Jadon Sancho | £72.9M fee agreed

Status
Not open for further replies.
Not worth the money & overhyped IMO.

Certainly interesting he can't get in a very pedestrian England side. What is Southgate not seeing? Might be one of those players who suits the Bundesliga but will struggle in the premier league.
 
Certainly interesting he can't get in a very pedestrian England side. What is Southgate not seeing? Might be one of those players who suits the Bundesliga but will struggle in the premier league.

What has International football got to do with Premier League?
 
Certainly interesting he can't get in a very pedestrian England side. What is Southgate not seeing? Might be one of those players who suits the Bundesliga but will struggle in the premier league.

 
I gotta be honest here, every time this left/right wing argument comes up I question if people actually watch Dortmund play or just look at the position on the spread sheet

For over a decade now and under multiple coaches (be it Klopp, Tuchel, Favre or Terzic) one trademark for Dortmunds attack was always fluid positions in the final third. The offensive midfielders, especially the wide players are not supposed to hold their flanks the whole time (that is largely the job of the full/wingbacks) but are supposed to roam and interchange frequently. Nowhere can this be seen as clearly as when Sancho and Reus share the pitch. They cross each other frequently, creating overlap on a side to shift attention of the opposing defenders and open spaces that way. They also don´t have a side they favour here to lessen predictability which leads to a very balanced offensive approach. Over the last season they build up the exact same percentages of attacking plays over both sides (38%), which is actually rather uncommon as teams usually prefer one side over the other (United for example builds up more over the left side). Sancho plays the side where he can have the most impact depending on the situation.

As for this whole argument about Sancho only being truly effective on the counter and being predicted to struggle against deep defenses. This might come as news to people who still equate Dortmund to the pressing and transition machine it was under Klopp, but they have not been a primarily counter based team for a long time now. Sure, they are able to punish harshly on the break due to the pace the attack has and enough players who are capable to play accurate long passes, but this is still not their dominant way to score goals. They averaged 60 % possession last season (level with Leipzig and behind Bayern in that regard in the league) and played the highest number of passes in the Bundesliga with around 620 per game (that is nearly 50 more than United averaged last season). These are not statistics for a counter team, but a team that is tasked in the majority of the games to be the active creator of the play and break open defenses.

Jadon Sancho has been extremely valuable in that regard. He is a creative player with good (but not outstanding) acceleration, exceptional close control, skilled in 1v1 and has a very good eye for opened passing and running paths. Another often overlooked part of his ability to create space is his very smart off the ball movement which has improved greatly in his time with Dortmund (I believe that he learned a lot in that regard from Reus, who is a master in that). He often makes (or fakes) runs that demand the attention of defenders which open options for his teammates, the largest benefector of this being Haaland who directly moves in that space to create danger.

In short, Sanchos entire skill set is made for breaking up defensive lines.
I completely agree with you and have said on countless occasions that your width comes via your fullbacks. But the fundamental difference is that your team has a concept on how to play the game which has been developed over a long period of time. United don't have a concept in transition as things stand and hence we don't look a fluid team. And that's mostly down to the tactical approach, lack of quality in the build up and a lack of quality in certain positions.

So Sancho playing on the right with Hakimi in the wide space (who is superior in attack to AWB) along with the likes of Dahoud and Witsel etc in the right sided CM role, provides a control and fluidity which really helps the collective. Our midfield (Mctominay-Fred) isn't as good as yours on the ball either, so unless we adopt a more proactive approach next season and implement it successfully, I can't see us being a more fluid team going forward.
 

Same reason he’s choosing Mount ahead of Grealish. He‘s probably got a bit of PTSD over playing with Gazza all those years ago and felt a more serious character would have saved him from ever needing to take a penalty.
 
People banging on about the system and how he won't fit without realising Sancho is the type of player you build teams around.
 
This kind of contradicting. England and United are pretty similar on their style and setup. Why would Sancho fit in at United then?
Not really. Our biggest issue in attack is that we play too narrow due to lack of creativity on the right side.
 
He's not just another player - he's a truly exceptional talent of the level you build around, just as you would with others in that bracket of talent. We should be looking to upgrade midfield and full-back anyway, with or without Sancho here as they're not good enough.

Even if we don't optimise Sancho, he is considerably better than what we have here, but if you want the Ballon d'Or level threat, you have to make concessions for the player as he's not some individual dynamo who just does his thing with no care for the team, which is not as disappointing as it sounds as you'll struggle to find even top tier players whose game isn't wholly catered for to enable to be the best they can be.

Someone like a fit Dembele vs Sancho was the debate when the possibility was there of either one coming here. It's a solid debate to have as you have two polar opposite, but equally effective styles; one you just drop into a side and he'll do tremendous things, whilst being erratic, but all detached from the team construct/ethos, and the other, far more consistent and robust in what he offers, but needs more working parts to really show his best. But that's a redundancy as there isn't an [available] equivalent talent to Sancho in an individualistic measure given Dembele is a crock and Mbappe - who is part A and part B - is never coming here other than as an opponent.

I think what gets lost is that we are talking about one of the best right attackers in the world over the last 3 seasons. Concerns about the outlay and what we are are fair enough, but the way some people throw away what he's done to be worth what he is is ridiculous.
Fair enough, mate. I have doubts but most likely yours proven right. Maybe because I'd prefer a more direct winger, like Juve's Chiesa (or whisper, the healthy and consistent Rashford). But i don't know who others available.
 
If goals are that important - Saka has scored 12 for Arsenal, Sancho who is a year older has scored 50.

And yet again somebody completely missing the context. Sancho is probably ahead of Saka at the moment. Haven't seen anyone say he's not. I'm certainly not saying that.

However had Sancho been playing in that poor Arsenal side over the last 2 years he'd have nowhere near as many goals and assists as he currently does. Likewise put Saka in Dortmund's team and he'd have a lot more.
 
What has International football got to do with Premier League?

A lot actually.

Teams at International level are usually well drilled like most teams in the PL are so they actually know how to defend and don't stand on the half way line with theirs pants around their ankles and let Bayern and Dortmund run riot like they do in the Bundesliga. What's the German for park the bus? Is it even a thing?

Sancho can be truly devastating if afforded the space and at certain moments in games he will get that space. But how many teams are going to play a highline against us with Rashford and Sancho playing? They won't will they. Why? because they know pace is our biggest weapon.
 
And yet again somebody completely missing the context. Sancho is probably ahead of Saka at the moment. Haven't seen anyone say he's not. I'm certainly not saying that.

However had Sancho been playing in that poor Arsenal side over the last 2 years he'd have nowhere near as many goals and assists as he currently does. Likewise put Saka in Dortmund's team and he'd have a lot more.

if your aunt had balls..... you can't state a fiction as fact, poor trolling buddy
 
Just had a look back through that account’s tweets and to be honest it’s mostly nonsense. Would be best if it’s not posted here.

I think that's Raees' account.
 
Fair enough, mate. I have doubts but most likely yours proven right. Maybe because I'd prefer a more direct winger, like Juve's Chiesa (or whisper, the healthy and consistent Rashford). But i don't know who others available.
You have to also take into consideration Sancho may come here as a RWF, but a few years down the line could easily move inside or be placed on the left. He's eclectic, so not bound to any particular role, which makes him even more valuable as you're getting a multi-positional player who is chief understudy to a number of roles whilst playing whatever one he's deployed in in a given run of games.

I don't think there's a single thing wrong in having a preference for a different kind of wide player, but if they aren't an equivalent level of talent to Sancho, you have to question what the benefit then is when you have Greenwood and the two teenagers to come in over the next few years who could rival anything in the £40m-£60m bracket themselves.
 
Need England out ASAP so this can get done. All England fans in here who support Utd should be with me. #englandoutsanchoin
 
Certainly interesting he can't get in a very pedestrian England side. What is Southgate not seeing? Might be one of those players who suits the Bundesliga but will struggle in the premier league.


tenor.gif
 
Same reason he’s choosing Mount ahead of Grealish. He‘s probably got a bit of PTSD over playing with Gazza all those years ago and felt a more serious character would have saved him from ever needing to take a penalty.
:lol:
I've heard the players have a restricted area where they are allowed to mess around but the second they enter into the main building all fun must end and the character of the players must enter a level of severity. They call it the South Gate.
 
Performing well in the English Premier League has no correlation what so ever to performing for the England national team.
Well a player has to play well for their club to be selected in the first place and While there have been plenty of players that have not performed there have been plenty that have. This is representative football after all and there could be a multitude of reasons why players cannot take their form to a new stage and it would be the same for a player to play in a different league.
 
Well a player has to play well for their club to be selected in the first place and While there have been plenty of players that have not performed there have been plenty that have. This is representative football after all and there could be a multitude of reasons why players cannot take their form to a new stage and it would be the same for a player to play in a different league.

As Roy Keane would say, you are talking utter nonsense.
 
A lot actually.

Teams at International level are usually well drilled like most teams in the PL are so they actually know how to defend and don't stand on the half way line with theirs pants around their ankles and let Bayern and Dortmund run riot like they do in the Bundesliga. What's the German for park the bus? Is it even a thing?

Sancho can be truly devastating if afforded the space and at certain moments in games he will get that space. But how many teams are going to play a highline against us with Rashford and Sancho playing? They won't will they. Why? because they know pace is our biggest weapon.

I suggest you read some of the responses in the previous pages esp from Dortmund fans. Sancho is fast but not rapid fast. His skillsets are precisely about breaking down low block teams, creating space for others and seeing passing angles when others dont.
 
We scored 121 goals across all competitions. Our biggest amount in a single season since 2006/7...

I wouldn't say it's bad at all considering that our supposed first choice no.9 only contributed 7 to that total.

Also, how many 9-0s do you see? And do they happen with regularity when the opposition has a man sent off early? Can't think of many others off the top of my head, can you? How many times have we scored 5 or more in a game under Ole compared to the other managers we've had post-SAF?

We're by no means perfect, but we're a damn sight better than what you make us out to be IMO.
We also had what, seven 0-0s in the league?

We're not a free-scoring side by any measure. We're a team with direct and quick attackers, ideal for counter-attacking football, and we're therefore capable of running up the score when the opponents give us space, a la Roma, Leeds or Southampton. That doesn't equal 'scoring for fun', at least not how I'd use the term.
 
As Roy Keane would say, you are talking utter nonsense.
Utter nonsense would be you can play shite for your club and still be selected to represent your country as there is no correlation.
As Catherine Tate would say....What a load of old shit!
 
If Sancho doesnt start next match - all we will have seen of him is a 12min cameo as England crash out in the last 16. Southgates assesment of him might be all knowing - but hes got a saka, grealish, bellingham and rashford all ahead of him. If Sancho was a £100mil talent, youd find space for him. I think his value should be going down but those jarmans seem to be pushing it up.....and we are going for it. Mental!!
 
If Sancho doesnt start next match - all we will have seen of him is a 12min cameo as England crash out in the last 16. Southgates assesment of him might be all knowing - but hes got a saka, grealish, bellingham and rashford all ahead of him. If Sancho was a £100mil talent, youd find space for him. I think his value should be going down but those jarmans seem to be pushing it up.....and we are going for it. Mental!!
But you support Cardiff City. He's not coming to you (sorry not sorry).
 
We also had what, seven 0-0s in the league?

We're not a free-scoring side by any measure. We're a team with direct and quick attackers, ideal for counter-attacking football, and we're therefore capable of running up the score when the opponents give us space, a la Roma, Leeds or Southampton. That doesn't equal 'scoring for fun', at least not how I'd use the term.
Weren't we the top goalscorers in the league for like 90% of the season, with City overtaking us during their excellent run of wins?

We score more than many give us credit for imo.
 
Are Dortmund still considering this bid that we made a while ago now?
Did we write it in Egyptian Hyroglifics? Are they trying to decipher it to see what we've actually offered? Seems to have gone very very quiet!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.