[Metal]

Clueless post that completely ignores the nuances of tactics and different systems. Ever think many it was Utd who failed those players rather than the other way around?

The only thing clueless are the hordes of fifa loving generation Sancho man fans who think he was worth wasting 75million on and who believe is going to turn into a world class player or some already think he is. The only player the club failed out of my list is Pogba. The others failed themselves through lack of application and complacency., as you can't tell me Maguire and rashford didn't have the club bend over backwards for them on and off the pitch. Neither can you blame Ole or Ralf for Maguire urning out to be a 80 million TItus Bramble 2.0

Others were always hypejobs who are now overpaid after displaying a few good moments of good form because we have fans ready to overrate any player that performs for a small window of time which is a big problem at this club. Thats why we're stuck with players like Mctominay and fred because they'll have the odd decent game against cannon fodder and then we have some fans justifying their place in the team and saying they deserve a chance under a new manager.

As for Sancho, there's a reason why this guy isn't being picked for England and there is a reason why no other big clubs were dumb enough to put in 75 million bids for him in the summer. Doing well in the Bundesliga is one thing, doing it on the international/elite level and prem is another, as Timo Werner found out.

As for tactics, Ralf Ragnick has actually been coaching the players as we see we are more cohesive as a team both in defence and our attack. To the point our play has been a lot more positive than the sit deep and counter attack football of Ole. Ralf who is rated highly as a tactician, has gone out of his way to accommodate Sancho and played him in his preferred position which has resulted in improved performances compared to the annoymous ones he displayed at the beginning of the season, but nothing out of the ordinary.

Southgate who lead England to their first final since 1966 is now recieving dog abuse because he can also see that this guy did nothing this season to merit a place in his squad over players who've put in better performances over the stretch of the season in comparison to Sancho who only started to display something resembling a footballer just 3 months ago.

 

[united for life]

You’ll be disappointed as most managers will play Sancho on the left.

not sure why though. I am not a follower of the bundesliga, but from the times I’ve seen Dortmund play in the last couple of years and from what I have read, Sancho played on the right. His success was on that side. Why change? In addition, the only place Rashford might regain his form at is LW (that is if he ever regains his form). I don’t know, can’t see any reason

 

[Member 109952]

All I hear here are excuses for a player who has been bang average throughout the majority of the season..'' It's the fullbacks not helping him in one game'', ''the players around him are not good enough''. ''The tactics don't play to his strengths'. We ''need a new manager for him'' ''he plays better on the left....no no his best position is on the right ''

When you have to produce so many excuses for a player, alarm bells should start ringing. We did this before with Maguire, ''oh we need a better pacy CB beside him and he'll thrive etc. We've done it with Martial, we done it with rashford we done it with Pogba. Oh they need better players around them bs excuse. If a player is good enough, they will shine through in spite of the players around them.

Now Sancho needs world class full backs, word class forwards and world class midfielders for him to shine.

Sancho was so bad in his first 7 appearances that Ole had no choice but to bench his behind.

You talk about Liverpool threats, Do you think teams don't have to worry about marking Ronaldo, Bruno or Elanga? Are these players not considered threats?

Let me ask you out of the 24 games Sancho has played this seaason, how many times do you think he's been triple marked?

And how many times has our full backs failed to help him change his nappies?

Because for me, 3 goals and 3 assists in the whole entire campaign in all competitions is a pathetic return for a 75 million player.

I don't expect him to dribble past 5-7 players on his own, I expect him to be a consistent threat, i.e get into dangerous positions on the pitch, score goals and make assists, I don't care how he does it. For 75million What I don't expect when we spunk our entire budget on one player is to hear a bunch of excuses. Elanga who is 19 years old is showing more promise and proviiding us with more of threat and has scored just as many goals as this guy. Elanga was unlucky not to score against Athletico if not for a lucky save from Oblak. He also turned up in Madrid and bailed us out, something Sancho failed to do, instead went missing. That's what I expect from a top class player. I don't see elanga needing excuses being made for him, because he gets on with it and delivers.

Sancho hasn't been unlucky he's just been bang average save for a few decent games against shoddy defences.

If Elanga was English, my god this boy would be classed as a world beater by now by our fans and the media, because I rate him better than this guy who has shown so far that he's all hype without any substance.

The only thing clueless are the hordes of fifa loving generation Sancho man fans who think he was worth wasting 75million on and who believe is going to turn into a world class player or some already think he is. The only player the club failed out of my list is Pogba. The others failed themselves through lack of application and complacency., as you can't tell me Maguire and rashford didn't have the club bend over backwards for them on and off the pitch. Neither can you blame Ole or Ralf for Maguire urning out to be a 80 million TItus Bramble 2.0

Others were always hypejobs who are now overpaid after displaying a few good moments of good form because we have fans ready to overrate any player that performs for a small window of time which is a big problem at this club. Thats why we're stuck with players like Mctominay and fred because they'll have the odd decent game against cannon fodder and then we have some fans justifying their place in the team and saying they deserve a chance under a new manager.

As for Sancho, there's a reason why this guy isn't being picked for England and there is a reason why no other big clubs were dumb enough to put in 75 million bids for him in the summer. Doing well in the Bundesliga is one thing, doing it on the international/elite level and prem is another, as Timo Werner found out.

As for tactics, Ralf Ragnick has actually been coaching the players as we see we are more cohesive as a team both in defence and our attack. To the point our play has been a lot more positive than the sit deep and counter attack football of Ole. Ralf who is rated highly as a tactician, has gone out of his way to accommodate Sancho and played him in his preferred position which has resulted in improved performances compared to the annoymous ones he displayed at the beginning of the season, but nothing out of the ordinary.

Southgate who lead England to their first final since 1966 is now recieving dog abuse because he can also see that this guy did nothing this season to merit a place in his squad over players who've put in better performances over the stretch of the season in comparison to Sancho who only started to display something resembling a footballer just 3 months ago.

Amen. Good player but never worth £75m.

 

[Member 109952]

In my opinion, 75m for that player was an absolute bargain. You're stuck with views about football that might have been true in the early 2000s but not anymore. Pace is vastly, vastly overrated. And Sancho isn't even slow to begin with. I think you should try to broaden your horizon a bit. Your tactical nous seems to stop after double and triple marking players. Your team isn't good enough currently to not be neutralized by a cynical and very cohesive unit that Atletico is. You need much better ball retention, poitional play etc. for that to work. You aren't there yet and once you are, Sancho will show what he's showing against weaker opposition against stronger teams as well.

I guarantee you that Diaz would've looked shit for you yesterday, too. And not only he would but basically every player. I think it's time people understand that there are no players anymore who can play well when your team is dominating. Even cracks like Neymar, Messi, Mbappe or Cristiano have looked completely anonymous when the opposition team managed to dominate their own in the past 5-6 years. Even Cristiano in his prime didn't touch the ball when matched up aganst Pep's Barcelona. Atletico simply was the better and more cohesive unit yesterday. And that's fine, they've been coached by an elite coach for over a decade and are probably the best of the bunch when it comes to neutralizing teams. Move on and ask yourself how you can improve as a team (not necessarily individually). Because no matter who you would have put in Sancho's place yesterday, it wouldn't have changed the utcome of the game.

It's never a bargain, I'm sorry but you're blinded by your Bundesliga bias. Players like Lookman and Demary Gray show pretty much what Sancho does in the PL, are they worth £75m too? Playing for a super attacking Dortmund team against poor defences has everyone fooled.

Vinicius, Mbappe, Ousmane Dembele, players like that, you sign for £75m and you can say you may have a bargain. On tactics, yes the team play matters, but having a player that can beat a man and create space is huge for any team, in fact most top teams have such a player on at least one wing. Look at Salah - that goal he created against City earlier in the league. Or how Bale used to play stretching play. It makes a huge difference to your ceiling as a player if defenders know that they can just stand you up because you won't be able to dribble past them very often.

(Also side note - personally Cristiano's dribbling prime was 06/07. After 08/09 he morphed into a forward and never really dribbled with the same pace and control ever again).

 

[Powderfinger]

Sancho certainly deserves inclusion over Smith-Rowe on recent form, no argument there.

I think in the big picture the problem for Sancho is where he fits into the squad positionally. Southgate seems to like Saka and Foden on the right and Sancho hasn't done much for England or United at RW to show that he would be better than them at that position. Meanwhile, Sterling is one of Gareth's golden boys and seems a lock to be his LW. So Sancho is really competing with Grealish and Smith-Rowe for the backup LW position, but both of them have more versatility because they can also play as a CAM in a 4-2-3-1 or as an 8 in a 4-3-3.

 

[elnorte]

For a long time now United fans have been desperately clinging on to the idea that we still have some of the best players in the game. The recent disproportionate praise for Sancho is just another tired embarrassing example.

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

It's never a bargain, I'm sorry but you're blinded by your Bundesliga bias. Players like Lookman and Demary Gray show pretty much what Sancho does in the PL, are they worth £75m too? Playing for a super attacking Dortmund team against poor defences has everyone fooled.

Vinicius, Mbappe, Ousmane Dembele, players like that, you sign for £75m and you can say you may have a bargain. On tactics, yes the team play matters, but having a player that can beat a man and create space is huge for any team, in fact most top teams have such a player on at least one wing. Look at Salah - that goal he created against City earlier in the league. Or how Bale used to play stretching play. It makes a huge difference to your ceiling as a player if defenders know that they can just stand you up because you won't be able to dribble past them very often.

(Also side note - personally Cristiano's dribbling prime was 06/07. After 08/09 he morphed into a forward and never really dribbled with the same pace and control ever again).

Totally agree. Sancho's main weakness is his lack of pace and inability to beat his marker. Sancho is dependent on strong runners around him. Pogba, Ronaldo and Telles are not strong runners.

 

[Bondi77]

We paid 75million for this guy to turn up for big matches like last night. Instead he got marked out of the game and turned into Marcus Sancho.

Once prem defenders figure all you got to do is double up on him he's going to get exposed real quick. He'll no doubt look decent against teams who gives him acres of space, but against good defences he'll do nuttin. The Bundesliga made him look a better than he is, there acres of space to attack in behind & players stand off you with the balk at your feet which suited Sancho. Don't get me wrong he is a solid player but not a 75 million 250k per week player. You pay that for a difference maker. Not someone who lacks explosive pace to go beyond players and has a small repertoire of cute little tricks that dazzle a few moments in a game and then easily goes missing when the going gets tough.

Luiz Diaz who cost a fraction of the price is already terrorising defences with pure pace, power and strength with incredible bag of skills on both wings without a host of excuses needing to made for him. No one in Liverpool cries that defenders are trying to mark him or about fullbacks not supporting with Pampers nappies, because he's such a good player that he finds a way.

Ronaldo always use to get double triple marked in his prime with defenders literally trying to break his legs every week, yet he still was such a talent that he found a way around it. I don't see that happening with this guy.

He is a 30-40mil player at the most, we got rinsed and now we just have to accept it.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

He is a 30-40mil player at the most, we got rinsed and now we just have to accept it.

New league, new team, already played under 3 different managers, having a car crash of a season. Atleast give him some time to turn it around. We can get the pitchforks out if he continues to perform poorly next season as well.

He has improved a lot lately and I can only see him do good under a more stable regime.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

Sancho's main weakness is his lack of pace and inability to beat his marker

I've seen him run past players with ball at his feet, and I've seen him dribble past players, sure, he isn't as explosive as Adama Traore, but he has plenty of pace

 

[Anustart89]

He is a 30-40mil player at the most, we got rinsed and now we just have to accept it.

A 21-year old player who has registered an average of 30+ goal contributions in the last three seasons is a 30-40m player? If you can find a squad full of those deals I think you’ll have plenty of job offers from clubs all around the world.

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

I've seen him run past players with ball at his feet, and I've seen him dribble past players, sure, he isn't as explosive as Adama Traore, but he has plenty of pace

Not compared to most top wide forwards. Salah, Mane, Jota, Mbappe. In which games in the PL has he beaten any defender by pace? 9 times out of 10 he runs at the defender for a few yards, stops and passes sideways or backwards. A 40m player with a 35m English tax. Similar to Maguire and AWB.

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

A 21-year old player who has registered an average of 30+ goal contributions in the last three seasons is a 30-40m player? If you can find a squad full of those deals I think you’ll have plenty of job offers from clubs all around the world.

Jota, 40m, 13 PL goals
Sancho, 73m, 3 PL goals

We have terrible scouts.

 

[Bondi77]

New league, new team, already played under 3 different managers, having a car crash of a season. Atleast give him some time to turn it around. We can get the pitchforks out if he continues to perform poorly next season as well.

He has improved a lot lately and I can only see him do good under a more stable regime.

He is a decent technical player, no more, no less.

 

[Bondi77]

A 21-year old player who has registered an average of 30+ goal contributions in the last three seasons is a 30-40m player? If you can find a squad full of those deals I think you’ll have plenty of job offers from clubs all around the world.

Only this season counts mate

 

[ayushreddevil9]

He is a decent technical player, no more, no less.

Did you say the same when you watched him playing for Dortmund?

 

[edcunited1878]

fecking hell, the underrating of Sancho since the England squad has been released for meaningless friendliness is hilarious.

Such deluded people.

 

[Anustart89]

Jota, 40m, 13 PL goals
Sancho, 73m, 3 PL goals

We have terrible scouts.

One’s playing as a central forward in a team that is settled and scores goals for fun and one is a mostly playmaking winger (who was initially benched by the manager that bought him because he didn’t know what to do with him) in a dysfunctional team.

Are you going to point out that Matip cost nothing and has more defensive headers than Sancho too?

Look, I’m not saying he’s been setting the world on fire, but I don’t think that if we’d spent £40m on Jota we’d get close to as much out from him as Liverpool have, and if Liverpool had signed Sancho to combine with Robertson on their left wing we’d have called him a bargain at £75m, and if we are to progress as a football club we’d be better off if we shaped the rest of the team to suit Sancho rather than getting rid of him because we intend to go with a play style that wouldn’t suit him.

 

[goptun]

Jota, 40m, 13 PL goals
Sancho, 73m, 3 PL goals

We have terrible scouts.

Do you seriously think Jota would be banging in goals if he was playing in this United side? It's why literally all of our players have had shit seasons (De Gea might just get away with it, although his kicking has put us under massive amounts of pressure in games and is a significant issue). Look at Sancho's numbers for Dortmund. His record for goals and assists was bettered only by Mbappe at one point. His goal involvement rate as a 21-year-old was better than Rooney's, Michael Owen's, and Robbie Fowler's. Obviously the German league isn't the PL, but it suggests he's got top-rate ability. He won't properly flourish until we sort out the managerial situation, though.

 

[Anustart89]

Only this season counts mate

You’ve only decided on that timeframe because it suits your nonsensical argument that’s not based one bit in reality. What do you reckon Dortmund would’ve said if we tabled a £30-40m bid in the summer? They would’ve rightly told us to feck off.

Just because we have an extraordinary ability as a club to make players look worse than at their previous club due to the lack of direction over the past decade doesn’t mean that we overpaid for him at the time, which is what you’re inferring by labelling him a £lowamount player.

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

One’s playing as a central forward in a team that is settled and scores goals for fun and one is a mostly playmaking winger (who was initially benched by the manager that bought him because he didn’t know what to do with him) in a dysfunctional team.

Are you going to point out that Matip cost nothing and has more defensive headers than Sancho too?

Look, I’m not saying he’s been setting the world on fire, but I don’t think that if we’d spent £40m on Jota we’d get close to as much out from him as Liverpool have, and if Liverpool had signed Sancho to combine with Robertson on their left wing we’d have called him a bargain at £75m, and if we are to progress as a football club we’d be better off if we shaped the rest of the team to suit Sancho rather than getting rid of him because we intend to go with a play style that wouldn’t suit him.

So you prefer Sancho at 73m over Jota at 40m? I would take Jota everyday.

 

[Cassidy]

Jota, 40m, 13 PL goals
Sancho, 73m, 3 PL goals

We have terrible scouts.

Yes the scouts are the issue, not the fact Liverpool have Klopp and we had Ole

 

[Cassidy]

So you prefer Sancho at 73m over Jota at 40m? I would take Jota everyday.

Compare their records over and above just this season and include assists, I think you'll find Sancho might come out better

 

[flameinthesun]

Compare their records over and above just this season and include assists, I think you'll find Sancho might come out better

Sancho may turn out the better player, but I doubt he ends up being twice as good as Jota which is effectively what their transfer prices reflect.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Jota, 40m, 13 PL goals
Sancho, 73m, 3 PL goals

We have terrible scouts.

Liverpool have a world class manager.

 

[Cassidy]

Sancho may turn out the better player, but I doubt he ends up being twice as good as Jota which is effectively what their transfer prices reflect.

Pretty sure his numbers were more than twice as good before this season

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

Do you seriously think Jota would be banging in goals if he was playing in this United side? It's why literally all of our players have had shit seasons (De Gea might just get away with it, although his kicking has put us under massive amounts of pressure in games and is a significant issue). Look at Sancho's numbers for Dortmund. His record for goals and assists was bettered only by Mbappe at one point. His goal involvement rate as a 21-year-old was better than Rooney's, Michael Owen's, and Robbie Fowler's. Obviously the German league isn't the PL, but it suggests he's got top-rate ability. He won't properly flourish until we sort out the managerial situation, though.

It is quite obvious that stats from the Bundesliga do not mean much in the PL. The last guy Mhiki who we signed also had great stats in the same inferior league. Hopefully Sancho will do better if we rebuild around him and Bruno.

 

[flameinthesun]

Pretty sure his numbers were more than twice as good before this season

In a weaker league. Let's not pretend like the trend hasn't been for bundesliga players to struggle to replicate form and numbers in the premier league. Our club has enough experience in that, even more so with Dortmund.

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

Liverpool have a world class manager.

And scouts. And you need to scout managers as well.

AWB vs Robertson
Maguire vs van Dijk
Bailly vs Matip
Pogba vs Fabinho
Sancho vs Jota
Mhkitariyan vs Mane

Overpaying for mediocre players for too long now.

 

[Cassidy]

And scouts. And you need to scout managers as well.

AWB vs Robertson
Maguire vs van Dijk
Bailly vs Matip
Pogba vs Fabinho
Sancho vs Jota
Mhkitariyan vs Mane

Overpaying for mediocre players for too long now.

So now Sancho is a mediocre player...

 

[Cassidy]

In a weaker league. Let's not pretend like the trend hasn't been for bundesliga players to struggle to replicate form and numbers in the premier league. Our club has enough experience in that, even more so with Dortmund.

In any league. Jota also played in the championship and Portugal and didn't get anywhere close to Sanchos output in a better league than those.

 

[Pickle85]

People already writing him off is mental. There's a class player there and I can't wait to see him in a functional team proving some people wrong.

 

[Bondi77]

Did you say the same when you watched him playing for Dortmund?

Yes....and I said the same about Kagawa and Mikki

 

[elnorte]

fecking hell, the underrating of Sancho since the England squad has been released for meaningless friendliness is hilarious.

Such deluded people.

Given the club he plays for the rating of him is entirely justified.

 

[Bondi77]

You’ve only decided on that timeframe because it suits your nonsensical argument that’s not based one bit in reality. What do you reckon Dortmund would’ve said if we tabled a £30-40m bid in the summer? They would’ve rightly told us to feck off.

Just because we have an extraordinary ability as a club to make players look worse than at their previous club due to the lack of direction over the past decade doesn’t mean that we overpaid for him at the time, which is what you’re inferring by labelling him a £lowamount player.

Well you just have to read between the lines mate!
Which other club was bidding for him at the time??
Dortmund could smell the Utd desperation and yet again we pay the extra 40% Utd tax on the player.

 

[Cassidy]

Given the club he plays for the rating of him is entirely justified.

You mean the club with no players performing at the top level for at least 5 years

 

[elnorte]

You mean the club with no players performing at the top level for at least 5 years

Well he fits right in to a club drowning in rubbish to just above average players.

 

[Cassidy]

Well he fits right in to a club drowning in rubbish to just above average players.

With not even average management and coaches

 

[Raven]

This thread is a fecking train wreck.

 

[Lyng]

fecking hell, the underrating of Sancho since the England squad has been released for meaningless friendliness is hilarious.

Such deluded people.

Its insane really. And I am not surprised by the selection. Southgate's style of football doesnt suit Sancho. It suits a player like Maguire. Low block, hit on counter.
It boring as feck and with the talent England have they could play much more interesting football, but never with Southgate as a manager.