Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now

[Bestietom]

Why would Bayern give us Coman in loan though?

He's in and out of team and not happy, I read..

 

[acnumber9]

Is 80m Euros even that low in the current situation? I don't think it's that far off. Maybe 90 to 95m Euros would be about right.

120m euros (or £108m) in these very uncertain times is a piss take. No other club is biting at that price are they?

There’s zero evidence that fees are going to be any lower at the moment. An average defender just left a relegated team for £41m and a striker that scored 13 goals in Ligue 1 just went for £70m. Less teams may be willing to spend but it doesn’t seem to be impacting the actual purchase prices.

 

[macheda14]

Is 80m Euros even that low in the current situation? I don't think it's that far off. Maybe 90 to 95m Euros would be about right.

120m euros (or £108m) in these very uncertain times is a piss take. No other club is biting at that price are they?

But that’s the point. They don’t want to sell him this summer unless they get exactly what they want. It’s not a piss take if they don’t really want to sell.

 

[Scholsey2004]

This is true. The pricing for the best players is almost a totally different marketplace of its own.

I think we should cough up 100 mill in the initial payment, for the longer term benefit of the squad it’s worth it.
Ive voiced my concern about Greenwood being a long term RW, I’d rather him (when he’s ready) rotate with Martial in that no 9 spot. So let’s get a proper RW in now, rather than waste money on lesser players.

Sancho's a big layout but realistically it's not a transfer that comes with great risk. We know, catastrophic injury aside, that even if he's not quite as good as he looks in Germany that he's at least good enough to be a long term starter here. Of course all this works on the presumption that the club is willing and able to actually make that deal in this climate. If not I just don't see them lowering their valuation in desperation to sell as some on here seem to think likely. On Greenwood, I think he's OK in that spot in that he'll get plenty of goals. What he can't do though is dominate the ball high up the park like Sancho can. The only forward we've got who can remotely do that is Mata but he's completely toothless in terms of attacking output.

 

[VanGaalEra]

@Nou_Camp99 i thought something similar when I thought he had 2 years left on his contract. With 3 years on his contract, it's a fair fee.

Imagine, someone comes in this summer to buy Martial or Rashford. How much would you ask for? Surely £100M plus.

 

[Womp]

Clubs like Napoli with vastly inferior resources to us are spending over 70m on one player and they have no European football. All this talk of the pandemic affecting Utd is lame excuses from fans who are afraid of criticizing the club. Utd are still one of the wealthiest clubs in the world and all the supposed 90m we have/had in the bank and the 140m loan we withdrew must count for something when you factor in we`ve gotten a lot of revenue for qualifying for the CL and possibly more revenue for playing in the EL or even winning it if we are lucky.
You think it`s bad the club is already losing money now you know what`s worse? Not making the necessary investment needed in the team that can not only make us underperform in the PL but even make us miss out on CL football again which will be another loss compounded on what is already there and to those optimistic people who think there is no chance we don`t get top 4 we went from 2nd to 6th under Jose/Ole don`t rule out anything. Does it not make more sense to take that hit now, get the necessary players in and even if fans do not come back to the stadiums for a while good performances on the pitch which lead to more revenue and prize money from maybe winning a trophy and getting CL football again compensates for any losses as well as preventing the chance of facing financial consequences of not being good enough on the pitch?

The loan was to account for the losses we have been exposed to, I very much doubt it was taken out for transfers. Yes, those are revenue paths, but you're forgetting, those paths of revenue may not be as lucrative given the Covid pandemic, that's exactly what I mean when everything is up in the air, they need to account for all of these things. Everything has been impacted.

Also I don't agree, the risk we may miss out on CL revenue isn't as punishing as potentially utilizing funds we can't justify which could put us in a sticky spot, for a transfer which, by going off past history, may very well be a disappointment.

 

[JPRouve]

He's in and out of team and not happy, I read..

He is a starter whenever fit, he isn't in and out of the team.

 

[VanGaalEra]

I didn't say it was from him directly, i said it was from the Podcast he was on with that Christian Falk guy, the @cfbayern who knows his German football stuff, he seemingly said it

I can't imagine Woody seriously turned up with that bid.

 

[STaphouse]

I personally think this transfer will cool off a bit until some deadwood is sold. If the €80m euro offer is true, then there clearly isn't a bottomless pit of money available and this could point to Ole also wanting other targets with Sancho being his #1.

If Woodward spunks €120m on Sancho and then can't get rid of the the likes of Smalling, Dalot, Jones, Rojo, Pereira, Lingers etc then Ole can't have his other targets.

I think once there's more outgoings in the works we'll start to see some more movement with the Sancho deal.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

But that’s the point. They don’t want to sell him this summer unless they get exactly what they want. It’s not a piss take if they don’t really want to sell.

No if the don't want to sell him and that's why they are asking for £108m then that's perfectly fine. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it anyway.

I honestly don't think he's worth that just yet though personally.

 

[Bestietom]

He is a starter whenever fit, he isn't in and out of the team.

He is injured a lot then.

 

[Womp]

This intermediary thing is what really gets me annoyed about Dortmund.

I can understand holding out for a big fee, I can understand Zorc making all these statements to prop up his stance, even via his players saying how happy they are Sancho "stays".

But what I don't get is - they used an intermediary which is slower to negotiate and then said you have 10th August to get it done. Hirst mentioned himself that Manchester United were displeased at this - we apparently have a good relationship with Dortmund, and the Mkhitaryan deal between the two clubs at least was amicable and without any nonsense liaison negotiators between the clubs. It was all direct communication with only Raiola (rightly) involved for agent matters. Why can't they do the same with Sancho if they are in such a rush?

Yea, I found it very odd too. Only thing I can think of is that they would prefer to keep him, but wouldn't be against selling for their valuation.

 

[VanGaalEra]

If we want him, we will have to pay up. Coman on loan for this season, with him and Greenwood fighting for the right wing spot.
Get Koulibaly in and a DM. and wait until next season for Sancho.

Why is every transfer, a saga with us.

Probably because we follow our sagas more than other clubs.

Look at Chelsea and Havertz, the links have been stronger for longer.

 

[RUCK4444]

You'd get caught out doing that sooner or later. There's a reason some mainstream papers/journos are on the banned list on here for tweets etc and others are viewed as very reliable if not infallible.

It depends how much you actually put your neck on the line. For example this transfer, Romano came out quite late amongst the Journo's (IIRC) to confirm we were in talks. And he's said nothing other than that since. Which is fine, I don't want him to make stuff up.

However this also now positions him to take 'credit' regardless of whether it goes through or not. That's a perfect way to remain 'credible' among many.

Listen I might be giving him a hard time but I can't remember him breaking a story, putting his name on the line and being proved right. I know we are always buzzing to see him join in on a transfer but I can't recollect him breaking one. Seems to me he just rides a wave of frenzied followers and just posts ambiguous non-committal tweets when things are quite clearly being discussed between the two clubs.

 

[RUCK4444]

Yea, I found it very odd too. Only thing I can think of is that they would prefer to keep him, but wouldn't be against selling for their valuation.

Yeah I took that as a tactic to delay negotiations, in effect meaning that they genuinely want to keep the lad.

Also another reason I believe Sancho will need to kick up a fuss or request a transfer to really get this going again.

 

[VanGaalEra]

It depends how much you actually put your neck on the line. For example this transfer, Romano came out quite late amongst the Journo's (IIRC) to confirm we were in talks. And he's said nothing other than that since.

Now he's positioned to take 'credit' regardless of whether it goes through or not. That's a perfect way to remain 'credible' among many.

Listen I might be giving him a hard time but I can't remember him breaking a story, putting his name on the line and being proved right. I know we are always buzzing to see him join in on a transfer but I can't recollect him breaking one. Seems to me he just rides a wave of frenzied followers and just posts ambiguous non-committal tweets when things are quite clearly being discussed between the two clubs.

Not really, mate. He said back in April United would go for Sancho and he was the number 1 target.

 

[JPRouve]

He is injured a lot then.

That he is but Bayern don't want to sell him and definitely not loan him. As Bayern fans suggested they lack depth and all their wingers have injuries issues.

 

[VorZakone]

Aren't Dortmund publicly listed on a stock exchange too?

If the deal is happening, how quick must they release the information due to regulations?

 

[Bestietom]

That he is but Bayern don't want to sell him and definitely not loan him. As Bayern fans suggested they lack depth and all their wingers have injuries issues.

What about Bailey then. How much would he cost.

 

[Scholsey2004]

He is injured a lot then.

He's is. He even talked about how he might quit the game if he got another serious injury.

 

[Leftback99]

There’s zero evidence that fees are going to be any lower at the moment. An average defender just left a relegated team for £41m and a striker that scored 13 goals in Ligue 1 just went for £70m. Less teams may be willing to spend but it doesn’t seem to be impacting the actual purchase prices.

There has been very few deals yet to judge that including a few with low release clauses. I'd expect most deals late in the window when there is longer to assess financial impact of the current situation.

 

[Strelok]

Why would Bayern give us Coman in loan though?

He lost his starting position and is on £137k a week. Why not?

 

[acnumber9]

There has been very few deals yet to judge that including a few with low release clauses. I'd expect most deals late in the window when there is longer to assess financial impact of the current situation.

And the deals there have been does not suggest that fees are going to be lower.

 

[cyberman]

@Nou_Camp99 i thought something similar when I thought he had 2 years left on his contract. With 3 years on his contract, it's a fair fee.

Imagine, someone comes in this summer to buy Martial or Rashford. How much would you ask for? Surely £100M plus.

Honestly, not in this climate.
If we dont want to sell then don't set a price. If we do want to sell then we negotiate a price someone can pay.
Clubs are hanging onto the dregs of pre corona prices here. It will soon become crystal clear how far they will bottom out.
5m loss every home game, repaying the tv deal, the public spending less on merch etc etc. Then FFP comes into play with the revenue cut in half (at best)

 

[NFM]

United either want a RW to spread the play , ie right footed; or they want one to link up and cut in on their left foot. The second alterative would mean the RB would have to be good at overlap to provide the width. I presume after buying a defensive RB for £50m they want the first option, although that would require a CF and attacking midfielders to provide bodies in front of goal for passes/crosses etc. United don't seem to have them either, except possibly Greenwood playing as CF.
Until they sort this out its pretty daft paying £100m for a player, however good individually ,that might not add that much to the team dynamics.
I would prefer another attacking mid such as Grealish to give alternative to Bruno, and keep Greenwood and Martial in the team. Any savings can be spent on left footed CB.

 

[Kostov]

Is 80m Euros even that low in the current situation? I don't think it's that far off. Maybe 90 to 95m Euros would be about right.

120m euros (or £108m) in these very uncertain times is a piss take. No other club is biting at that price are they?

It really is very simple. Dortmund obviously don't have to sell, and in order to do so, same as Leicester last season they want what they want. They also know that there is no suitable alternative to a Sancho type of player, which makes these Dembele or Douglas Costa rumors useless. His contract is up in 2023? They know they can sell him next summer for at least the same amount.

 

[RUCK4444]

Not really, mate. He said back in April United would go for Sancho and he was the number 1 target.

If that's the case then Neil Custis should be Tier 1 because this thread started with his tweet in February!

So Romano was 2 months late to a Custis party.

 

[Mickeza]

But that’s the point. They don’t want to sell him this summer unless they get exactly what they want. It’s not a piss take if they don’t really want to sell.

Pure conjecture on my part but it sounds like in order to get Sancho to extend a further year they agreed to let him go for 120m euros this summer which was undoubtedly a fair price at the time. However, I’d argue that COVID has changed all that and whilst the fee is technically what was agreed it isn’t in the spirt of what was agreed anymore. They also bought him for 8m and he’s more than paid that back with his performances. If he wants to return home, then a fee of 80m which is 10 times what they signed him for is more than fair in this market.

That’s how this differs from Pogba last year which many are citing as an example to say it’s hypocritical to expect Dortmund to sell. We paid a world record fee for him plus very large agent fees. We didn’t owe Pogba anything, and we rightly wanted to recoup that money back.

 

[theklr]

Aren't Dortmund publicly listed on a stock exchange too?

If the deal is happening, how quick must they release the information due to regulations?

Think not more than a few days at max.

So that can have something to say regarding them wanting a replacement first.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

It really is very simple. Dortmund obviously don't have to sell, and in order to do so, same as Leicester last season they want what they want. They also know that there is no suitable alternative to a Sancho type of player, which makes these Dembele or Douglas Costa rumors useless. His contract is up in 2023? They know they can sell him next summer for at least the same amount.

And that's fair enough if that's their stance.

I said at the start of lockdown that us breaking our transfer record this year when we are going to lose over 100m due to covid and the country is heading for its worst recession for a very long time would send a truly horrid message to the country. I imagine this is why we are trying to get him cheaper than we got Pogba.

 

[JPRouve]

What about Bailey then. How much would he cost.

@Zehner is the one to ask about Bailey. But in my opinion he hasn't lived up to the early hype, he is inconsistent, I think that he has had a few injuries and essentially lost his place to Diaby.

 

[RkkMan]

The loan was to account for the losses we have been exposed to, I very much doubt it was taken out for transfers. Yes, those are revenue paths, but you're forgetting, those paths of revenue may not be as lucrative given the Covid pandemic, that's exactly what I mean when everything is up in the air, they need to account for all of these things. Everything has been impacted.

Also I don't agree, the risk we may miss out on CL revenue isn't as punishing as potentially utilizing funds we can't justify which could put us in a sticky spot, for a transfer which, by going off past history, may very well be a disappointment.

You still are yet to then explain how inferior clubs to us with inferior resources are still able to spend big whilst they are also facing the same problems as us with the pandemic difference being we have the capability of mitigating the risk better than them due to being vastly superior financially. There is simply no excuse not to invest in the team pandemic or no pandemic or we`ll be making the same mistake we made in 2018 settling for a poor window on the basis of a strong season only to drop by 4 positions which forced us to spend big the following window anyway. And not getting CL COMPOUNDED with the losses the pandemic comes with it is very punishing. Imagine if we didn`t sign Maguire/AWB after the defensive horror we had the previous season. Imagine if we didn`t get Bruno. We`d be looking at losses of 2 back to back seasons of no CL football as well as 30% cut from Adidas. To avoid such problems you simply have to take that hit now and as performances on the pitch improve as you can`t escape investment into the team without serious consequences so will the finances and going off past history Sancho like Pogba in 2016 is one of the most talented youngsters ITW with huge marketing potential as well as potential to be one of the very best players ITW. One of those gambles worth taking

 

[dwd]

 

[redshaw]

I don't believe we'd offer 60m euro plus 20m in addons but I did say before I think United won't want to go above £100m and might top out at around £85m. £85-90m in total or 95-100m Euro seems a fair price for Sancho.

We have conflicting reports of player and agent terms agreed and not agreed at all, 70+30+20 to now 60m euro bid. I can't take Romano and the others seriously on this deal.

With recessions due to covid and unknown winter with a big possibility everything is shutdown again maybe this is best left to next summer and Sancho genuinely has 3 years left. I knew about the wage rise before but not the year extension. I heard Zorc say recently along the lines of effectively gave Sancho an extra year with the wage rise which sounded like a play on words.

I totally respect Dortmund would want to hold on and ride this covid thing out if on 3 years and any buyer would want a lower price or be uncertain about the drops in income for the next 12 months. So see you next year then.

I hope we can put in our best offer,, yay or nay and move quickly on.

 

[DJ_21]

Don’t think this deal is happening, what’s the thoughts on Coman? I’ve not really seen him play but he’s not really a goal scorer is he?

 

[2ndTouch]

Pure conjecture on my part but it sounds like in order to get Sancho to extend a further year they agreed to let him go for 120m euros this summer which was undoubtedly a fair price at the time. However, I’d argue that COVID has changed all that and whilst the fee is technically what was agreed it isn’t in the spirt of what was agreed anymore. They also bought him for 8m and he’s more than paid that back with his performances. If he wants to return home, then a fee of 80m which is 10 times what they signed him for is more than fair in this market.

I can see you deeming a 33% discount as appropriate, but it'll still be the selling club having the last word. And I'm somewhat confident you wouldn't go that route, if the roles were reversed...

That’s how this differs from Pogba last year which many are citing as an example to say it’s hypocritical to expect Dortmund to sell. We paid a world record fee for him plus very large agent fees. We didn’t owe Pogba anything, and we rightly wanted to recoup that money back.

How does it matter what you've paid before? Seems more like a justification for double standards.

 

[Leftback99]

And the deals there have been does not suggest that fees are going to be lower.

Like I said we'll see later in the window and some of the bigger deals so far have been with release clauses. The Napoli one is the odd one out.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

I personally think this transfer will cool off a bit until some deadwood is sold. If the €80m euro offer is true, then there clearly isn't a bottomless pit of money available and this could point to Ole also wanting other targets with Sancho being his #1.

If Woodward spunks €120m on Sancho and then can't get rid of the the likes of Smalling, Dalot, Jones, Rojo, Pereira, Lingers etc then Ole can't have his other targets.

I think once there's more outgoings in the works we'll start to see some more movement with the Sancho deal.

Probably should be IF there is more outgoings trying to sell players in this market is not going to be easy and players are going to be keener to hang on to big contracts more than every before

 

[theklr]

Strange tweet, but it could be that United are briefing that they are preparing to pay up to get the player?

Must be a positive when he mentions squad depth..

 

[Lash]

It really is very simple. Dortmund obviously don't have to sell, and in order to do so, same as Leicester last season they want what they want. They also know that there is no suitable alternative to a Sancho type of player, which makes these Dembele or Douglas Costa rumors useless. His contract is up in 2023? They know they can sell him next summer for at least the same amount.

I'm not sure that's true. There's no guarantee fans will even be back in stadiums this year.