Jadon Sancho | £72.9M fee agreed

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RedRonaldo said:
Good observation, which begs the question, would he be a good fit for us? Ole likes to play conservative football with McFred too, you know.
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I wouldnt compare Ole with Southgate. Ole is still stuck with players from LVG and Jose eras which explains why he is using the McFred combo --- and why he is looking at the Declan amongst many other changes he is trying to implement.

Southgate has the pick of the litter and choose to play with that approach.
 
Bondi77 said:
Yes, but the y were outstanding for their clubs in ENGLAND and we have obviously not seen Sancho do that as he has not played here yet and that us the sticking point....maybe he will shine and maybe he won't but we will not know that until he has at least played a season here and until that happens this thread will go around and around and around :wenger:
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Performing well in the English Premier League has no correlation what so ever to performing for the England national team.
 
Sphaero said:
I gotta be honest here, every time this left/right wing argument comes up I question if people actually watch Dortmund play or just look at the position on the spread sheet

For over a decade now and under multiple coaches (be it Klopp, Tuchel, Favre or Terzic) one trademark for Dortmunds attack was always fluid positions in the final third. The offensive midfielders, especially the wide players are not supposed to hold their flanks the whole time (that is largely the job of the full/wingbacks) but are supposed to roam and interchange frequently. Nowhere can this be seen as clearly as when Sancho and Reus share the pitch. They cross each other frequently, creating overlap on a side to shift attention of the opposing defenders and open spaces that way. They also don´t have a side they favour here to lessen predictability which leads to a very balanced offensive approach. Over the last season they build up the exact same percentages of attacking plays over both sides (38%), which is actually rather uncommon as teams usually prefer one side over the other (United for example builds up more over the left side). Sancho plays the side where he can have the most impact depending on the situation.

As for this whole argument about Sancho only being truly effective on the counter and being predicted to struggle against deep defenses. This might come as news to people who still equate Dortmund to the pressing and transition machine it was under Klopp, but they have not been a primarily counter based team for a long time now. Sure, they are able to punish harshly on the break due to the pace the attack has and enough players who are capable to play accurate long passes, but this is still not their dominant way to score goals. They averaged 60 % possession last season (level with Leipzig and behind Bayern in that regard in the league) and played the highest number of passes in the Bundesliga with around 620 per game (that is nearly 50 more than United averaged last season). These are not statistics for a counter team, but a team that is tasked in the majority of the games to be the active creator of the play and break open defenses.

Jadon Sancho has been extremely valuable in that regard. He is a creative player with good (but not outstanding) acceleration, exceptional close control, skilled in 1v1 and has a very good eye for opened passing and running paths. Another often overlooked part of his ability to create space is his very smart off the ball movement which has improved greatly in his time with Dortmund (I believe that he learned a lot in that regard from Reus, who is a master in that). He often makes (or fakes) runs that demand the attention of defenders which open options for his teammates, the largest benefector of this being Haaland who directly moves in that space to create danger.

In short, Sanchos entire skill set is made for breaking up defensive lines.
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Thanks for detailed post
 
The Boy said:
I'm genuinely interested in how Sancho works out, the BVB fans in this thread clearly rate him very highly, I'm not sure why some Utd fans are a bit meh about him.
I haven't really watched BVB outside the Champions League, but if he is a good as some are saying, you lot could be in for a real treat once he settles and get used to his new team mates. There will be a need for patience though if he doesn't score or assist a hat trick in his first two games for you!
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We're still scarred from prior transfers failing.

That said, I believe Sancho would be a huge success for us.
 
HailtotheKing said:
Sounds familiar. So what makes you think he'll thrive in Ole's "system" then?
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Ole's system is entirely different from the way Southgate set's up England. For one, Ole plays to Box to box Midfielders in the double pivot and encourages his fullbacks to push high. Ole might not play systematic football like Pep but he is miles ahead of Southgate in that regard.
 
Have said it a million times the player himself is never worth the money we are paying but our RW has been non-existing for years that makes him worth to us.
I remember when Rashford was playing well and him and Shaw where linking up well but anytime we switched it too the right it was AWB who isn’t the best at going forward on his own as Greenwood kept moving inside.
There was one game think it was Everton where they let us attack down the right and covered a extra body on the left as they knew we were useless down the right
 
Sphaero said:
I gotta be honest here, every time this left/right wing argument comes up I question if people actually watch Dortmund play or just look at the position on the spread sheet

For over a decade now and under multiple coaches (be it Klopp, Tuchel, Favre or Terzic) one trademark for Dortmunds attack was always fluid positions in the final third. The offensive midfielders, especially the wide players are not supposed to hold their flanks the whole time (that is largely the job of the full/wingbacks) but are supposed to roam and interchange frequently. Nowhere can this be seen as clearly as when Sancho and Reus share the pitch. They cross each other frequently, creating overlap on a side to shift attention of the opposing defenders and open spaces that way. They also don´t have a side they favour here to lessen predictability which leads to a very balanced offensive approach. Over the last season they build up the exact same percentages of attacking plays over both sides (38%), which is actually rather uncommon as teams usually prefer one side over the other (United for example builds up more over the left side). Sancho plays the side where he can have the most impact depending on the situation.

As for this whole argument about Sancho only being truly effective on the counter and being predicted to struggle against deep defenses. This might come as news to people who still equate Dortmund to the pressing and transition machine it was under Klopp, but they have not been a primarily counter based team for a long time now. Sure, they are able to punish harshly on the break due to the pace the attack has and enough players who are capable to play accurate long passes, but this is still not their dominant way to score goals. They averaged 60 % possession last season (level with Leipzig and behind Bayern in that regard in the league) and played the highest number of passes in the Bundesliga with around 620 per game (that is nearly 50 more than United averaged last season). These are not statistics for a counter team, but a team that is tasked in the majority of the games to be the active creator of the play and break open defenses.

Jadon Sancho has been extremely valuable in that regard. He is a creative player with good (but not outstanding) acceleration, exceptional close control, skilled in 1v1 and has a very good eye for opened passing and running paths. Another often overlooked part of his ability to create space is his very smart off the ball movement which has improved greatly in his time with Dortmund (I believe that he learned a lot in that regard from Reus, who is a master in that). He often makes (or fakes) runs that demand the attention of defenders which open options for his teammates, the largest benefector of this being Haaland who directly moves in that space to create danger.

In short, Sanchos entire skill set is made for breaking up defensive lines.
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This should be stickied. But, without a doubt it'll be overlooked and the same rhetoric pumped out over and over again for as long as this transfer remains unresolved.
 
Sphaero said:
I gotta be honest here, every time this left/right wing argument comes up I question if people actually watch Dortmund play or just look at the position on the spread sheet

For over a decade now and under multiple coaches (be it Klopp, Tuchel, Favre or Terzic) one trademark for Dortmunds attack was always fluid positions in the final third. The offensive midfielders, especially the wide players are not supposed to hold their flanks the whole time (that is largely the job of the full/wingbacks) but are supposed to roam and interchange frequently. Nowhere can this be seen as clearly as when Sancho and Reus share the pitch. They cross each other frequently, creating overlap on a side to shift attention of the opposing defenders and open spaces that way. They also don´t have a side they favour here to lessen predictability which leads to a very balanced offensive approach. Over the last season they build up the exact same percentages of attacking plays over both sides (38%), which is actually rather uncommon as teams usually prefer one side over the other (United for example builds up more over the left side). Sancho plays the side where he can have the most impact depending on the situation.

As for this whole argument about Sancho only being truly effective on the counter and being predicted to struggle against deep defenses. This might come as news to people who still equate Dortmund to the pressing and transition machine it was under Klopp, but they have not been a primarily counter based team for a long time now. Sure, they are able to punish harshly on the break due to the pace the attack has and enough players who are capable to play accurate long passes, but this is still not their dominant way to score goals. They averaged 60 % possession last season (level with Leipzig and behind Bayern in that regard in the league) and played the highest number of passes in the Bundesliga with around 620 per game (that is nearly 50 more than United averaged last season). These are not statistics for a counter team, but a team that is tasked in the majority of the games to be the active creator of the play and break open defenses.

Jadon Sancho has been extremely valuable in that regard. He is a creative player with good (but not outstanding) acceleration, exceptional close control, skilled in 1v1 and has a very good eye for opened passing and running paths. Another often overlooked part of his ability to create space is his very smart off the ball movement which has improved greatly in his time with Dortmund (I believe that he learned a lot in that regard from Reus, who is a master in that). He often makes (or fakes) runs that demand the attention of defenders which open options for his teammates, the largest benefector of this being Haaland who directly moves in that space to create danger.

In short, Sanchos entire skill set is made for breaking up defensive lines.
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Very good post
 
432JuanMata said:
Have said it a million times the player himself is never worth the money we are paying but our RW has been non-existing for years that makes him worth to us.
I remember when Rashford was playing well and him and Shaw where linking up well but anytime we switched it too the right it was AWB who isn’t the best at going forward on his own as Greenwood kept moving inside.
There was one game think it was Everton where they let us attack down the right and covered a extra body on the left as they knew we were useless down the right
Click to expand...

Sancho is more than a RW.
 
Sphaero said:
I gotta be honest here, every time this left/right wing argument comes up I question if people actually watch Dortmund play or just look at the position on the spread sheet

For over a decade now and under multiple coaches (be it Klopp, Tuchel, Favre or Terzic) one trademark for Dortmunds attack was always fluid positions in the final third. The offensive midfielders, especially the wide players are not supposed to hold their flanks the whole time (that is largely the job of the full/wingbacks) but are supposed to roam and interchange frequently. Nowhere can this be seen as clearly as when Sancho and Reus share the pitch. They cross each other frequently, creating overlap on a side to shift attention of the opposing defenders and open spaces that way. They also don´t have a side they favour here to lessen predictability which leads to a very balanced offensive approach. Over the last season they build up the exact same percentages of attacking plays over both sides (38%), which is actually rather uncommon as teams usually prefer one side over the other (United for example builds up more over the left side). Sancho plays the side where he can have the most impact depending on the situation.

As for this whole argument about Sancho only being truly effective on the counter and being predicted to struggle against deep defenses. This might come as news to people who still equate Dortmund to the pressing and transition machine it was under Klopp, but they have not been a primarily counter based team for a long time now. Sure, they are able to punish harshly on the break due to the pace the attack has and enough players who are capable to play accurate long passes, but this is still not their dominant way to score goals. They averaged 60 % possession last season (level with Leipzig and behind Bayern in that regard in the league) and played the highest number of passes in the Bundesliga with around 620 per game (that is nearly 50 more than United averaged last season). These are not statistics for a counter team, but a team that is tasked in the majority of the games to be the active creator of the play and break open defenses.

Jadon Sancho has been extremely valuable in that regard. He is a creative player with good (but not outstanding) acceleration, exceptional close control, skilled in 1v1 and has a very good eye for opened passing and running paths. Another often overlooked part of his ability to create space is his very smart off the ball movement which has improved greatly in his time with Dortmund (I believe that he learned a lot in that regard from Reus, who is a master in that). He often makes (or fakes) runs that demand the attention of defenders which open options for his teammates, the largest benefector of this being Haaland who directly moves in that space to create danger.

In short, Sanchos entire skill set is made for breaking up defensive lines.
Click to expand...
Dortmund's system is precisely the problem. It's so fundamentally different from how Utd have operated and our previous failed BVB signings are testament to that. Add to that the fact that most top wingers especially the playmaking type are better positioned cutting inside onto their stronger foot, and it does seem a risk to buy Sancho for a huge sum mainly to play on the RW.

I'm sure you have confidence in your club getting the best out of attackers with the system you play but we can't say the same, hence the apprehension. From every angle you look at it besides the muppet one, the concerns are logical and valid.
 
Isotope said:
This kind of contradicting. England and United are pretty similar on their style and setup. Why would Sancho fit in at United then?
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Now this is a valid question/concern, but one you would genuinely hope we are not going to fail in supplying him with the means of performing to his best, which begins with addressing the full-back situation and hopefully getting in a central midfielder on his side of the pitch who can play effortless combination football and not look like a startled rabbit when asked to give and go.

I think the main thing would be to get the player in and work on the other issues at a later date if they can't all be sorted in a single window. It would also give either the full-back or midfielder (you'd like to think we get one from two positions sorted this window) who hasn't been upgraded a chance to stake their claim.

Wan Bissaka will have so many chances to affect play with Sancho, if he's up to the task. I have my doubts and wouldn't hesitate to replace him with a proper attacking full-back, but central midfield is just as much of a pressing issue so feel he has more grace than those in the middle of the pitch.

Outside of that, Cavani is the best off the ball running striker in the world; Greenwood and Bruno are more willing to play intricate football than what we see from England's players so even in our forward area, it's a better fit than what Sancho gets for England where Kane never makes dynamic forward or interjecting runs, and nobody wants to play short-passing football instead of kick-and-rush. Grealish, Bellingham and Sancho most likely won't get a run out together for anything other than throwaway minutes, so the one potentially dangerous passing unit that could unlock opponents will not be utilised. Southgate is miles behind Ole in that regard as Ole works with the personnel at his disposal and does not get a Bellingham or Grealish to play where Southgate simply doesn't have the nerve or competence to even attempt to use an expansive unit instead of safety first grouping who rely on forwards flanking who run 'hard yards' like some NFL game.
 
Isotope said:
This kind of contradicting. England and United are pretty similar on their style and setup. Why would Sancho fit in at United then?
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They’re really not. United are a fast paced team that score for fun but have a weakness in defensive set pieces. England on the other hand just keep possession and refuse to pass forward at times even when the pass is completely open, and are fairly good on set pieces. Just because we also had a few drab draws towards the end of the season doesn’t mean we have the same style and setup.
 
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marktan said:
Your right in his pass and move style of play, the reason I say he'll pass it backwards because against the very tight defences with two banks of four he will be forced to do so, and has done so in the past. When you have him up against 2 defenders in front of him, and Wan Bissaka to the side, what options does he have? He can pass it inside to Bruno, but if he makes a forward run he'll be easily covered by the defenders. We've seen that style of play play out a million times with the likes of Greenwood and Mata who predominantly look to play the pass.
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I'm not going to dispute the Wan Bissaka concern, because I have it, too. I would say that I would like to have faith that we aren't just blinding pursuing Sancho with no plan or idea of how to optimise him. It's been a move in the making ever since we heard he was unhappy at City, with more than enough time to sort things out, not purely for his arrival, but for the betterment of the team as a whole, so I expect an attacking full-back and a proper midfielder to be added to the team over the next two windows if not this one.

Even as is, without optimisation, Sancho is levels above what we have operating on the right - and the kind of runs other can make in anticipation of him finding them with passes, or linking up with them to force overloads and attention away from other areas of the pitch - and as a baseline, is a no-brainer to get given equivalent individualistic talent to him (Dembele in particular) is not available.

Besides, we need more creators and thinkers in this team as the more of them you have out there, the more problems the opposition have to cater for, which in turn keeps them honest and unable to double and triple up on individuals. Sancho on the right with Bruno and Cavani hovering, automatically gives our strong left flank (from Shaw and Pogba through to whichever forward) more chances to impact the game.
 
We don't play a similar style to England. Our fullbacks are further up the pitch and our attack is fluid. The only reason it looks similar is how poor we are in possession. I even think England are better at keeping the ball. There is also a disconnect between how Ole says he wants us to play and how we actually play.
What I do know is Sancho is a team player that improves the players around him cause he plays with his head up. He is very unlike Greenwood and Rashford in that sense. But above all, he excels in 1 v 1 situations. That's the kind of attacker we need.
 
Sphaero on the previous Dortmund signings
He'sRaldo said:
Dortmund's system is precisely the problem. It's so fundamentally different from how Utd have operated and our previous failed BVB signings are testament to that. Add to that the fact that most top wingers especially the playmaking type are better positioned cutting inside onto their stronger foot, and it does seem a risk to buy Sancho for a huge sum mainly to play on the RW.

I'm sure you have confidence in your club getting the best out of attackers with the system you play but we can't say the same, hence the apprehension. From every angle you look at it besides the muppet one, the concerns are logical and valid.
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I don´t believe that.

Kagawa was a systematic and tactical misfit, but this came down more to the Japaneses inability to adept (he only ever excelled as CAM and nowhere else) and his dependence on a playing system with a lot of off the ball movement, which United did not provide at that time. Sancho in contrast is far more versatile with similar degrees of productivity from both sides. Sancho is also the person who runs the system he excels in instead of just being a benefactor of it. Kagawa was a system player who furthers a system, Sancho is a play maker who makes it happen in the first place. Signing Sancho would undoubtly change Uniteds attacking approach (the most obvious way will be to balance out Uniteds heavily left leaning approach), because that is what play makers do.

Mkhitaryan had nothing to do with the system. The guy is mentally simply not cut out for elite club football, which is something that had been predicted by pretty much everyone on here who closely followed his entire tenure at Dortmund. The guy already struggled massively at times with pressure in the far more protected and less exposed environment that was Borussia Dortmund.
 
Adisa said:
We don't play a similar style to England. Our fullbacks are further up the pitch and our attack is fluid. The only reason it looks similar is how poor we are in possession. I even think England are better at keeping the ball. There is also a disconnect between how Ole says he wants us to play and how we actually play.
What I do know is Sancho is a team player that improves the players around him cause he plays with his head up. He is very unlike Greenwood and Rashford in that sense. But above all, he excels in 1 v 1 situations. That's the kind of attacker we need.
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Great post, especially the bit in bold. There's absolutely no comparison between us and England.
 
I don't really know if this is something the clubs take into consideration - but let's say Sancho is given a contract worth £300.000 (just for sake of argument) - if United sign him July 1st compared to June 1st - they will have saved well over £1 million in wages alone. So I assume this could actually be a huge discussion in a club - the manage wants the signings in as early as possible, the club want them much later to save £3-4 million in wages.
 
lysglimt said:
I don't really know if this is something the clubs take into consideration - but let's say Sancho is given a contract worth £300.000 (just for sake of argument) - if United sign him July 1st compared to June 1st - they will have saved well over £1 million in wages alone. So I assume this could actually be a huge discussion in a club - the manage wants the signings in as early as possible, the club want them much later to save £3-4 million in wages.
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In regard to this, it's a pretty interesting situation given the players who are on international duty won't be back for pre-season for a while yet. Usually, the concern is getting new players acclimatised and in the squad to train ASAP, but this summer, you've got what? 2-3 weeks from tournament before the top players return?
 
Fortitude said:
Now this is a valid question/concern, but one you would genuinely hope we are not going to fail in supplying him with the means of performing to his best, which begins with addressing the full-back situation and hopefully getting in a central midfielder on his side of the pitch who can play effortless combination football and not look like a startled rabbit when asked to give and go.

I think the main thing would be to get the player in and work on the other issues at a later date if they can't all be sorted in a single window. It would also give either the full-back or midfielder (you'd like to think we get one from two positions sorted this window) who hasn't been upgraded a chance to stake their claim.

Wan Bissaka will have so many chances to affect play with Sancho, if he's up to the task. I have my doubts and wouldn't hesitate to replace him with a proper attacking full-back, but central midfield is just as much of a pressing issue so feel he has more grace than those in the middle of the pitch.

Outside of that, Cavani is the best off the ball running striker in the world; Greenwood and Bruno are more willing to play intricate football than what we see from England's players so even in our forward area, it's a better fit than what Sancho gets for England where Kane never makes dynamic forward or interjecting runs, and nobody wants to play short-passing football instead of kick-and-rush. Grealish, Bellingham and Sancho most likely won't get a run out together for anything other than throwaway minutes, so the one potentially dangerous passing unit that could unlock opponents will not be utilised. Southgate is miles behind Ole in that regard as Ole works with the personnel at his disposal and does not get a Bellingham or Grealish to play where Southgate simply doesn't have the nerve or competence to even attempt to use an expansive unit instead of safety first grouping who rely on forwards flanking who run 'hard yards' like some NFL game.
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THanks. Agreed that best attacking winger usually has a capable attacking FB on his side. It's never heard of otherwise.

My other concern is also Ole wants one of the winger to work hard on defensive duty. Just like Greenwood or James helping RB. If we have Rashford who so often as our counterattack outlet (thus mostly stay up the pitch on the left), does Sancho have that kind of Greenwood's/James workrate? would it effect his output?
 
Sphaero said:
I don´t believe that.

Kagawa was a systematic and tactical misfit, but this came down more to the Japaneses inability to adept (he only ever excelled as CAM and nowhere else) and his dependence on a playing system with a lot of off the ball movement, which United did not provide at that time. Sancho in contrast is far more versatile with similar degrees of productivity from both sides. Sancho is also the person who runs the system he excels in instead of just being a benefactor of it. Kagawa was a system player who furthers a system, Sancho is a play maker who makes it happen in the first place. Signing Sancho would undoubtly change Uniteds attacking approach (the most obvious way will be to balance out Uniteds heavily left leaning approach), because that is what play makers do.

Mkhitaryan had nothing to do with the system. The guy is mentally simply not cut out for elite club football, which is something that had been predicted by pretty much everyone on here who closely followed his entire tenure at Dortmund. The guy already struggled massively at times with pressure in the far more protected and less exposed environment that was Borussia Dortmund.
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Even going away from Dortmund specifically, the emphasis on the collective and the system is a cultural one in German football, and until recently it hasn't been that much of a thing in England. That's why players in Germany who shone more due to the system around them have not done as well elsewhere, and it's also the reason the why a lot of superb tactical coaches have emerged from there in recent years.

Basically we're taking into account the scenario in which a player is succeeding. If Sancho's good work on the right at BVB was as a right sided attacking mid playing in a 3-4-2-1 in front of an uber attacking wingback like Hakimi and beside a technical midfielder like Witsel, the question then becomes how well would he do out on the right wing proper, in front of Wan-Bissaka, beside Scott McTominay, and without the sort of movement and attacking intent that Dortmund's system demands?

If Sancho is plopped onto the right wing and expected to solve our creative issues without similar sort of systems to the one he's thrived in at Dortmund, I don't see it going very well. And that's doubly so since he's obviously more catered to the left as a creative winger cutting in to combine and execute on his stronger foot. Since he's a good player he'll do well but as we've seen with our previous expensive players, "well" won't be seen as good enough if we're buying him for a large fee.
 
Possession stats doesn't tell the whole story. It could just mean that Dortmund has players that's good on keeping possession. Team can be defensive or offensive by keeping possession.
 
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Isotope said:
THanks. Agreed that best attacking winger usually has a capable attacking FB on his side. It's never heard of otherwise.

My other concern is also Ole wants one of the winger to work hard on defensive duty. Just like Greenwood or James helping RB. If we have Rashford who so often as our counterattack outlet (thus mostly stay up the pitch on the left), does Sancho have that kind of Greenwood's/James workrate? would it effect his output?
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Sancho has a lot of work to do on his stamina; he fades quite a bit towards the end of games, but that might be something he improves upon as he settles into his matured body. He doesn't work intently going backward, but he will usher a man into others for them to sweep up. I wouldn't say he is lacking defensively as in won't attempt to track, but he isn't some machine who can put in a defensive shift and then burst back up the pitch to continue his forward duties. His tank would be rinsed under high, two-way load.

Truth of the matter is, with an attacking line like ours, and a pair of attacking full-backs, we should be on the front foot for the majority of games in a league campaign and giving the opposition cause for concern in really opening up or trying to force us back for concerted periods of time. Bissaka and one of Fred of McTominay should be enough to contain with Sancho ushering, and more importantly, on a counter-counter, you're then getting the more open play of the Bundesliga from Sancho on our break, which we have multiple seasons' worth of evidence that he is one of the best players in the world at turning a breakdown into a goal-scoring opportunity. Tactically, there's a lot for opposing managers to think about in over-committing to drive that kind of player back.

I think any notion that Sancho just comes here and is without fault or that there shouldn't be concerns about certain elements is not being objective, but when you look at the player and the set-up objectively, nearly ever concern can be fixed and the positives to what he brings far outweigh the negatives. In an open market, with every RM/RWF available for purchase, Sancho is still a no-brainer to be right at the top of that list behind only Messi and Mbappe outright, imo. He's of the level where you bring in the players who let him express himself to the fullest, sit back and enjoy the show, as opposed to a number of other right-sided attackers who you don't make compromises for and expect them to come in and work with what's here.
 
Why do we think Euros will make a difference? Dortmund aren't in the Euro's and we have apparently agreed the contract with Jadon, how does the player being in the Euro's affect our negotiation with the club?
 
Fortitude said:
Sancho has a lot of work to do on his stamina; he fades quite a bit towards the end of games, but that might be something he improves upon as he settles into his matured body. He doesn't work intently going backward, but he will usher a man into others for them to sweep up. I wouldn't say he is lacking defensively as in won't attempt to track, but he isn't some machine who can put in a defensive shift and then burst back up the pitch to continue his forward duties. His tank would be rinsed under high, two-way load.

Truth of the matter is, with an attacking line like ours, and a pair of attacking full-backs, we should be on the front foot for the majority of games in a league campaign and giving the opposition cause for concern in really opening up or trying to force us back for concerted periods of time. Bissaka and one of Fred of McTominay should be enough to contain with Sancho ushering, and more importantly, on a counter-counter, you're then getting the more open play of the Bundesliga from Sancho on our break, which we have multiple seasons' worth of evidence that he is one of the best players in the world at turning a breakdown into a goal-scoring opportunity. Tactically, there's a lot for opposing managers to think about in over-committing to drive that kind of player back.

I think any notion that Sancho just comes here and is without fault or that there shouldn't be concerns about certain elements is not being objective, but when you look at the player and the set-up objectively, nearly ever concern can be fixed and the positives to what he brings far outweigh the negatives. In an open market, with every RM/RWF available for purchase, Sancho is still a no-brainer to be right at the top of that list behind only Messi and Mbappe outright, imo. He's of the level where you bring in the players who let him express himself to the fullest, sit back and enjoy the show, as opposed to a number of other right-sided attackers who you don't make compromises for and expect them to come in and work with what's here.
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Concerns are there because I don't want us buying expensive player, then later on find out that he's just another player where only fully function well "at the right setup and players" of which we don't have or can't provide.

Although I agreed that Sancho's output numbers over the last 3 years is excellent. And he does it in one of the big League also. There's just not many player available like him, plus his age means there's a massive room for improvement also.
 
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lysglimt said:
Chelsea didn't think de Bruyne and Salah were good enough - just because Southgate doesn't think he is the best fit for his system, doesn't mean he isnt a quality player
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laughtersassassin said:
Nothing. Greenwoods not there due to an "injury".

Southgate is just weird worth certain players. Reluctant to play Grealish and refuses to give Sancho or Greenwood much of a go.

He is a manager that has his favourites and seems to find it very hard to look past that.
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So a clown then.
 
Ole's screen said:
United are a fast paced team that score for fun
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We scored 73 goals in the Premier League last season, and nine of those came against Southampton in a game they played with a man down from the 4th minute or something.

The idea of United "scoring for fun" is a MASSIVE overstatement.
 
Isotope said:
Concerns are there because I don't want us buying expensive player, then later on find out that he's just another player where only fully function well "at the right setup and players" of which we don't have or can't provide.

Although I agreed that Sancho's output numbers over the last 3 years is excellent. And he does it in one of the big League also. There's just not many player available like him, plus his age means there's a massive room for improvement also.
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He's not just another player - he's a truly exceptional talent of the level you build around, just as you would with others in that bracket of talent. We should be looking to upgrade midfield and full-back anyway, with or without Sancho here as they're not good enough.

Even if we don't optimise Sancho, he is considerably better than what we have here, but if you want the Ballon d'Or level threat, you have to make concessions for the player as he's not some individual dynamo who just does his thing with no care for the team, which is not as disappointing as it sounds as you'll struggle to find even top tier players whose game isn't wholly catered for to enable to be the best they can be.

Someone like a fit Dembele vs Sancho was the debate when the possibility was there of either one coming here. It's a solid debate to have as you have two polar opposite, but equally effective styles; one you just drop into a side and he'll do tremendous things, whilst being erratic, but all detached from the team construct/ethos, and the other, far more consistent and robust in what he offers, but needs more working parts to really show his best. But that's a redundancy as there isn't an [available] equivalent talent to Sancho in an individualistic measure given Dembele is a crock and Mbappe - who is part A and part B - is never coming here other than as an opponent.

I think what gets lost is that we are talking about one of the best right attackers in the world over the last 3 seasons. Concerns about the outlay and what we are are fair enough, but the way some people throw away what he's done to be worth what he is is ridiculous.
 
Siorac said:
We scored 73 goals in the Premier League last season, and nine of those came against Southampton in a game they played with a man down from the 4th minute or something.

The idea of United "scoring for fun" is a MASSIVE overstatement.
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United can score for fun. Those matches where it all comes together, and we make effective use of all the talent, United can score for fun as we have players with very high ability.

However those matches are once every while and there is little to no pattern as to why they occur. That's why it was so dumb that this forum were shaming fans who were critical of this after we beat Roma 6-2. That was probably the last good match of the season and proved the point of such fans.
 
Siorac said:
We scored 73 goals in the Premier League last season, and nine of those came against Southampton in a game they played with a man down from the 4th minute or something.

The idea of United "scoring for fun" is a MASSIVE overstatement.
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I think the right statement maybe "creating for fun". Our scoring/finishing is actually not that good.
 
Siorac said:
We scored 73 goals in the Premier League last season, and nine of those came against Southampton in a game they played with a man down from the 4th minute or something.

The idea of United "scoring for fun" is a MASSIVE overstatement.
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We scored 121 goals across all competitions. Our biggest amount in a single season since 2006/7...

I wouldn't say it's bad at all considering that our supposed first choice no.9 only contributed 7 to that total.

Also, how many 9-0s do you see? And do they happen with regularity when the opposition has a man sent off early? Can't think of many others off the top of my head, can you? How many times have we scored 5 or more in a game under Ole compared to the other managers we've had post-SAF?

We're by no means perfect, but we're a damn sight better than what you make us out to be IMO.
 
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