That largely depends on us actually making credible offers. The highest we're supposed to have offered was 80m euros including add-ons. Even in the current market that's not worth considering from their point of view. The market's deflated right now but the most in demand players prices have never been consistent with market trends anyway. Look at Neymar's price for instance. How did they come to that valuation?
Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now
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Thanks mateDidn't take you long to work that out
Welcome to the forum anyway.
Been a Caf reader for a few years though, so not that impressive really.I say if you gonna go muppet, go hard or don't go in at all
If I'm not mistaken the end of EL is well before their season starts? So I'm not sure why you're on about that.
We can easily justify the cost. 10 years at United = 12mil per year. Easy money for Utd.
The Aubameyang and Dembele cases are unlike the Sancho one. They both burnt bridges with Dortmund to force a move through, do you genuinely think Sancho will do the same? Not to add, with Dembele, Barcelona still ended up paying 150m anyway.
Unless we end up paying what they want and get him to somehow force through a move, I really don't see this happening. I just don't think we can afford it. I'd really like to be proven wrong, cause I would love no-one more than Sancho here, but people are severely underestimating the circumstances around not just the club, but the World right now.
We could be smart and get someone like a Dembele in, with just as much talent, with a point to prove, on loan maybe and then invest the remaining Sancho money into other parts of the squad that need to be strengthened too.
Of course. I just don't think we are in a rush to make a concrete bid until after EL.
A company valued at billions of dollars is not going to account for their finances that simply. We need to account for potential reduction in sponsorship revenue due to covid, reduction in matchgoing revenue, reduction in tv coverage etc and the long term implications these things could have. It's not as easy as just using money we probably can't justify because we may or may not get 10 years of good service out of him.
In regards to your first point; my apologies, I was under the impression you were referring to the start of our season.
Why would Dortmund give us their best player on the cheap? If we want him we got to pay for him. He’s actually worth more than €120 in today’s market. They are not desperate to sell him because in all honesty if they keep him they get another year or two of his services. It’s win win for them. Sell him for what they feel he is worth or get another season out of him and hopefully do well.
If we can afford it, we simply need to cough up
If we can afford it, we simply need to cough up
And the 10 years part is fantaisist. Sancho isn't signing a 10 year contracts and even if he did only the first 5 years would actually be enforceable. The club will only consider 5 years, anything beyond that is entirely on the player.
I doubt it's ever that amicable in this kind of bartering unless youre talking players who you actively want to get off your books.
I do think large clubs go the extra mile for special players though. Covid or not, this has happened in the past and imo will happen in the future. Madrid did it for Hazard. Barcelona for Griezmann, Dembele Countinho. PSG for Neymar. Liverpool spent big on VVD, Allison and Keita in a short span of time. I know your post has more to do with accounting but you make provisions for big moves. We spent nearly a whopping 200 million in Oles first season as permanent manager. I mean, half this forum wants us to spend 400 million on a 5-6 players. Ole just happens to believe this one player is more important than a couple of others.
Also on an unrelated point, our biggest issue with teams that sit back, will be solved a) through better team play but also b) brilliant technical players who can create space where there doesn't seem to be much. As much as I like our front trio I think this is a big reason why Ole and many people want us to sign Sancho so badly. He has better dribbling qualities than even Martial and that would really add a whole new dimension to this team especially against teams that park the bus. The whole objective is for teams sitting back to become a terrible ordeal for them and not for us.
Has Sancho got a longer contract or hasn't he? Is Zorc lying or isn't he? Who cares and what does it matter?
1) All credible reports suggest United have agreed personal terms with Sancho and his agent. The figures and length of contract have even been leaked. Do you really think both sides would go through that process without mentioning the length of his current deal? Come on.
2) Zorc is a liar. It's been proven before. He'll say what is needed to be said to the media to help benefit Dortmund in transfer negotiations. It's evidenced with facts from previous business. Just look at the same ploy used with Auba and the same comments made about Dembele staying at the club.
3) The talk is the deal is still being worked on. This is from every journalist. Neither side has briefed the 'walk away' headline which is weird given Zorc did a press conference. Even the German media haven't flat out shut the door on it. It's pretty obvious something is still happening behind the scenes.
4) Sancho has said nothing. So Dortmund have got every man and his dog going public on this one inside the club but oddly enough we've heard nothing from the player himself. Not even his agent. It's quite clear Dortmund, much like with Zorc's statement, are using this to help with their negotiations. Sancho keeping quiet fits with what's been reported about him having agreed a deal elsewhere.
Ultimately it's a waiting game but I see nothing to suggest this is dead in the water yet. Infact quite the opposite. Dortmund are digging in but with no official bid from United yet and no brief that the club have walked away it's very obvious despite the fee wanted we are still in for the player. Let's see what happens and enjoy the ride. If Sancho and United want this to happen it will.
1) All credible reports suggest United have agreed personal terms with Sancho and his agent. The figures and length of contract have even been leaked. Do you really think both sides would go through that process without mentioning the length of his current deal? Come on.
2) Zorc is a liar. It's been proven before. He'll say what is needed to be said to the media to help benefit Dortmund in transfer negotiations. It's evidenced with facts from previous business. Just look at the same ploy used with Auba and the same comments made about Dembele staying at the club.
3) The talk is the deal is still being worked on. This is from every journalist. Neither side has briefed the 'walk away' headline which is weird given Zorc did a press conference. Even the German media haven't flat out shut the door on it. It's pretty obvious something is still happening behind the scenes.
4) Sancho has said nothing. So Dortmund have got every man and his dog going public on this one inside the club but oddly enough we've heard nothing from the player himself. Not even his agent. It's quite clear Dortmund, much like with Zorc's statement, are using this to help with their negotiations. Sancho keeping quiet fits with what's been reported about him having agreed a deal elsewhere.
Ultimately it's a waiting game but I see nothing to suggest this is dead in the water yet. Infact quite the opposite. Dortmund are digging in but with no official bid from United yet and no brief that the club have walked away it's very obvious despite the fee wanted we are still in for the player. Let's see what happens and enjoy the ride. If Sancho and United want this to happen it will.
Not a fan of Dembele, to be honest.
Absolutely. However sometimes those fantasies do come true. Rooney was a really expensive signing at the time. But in the context of a decade of brilliance and becoming our lead goalscorer, it's not as important a fact (although still a fact that needs to be accounted for).
.....And Barcelona are now desperate to get rid of them.
Why would that be awkward, Dortmund fans know the financial reality of their club, like most football fans. The only way for Dortmund to be regularly relevant against wealthier clubs is to sell players for a high profit and replace them with players a group of players that allow them to maintain their level. There is nothing awkward about it, that's how football works for 99% of clubs, the likes of United, City, Barcelona or Real Madrid aren't the norm.
But you don't plan on that, you hope but you don't plan. It would be like organizing your wedding before the first date, arranged marriage excluded.
There'd be some logic to that I suppose from a squad focus perspective. If we win the Europa League we're €10m better off as well and we'd have some time to sell Smalling who could fetch another €20m (not up front obviously).
Well that’s just the issue itself isn’t it, as others have responded to your post, how can you or anybody know that one journo isn’t just sat at home tweeting ‘clubs in talks’ without having any contact with the club.
Literally you or I could do that and your argument shows that people (like yourself I assume) believe some of those, so in effect a blue tick and a couple of correct guesses gets you into tier 1.
Let’s not go over old ground. It’s clear some hang on the likes of Romano’s every word, when he’s brought literally nothing to the table in this transfer, in fact the opposite. So I just find it grating that the whole thread revolves around the likes of him.
Would he be eligible to play in the EL for us if he signs soon?
The thing I dont understand from what you said about agreeing a fee etc, is if the two clubs did agree a fee then wouldn't that just mean the deal would be done? I thought we can't agree on a fee with them? Maybe im misunderstanding something.
And regarding financial losses for Sancho if he puts in a request, wouldn't he make up for those losses in joining us and having more sponsorship deals/exposure?
Do you think he's not too bothered about coming to United? It appears that way to me.
Well I agree with the bold part, I do think we’ll end up paying the full amount and if Sancho really wants to come I’m sure he’s notified the board already to accept a reasonable bid when it comes in. He might not publicly request to leave but I’m sure he has in private. Providing the reports in the media are true and he wants to come to us. Zorc is well known to play games in the media so I wouldn’t take much notice in what he says. However, once we brief the media we’ve pulled the plug, then it obviously is not happening.
Now in regards to Dembele, his injury record worries me a lot and we already have a lot of injury prone players at this club. He apparently has attitude problems on top of that. Not an ideal target if you ask me, despite being talented. It takes more than that to become a successful footballer.
Yeah, the big clubs will probably lose around 100m due to covid this year only. And if it don’t get better we will probably see around 50-100 loss next year too (realistically).
United can wait to sign Sancho to late september and save £2m in salary. Right now we probably trying to get some deadwood off the books too. Smalling, Rojo, Lingard would be nice to ship out (if that means we can go for Sancho and pay full 120m).
This is true. The pricing for the best players is almost a totally different marketplace of its own.
I think we should cough up 100 mill in the initial payment, for the longer term benefit of the squad it’s worth it.
Ive voiced my concern about Greenwood being a long term RW, I’d rather him (when he’s ready) rotate with Martial in that no 9 spot. So let’s get a proper RW in now, rather than waste money on lesser players.
Just to start, I absolutely agree with you about how influential he would be for us and I'm sure the club are aware of that too. That being said, during a time when there is uncertainty around just about everything, spending 120m on a single player, especially when we haven't even had the best luck with our 'big' transfers over the past few years is something to be very cautious of. You've got clubs like Madrid, Barca etc. who are generally notorious for big transfers, who are reluctant to spend anything currently.
The only clubs who this won't impact too heavily will be the state backed clubs imo. Everyone else will be very cautious for who knows how long.
Our finances have already been impacted heavily and if they don't predict it getting any better anytime soon, I find it hard to believe they'll be able to justify spending such a sum on a player. These are figures we would have been wary of spending pre-covid. Hopefully I'm wrong though, because Sancho here would be a match made in heaven.
You'd get caught out doing that sooner or later. There's a reason some mainstream papers/journos are on the banned list on here for tweets etc and others are viewed as very reliable if not infallible.
I didn't say it was from him directly, i said it was from the Podcast he was on with that Christian Falk guy, the @cfbayern who knows his German football stuff, he seemingly said it
It's a good point, but I don't think we need both 1) Jadon to force a move and 2) us paying the desired amount in order to push the move. I think we will be able to get him if we put 120m EUR on the table tomorrow for example. Dortmund have an issue with price, and that stance is loosened if Jadon weakens them with a push or we just cough up.
That's a possibility, obviously your guess is as good as mine in that regard, there's just a lot of things to consider here, which I think go against us. They've heavily pushed the media agenda about him staying, almost necessarily, which is very counterproductive to a team trying to portray themselves as not being pushovers. Which is why I'd figure Sancho would need to push for a move.
More importantly though, I don't think we'll ever pay what they want and with the use of an intermediary and the reported delayed negotiations, it seems pretty clear they have little interest in reducing their valuation.
We'll see though, hopefully we get some positive news soon
It looks so familiar to the Pogba saga you only thing you had to do need to replace Di Marzio/Fabrizio. The italin journos who was also repeating himself during Pogba's dull and long transfer. The same meltdowns, atmosphere and the same blaming game. Unbelevealbe.
Fans sometimes can be so fickle. What would the red cafe look like when Kenyon fecked up a transfer for Ronaldinho in the same summer that he's sold his prized jewell in David Beckham. Heads will be rolling ....
We have no competition for this even Chelsea gave up matching United's proposals just like Madrid did when they gave up on Pogb. It's happining. إن شاء الله .
Ed will prevail. He dosn't miss up these type of transfers .
Fans sometimes can be so fickle. What would the red cafe look like when Kenyon fecked up a transfer for Ronaldinho in the same summer that he's sold his prized jewell in David Beckham. Heads will be rolling ....
We have no competition for this even Chelsea gave up matching United's proposals just like Madrid did when they gave up on Pogb. It's happining. إن شاء الله .
Ed will prevail. He dosn't miss up these type of transfers .
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Clubs like Napoli with vastly inferior resources to us are spending over 70m on one player and they have no European football. All this talk of the pandemic affecting Utd is lame excuses from fans who are afraid of criticizing the club. Utd are still one of the wealthiest clubs in the world and all the supposed 90m we have/had in the bank and the 140m loan we withdrew must count for something when you factor in we`ve gotten a lot of revenue for qualifying for the CL and possibly more revenue for playing in the EL or even winning it if we are lucky.
You think it`s bad the club is already losing money now you know what`s worse? Not making the necessary investment needed in the team that can not only make us underperform in the PL but even make us miss out on CL football again which will be another loss compounded on what is already there and to those optimistic people who think there is no chance we don`t get top 4 we went from 2nd to 6th under Jose/Ole don`t rule out anything. Does it not make more sense to take that hit now, get the necessary players in and even if fans do not come back to the stadiums for a while good performances on the pitch which lead to more revenue and prize money from maybe winning a trophy and getting CL football again compensates for any losses as well as preventing the chance of facing financial consequences of not being good enough on the pitch?
Are they hoping we stump up EUR 120m before Sancho gets annoyed and puts in a transfer request...then we get him for EUR 80m ? Alternatively they take 80m, don't upset the player or fans by giving them false hope.
It's a big risk. Zorc is playing with the Dortmund fans, we know he has said this type of thing in the past and lost a player.
It's a big risk. Zorc is playing with the Dortmund fans, we know he has said this type of thing in the past and lost a player.
True
This intermediary thing is what really gets me annoyed about Dortmund.
I can understand holding out for a big fee, I can understand Zorc making all these statements to prop up his stance, even via his players saying how happy they are Sancho "stays".
But what I don't get is - they used an intermediary which is slower to negotiate and then said you have 10th August to get it done. Hirst mentioned himself that Manchester United were displeased at this - we apparently have a good relationship with Dortmund, and the Mkhitaryan deal between the two clubs at least was amicable and without any nonsense liaison negotiators between the clubs. It was all direct communication with only Raiola (rightly) involved for agent matters. Why can't they do the same with Sancho if they are in such a rush?
Is 80m Euros even that low in the current situation? I don't think it's that far off. Maybe 90 to 95m Euros would be about right.
120m euros (or £108m) in these very uncertain times is a piss take. No other club is biting at that price are they?
120m euros (or £108m) in these very uncertain times is a piss take. No other club is biting at that price are they?
If we want him, we will have to pay up. Coman on loan for this season, with him and Greenwood fighting for the right wing spot.
Get Koulibaly in and a DM. and wait until next season for Sancho.
Why is every transfer, a saga with us.
Get Koulibaly in and a DM. and wait until next season for Sancho.
Why is every transfer, a saga with us.
Everyone has been talking of much higher numbers. I doubt we bid 80 million for a player Dortmund want 120 million for other than some early bids.
I think they're hoping they get 1 more year. He's 20 and has 3 years left; what's the rush for them to sell?
Why would Bayern give us Coman in loan though?
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