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2019-20 Performances

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5.7 Season Average Rating
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He has the second best awareness of space of anyone in the squad (after Lingard). But he has youth on his side to get even better.

On the other hand, technically speaking, Garner is on another planet. His one-touch play is incredible. Our academy obviously focuses on that for all our youngsters, but this kid seems to be amongst the best I've seen of the recent graduates.

He'll end up somewhere between average Premier League level and world-class midfielder, imo. It's going to depend on him how high up that list he gets. I wouldn't be surprised if he makes it all the way to the top.
 
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Adam-Utd said:
I think that’s what people expected at first, but he seems to be so good at scoring recently I think him being that deep is wasted.

He will eventually settle into that type of DLP role, but right now I’d have him as a box to box.
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As an England fan I hope that he nails the DLP position because it’s what we’re desperate for. Carrick was a more dynamic box to box type in his younger days also.
 
P-Nut said:
Their athleticism is the main difference though. Their are clips on YouTube of Garners higights 2 years in a row in the youth teams, and he dictates games from deep with the effortlessness that Scholes did on the senior team with ease.

Sure, we've not seen that yet from Garner, and likely won't for several years yet, but I think he'll turn into a very similar style of player, it's just the level he'll perform it at that is up for debate for me.
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That's exactly how Keane and Carrick played too. Controlled the game from a deep position in addition to strong defensive instincts and ability to win the ball.

If Garner can dictate games at the highest level anywhere near as well as Carrick or even half as well as Keane, he'll be doing really well for himself.

Adam-Utd said:
Garner doesn’t have technique? he slings the ball around the ball with ease and hits the ball as clean as anything. Technique is one of his best traits!
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It was one of Keane and Carrick's best traits too.

Are you honestly trying to say that Garner is technically as good as Scholes? If he is, then with his superior physique, athleticism and defensive instincts, he'll be one of the best midfield players of all time!
 
POF said:
That's exactly how Keane and Carrick played too. Controlled the game from a deep position in addition to strong defensive instincts and ability to win the ball.

If Garner can dictate games at the highest level anywhere near as well as Carrick or even half as well as Keane, he'll be doing really well for himself.



It was one of Keane and Carrick's best traits too.

Are you honestly trying to say that Garner is technically as good as Scholes? If he is, then with his superior physique, athleticism and defensive instincts, he'll be one of the best midfield players of all time!
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I never said he’s as good AS scholes, as he was one of the best midfielders of his generation. To say his technique isn’t good though is different.

I’ve seen garner hit passes very similar to scholes. There was one recently for Williams in the reserves from midfield, right over the top into his path, then Williams squares for a goal.

look back at some of the goals he’s scored since the start of this season, he absolutely wellies the ball into the corners with precision.

If he can learn to dictate the game and still keep his all around game, he will be the closest thing to scholes we’ve seen in a long time. I’d hope for a Toni Kroos level.
 
I think for now if he plays it has to be in a midfield 3. Playing him in important games in a double pivot would be setting him up for failure
 
flappyjay said:
I think for now if he plays it has to be in a midfield 3. Playing him in important games in a double pivot would be setting him up for failure
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One thing I don't understand that. He's astute as a cb, worrying about him being overrun in midfield is a strange worry. He'll have instructions to curb his attacking instincts in the same way we've seen when he's made cameos.
 
He is scoring plenty of goals that is true. But he is also very good at tackling and interceptions. That would make him a monster as a CAM in Oles high press system. But lets not forget we also have Dylan Levitt coming through and he is looking more like the Scholes type than Garner.

If we are to play them both in the future, I think Garner is best played in a Carrick type role to make way for the likes of Gomes and Levitt to play in the more forward midfield roles when they eventually join the First Team. Garner will probably be able to find anyone on the pitch at any given time if he fulfills his passing potential and he also has a great defensive brain, being able to tackle and intercept with apparent ease. These are great attributes for a DLP to have, and I think that is probably where he will eventually play. He will also be able to chip in with a few goals which is great to see. The sky really is the limit for the lad.

I secretly believe that he could be the best of the bunch from our recent graduates. But if I am wrong, it will definitely not be the first (or last) time.
 
Would love to know what people see in Declan Rice, that would convince them to sign him over the development of Garner, who will be twice the player by the time he is Rice's age, say in 2 years.
 
meamth said:
Scholes when he was second striker is different from Scholes in deep lying playmaker.

What I was saying is that James Garner now looks more like a CAM rather than a complete midfielder.

Scholes started out as an attacker wasn't he?
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When Garner plays for the U21s and U23s he is a DMC; and looks like one. I don't know about box-to-box at all. Garner isn't afraid to advance to the edge of the box and try his luck; how does that make him box-to-box? He spends 90%+ of his time holding the midfield as the main DMC.
 
Mark Pawelek said:
When Garner plays for the U21s and U23s he is a DMC; and looks like one. I don't know about box-to-box at all. Garner isn't afraid to advance to the edge of the box and try his luck; how does that make him box-to-box? He spends 90%+ of his time holding the midfield as the main DMC.
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That’s because it’s the position we need him to play.

He played as an 8 for England and scored twice. He can play both.
 
I on'td know where these can claims are coming from, he's never played as a cam at any level. When he was younger he played as a CB & RB occasionally but from u16s up he's pretty much always been the deepest player in midfield. Just because he has the athleticism & has started to pop up on the edge of the box to score more goals this season doesn't make him a cam.
 
Adam-Utd said:
That’s because it’s the position we need him to play.

He played as an 8 for England and scored twice. He can play both.
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I have no problem moving Garner to b2b or CAM - in the U23s - to see whether it works. I have a massive problem doing it against premiership opposition on his 2nd or 3rd start. Play Garner in his natural position with the seniors or do don't play him at all.
 
With McTominay out we need to play this guy. No more experiments with Pereira at CM.
 
jackal&hyde said:
With McTominay out we need to play this guy. No more experiments with Pereira at CM.
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I like Garner but he'd of probably of been bullied in that game. Hard ask for him to come into. He'll start against Astana.
 
Maybe so but i can't see how he could have been worse then Pereira. He's been ok the few minutes he's played. Might be on course for Vila too.
 
Said before the game he should have played, and still feel the same now.

He's used to playing CB, our last concern should be that he'd get bullied or easily played around.

My actual worry would be he wouldn't impact the game enough, but that will only be allayed by playing time and with McT out he's got a chance to show what he can do.
 
Like Levitt, he kept ticking the game. Thought both him and Levitt played safe game, did well though.
 
Wasn’t particularly special, and hasn’t been in his first team outings so far. It’s atill very early for him though, so he may we’ll become class. I do think we need to rid ourselves of this habit of assuming all decent youth talents will become top players though, generally speaking. There are midfielders the same age as James Ghana who are far more impressive. Let him keep getting his games like this and see where he ends up in a couple of years.
 
Rozay said:
Wasn’t particularly special, and hasn’t been in his first team outings so far. It’s atill very early for him though, so he may we’ll become class. I do think we need to rid ourselves of this habit of assuming all decent youth talents will become top players though, generally speaking. There are midfielders the same age as James Ghana who are far more impressive. Let him keep getting his games like this and see where he ends up in a couple of years.
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Yeah I am still unsure with him; his ceiling might be a lot higher as a ball-playing central defender. Levitt seems more of a natural midfield player to me.
 
Thought he and Levitt did well under the circumstances. Great that we’re avle to give them an opportunity like this. Together they are obviously still a light weight pivot against men.
 
Very good. With Levitt he controlled the mid very well. Maybe one of him and Levitt might have to go on loan for the rest of the season and come back next year with first team experience. Very excited for these two!
 
Astana stood off too much to really tell how he'd do in a Prem start but I thought he was a bit better than Levitt today. Tidy.
 
Rozay said:
Wasn’t particularly special, and hasn’t been in his first team outings so far. It’s atill very early for him though, so he may we’ll become class. I do think we need to rid ourselves of this habit of assuming all decent youth talents will become top players though, generally speaking. There are midfielders the same age as James Ghana who are far more impressive. Let him keep getting his games like this and see where he ends up in a couple of years.
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Not sure which 18 year old CMs are playing at top level, I checked for top 5 leagues and there are only 2 18 year old CMs who played this season. Camavinga and Adil Aouchiche who played just 65 mins.

Checked few more leagues for CM/DM who are 18 or below.
Premier league - 0 CMs
La Liga - 0 CMs
Serie A - 0 CMs
Bundesliga - 0 CMs
French League - Camavinga and Adil Aouchiche who played just 65 mins
Portuguese league - 0 CMs
Dutch league - Mohamed Ihattaren
Championship - Jude Bellingham
Russian league - 0 CMs
Brazilian league - 0 CMs
Turkish league - 0 CMs
Europa league - Camavinga
Champions league - 0 CMs
 
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Rozay said:
Wasn’t particularly special, and hasn’t been in his first team outings so far. It’s atill very early for him though, so he may we’ll become class. I do think we need to rid ourselves of this habit of assuming all decent youth talents will become top players though, generally speaking. There are midfielders the same age as James Ghana who are far more impressive. Let him keep getting his games like this and see where he ends up in a couple of years.
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Ahh..they're our kids. We love 'em and think they're better than everyone else's kids. It's totally natural and better than shitting all over them.
 
roonster09 said:
Not sure which 18 year old CMs are playing at top level, I checked for top 5 leagues and there are only 2 18 year old CMs who played this season. Camavinga and Adil Aouchiche who played just 65 mins.

Checked few more leagues for CM/DM who are 18 or below.
Premier league - 0 CMs
La Liga - 0 CMs
Serie A - 0 CMs
Bundesliga - 0 CMs
French League - Camavinga and Adil Aouchiche who played just 65 mins
Portuguese league - 0 CMs
Dutch league - Mohamed Ihattaren
Championship - Jude Bellingham
Russian league - 0 CMs
Brazilian league - 0 CMs
Turkish league - 0 CMs
Europa league - Camavinga
Champions league - 0 CMs
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Don't you just love facts! Good post.
 
roonster09 said:
Not sure which 18 year old CMs are playing at top level, I checked for top 5 leagues and there are only 2 18 year old CMs who played this season. Camavinga and Adil Aouchiche who played just 65 mins.

Checked few more leagues for CM/DM who are 18 or below.
Premier league - 0 CMs
La Liga - 0 CMs
Serie A - 0 CMs
Bundesliga - 0 CMs
French League - Camavinga and Adil Aouchiche who played just 65 mins
Portuguese league - 0 CMs
Dutch league - Mohamed Ihattaren
Championship - Jude Bellingham
Russian league - 0 CMs
Brazilian league - 0 CMs
Turkish league - 0 CMs
Europa league - Camavinga
Champions league - 0 CMs
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I mean, you are perhaps splitting hairs with semantics on a month here and there. Matteo Guendouzi is 19, a full international for the best team in the world, and has been an Arsenal regular for 18 months, Sandro Tonali is 19 and has similar pedigree, Morgan Gibbs-White has been starting PL games for over a year and is a similar age. And I did say ‘far more impressive’ anyway, not even necessarily most games. The bar to be a young midfielder breaking into the United team should be as high as it is anywhere else. Just because you are a ‘good young player’ doesn’t necessarily make you a United one. I like Garner, I think he’s a talent, more so than McTominay who has just come through ahead of him, but I’m just not sure which side of the line between West Ham United and Manchester United level talent he falls. Both are good levels for a kid and it’s not intended as an insult. Time will tell of course.
 
Rozay said:
I mean, you are perhaps splitting hairs with semantics on a month here and there. Matteo Guendouzi is 19, a full international for the best team in the world, and has been an Arsenal regular for 18 months, Sandro Tonali is 19 and has similar pedigree, Morgan Gibbs-White has been starting PL games for over a year and is a similar age. And I did say ‘far more impressive’ anyway, not even necessarily most games. The bar to be a young midfielder breaking into the United team should be as high as it is anywhere else. Just because you are a ‘good young player’ doesn’t necessarily make you a United one. I like Garner, I think he’s a talent, more so than McTominay who has just come through ahead of him, but I’m just not sure which side of the line between West Ham United and Manchester United level talent he falls. Both are good levels for a kid and it’s not intended as an insult. Time will tell of course.
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Ah, I thought you meant 18 year old CMs and current season.

Btw Guendouzi is 20 years old and yeah if we are going with previous seasons then I agree there are few young players around 18-19 age who did well.
 
Thought he did fine, kept things ticking over. Astana stood off him and Levitt so it’s hard to say how well they actually did, when you let players like that have time on the ball then they’ll naturally pick out most of their passes easily.
 
Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær said:
Ahh..they're our kids. We love 'em and think they're better than everyone else's kids. It's totally natural and better than shitting all over them.
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That’s true, but I just think that, just like footballers, we should be ‘experienced’ now in our role as fans. Most of them aren’t that good. I am now typically conservative with my expectation.

I’m also a little wary that a bias to academy players increases the risk of us having a weaker team. Especially as the current management set up is of that profile too. I don’t think they will fill our team with Championship level players because of a bias, but I think the margins are finer than that. For instance, I think they could well fill our team with West Ham or Everton level players because they are youth products. I mean, it’s a thinner line between that level and ours, and both are ‘good’ players and are capable of contributing if given an opportunity. Just not necessarily in the category of ‘would we be interested them if they were elsewhere?’ Like, I don’t think McTominay is that good a midfielder, objectively speaking, and I haven’t been as impressed with Brandon Williams as many others either. Thing is, I do think they are both good/talented, Williams more so tbh. That said, I don’t think he’s 18 year old Rafael level good, for instance. But our fans are quick to call off the search once we have a good young player in a role, but our rivals will just go and buy a better one. A LB here, a CM there, a CB there and over time, the team is good, but just not THAT good. It’s a fear I have.

Personally, only Greenwood and Laird so far look like the most ‘United-level’ young players at the club to me.
 
Rozay said:
I mean, you are perhaps splitting hairs with semantics on a month here and there. Matteo Guendouzi is 19, a full international for the best team in the world, and has been an Arsenal regular for 18 months, Sandro Tonali is 19 and has similar pedigree, Morgan Gibbs-White has been starting PL games for over a year and is a similar age. And I did say ‘far more impressive’ anyway, not even necessarily most games. The bar to be a young midfielder breaking into the United team should be as high as it is anywhere else. Just because you are a ‘good young player’ doesn’t necessarily make you a United one. I like Garner, I think he’s a talent, more so than McTominay who has just come through ahead of him, but I’m just not sure which side of the line between West Ham United and Manchester United level talent he falls. Both are good levels for a kid and it’s not intended as an insult. Time will tell of course.
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There are also shittons of class CMs throughout the years who didn't do as well as Garner does when they were at same age. Doesn't mean anything. As a number 6 Garner has enough tools in his locker to be a a United player imo, development on next few years will be crucial.
 
khoazany said:
There are also shittons of class CMs throughout the years who didn't do as well as Garner does when they were at same age. Doesn't mean anything. As a number 6 Garner has enough tools in his locker to be a a United player imo, development on next few years will be crucial.
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Of course this is true. I mean, if everyone wants to extract one line from about 10 that I wrote, it may well be misleading. Overall, I’m personally not yet sure he’s of the very top shelf, but of course respect that he is very young and has plenty of time.
 
Rozay said:
That’s true, but I just think that, just like footballers, we should be ‘experienced’ now in our role as fans. Most of them aren’t that good. I am now typically conservative with my expectation.

I’m also a little wary that a bias to academy players increases the risk of us having a weaker team. Especially as the current management set up is of that profile too. I don’t think they will fill our team with Championship level players because of a bias, but I think the margins are finer than that. For instance, I think they could well fill our team with West Ham or Everton level players because they are youth products. I mean, it’s a thinner line between that level and ours, and both are ‘good’ players and are capable of contributing if given an opportunity. Just not necessarily in the category of ‘would we be interested them if they were elsewhere?’ Like, I don’t think McTominay is that good a midfielder, objectively speaking, and I haven’t been as impressed with Brandon Williams as many others either. Thing is, I do think they are both good/talented, Williams more so tbh. That said, I don’t think he’s 18 year old Rafael level good, for instance. But our fans are quick to call off the search once we have a good young player in a role, but our rivals will just go and buy a better one. A LB here, a CM there, a CB there and over time, the team is good, but just not THAT good. It’s a fear I have.

Personally, only Greenwood and Laird so far look like the most ‘United-level’ young players at the club to me.
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All that you say is true but as fans, we're here for those moments of special excitement. Especially for those of us who saw the Fergie years. We're chasing the same dragon that hooked us when Becks scored from the halfway line or Giggsy tore it up on the wing.

Our academy produces good players as you say, West Ham or Everton level, we are not wrong to hope for another golden generation, though.
 
Rozay said:
Personally, only Greenwood and Laird so far look like the most ‘United-level’ young players at the club to me.
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My assessment at the start of last season, albeit I think a good premier league level is better atm compared to the average level of the first team players.

Levitt is a good passer, Garner is a bit of everything. Both lack some physicality, so a season or two on loan in the championship would do wonders for their physical and mental readiness.
Brandon Williams is one I'm really unsure about. As of now, it is more effort than brains, so not really sure how good he is. Would like to see him a little more composed in his involvements. Far to willing to go into 50-50 both off and on the ball... Not a good trait.

Gomes must play in a possession-based team to be really effective. Chong is another counter-attacking specialist that cannot do much else.
 
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