Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now

[cyberman]

You trash your reputation to create pressure on someone while also letting them know that there is no deadline?
I think people are too concerened with sinister PR games. Why would Woodward care what people think for a newscycle in August, it's the end result of the window that he and the club will eventually be judged on.

Dortmund didn't just accept the first good offer for Dembele and Aubameyang either, both players had to cause considerable disruption before they reconsidered.

Dortmund have done this before. There is no yes butting this away.
Im only stating facts. If this does go through we will get stories about how Dortmund strong armed United into giving them what they want, about how the offer was too good to refuse so well done us etc.
Just excuses as to why they sold a player they said they wouldn't sell.

 

[cyberman]

Apparently, that's what Sancho himself said:

"I love playing with this lot. It is a special bunch. We've got some special young players coming up. I am really happy to share the pitch with them and guide them. I was once in their shoes, playing with the seniors. I am happy for them."

"I joined when I was 17. Some of the lads are the same age. I've been there and done that. I can guide them in what’s good and what isn’t. I can hopefully motivate them as well."

Don't know if it has already been posted but to me this was new. I'm sorry but if yu take a look at the whole picture I really don't see this transfer happening this window. Sancho would need to Dembele his way out or at least such a conflict had to be staged in order to allow Zorc getting out of this situation without losing his face. Staging such an incident is already a ridiculous thought and after these comments I can't imagine a fallout will happen.

Sancho is refusing to say he will stay. Superficial speeches like this doesn't mean thst much.
He had a chance to day he will stay for next season and didnt do it.

 

[LonelyFire]

Think they're happy holding on to him for another year if that's the case. Selling him in 2022 in a recovered market could be better than 2021 in a deflated one.

However, chances are the market next summer will already have recovered. By this time we could have a vaccine for 5-6 months already. Once the revenues are flowing in again, clubs can pay those sums.

Honestly mate, there is no chance the market is going to recover that quickly. I know you think differently but people need to realise football is not immune to economics.

 

[UncleBob]

I think that was actually a well reasoned line of argument. It's always been reported that we can expect a vaccine in the early months of 2021. If that's the case and the cash flow of top clubs is back to where it was two to three months after mass production starts, signing fees in such spheres aren't unlikely.

Jesus fecking christ the naivity of some people.

Even if there's a vaccine ready in the early months of 21 and thanks to magic it's instantly distributed to the rest of the world, the market isn't going to change over night and cash flow isn't going to instantly be back to the same levels and replace almost 12 months of lost income.

We're talking a pretty hefty downward spiral for 12 months and everything is expected to be booming a few months after a vaccine

 

[cyberman]

160m spent and we are still searching for a CB to partner our 80m signing and a LB who is not a crock and can provide us with more then 0 assists per season

Which has nothing to do with my post?
Are we even properly linked with an EPL player? Grealish maybe but that died weeks ago.

 

[Red00012]

Using "social media" & "journalist" is third party. Better inform Ed or Manchester United directly if they want a certain deadline.

I thought you meant Marco Lichesteiner

 

[Red00012]

This may be an unpopular opinion but I'm fine with us not getting Sancho if it means we're not going to get fleeced by Dortmund.

Is he a cracking player? It appears so. Are we in a need for a proper winger? Yes we are. But we cannot be overpaying for every single player we're in, it's a bottomless hole.

Is that you Ed ?

 

[Cassidy]

In the current timeline, i think it is. Every club (bar those state backed obviously) finances have been compromised due to this pandemic. Of the reports are true he's also not happy with €12m salary offered. Though idk how much of that is true considering we had various reports that everything was agreed with the player.

Also we appear to be the only club that's interested in him.

The fact he's English shouldn't be raising his price all that significantly, we already have a fair amount of home-grown players.

Now look at the transfer fees so far and see if it reflects this at all

 

[cyberman]

Honestly mate, there is no chance the market is going to recover that quickly. I know you think differently but people need to realise football is not immune to economics.

Well the market has collapsed with 2 months of the season left affected by the virus so feck knows what will happen with 4 or 5 of

Jesus fecking christ the naivity of some people.

Even if there's a vaccine ready in the early months of 21 and thanks to magic it's instantly distributed to the rest of the world, the market isn't going to change over night and cash flow isn't going to instantly be back to the same levels and replace almost 12 months of lost income.

We're talking a pretty hefty downward spiral for 12 months and everything is expected to be booming a few months after a vaccine

Football was halted in March because of it so thats 2 months of the season affected and finacial disaster looms large.
Even a vaccine by Christmas will have twice the impact we are seeing noe.

 

[RUCK4444]

Jesus fecking christ the naivity of some people.

Even if there's a vaccine ready in the early months of 21 and thanks to magic it's instantly distributed to the rest of the world, the market isn't going to change over night and cash flow isn't going to instantly be back to the same levels and replace almost 12 months of lost income.

We're talking a pretty hefty downward spiral for 12 months and everything is expected to be booming a few months after a vaccine

I agree, however I also think the moment a reliable vaccine is produced that it will loosen the purse strings somewhat, with the big clubs seeing an end in sight for empty stadia.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Apparently, that's what Sancho himself said:

"I love playing with this lot. It is a special bunch. We've got some special young players coming up. I am really happy to share the pitch with them and guide them. I was once in their shoes, playing with the seniors. I am happy for them."

"I joined when I was 17. Some of the lads are the same age. I've been there and done that. I can guide them in what’s good and what isn’t. I can hopefully motivate them as well."

Don't know if it has already been posted but to me this was new. I'm sorry but if yu take a look at the whole picture I really don't see this transfer happening this window. Sancho would need to Dembele his way out or at least such a conflict had to be staged in order to allow Zorc getting out of this situation without losing his face. Staging such an incident is already a ridiculous thought and after these comments I can't imagine a fallout will happen.

speaking directly to BVB TV? I'm not sure what else you expect him to say.

He's still a Dortmund player and IS happy at the club. He wants to leave to live in England, but doesn't mean he hates it at Dortmund.

 

[Fracture90]

Is that you Ed ?

So anyone who's against being hold to ransom by Dortmund is Ed now? Petty attempt at being funny...

 

[Fracture90]

Now look at the transfer fees so far and see if it reflects this at all

Ake was overpriced, but i feel we contributed to that a lot with Maguire purchase. But then again Ziyech, Werner, Torres all went for reasonable price.

 

[Red00012]

So anyone who's against being hold to ransom by Dortmund is Ed now? Petty attempt at being funny...

Which is why we are negotiating at the moment , also if you can see how badly needed we need Sancho for RW you should take up a different sport.

 

[UncleBob]

I agree, however I also think the moment a reliable vaccine is produced that it will loosen the purse strings somewhat, with the big clubs seeing an end in sight for empty stadia.

It'll certainly make life easier, but it doesn't account for lost revenue. There's also the potential issues related to the TV deal and general sponsorship agreements...It's pretty fecking naive to believe that we'll instantly be back at the point we were at during christmas 2019.

 

[Mickeza]

Ake was overpriced, but i feel we contributed to that a lot with Maguire purchase. But then again Ziyech, Werner, Torres all went for reasonable price.

Ziyech was done before COVID, Werner had a buyout and Torres was in the last year of his contract at a club having to sell half their team to survive the impact of COVID. It’s really hard to gauge the post-pandemic transfer world at the moment as the sample size is too small.

 

[Fracture90]

Also going by Sancho's demeanor it seems that he's perfectly fine with staying at Dortmund for another year or two until another club comes along, which also indicates he's not too convinced by our project.

I understand that some people will say he's being respectful towards Dortmund for giving him a chance, but they bought him for €10m and are now refusing anything less than x12 the money.

 

[Zehner]

The transfer market will never be the same again. PSG inflated it and now no clubs are going to be willing to go back to Neymar prices. Most clubs are still losing money and no one's going to be filling grounds again for the whole of next season so I'm not sure where you think clubs are going to have over £100m to spend next year.

In the transfer market that saw Dembele moving clubs for 140m, Sancho would be easily worth 170. Sancho is better and British, after all. So 120m is not the price in a market flooded with money.

How are clubs going to plug the gap in revenues in that time? Even if there's a vaccine in 5-6 months, they've still lost half a years worth of gate receipts. That's also implying that numbers go back pre-covid highs, which is also debatable. Also, there may not be a vaccine by then! If anything, now is the best time to sell if you want a lot of it up front, I don't see it getting better any time soon. Not to mention Dortmund's model relies on selling and fans in the stadium.

There are a few factors affecting the income right now. First and foremost, empty stadiums. Smaller clubs are affected more seriously by that since incomes through ticketing make up a smaller share of the revenue of the elite. Then there's also the fact that fans right now have less money at there disposal which is obviously affecting merchandising sales. And third, there are less European cup games to be played, leading to a decrease of broadcasting revenues.

I don't think top clubs are really in danger of not being able to pay their employees anymore. Their financial substance isn't shrinking but at the same time the missing incomes through ticketing means that they're also on a tight budget for transfers since they have to cover the expenditures they have. Once that is sorted out they'll have much more leeway. I mean, Barcelona exemplary generated more than 1 billion in revenue recently. It's not like they need to save money throughout a few seasons in order to sign a player worth 100+m. They can stem such a transfer on top of a few smaller ones every window.

So yeah, it's possble that transfer fees remain a little bit lower. But then again, as mentioned above, a player like Sancho would've been closer to 200m a few years ago than to 100m given what was paid for Dembele, Felix, Mbappe and Coutinho.

 

[Litch]

He'll sign. No one is saying he's not for sale and he's not saying he wants to stay.....

 

[Fracture90]

Which is why we are negotiating at the moment , also if you can see how badly needed we need Sancho for RW you should take up a different sport.

Cute, another attempt at being funny, eh? Shame we're not in the classroom where this could pass and draw some laugh.

 

[Cassidy]

Ake was overpriced, but i feel we contributed to that a lot with Maguire purchase. But then again Ziyech, Werner, Torres all went for reasonable price.

Ziyech was signed way before the Pandemic.
Werner had a release clause
Torres had a year on his contract

Jonathan David to Lille - record transfer fee for a Belgium league

Victor Osimhen to Napoli - No discount there

Doesnt seem clubs are getting discounts and your examples apart from Torres are not valid

 

[Zehner]

speaking directly to BVB TV? I'm not sure what else you expect him to say.

He's still a Dortmund player and IS happy at the club. He wants to leave to live in England, but doesn't mean he hates it at Dortmund.

I agree with you, we aren't far apart on that one. Thing is, I believe he'd need to force his way out in order to make this deal happen as of now. Dortmund have gone too far to swallow their own statements now if the player doesn't go into rebellion mode - and those quotes aren't suggesting that at all.

 

[RUCK4444]

It'll certainly make life easier, but it doesn't account for lost revenue. There's also the potential issues related to the TV deal and general sponsorship agreements...It's pretty fecking naive to believe that we'll instantly be back at the point we were at during christmas 2019.

Yeah I agree. Just think some of the bigger state backed clubs will just carry on as normal and take the hit once they have an end in sight.

Not saying we can do that. I think, however, that for a club of our size and standing that it’s a joke if we can’t do the same as others but that’s an ownership issue and the main issue why I didn’t shy away from backing the potential Saudi takeover.

 

[Fracture90]

Ziyech was done before COVID, Werner had a buyout and Torres was in the last year of his contract at a club having to sell half their team to survive the impact of COVID. It’s really hard to gauge the post-pandemic transfer world at the moment as the sample size is too small.

Ziyech being done pre covid19 and Werner having that clause pre covid19 only strengthens my point. Those are the prices that were asked prior to clubs losing a lot of money due to pandemic. €120m for Sancho during the pandemic is a lot.

 

[Zehner]

Honestly mate, there is no chance the market is going to recover that quickly. I know you think differently but people need to realise football is not immune to economics.

We'll see. Currently, the incomes of top clubs seem to be enough to cover the ongoing expenditures and still see through transfers of around 50-70m € since none are in existential crises. Let the incomes through ticketing return and this equals another 100m in revenue. I mean, I'm open to change my opinion on that but I currently can't see why this shouldn't be possible. United itself seems to be willing to pay up to 70/80m. You don't think when spectators are allowed in stadiums again that this could enable you to spend an additional 50m on transfers?

 

[ivaldo]

He'll sign. No one is saying he's not for sale and he's not saying he wants to stay.....

This is it. There's been a lot of chests puffed and bullishness in the media from Dortmund's side, yet none of it has been from Sancho. It would've been very easy for this to be put to bed by Sancho making a statement that he intends to stay. The fact we're getting all this bluster without any definitive statement would suggest Dortmund are either worried that he'll still go, or they have already accepted it and are just trying to squeeze out an extra few quid.

 

[RUCK4444]

Ziyech was signed way before the Pandemic.
Werner had a release clause
Torres had a year on his contract

Jonathan David to Lille - record transfer fee for a Belgium league

Victor Osimhen to Napoli - No discount there

Doesnt seem clubs are getting discounts and your examples apart from Torres are not valid

I agree, it hasn’t seen a major impact on player value.

Sancho is a fair price, Ed should pay it or move on. I can’t be too upset with Dortmund over the valuation, they’ve a track record of getting big money for players they won’t change it now.

 

[Fracture90]

Ziyech was signed way before the Pandemic.
Werner had a release clause
Torres had a year on his contract

Jonathan David to Lille - record transfer fee for a Belgium league

Victor Osimhen to Napoli - No discount there

Doesnt seem clubs are getting discounts and your examples apart from Torres are not valid

How are examples pre covid19 not valid? Those prices were paid pre covid19, and they would look reasonable during the pandemic as well.

Haven't seen official figures for Osimhen but think it was quoted at around €70 which i agree was too much, but David is in correlation to Osimhen transfer because he was bought as his replacement.

 

[Withnail]

Jesus fecking christ the naivity of some people.

Even if there's a vaccine ready in the early months of 21 and thanks to magic it's instantly distributed to the rest of the world, the market isn't going to change over night and cash flow isn't going to instantly be back to the same levels and replace almost 12 months of lost income.

We're talking a pretty hefty downward spiral for 12 months and everything is expected to be booming a few months after a vaccine

How long does it take for 50m doses to be manufactured, shipped and administered?

They can manage it in a few days right?

 

[Fortitude]

To have control - You need to take control
- Jan Aage Fjortoft

Buhahahah.

 

[crossy1686]

In the transfer market that saw Dembele moving clubs for 140m, Sancho would be easily worth 170. Sancho is better and British, after all. So 120m is not the price in a market flooded with money.

You're talking about a market that had full stadiums week in week out before a pandemic. There isn't the same amount of money in the market anymore, regardless of who went for what years ago.

 

[Adisa]

His clearly not going to burn bridges with Dortmund because he is not sure we are going to pay up.

 

[JPRouve]

Ziyech being done pre covid19 and Werner having that clause pre covid19 only strengthens my point. Those are the prices that were asked prior to clubs losing a lot of money due to pandemic. €120m for Sancho during the pandemic is a lot.

It doesn't. First because Dortmund are a wealthier club which is the main thing that will determine a player's fee, outside of his contract and his level. Dortmund will hold for more money because they can, Ajax aren't as wealthy as Dortmund and Werner joined an intermediary club like Leipzig because he could get a low-ish clause. You can't extrapolates fees without putting them strictly into context which means taking into account the club they are playing for.

Dortmund are a "selling" club but they are at the top of that category, the funny thing about Dortmund is that I noticed that a lot of people expect decent fees from them while people expect to be fleeced by Lyon when Dortmund are wealthier than Lyon and as difficult to negotiate with.

 

[UncleBob]

How long does it take for 50m doses to be manufactured, shipped and administered?

They can manage it in a few days right?

I'm not sure if you are joking or not.

 

[mitchmouse]

8 weeks before the transfer deadline. Boy it’s going to be a long summer for you!

did you miss the bit where Dortmund set a deadline?

 

[LonelyFire]

We'll see. Currently, the incomes of top clubs seem to be enough to cover the ongoing expenditures and still see through transfers of around 50-70m € since none are in existential crises. Let the incomes through ticketing return and this equals another 100m in revenue. I mean, I'm open to change my opinion on that but I currently can't see why this shouldn't be possible. United itself seems to be willing to pay up to 70/80m. You don't think when spectators are allowed in stadiums again that this could enable you to spend an additional 50m on transfers?

I think this situation demonstrates how brittle the finances of football clubs are. Utd may be better placed than most but market prices represent the ability of the majority - and most clubs are definitely in a harder position than Utd.

As an aside, the chances of spectators being back in a stadium inside 9 months I find unrealistic. I don’t want to turn this into a Covid debate but we have never developed a vaccine for any Coronavirus strain. It seems that people have forgotten this and seem to believe it’s only a matter of time. It should still be regarded as an if we get one as far as I’m concerned.

 

[Joseunited]

Also going by Sancho's demeanor it seems that he's perfectly fine with staying at Dortmund for another year or two until another club comes along, which also indicates he's not too convinced by our project.

I understand that some people will say he's being respectful towards Dortmund for giving him a chance, but they bought him for €10m and are now refusing anything less than x12 the money.

I think he's more than happy with Ole's project. I think he understands that in this climate 100 million plus is a lot of money for any club to pay out and as a result he isn't kicking up a fuss.All the noise suggests he wants to come back home.

 

[mitchmouse]

The Sun (yeh, I know) now reporting we want Sancho to take a pay cut. if that ever turns out to be proved. Woodward should be sacked for not only being useless but also for being a deluded idiot

 

[Withnail]

I'm not sure if you are joking or not.

Seriously?

I need to try harder

 

[UncleBob]

The Sun (yeh, I know) now reporting we want Sancho to take a pay cut. if that ever turns out to be proved. Woodward should be sacked for not only being useless but also for being a deluded idiot

You do understand that this statement says a lot more about you being a deluded .....