why the feck didn't we get Mount instead?".

100% chances. Because our fans prefer to bash individual players rather than notice our playing system is still in flux because ETH switched it up from last season.