[OleGunnar20]

I think this is what is hurting his chances atm, our three senior midfielders (Pogba, Fred and Matic) have varying issues that make them unreliable to partner with a kid. If we had prime Carrick I think it would be easier to risk him in midfield from the start as he would have someone to hold his hands as he to get settled, our only reliable midfielder in an all round sense is McTominay but even he is still learning.

To be fair experience doesn't always bring with it the mentality you're talking about there. In fact, I'd say McTom has more of that about him than any of our other midfielders, Pogba included. Play him next to Pogba & McTom I say and allow them to develop an understanding.

Don't want him anywhere near the first team under the current regime. They'll absolutely destroy him.

He is a young player, playing him without seasoned inform players could be disastrous and destroy his confidence. If Matic wasn't done and in form then he'd be the best player to pair him with. Look at how Greenwood, Chong and Gomes are lost playing in a dysfunctional team. The best team we could play him in is in a trio that includes Mctominay and Pogba.

So I see this argument made a lot and can see how it might make sense, but can't think of one example of a player this has actually happened to. I'd argue that the failure rate of players coming into the first team is more down to a lack of the required ability & mentality, rather than this 'Too much too soon' phenomenon. I just don't see it.

 

[Irrational.]

Would he have done any worse than Fred today?

If we weren't playing Liverpool next he'd be starting the next game.

 

[Raw]

I don't get why he isn't getting more chances. Our midfield is so so terrible yet he can't even get subbed on.

 

[Kostov]

Would he have done any worse than Fred today?

If we weren't playing Liverpool next he'd be starting the next game.

No he would have not. Fred is awful.

 

[Acquire Me]

No he would have not. Fred is awful.

Fred just can’t hack it in the Premier League. I think Garner should play. Garner also makes sense for the future.

 

[OohAahMartial]

Ole has been too fearful in many of his selections and decisions. I just hope he realises that if he is now a dead man walking he really has nothing to lose by going full youth and not playing the likes of Fred, Matic, Mata, Young and back our young Captains like Williams, Garner, Tuanzebe, Gomes. They simply can't do worse.

 

[matherto]

Play him in a 4-3-3.

 

[Xeno]

Pogba-Garner-Mctominay could work?

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Ole has been too fearful in many of his selections and decisions. I just hope he realises that if he is now a dead man walking he really has nothing to lose by going full youth and not playing the likes of Fred, Matic, Mata, Young and back our young Captains like Williams, Garner, Tuanzebe, Gomes. They simply can't do worse.

But he’ll still spout s*** about the ‘United Way’ & trusting in youngsters; the guy has padded out the squad with players he doesn’t actually trust.

He will have a further detrimental effect on the youngsters the longer he stays.

 

[AP88]

He’s only a few months younger than the kid who scored for Newcastle yesterday; he should be playing now with a view to accelerating his development as well as upgrading Fred and Matic.

He could be England and United’s #6 for the next 15 years - the variety in his passing is exceptional.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

He’s only a few months younger than the kid who scored for Newcastle yesterday; he should be playing now with a view to accelerating his development as well as upgrading Fred and Matic.

He could be England and United’s #6 for the next 15 years - the variety in his passing is exceptional.

One year not a few months. I don’t think he’s ready this season especially not under Ole, but next season I would like him to be given a chance as 4th choice midfield in the 2 man midfield or 5th / 6th choice in 3 man midfield.

 

[Mark Pawelek]

He’s only a few months younger than the kid who scored for Newcastle yesterday; ...

He's a whole year younger than Matty Longstaff.

Longstaff. d-o-b: 21 March 2000
Garner. d-o-b: 13 March 2001

 

[We've Won It All]

You can't compare the pressure of playing for a failing Manchester United, where the Manager is about 2 games away from getting fired, to a Newcastle United team that (in reality) would take 17th place this season.

I get people are pissed off with our midfielders; I am too. But you putting the kid to the slaughter by playing him in high pressure games right now.

 

[Mark Pawelek]

Ole said Garner's developing as a box to box midfielder. We already have Pogba and McT for that. We need a DLP more than another box to box player right now, a creative central mid who can make things happen. I hope Ole can rectify that in January.

Garner is an "attacking" defensive centre midfield. Like Partey, Emre Can and Bruno Guimarães (at Paranaense). A "box-to-box" in the sense he'll be in both boxes during the match; but he'll only be in the opposition box when completing a move.

 

[Johan07]

One year not a few months. I don’t think he’s ready this season especially not under Ole, but next season I would like him to be given a chance as 4th choice midfield in the 2 man midfield or 5th / 6th choice in 3 man midfield.

I think Garner will be a great player, but he is nowhere near ready to play DM for us. Im all for him hanging around the first team this season and get some minutes. But then - if not a miracle happens - he needs to go on loan for at least a season and play regularly. He is two or three years away from being able to handle playing the most demanding position that there is in the PL. It took Fernandinho two seasons to adjust and he was what? 28ish when he arrived from Shakhtar.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

I think Garner will be a great player, but he is nowhere near ready to play DM for us. Im all for him hanging around the first team this season and get some minutes. But then - if not a miracle happens - he needs to go on loan for at least a season and play regularly. He is two or three years away from being able to handle playing the most demanding position that there is in the PL. It took Fernandinho two seasons to adjust and he was what? 28ish when he arrived from Shakhtar.

So we should give Fred more time to adapt?

 

[ottosec]

It's strange that this lad hasn't been given any minutes in the first team, considering the state of our midfield.

He doesn't fit Ole's philosophy of only fielding midfielders that can't pass the ball, I guess.

 

[Mark Pawelek]

So we should give Fred more time to adapt?

No. SAF gave most players less than a season to adapt. There's nothing special in Fred. He's not a youth player. He doesn't have potential. WYSIWYG. No reason he should get special treatment. Fred hasn't been moved on due to his £52m cost. Accounts and money men can't accept United must take a hit on him. They're besotted with the sunk cost fallacy.

 

[romufc]

You can't compare the pressure of playing for a failing Manchester United, where the Manager is about 2 games away from getting fired, to a Newcastle United team that (in reality) would take 17th place this season.

I get people are pissed off with our midfielders; I am too. But you putting the kid to the slaughter by playing him in high pressure games right now.

Playing for manutd, there is pressure at all time.

Either now when the manager is under threat, or if we are fighting for top 4, or titles. There will always be pressure.

ALso, the pressure for Newcastle was massive too where the manager has not started well, lost 5-0 the week before, and could be in a relegation fight.

I don't get this pressure is too much crap fans bring up.

If the manager thinks these players are good enough and can handle it, they should play.

 

[Mark Pawelek]

I think Garner will be a great player, but he is nowhere near ready to play DM for us. Im all for him hanging around the first team this season and get some minutes. But then - if not a miracle happens - he needs to go on loan for at least a season and play regularly. He is two or three years away from being able to handle playing the most demanding position that there is in the PL. It took Fernandinho two seasons to adjust and he was what? 28ish when he arrived from Shakhtar.

He's potentially United's DMC for years to come. Injuries, or other things might get in his way. If Garner continues to develop, as he has, he will make it here. I'm not comparing Garner to Fernandinho; because Fernandinho isn't in United's squad. Please compare Garner to players who are actually here at OT.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

No. SAF gave most players less than a season to adapt. There's nothing special in Fred. He's not a youth player. He doesn't have potential. WYSIWYG. No reason he should get special treatment. Fred hasn't been moved on due to his £52m cost. Accounts and money men can't accept United must take a hit on him. They're besotted with the sunk cost fallacy.

Thought i had some white text there. My mistake.

I just find it hilarious that people did not recognize the obvious issues with him. Issues that were clearly not dependent on adapting or not. "Still a player in there, can't play for the brazilian nationalteam without being a good player!"... Yes you can.

We are stuck with him for now given the financial hit and that we would need to pay half of his wages if we were going to "sell" him.

 

[Johan07]

So we should give Fred more time to adapt?

This season, then he might need to go if he does not start to perform. But Fred is not a pure DM and he can and should definitely not play as a No6.
Since I live in the Ukraine I saw a lot of Fred at Shakhtar and he is at his best when he plays in a double pivot with a more defensively oriented midfielder as Taras Stepanenko who he had beside him at Shakthar. He should always have been back-up for Pogba or Herrera; nothing else. I would give him this season though and see what happens.
Then we of course have the reality that we cant let Matic (he is gone), Pogba (probably gone), and Fred go all at once next summer when we already are light in midfield. Midfield is going to be a big issue nxt summer no matter what.

 

[Prodigy24]

I think it's quite weird how Ole always talks about playing youngsters and what not and is yet to give Garner some minutes. Surely he can't be any worse than the likes of Fred and Pereira? He's been very good for the reserves so far this season so I guess it's just a matter of time before he gets some minutes for the first team.

 

[Johan07]

He's potentially United's DMC for years to come. Injuries, or other things might get in his way. If Garner continues to develop, as he has, he will make it here. I'm not comparing Garner to Fernandinho; because Fernandinho isn't in United's squad. Please compare Garner to players who are actually here at OT.

They are different players of course. I was making the comparison because its one of the toughest positions to adapt to in the PL. When a player like Fernadinho did not immediately, and you see a world class talent as Rodri struggling at City, you cant expect Garner to not need a couple of more years to adapt to the league.

 

[Mark Pawelek]

"Still a player in there, can't play for the brazilian national team without being a good player!"... Yes you can.

Nailed. There are thousands of Brazilians playing around the world. Many of them with a match or two for the national team on their C.V. It's almost as if the Brazilian soccer federation hves a policy of giving 2nd rate players a friendly or two to put on their CV!

 

[Prodigy24]

Nailed. There are thousands of Brazilians playing around the world. Many of them with a match or two for the national team on their C.V. It's almost as if the Brazilian soccer federation hves a policy of giving 2nd rate players a friendly or two to put on their CV!

Yeah, it's weird. Even Andreas fecking Pereira has played for them.

 

[Mark Pawelek]

They are different players of course. I was making the comparison because its one of the toughest positions to adapt to in the PL. When a player like Fernadinho did not immediately, and you see a world class talent as Rodri struggling at City, you cant expect Garner to not need a couple of more years to adapt to the league.

I'm not sure these honours are enough to put Rodri in the world class bracket. You're still comparing Garner to players in other squads when you should really compare him to players in United's squad. Take Pogba and McTominay away from United's current midfield, and they are relegation level, not world class level. The issue should be: is Garner better than relegation level at this moment in time. I think he is.

 

[Bestietom]

Pogba-Garner-Mctominay could work?

It certainly could work. Can't wait to see this young man starting.

 

[Mike Phelan's Former Tash]

If Garner is the best in the DM role right now at the club then he should be picked.

I'd just like to see a consistent team selection for 4-5 games with the best players at the club for each position actually playing regardless of age or potential or whatever.

If Matic is actually better than Garner in training then he should play DM. If he's not then I'd like to see Garner play instead (Fred is useless). Same with Lingard/Mata and Gomes. Lingard and Mata have had a few games and have been unimpressive so it should now be Gomes' opportunity surely.

Tuanzebe over Lindelof and Williams ahead of Young are other examples.

I get a feeling that the team are picked on hierarchy rather than form in training atm because how else can you explain Fred, Lingard, Mata, Young, Matic and Peirera getting picked unless the young players we have are actually sh*t (I don't think they are btw).

 

[Xeno]

Well if we are going to get beat I’d rather get beat with kids than past its.

 

[snowkarl]

You guys keep doing this and it's nuts.

First it was Neymar mk2 Angel Gomes who could save our season and just hit the ground running - of course it didn't work but hey it happens right.

Then it was Chong who destroyed Skriniar that one time in a friendly so surely he must be better than relegation level and will do well in the Pl! - went on to play extremely poorly and will without a doubt be shipped out in the summer.

Then AGAIN you guys did it with Greenwood and everyone said yeah he will definitely make it here because he gaits about like Van Persie so he can be second choice striker at 17 its cool. - zero impact in the PL.

Now you want to ruin the development of another youngster with literally no first team experience by throwing him on in the by far worst team we've had for at least 30 years???

Our academy prospects are not better than the mid and bottom table teams first team players (some of our first teamers aren't either...), stop lying to yourselves. Every time we hype these youths up and push managers to play them only for it to inevitably back fire when they play poorly and start getting abuse.

Academy players should never be relied upon like this and only get introduced in easier games with less pressure or on loan.

Aside from Rashford we've barely had a talent come through and be a first team player for a decade so let's bring back expectations to more realistic levels.

 

[Seb burrow]

I just hope we don’t put too much pressure on these young kids. Be great to see him play but he needs time.

The lack of experience within these youngsters is alarming. The Chelsea kids have gained a lot of experience from their time away, we need to take note.

And Foden. He gets the odd game here and there. He could probably do with more game time but pep is looking after him.

 

[MrBest]

You can't compare the pressure of playing for a failing Manchester United, where the Manager is about 2 games away from getting fired, to a Newcastle United team that (in reality) would take 17th place this season.

I get people are pissed off with our midfielders; I am too. But you putting the kid to the slaughter by playing him in high pressure games right now.

Agree with this but i feel out of Chong gomes and greenwood he has the best mentality at times like this. He has leadership qualities the other three do not have. He seems gritty and his head firmly older than the real age. I may be wrong ...

 

[AltiUn]

You guys keep doing this and it's nuts.

First it was Neymar mk2 Angel Gomes who could save our season and just hit the ground running - of course it didn't work but hey it happens right.

Then it was Chong who destroyed Skriniar that one time in a friendly so surely he must be better than relegation level and will do well in the Pl! - went on to play extremely poorly and will without a doubt be shipped out in the summer.

Then AGAIN you guys did it with Greenwood and everyone said yeah he will definitely make it here because he gaits about like Van Persie so he can be second choice striker at 17 its cool. - zero impact in the PL.

Now you want to ruin the development of another youngster with literally no first team experience by throwing him on in the by far worst team we've had for at least 30 years???

Our academy prospects are not better than the mid and bottom table teams first team players (some of our first teamers aren't either...), stop lying to yourselves. Every time we hype these youths up and push managers to play them only for it to inevitably back fire when they play poorly and start getting abuse.

Academy players should never be relied upon like this and only get introduced in easier games with less pressure or on loan.

Aside from Rashford we've barely had a talent come through and be a first team player for a decade so let's bring back expectations to more realistic levels.

Strictly speaking aside from Rashford, McTominay, Pogba, Lingard, Pereira and Tuanzebe are all academy players currently playing a part in the first team, whether you think they're good enough or not is another matter entirely.

 

[limerickcitykid]

Agree with this but i feel out of Chong gomes and greenwood he has the best mentality at times like this. He has leadership qualities the other three do not have. He seems gritty and his head firmly older than the real age. I may be wrong ...

What leadership qualities does he have that Angel doesn't? Seeing as any time they share the pitch the coaching staff believe Angel to be the leader.

 

[MrBest]

If Garner is the best in the DM role right now at the club then he should be picked.

I'd just like to see a consistent team selection for 4-5 games with the best players at the club for each position actually playing regardless of age or potential or whatever.

If Matic is actually better than Garner in training then he should play DM. If he's not then I'd like to see Garner play instead (Fred is useless). Same with Lingard/Mata and Gomes. Lingard and Mata have had a few games and have been unimpressive so it should now be Gomes' opportunity surely.

Tuanzebe over Lindelof and Williams ahead of Young are other examples.

I get a feeling that the team are picked on hierarchy rather than form in training atm because how else can you explain Fred, Lingard, Mata, Young, Matic and Peirera getting picked unless the young players we have are actually sh*t (I don't think they are btw).

Your team for Liverpool; de gea awb Tuanzabe maguire williams garner Mctominay gomes james greenwood rashford. I think that team would do better than de gea awb Lindelof maguire young Mctominay matic mata james rashford andreas. I cannot fault your comment.

 

[MrBest]

What leadership qualities does he have that Angel doesn't? Seeing as any time they share the pitch the coaching staff believe Angel to be the leader.

I think he naturally has more presence on the pitch, is much more vocal but i have only seen a few reserve games. Like i said, i may be wrong i do nto watch training and all the reserve games but given the staff are still starting mata matic and andreas, i have no idea what to believe anymore.

 

[limerickcitykid]

I think he naturally has more presence on the pitch, is much more vocal but i have only seen a few reserve games. Like i said, i may be wrong i do nto watch training and all the reserve games but given the staff are still starting mata matic and andreas, i have no idea what to believe anymore.

Our youth staff don't pick the first team. Nor do England's youth staff who had Angel as captain for years.

In other words you actually haven't a clue other than some generic stuff about "grit" and "presence."

 

[MrBest]

Our youth staff don't pick the first team. Nor do England's youth staff who had Angel as captain for years.

In other words you actually haven't a clue other than some generic stuff about "grit" and "presence."

I couldn't give a stuff what Englands youth staff say to be absolutely blunt with you. Like I said, and this is now the third time, I may be wrong and I am hapoy to be corrected. I have watched a handful of games but this is my perception from what I have seen. I am more than in my right to stress my opinion of what I see - it does not mean I do not have a clue. Unless you sit and watch every game, which you may do, my perception is as good as yours as it is a matter of opinion until we see otherwise. If you do watch every game or more than I do myself, you could of just explained the information I am missing rather than choosing a political view point by trying to exercise some kind of authority by putting my opinions down. As I said, I am more than happy to be corrected with updated information from a more knowledgable fan - trust me I am not that arrogant. I am however not happy with comments such as "well you don't have a clue" when you do not even know me.

 

[NWRed]

You guys keep doing this and it's nuts.

First it was Neymar mk2 Angel Gomes who could save our season and just hit the ground running - of course it didn't work but hey it happens right.

Then it was Chong who destroyed Skriniar that one time in a friendly so surely he must be better than relegation level and will do well in the Pl! - went on to play extremely poorly and will without a doubt be shipped out in the summer.

Then AGAIN you guys did it with Greenwood and everyone said yeah he will definitely make it here because he gaits about like Van Persie so he can be second choice striker at 17 its cool. - zero impact in the PL.

Now you want to ruin the development of another youngster with literally no first team experience by throwing him on in the by far worst team we've had for at least 30 years???

Our academy prospects are not better than the mid and bottom table teams first team players (some of our first teamers aren't either...), stop lying to yourselves. Every time we hype these youths up and push managers to play them only for it to inevitably back fire when they play poorly and start getting abuse.

Academy players should never be relied upon like this and only get introduced in easier games with less pressure or on loan.

Aside from Rashford we've barely had a talent come through and be a first team player for a decade so let's bring back expectations to more realistic levels.

First, Gomes has not been given a proper chance in the first team yet, and certainly not as a no10 playing with Pogba, Martial and Rashford, so to pass any kind of judgement like you are doing is impossible.

Second, nobody (at least nobody with any common sense) said Gomes and Greenwood would walk into the side and domminate matches, but the key point is in bold, if the first teamers aren't performing and we're doing shite anyway, there is only upside to playing the kids as they will develop quicker by being playing first team football, so long term we get a better, homegrown team.