Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now

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hellhunter said:
We're not living in a pre Neymar world anymore, though.

In times where Dembele and Coutinho cost the amounts Barca had to shell out, Sancho easily a 120M player.
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I don't know how else to say this anymore but just because something happened before, doesn't mean it will continue to happen in the future.

Neymar went for silly money because clubs had and were willing to spend silly money. If clubs no longer have silly money then they cannot spend it.

It does not matter one bit what Dembele went for. You cannot set prices for players based on what someone went for years ago.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Dortmund's actions actually indicate that they're desperate to sell. They've been really aggressive in trying to close the deal quickly.
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I kind of agree. I think that they want to sell or maybe agreed to sell Sancho but I'm skeptical about them being desperate in the sense that I wouldn't be surprised if the agreement is to sell him in the next 12 months which would explain why they are clearly sellers but also sticking to a fair valuation.
 
SATA said:
I find it really hard to believe that Sancho a 20 year old is on 190K per week at Dortmund. What are the likes of Reus and Hummels on like who are far more seniors and established names in football and at that club?
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I wonder if that figure is pre tax. @roonster09 any ideas?
 
crossy1686 said:
:lol: No it hasn't!

In a normal market, with full stadiums and big broadcasting contracts/sponsors, he's worth about £70m - £80m. In a COVID market, which won't recover until the 3rd quarter of 2023 he's worth about £50m - £60m

The highest transfer fee pre Neymar was about £90m for Bale to Madrid so I'm not sure where these figures are coming from. Prices only go up when there's more money in the market, they go down if no one has any.
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How do you end up with those exact figures, though? What do you base this on? Why is he supposedly worth £50m-60 now? And why do you reckon he was worth "only" £70m-80 before covid?
Why isn't he worth £40m-50? Or £60m-70?

I mean, lesser players have been sold for a lot more (than £70m-80m) pre-covid, and lesser players are quoted at £80m today (Havertz).

I really, really don't understand this. Please elaborate on how you come up with these numbers.
 
SATA said:
I find it really hard to believe that Sancho a 20 year old is on 190K per week at Dortmund. What are the likes of Reus and Hummels on like who are far more seniors and established names in football and at that club?
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He isn't, that figure is nonsensical, which has been pointed out ages ago. That this Kajumba guy uses that number to compare to hypothetical United offers makes him extremely unbelievable.
 
Stack said:
Its all over, he isnt joining us, close thread.
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Where's the white text? Honestly there's a lot of terrible posts in this thread, but ones like yours are by far the worse. Just utterly pointless, the threads not being closed until he joins us.

Another one for the list of people who don't deserve to watch Sancho when he signs for us, the list is getting awfully long.
 
UncleBob said:
Jesus fecking christ the naivity of some people.

Even if there's a vaccine ready in the early months of 21 and thanks to magic it's instantly distributed to the rest of the world, the market isn't going to change over night and cash flow isn't going to instantly be back to the same levels and replace almost 12 months of lost income.

We're talking a pretty hefty downward spiral for 12 months and everything is expected to be booming a few months after a vaccine :lol:
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Exactly. It's not like a vaccine will magically turn everything to normal overnight.
 
Glorio said:
:lol: Brilliant question there to be honest!
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It is, and it really does my head in.

Probably deserves its own thread. I'm curious to how people actually come up with these numbers on every single player on the planet.

"Jonás Costa, the LB from Corinthians? I reckon he's worth €20m."
"Chiesa, the highly touted winger from Fiorentina? Overrated. I'd say he's worth €30m max".
"Ziyech, the 27 year old from Ajax? I'd say he's a bargain for €40m! Great deal, that."
 
October 1st we still won’t have signed anyone then we’ll announce Sancho for £150m. Woodward spends the entire 3 months of the window haggling on the fee and not even thinking about any other transfers just concentrating on United “not being held to ransom” before splurging an overinflated fee in a late panic. Sound about right?
 
Skåre Willoch said:
It is, and it really does my head in.

Probably deserves its own thread. I'm curious to how people actually come up with these numbers on every single player on the planet.

"Jonás Costa, the LB from Corinthians? I reckon he's worth €20m."
"Chiesa, the highly touted winger from Fiorentina? Overrated. I'd say he's worth €30m max".
"Ziyech, the 27 year old from Ajax? I'd say he's a bargain for €40m! Great deal, that."
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You can ballpark fees based on similar recent transfers under circumstances that are close but you will still have to talk about brackets, you can't use random fees and you are obviously speculating. Now Covid market fees aren't thing yet, so it's surprising to see people state fees and covid won't affect everyone similarly so even then it would highly depend on both the selling and buying clubs financial capabilities.
 
I have the last two three days been reading Man United and B Dortmund’s annual reports from 2018 to Q3 2020. Not only the numbers but also documents involving information to shareholders. I have study their business models, followed their cash flows from 2018 and trying to inform me about their future impacts of the Pandemic. I’m by no means an expert but I know enough to qualify for giving a fairly educated and well informed opinion.

The reason I “follow the money” it’s obvious. Money talks and BS...

I think it’s time to reduce our criticizing about everything and nothing, especially about Woodward. He’s by no means perfect but in this case he’s the expert and we supporters are just guessing. All of us wants to buy Sancho, Ole and Woodward included but where you and I speculate about right or wrong then our financial management team actually know their stuff. They have facts on their table.

Back the club and accept that COVID actually have changed the landscape. Whatever Woodward do he‘s doing it in our best interest. I accepts the outcome of his decision because from my judgement of the latest two annual reports he’s doing a heck of a job. Honestly. That’s my opinion.
 
crossy1686 said:
:lol: No it hasn't!

In a normal market, with full stadiums and big broadcasting contracts/sponsors, he's worth about £70m - £80m. In a COVID market, which won't recover until the 3rd quarter of 2023 he's worth about £50m - £60m

The highest transfer fee pre Neymar was about £90m for Bale to Madrid so I'm not sure where these figures are coming from. Prices only go up when there's more money in the market, they go down if no one has any.
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I understand the market is affected. I factored that in.
You seriously think Sancho would be worth £70-80m without covid?
Do you know what we paid for Pogba, Lukaku, Maguire?
Do you know what Coutinho, Felix, Dembele went for?

Are you sticking with that valuation?

When all is said and done, it doesn’t matter what we think.
What a player's value is, is determined by what his club is willing to accept.
£50m wouldn't even get them to answer the phone.
 
Skåre Willoch said:
It is, and it really does my head in.

Probably deserves its own thread. I'm curious to how people actually come up with these numbers on every single player on the planet.

"Jonás Costa, the LB from Corinthians? I reckon he's worth €20m."
"Chiesa, the highly touted winger from Fiorentina? Overrated. I'd say he's worth €30m max".
"Ziyech, the 27 year old from Ajax? I'd say he's a bargain for €40m! Great deal, that."
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I'd say in majority of cases, it's based on comparable evidence. Same way as the bank valuation when you get a mortgage.
 
SATA said:
I find it really hard to believe that Sancho a 20 year old is on 190K per week at Dortmund. What are the likes of Reus and Hummels on like who are far more seniors and established names in football and at that club?
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We just got rid of big salarys of Götze and Schürrle, so there is enough financial strenght to pay Sancho more. In addition, we always prefere a lot of bonuses depending on performances of the player himself and of the team instead of frozen figures.
 
crossy1686 said:
I don't know how else to say this anymore but just because something happened before, doesn't mean it will continue to happen in the future.

Neymar went for silly money because clubs had and were willing to spend silly money. If clubs no longer have silly money then they cannot spend it.

It does not matter one bit what Dembele went for. You cannot set prices for players based on what someone went for years ago.
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United value Sancho at £70 million in a post-COVID market, whereas Dortmund - who seemingly refuse to acknowledge the effects of COVID on transfer market values - value him at £108 minimum, and neither side is prepared to compromise on the issue. The truth is, there is no motivation for Dortmund to lower the asking fee, especially not for a player they do not wish to sell, and certainly not when in all likelihood their demands will be met 12 months from now, perhaps exceeding them.

It's a sellers market right now, and the onus is on Woodward and United to meet their asking price. It's looking increasingly unlikely that they will.
 
FizzyWomack said:
I agree mate I would rather that too. There’s nothing wrong with it at all and it’s still an achievement. But what I’m saying is goading Jadon about it is hardly having one over on him. Like I said,we are Manchester United. A champions league team! Even he knows what our club is all about and it’s not Europa.

But anyways,another day another transfer saga!

Any muppets out there reading this if you’re having a bad day just remember Sancho didn’t actually say “I’m happy here”

Deep breaths!
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I agree. We’re back where we belong - in the Champions League. If we win EL we also get some nice prize money plus gets into seed 1 in CL next season (which is a huge bonus tbf)

Re. Sancho he didn’t say ”I will play for Dortmund next season” and United briefs are that negotiations still ungoing. So this transfer is still very on.

I think we will have to wait until september but my feeling is that Sancho’s coming home this window.
 
mitchmouse said:
I just happen to know a bit more about some of the reporters than you do... some are not even close to as bad as some people here think. Some, who you might tend to trust a bit more, don't always deserve that
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:lol: Ah the level of delusion.

Your feed is full of rants about Woodward, that's about the level you're at. Ability to think rationally = 0.
 
JPRouve said:
Again, it depends entirely on the club you are talking about. How much money they have for the next 24 months, how much they rely on transfers on the short term. You are making sweeping statements that aren't true for everyone to the same extent. Sporting CP finances are terrible and the pandemic will hit them hard, that's why they would have been desperate for money even if it meant undervaluing Bruno Fernandes, that doesn't apply to Dortmund who will get hit by the lack of gate but their finances are solid, they don't start from a weak point.

And no they are not trying to recover losses by demanding a huge fee, Sancho is one of the best young players in the world and they are allegedly asking what they asked for Dembélé. That's where you really make no sense, you are trying to force a narrative that doesn't make sense. By your logic if there wasn't a pandemic, they wouldn't ask for as much money which is quite obviously wrong, they have no reason to not value Sancho the way they valued Dembélé. If anything the pandemic could have seen them undervalue Sancho and get a big immediate income, that's what you do when you really need money.
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Obviously different clubs are affected differently during this pandemic ffs, no ones denying that. As i stated Dortmund are one of the wealthier selling clubs, but they're still impacted by this. Now i don't know whether they didn't want or they couldn't afford to keep Hakimi who was one of their best players this season. Also i don't think Madrid was asking from them the same amount they sold him to Inter later.

I believe they are but we can disagree on that. Dembele was a completely different situation. Barca had a lot of cash to burn €222m which Neymar paid in a single instalment iirc, they knew that and that Barca are desperate for a winger to replace Neymar with. It was late in the transfer window so they didn't have that much time to look for replacement so that also helped jack up the price they wanted for Dembele. And all that considered, he went for how much was it? €100-110 initial fee + a lot of add-ons, dunno which ones were those and how easy/difficult to obtain those were.

All that logic and narrative talks is baffling especially if you go back and read that i actually stated that Euro would have impacted greatly into their assessment of the price. Iirc figures touted were around €100m in the early days of the pandemic, when things didn't look that serious, but now we're getting figures of €120-130m.
 



United were never directly informed of any August 10th deadline in any case and view Dortmund’s latest statements as part of the battle for leverage in negotiations. It is a belief backed up by independent industry sources. That being said, there is significant work to do for a compromise, with Dortmund demanding €120 million but United exploring a deal including various payment instalments and add-ons.
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mitchmouse said:
did you miss the bit where Dortmund set a deadline?
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No, I didn’t miss the arbitrary deadline, that means absolutely nothing. The only deadline that matters is 5 October.

If they didn’t want to sell him, they would have come out and said so at the start of the summer. Instead they have said you can have him, just as long as you pay us what we want.

Nothing has changed.
 
JPRouve said:
Of course it helped PSG but the idea that it was Monaco doing a favor to PSG is wrong, it was Monaco doing a favor to themselves because Mbappé wasn't going to extend, he would have been less expensive the next season and it was best for Monaco to that transfer in their books in 2018/2019.
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But who gives a feck? Deal was stuck that greatly benefited both parties, obviously maybe Monacco's first intention wasn't to do PSG a solid but in the end they did exactly that, for which i assume they were rewarded with few extra millions.
 
Stack said:
Its all over, he isnt joining us, close thread.
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At least this thread gives some entertainment. Arrogance mixed with cluelessness about Dortmund and the contextes there, conspiracy theories, wailing, raging, begging, threatening, and so on. Everything you want from an entertaining thread. Enjoy.
 
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Fracture90 said:
But who gives a feck? Deal was stuck that greatly benefited both parties, obviously maybe Monacco's first intention wasn't to do PSG a solid but in the end they did exactly that, for which i assume they were rewarded with few extra millions.
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You should, since you tried to make the point that PSG paid an extra for a service when they didn't.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Dortmund's actions actually indicate that they're desperate to sell. They've been really aggressive in trying to close the deal quickly.
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Yeah, of course :lol: How can not everyone see it? I mean look at Dortmund, they are so desperate, desperation is all over them. Don't you see it?
 
I can’t believe there are people on here who still entertain that anything written in the sun might be true
 
.mica said:
Yeah, of course :lol: How can not everyone see it? I mean look at Dortmund, they are so desperate, desperation is all over them. Don't you see it?
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Have fun winding up the United fans. I hope you get the attention you're seeking.

I also hope this transfer goes ahead if only to rub your noses in it ;)
 
JPRouve said:
You should, since you tried to make the point that PSG paid an extra for a service when they didn't.
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Ok, let me try to explain. Both parties came to an agreement that benefited both parties, greatly and it especially helped PSG with the books because they already got Neymar and few other players in that transfer window. So am i silly to assume that considering the competition PSG was facing from Madrid they gave a little extra in order to get Mbappe on a loan which would enable them to sign him permanently next year when they'd have more leeway?
 
JPRouve said:
You can ballpark fees based on similar recent transfers under circumstances that are close but you will still have to talk about brackets, you can't use random fees and you are obviously speculating. Now Covid market fees aren't thing yet, so it's surprising to see people state fees and covid won't affect everyone similarly so even then it would highly depend on both the selling and buying clubs financial capabilities.
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Mihai said:
I'd say in majority of cases, it's based on comparable evidence. Same way as the bank valuation when you get a mortgage.
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This is what I try to do when guesstimating as well. I don't know any other way, really, than "player X with comparable skills/talent went recently for €Z to club Y". I don't have a degree in finance, so this is the only way I can think of being at least close to accurate.

But then you have this guy (and many others as well), just disregarding recent transfers totally and comes up with his own numbers:

crossy1686 said:
I don't know how else to say this anymore but just because something happened before, doesn't mean it will continue to happen in the future.

Neymar went for silly money because clubs had and were willing to spend silly money. If clubs no longer have silly money then they cannot spend it.

It does not matter one bit what Dembele went for. You cannot set prices for players based on what someone went for years ago.
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crossy1686 said:
:lol: No it hasn't!

In a normal market, with full stadiums and big broadcasting contracts/sponsors, he's worth about £70m - £80m. In a COVID market, which won't recover until the 3rd quarter of 2023 he's worth about £50m - £60m

The highest transfer fee pre Neymar was about £90m for Bale to Madrid so I'm not sure where these figures are coming from. Prices only go up when there's more money in the market, they go down if no one has any.
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I don't mean to put you on the spot or anything @crossy1686 , you're just the most recent example I could find of someone completely disregarding recent transfer history and coming up with numbers totally on your own.
 
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