wow, come on lads, don't wobble now, keep the faith, i've seen enough YouTube videos to know that Sancho is the best RW in the world and will solve our RW issue, can't wait for us to sign him
Jadon Sancho | £72.9M fee agreed
- Thread starter Damien
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This is actually a bit of a myth. One of the defining features of that side was the structural discipline our forwards had.
True
You forgot the
Pogba's unlikely to be in midfield for games that matter if McFred are available (never mind if we sign anyone else), he's too risky when the teams press us and he tries to dribble out of DM position in our own half.
Plus, the actual point that I was making is that we have plenty of depth for the wings as is. For 80m I'd rather we improve 1 or 2 positions in the strating XI instead of adding more depth at our most congested spots.
If we sort out our DM/CM and CB situations and we have nothing else to spend money on, then feck it why not.
Agree with all 3.
Dan James will have to be sold if we buy Sancho.
I have my doubts that he is even as good as 18 year old Diallo and all those minutes should go to Amad.
Martial will get tonnes of minutes rotating with Cavani.
Fair enough, dont know much about him.
I mean, I agree with that. In fact, it would be true of any top quality forward player. They can still score or create from the right. It just isn’t optimal for Sancho, not like the left is.
To answer your question, I think my answer would be ‘yes’. I think many fans have rightly gotten it into their heads that we need a RW for so many years, that they are unable to acknowledge what Greenwood has done there over the last 18 months or so. The position simply isn’t as weak as it used to be, and it isn’t some sort of urgent crisis position that we so desperately need to move Greenwood out of his current role.
We can say that we should start moving Greenwood centrally this season, but as it stands, Martial and Cavani are still here. I’m not sure we want Greenwood to go from getting the football he has been getting over the last 18 months to becoming your typical 15 games youngster.
Even if Mase was to start getting the odd game centrally, then that presents the opportunity to start giving Amad the odd game on the right. His own workload needs to increase. Given he is not as ready as Greenwood, the two of them in that role is sufficient for me. If we WERE to buy a RW, then it would be as an option, someone to add depth, for me, not our most expensive purchase this summer, as the position doesn’t require it. Greenwood himself is an £80m forward. And whatever it is people may feel his position will be when he is 25, he has earned that reputation as a RW thus far. And by the same token, if we are to buy a winger because we feel RW is not Greenwood’s long term position, then I would say that I don’t believe it to be Sancho’s either.
Personally, I think the team would be far better spared committing our huge money to where we currently have average footballers in our team, rather than where we currently have what I believe to be one of our best, and one of the best young players in the game. The centre of our midfield and defence are far weaker positions than the right of our attack for me. I’d also happily spend the money on Haaland over Sancho too, as I think he gives us a 30 goal striker. I don’t see what Sancho gives us that we don’t have, and I don’t see Sancho as much better than Greenwood, either in the present or in the long term.
Lastly, I was very much in favour of signing Sancho last summer, and posted to that effect. However, we since signed Amad, and I think the logical thing is to have a good look at him before deciding whether to go back for Sancho. I am confident that some patience and investment (of time) applied with Diallo will pay off in the long run, and as a leftie, I think he is a more natural fit. I do see Sancho as super though, and if Rashford wasn’t such the immovable man on the left, I’d be more open to it. Right now, it seems like an unnecessary purchase to me, with little other rationale than ‘when good players are on the market, you have to love for them’.
It's a question of quality though. If we're rotating for a midweek Champions League do we trust Dan James? Martial hasn't done anything much for us as a winger for a couple of seasons either.
If we have to pick and choose Pogba's games like that I'd suggest he likely won't be here much longer. There's already a bit of a question mark over whether he wants to stay.
We shouldn't be turning away good players when the opportunity arises to sign them. Sancho is a very good one, and there's still plenty capacity for him to get better. I don't think his signing should come at the expense of a CB or DM but if that is the case our recruitment policy needs looking at.
We played 61 games last season (highest in Europe, tied with City).
Pogba should be playing in midfield as a 8, in 40 of those games. We need to solve the 6 problem irrespective of what we do elsewhere.
We will get back some of the Sancho money by selling Dan James to Leeds
The drop in intensity as quality from Cavani to Martial will be painful.
It's a common theme for him with England and in the CL with Dortmund.
To see why he gets such high stats for Dortmund - just go and watch all his goals for 20/21 on youtube. You'll be amazed by the amount of free space he has for most of his goals.
It's why I advocate for paying a bit more for Grealish, or going for a cheaper alternative. £80m+ is crazy high for someone with as much risk as Sancho.
Dortmund can afford to give these players mins because there's no pressure on them. They're never expected to win the title so as long as they get CL they've achieved enough. They also have a stronger squad and more money than the German clubs around them. At Utd we don't have that privilege. The competition is way higher at the top of the Prem where up to 8 teams could realistically challenge for top 4 depending on luck and injuries. For evidence of the pressure at Utd, just consider that we finished 2nd and there are still loads of people that want Ole sacked.
Greenwood is easily one of the best young talents in the world but you can just look at how poor he was for the 1st half of the season as evidence that you can't put that much pressure on youngsters to perform at a club with so much ambition. I actually really like Amad and think he looks really exciting, but he should be in a situation where he can come in and out of the team next season rather than being forced to be a starter on our rw. Also, while Greenwood might be performing extremely well on the rw, make no mistake about it, Greenwood is a striker and he always has been. For all the talk of Sancho not being a natural rw he is definitely more natural in the position than Mason is. I would expect we'll see Greenwood rotating more up front with Cavani next season.
Fair enough. I def agree with the point on cm and cb, they both need to be addressed regardless of what happens with Sancho. I just have concerns after seeing how much Greenwood struggled for large parts of last season. I think I'd be more open to the idea of going forward with Mason and Amad had we not seen so recently how that can backfire.
This thread has become depressing, this should get everyone back in the mood.
I would still like to think that Martial can maintain that for small stretches of 10-15 games as he did after the restart in 20.
Daniel James? 
Who cares.
Sancho just turned 21. That's one of the reasons why I want him. It's still possible for him to go up a gear since the Bundesliga stats aren't going to happen in the PL right away. Who cares if he doesn't produce at that level yet. I don't see the rush. The goal is to eventually win the biggest trophies. It's all about what gives us the best chance of winning the biggest trophies. If another player gives us a better chance next season, but it's still not as great of a chance as in 2-3 years, why would you not choose the latter? And the short term will still mean we end up a better side with him than last season anyways. It's not like we're buying Amad v2.
Who cares.Sancho just turned 21. That's one of the reasons why I want him. It's still possible for him to go up a gear since the Bundesliga stats aren't going to happen in the PL right away. Who cares if he doesn't produce at that level yet. I don't see the rush. The goal is to eventually win the biggest trophies. It's all about what gives us the best chance of winning the biggest trophies. If another player gives us a better chance next season, but it's still not as great of a chance as in 2-3 years, why would you not choose the latter? And the short term will still mean we end up a better side with him than last season anyways. It's not like we're buying Amad v2.
And what about the other 20 games?
You see the #6 position can get solved different ways. Pep and Klopp play possession and high press football and just want someone to hoover up at #6.
Other teams play with a deep playmaker at #6, in the base of midfield, and then a defensive midfielder who chases the ball. Couple of examples:
- Chelsea: Jorginho at #6 and Kante as an #8 chasing and pressing
- Real: Kroos at #6 and Casemiro at #8 chasing and pressing
In other words, you can solve the problem by buying a deep playmaker and letting Fred chase the ball and press. Rather than buying a hoover. And that can work for more games. Especially since buying a defensive #6 won't suddenly stop Rashford and Bruno losing possession as often as they do. We don't have a team that's good at retaining possession.
I'm non-plussed about selling James though.
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If you have concerns about that, get ready to have panic attacks when Sancho struggles to adapt and replicate his Bundesliga form. Especially if he's playing on the right.
Not to mention before the restart. He’s caf public enemy right now, but I don’t see why he will perform better than he has this season going forward. I’m sure he’ll give Cavani a fight next term.
That’s fair, but in terms of trajectory, I think it is logical to expect Mason to be continually improving and bettering each season, rather than going the other way. Especially as Amad starts to improve himself, which in turn should push him on.
Also, Sancho isn’t 26 himself. It is entirely reasonable that he too will struggle to simply extrapolate his YouTube ‘best bits’ from Dortmund straight into the United team, and quite possible that once he has been afforded the ‘first season’s grace’, Mason himself, after 3 years in the United team has become a different animal himself. In terms of age, you can throw a hat over Amad, Mase and Sancho. We’re talking 3 RW options aged between 19 and 21. Any advantage one has over the other could quickly dissap
I don't expect Sancho to immediately match his Dortmund numbers but at the very least it would add another option who has shown he can perform at that level. Bundesliga isn't quite as good as PL but you act like it's at the level of the Championship when in reality it's still one of the strongest leagues in the world. As much as I like Amad he hasn't shown he can perform at this level consistently yet and is obviously a much bigger risk to rely on than Sancho.
If Sancho is struggling we can bring in Mason and vice versa based on form. We also have the option to ease Amad in. The only alternative we had to Mason during his bad patch was James and he's just not good enough for this level. You are majorly underrating Sancho's ability.
I'm one of the most adamant believers in us needing a true midfield talent to help us dominate games with passing, technique, etc... The problem is those players aren't easy to find and we aren't likely to get that player this summer. We need to be patient to get that player or produce one internally. Get the best talents period. Sancho is one of those talents who could potentially be our left winger for 10 years. If he ends up benching Rashford, then so be it. It just means our left side is even better than what it already was, and Rashford will be one of our best players off the bench. Or it could mean one day we start with Rashford on the left, give Greenwood rest on the right, and play Sancho on the right. Eventually Greenwood is going to have to play through the middle. Same with giving Amad minutes on the right and in Bruno's spot.
I don't think Ole will give Rashford the starting spot without a fight. I think his surgery makes it an easier decision for Ole if anything. If Sancho produces in that time, I think Rashford will have to prove he's the best option.
I don't think Ole will give Rashford the starting spot without a fight. I think his surgery makes it an easier decision for Ole if anything. If Sancho produces in that time, I think Rashford will have to prove he's the best option.
I was just debating the point where a player has to play on his stronger side. Foden right now for City plays better on the left. It just depends on the role you want from that player. Sancho is a creative player. He doesn't need to be an inside forward because we have Rashford for that. He can have a huge impact from either side, it just depends on how we use him and his role in the build up and the players around him.
But yes, it is entirely debatable from people who have also watched him more than a handful of times. He's equally capable and effective on either side. He's had an entire great season on the right, same on the left, and then time splitting on either. He's just versatile which is perfect for us.
Well I'm not debating that. Sancho is obviously more ready than Amad, Amad is where Sancho was when he moved to BVB. But still, we did sign Amad for 30m only 6 months ago, so what was the point of that if we're gonna bring in Sancho ?
My main 2 concerns about the Sancho transfer are since the start are.
- A lot of money for a position we have no pressing need any more
- His future might be ne LW more
- Potentially stifle Amad's development and show to young talents they are better off going elsewhere for their development.
PS. The alternative to Mason was also Rashford on the RW and Pogba on the left. Even before Amad.
Among Top 5 best young players on world football in past 3 seasons.
Those 80 ish mln for Sancho are not for ready made player, if he came here we would get more than decade out of him he would bring lot of commercial value to the club not to mention that he is bloody good football player, even if he is not here for his whole career we still get a chance to have few years and then sell him for a lot of money.
You are acting like he is ready made 29 years old player and have 4-5 years at best at the highest level and there is no chance we will get anything for his sell after that. So we pay for what we see without any chance he gets better.
80 mln for more than 10 years is great deal for player already at his level even if that is his peak game, but he will get better.
To give you some perspective
James Garner who is suppose to be our midfield general in coming years is playing in Championship not being even close to Premierleague football main role even in relegation battle team. And is younger less then a year than Jadon, who Was born in 2000 already has 137 matches 50 goals and 64 assist in one of the best teams and Leagues in Europe.
Those 80 ish mln for Sancho are not for ready made player, if he came here we would get more than decade out of him he would bring lot of commercial value to the club not to mention that he is bloody good football player, even if he is not here for his whole career we still get a chance to have few years and then sell him for a lot of money.
You are acting like he is ready made 29 years old player and have 4-5 years at best at the highest level and there is no chance we will get anything for his sell after that. So we pay for what we see without any chance he gets better.
80 mln for more than 10 years is great deal for player already at his level even if that is his peak game, but he will get better.
To give you some perspective
James Garner who is suppose to be our midfield general in coming years is playing in Championship not being even close to Premierleague football main role even in relegation battle team. And is younger less then a year than Jadon, who Was born in 2000 already has 137 matches 50 goals and 64 assist in one of the best teams and Leagues in Europe.
Not sure why everyone is having a go at him. Decent performance and if that shot goes in the narrative is suddenly different and he's amazing.
People watch a player once and suddenly decide he's not very good
I'm sure they would have said the same about Kane in the last friendly too.
It's short minded and certainly no surprise. I've said for a while now to not rely on player recommendations from the forum.
Sancho is one of the best players for his age and position in world football. The club isn't glittered with owners who are willing to invest, therefore the money spent should only be towards priorities. Right forward, centre half and a defensive midfielder. Coincidentally these are positions the likes of Grealish has no influence in so why he's mentioned so often is baffling.
This very flawed argument comes up again and again.
- There is no Dortmund system. I which it existed but there isn’t one.
a) Dortmund winning the BL with “Heavy- Metal-Football” is almost 10 years ago. Klopps team relied on very strong counterpressing and counter attacking football. Fast low passes through the middle, or long Passes from (Sahin and Hummels) to the wings - b) Tuchels team on the other hand played a very possession-based game. Almost Barcelona levels of possession. They relied on the fullbacks running behind and on shipping balls behind the defense.
- c) Bosz had a strange playing style with high possession but also a very high and dangerous midfield pressing. He was sacked before the winter break.
- d) Stöger was just a caretaker, very defensive playing style
- e) Favre had a style of deep possession and very fast counter attacks. His defensive playing style relied less on pressing and more on standing deep and absorbing pressure.
- f) Tersic style is more about pressing and less about possession, a little like Klopps latest style, when he got Dortmund to sixth after being last during the winter break.
- There is only one thing remaining through all these years. Dortmund has been the second-best team in the BL with the second-best players. Against 16 teams Dortmund are favorites and are dictating the game. Similar to United.
- That’s just Dortmund. United also had a lot of different managers, philosophies, and systems during that period. Moyes, van Gaal, Mou etc.
- The couches, especially Klopp and Tuchel, are exceptional in carefully crafting a specific role for a player. Kagawa is a prime example for that. I think its very hard to evaluate the level of a player, with all his weaknesses, when the system is so well crafted around him that you rarely see it in a game.
- The players:
a) Kagawa was just not made for the PL. He is not really athletic, he can’t shoot, he is not pacey. He has a smart decision making and is an amazing pressing player. But really a Klopp system player
b) Weigl is a very niche player. He works only in a very possession-based style of gam. He has never been fast, but injuries had made him just to slow for the highest level. It’s odd to include him, he has been sold, because it didn’t work out in Dortmunds system.
c) Mikey is a special case. He is not a system player in any way, he is borderline world class on his day, just a very introvert, almost autistic person, who couldn’t handle any pressure. Him playing under Mou was a disaster waiting to happen. Prime Mikey in Tuchels Chelsea would be absolutely phenomenal. I think wrong decisions wasted his best years.
d) Can is just a very limited player. Was okay playing for pool. Okay in Dortmund but not on CL level. Single handily lost them the games vs city.
One reason that Sancho is so good on the left is the left back. Guererro is one of the most underrated players in football. Guerrero is not providing with; he just dribbles into the half spaces like sancho and both beating players with one-twos.
I don't think United is the right team for Sancho. He is not the player for your playstyle. That being said, maybe the next manager might make the best of sancho.
That’s a solid hardworking performance. Cracked one off the bar. Tracked back. Looked to always be showing for it. He’s going to be a top player at PL level over the next few years. I think he’s going to end up being our best winger in a long time.
All that matters is he improves our options and is one of the best 21 year olds in the world.
The fact he can play left and right is a positive not a negative.
Especially with Rashfords form and talk of him getting surgery
The fact he can play left and right is a positive not a negative.
Especially with Rashfords form and talk of him getting surgery
That Garner comparison is extremely silly.
If we were to sell him, we would probably get 10-15m for him.
And he is a central midfielder, that’s the position where experience really matters and everyone takes a long time to develop.
If we were to sell him, we would probably get 10-15m for him.
And he is a central midfielder, that’s the position where experience really matters and everyone takes a long time to develop.
With Sancho and assuming Diallo develops as expected, we will have 5 players for 3 positions.
Bruno, Greenwood, Rashford, Sancho, Diallo.
In no world is that overkill.
Bruno, Greenwood, Rashford, Sancho, Diallo.
In no world is that overkill.
Agreed. McTominay was lucky that Mourinho was using him as a point so he was afforded enough games to improve. Even then, it took him a couple years before fans accepted him.
but we would never sell him for that and would want at least 30-40 mln just like Sancho at current level would be around 50 but BvB want 2x that because of potential.
I had serious last year about the price. Now I just have serious reservations about the player.
It certainly is debatable. I've watched a lot of him since he went to Dortmund and I really think you're overstating the impact of him playing left vs right. He was excellent the 2nd half of this season on the left, but I've seen him play brilliant on the right in previous seasons.
Especially given Greenwood and Rashford will get games as a striker also.
Didn't manage to beat a single player once. It is an issue - we already have two players out wide that don't dribble. Sancho's got excellent ball control and passing but his tendency against teams that sit back is to pass it back. I really want us to sign someone like Mane, Nani, that can stretch play and not another attacking midfielder. He's better than Kagawa and Mikhi but he's a similar style of player to them.
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