FujiVice
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- May 8, 2013
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True, but still a surprise considering when the chips were down, McMahon always went for muscles.Because Bret Hart was far superior, obviously.
True, but still a surprise considering when the chips were down, McMahon always went for muscles.Because Bret Hart was far superior, obviously.
Rooney, RVP, Chicharitohas anyone mentioned that Fergie had four strikers yet
We will rather play Rashy upfront imo than spend another 50m for a strikerI think we need two central strikers who will provide a box threat and Zirkzee from the little I've seen of him doesn't provide that and he looks like a player who will be occupying positions where you would find Bruno Fernandes. Zirkzee is a facilitator to the likes of Rashford and Garnacho which should see them getting more opportunities to shoot on goal due to the Dutch player's ability to make the ball stick when he drops deeper.
It does make sense to sign a alternative striker to Højlund who will pin the opposing CBs and cause a box threat by stretching the opposition vertically. Zirkzee isn't that player.
He will be close to 30 by then, which is a huge Caf nonoWhy on earth would we spend 50 million on him. I hope we do a Madrid and look to get him for free next season
Rashy sadly doesn't have the quality to provide a threat in a central role and his inability to hold play, win duels and a lack of effort when closing down space would be counter productive to the team.We will rather play Rashy upfront imo than spend another 50m for a striker
I dont disagree, I just said it is the likelier optionRashy sadly doesn't have the quality to provide a threat in a central role and his inability to hold play, win duels and a lack of effort when closing down space would be counter productive to the team.
I also don't think it will take £50m to add the aforementioned qualities which are qualities that create a functional team from back to front.
Since Ronaldo left we’ve not had much of a goalscorer. Just Rash with his purple patch. We’re desperate for goals. Toney absolutely needs signing.
Don't know if you ever watch osw on YouTube, but if you haven't you need to.Two quick-time replies. Wasn't expecting that.
Luger got well and truly fecked. From Narcissist heel to All-America, Red, White and Blue patriot with cringey bus-tour gimmick in a couple of weeks, not to mention that white-meat Duggan-esque entrance music. A count-out win followed by the entire lockerroom coming out to celebrate Luger not winning the belt..............was (ugh) inspired stuff. It's really not on Luger..........and most certainly not on Ivan Toney.
Toney's best season in the PL saw him return goals at almost exactly the same rate Hojlund did last season. 0.43 per 90 versus 0.42 per 90. And in his other two seasons he returned at near half that rate, 0.22 & 0.25.
There are arguments to be made for Toney, but anyone who advocates for him because "we need a goalscorer" is badly misreading both the type of player he is and a record inflated by penalties and minutes.
Don't know if you ever watch osw on YouTube, but if you haven't you need to.
But then you're forgetting that he's doing it at a Brentford, a fairly humble club who are enjoying a few seasons in the premier league then will fade back to the championship.
I've never particularly been a Toney fan, having found him a right arrogant sort against my boys Wycombe when he was at Peterborough.
But he'd be an interesting option at the right price.
But then you're forgetting that he's doing it at a Brentford, a fairly humble club who are enjoying a few seasons in the premier league then will fade back to the championship.
I've never particularly been a Toney fan, having found him a right arrogant sort against my boys Wycombe when he was at Peterborough.
But he'd be an interesting option at the right price.
The two Ronnies had fork ‘andles.Did you know that forker has 4 strigoi ?
Sure, but the comparison I'm making is with Hojlund last season, where we were almost exactly as creative a side as Brentford have been over the last couple of seasons.
United 23/24 - 57 goals (56.5 xG)
Brentford 23/24 - 57 goals (58.2 xG)
Brentford 22/23 - 58 goals (56.3 xG)
If we're arguing that Toney would fare better in a better attack, the same applies to Hojlund. Except Hojlund is at an age where you would expect more chance of him improving anyway .
No issue with people wanting Toney, especially for the right price, but if they're expecting him to be a big improvement on what we already have in terms of actual goalscoring then they're setting themselves up for disappointment.
not taking these rumours serious yet. Hopefully we get CB, LB and CM sorted ASAP then can work on these luxury deals.
Toney would would fit our system and our strikers will finally have competition.
We need to close these ones and maybe Doure (sp) before we even consider Toney. I must say though that our scouting for the RCB has left me a bit disappointed, we need to move on Branthwaite because Everton are hell bent on skinning us alive and go to more realistic and affordable options. We should only go beyond £50m for truly special players.So De Ligt, Kadioglu and Ugarte although he has more of a DM than a CM profile
I think we need two central strikers who will provide a box threat and Zirkzee from the little I've seen of him doesn't provide that and he looks like a player who will be occupying positions where you would find Bruno Fernandes. Zirkzee is a facilitator to the likes of Rashford and Garnacho which should see them getting more opportunities to shoot on goal due to the Dutch player's ability to make the ball stick when he drops deeper.
It does make sense to sign a alternative striker to Højlund who will pin the opposing CBs and cause a box threat by stretching the opposition vertically. Zirkzee isn't that player.
Pinning the CBs vertically via a target through the middle can create space horizontally for the fullbacks and wide forwards to run into. Zirzkee isn't a guy who will look to pin the CB but rather he's someone who will come deeper to make the ball stick and facilitate for others. He's not someone who will take a lot of shots on goal himself but with him holding the ball up and making it stick, will potentially allow the wide forwards to take even more shots on goal.Pinning centre backs is a great idea when you have a load of #10-style needle players who like to operate between the lines, run at defenders, and play quick combinations. That pretty much describes Amad and Sancho on a good day. The rest of our players (and I'd include Bruno here) ideally want to be running beyond the defensive line. For that, I would say you're better off dragging defenders away.
Don't get me wrong, I love strikers. I want us to sign all the strikers. But it's way down the list of priorities for me now that we've got Zirkzee coming in.
Pinning the CBs vertically via a target through the middle can create space horizontally for the fullbacks and wide forwards to run into. Zirzkee isn't a guy who will look to pin the CB but rather he's someone who will come deeper to make the ball stick and facilitate for others. He's not someone who will take a lot of shots on goal himself but with him holding the ball up and making it stick, will potentially allow the wide forwards to take even more shots on goal.
I'm not really too bothered about the striker myself and my primary concern is to improve the attack by raising the level at the back and in deeper midfield. But I can see why Toney would be a good alternative to Hojlund in the short to mid-term for the reasons stated above.
You need to look at each team's xG playing with and without Hojlund and Toney, to have a better idea of how they affect the team's total xG, as it is not independent from the striker's quality in open-play outside of goals and assists.
Some strikers make the team better overall. And it is possible Hojlund lower's his team's overall xG, and Toney raises his team's overall xG, despite scoring or assisting at a similar rate themselves.
How would you fit all of those players into the team? I'm curious to see what your thoughts are on this.This is why I'm very happy with the signing, and I'd say he'll be a big benefit to the likes of Mount and Bruno attacking the box from central positions too. I feel like I keep banging on about Lewis Ferguson, but Zirkzee was a huge help in getting a player who nobody thought much of a year ago to winning Serie A midfielder of the year.
You need to look at each team's xG playing with and without Hojlund and Toney, to have a better idea of how they affect the team's total xG, as it is not independent from the striker's quality in open-play outside of goals and assists.
Some strikers make the team better overall. And it is possible Hojlund lower's his team's overall xG, and Toney raises his team's overall xG, despite scoring or assisting at a similar rate themselves.
Remarkably, Brentford have scored more goals in the 22 matches he missed than they did in Toney’s last 22 appearances before his suspension
....
Generally working well as a collective and sharing the load when it comes to scoring goals, Brentford’s Expected Goals (xG) per 90 has actually risen from 1.52 to 1.78 this season.
While longer matches and a general increase in goals may be a contributing factor, that level of improved attacking output shows Brentford did a terrific job in a creative sense without Toney.
How would you fit all of those players into the team? I'm curious to see what your thoughts are on this.
I'd love him here. Don't understand some of the negativity surrounding this. We can't go into a season with just Hojlund and Zirkzee up top
Tight budget but are throwing 40mil bids everywhere, apparently bid 21m for Ferdi Kadıoğlu too.I agree he offers us a lot and is proven in the league. But unless we going 442 again which I can’t see as ETH has never used that formation long term. Does seem odd when we supposedly have a tight budget and our midfield and defence is in need of surgery.
Tight budget but are throwing 40mil bids everywhere, apparently bid 21m for Ferdi Kadıoğlu too.
Must be gambling on players leaving
EDIT: that was so unintentional it’s ridiculous
I'd love him here. Don't understand some of the negativity surrounding this. We can't go into a season with just Hojlund and Zirkzee up top
I'm not saying that eiher. I'm speaking about his reputation being so big despite 1 standout season at the top level. Everytime he scores a pen theres a case study.How many years do you need to watch a player before you recognise what he could offer? I think he's performed at a good level for a long enough period in the PL, personally.
So he has, penalties aren't free goals and you can't discount them just to suit your arguement. He could be on pens for us as he has one of the best records of current footballers. But that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying we should sign another forward as we don't have any reliable goalscoreres. Toney would also bring us something different like a forward who isn't scared of heading the ball.Neither has Toney though. The season he got 21, 6 were pens. He won't be on pens with us.
It's clear as day most of our forwards can't be counted on, especially to score goals. People get attached to players so duds get a longer grace period than they should. If Toney is available for 25-30M I don't see why not as a rotation option. We need an overhaul up front as our current options are embarrassing for a team with ambition.I think it depends on the post/poster - glass half full or half empty viewpoint. Some will go “I like xxxxx, hope he kicks on” and some ”I’ve watched xxxxx for a few games, he’s not good enough, let’s spend another £50m” (that we haven’t got).
For example, I’ve seen posters backing Sancho![]()