Ivan Toney Pt.2 | Signs for Al Ahli

[Bluelion7]

He doesn't fit the INEOS model of 18-24 year old players. But then again nor does Rabiot and we may sign him. I think Toney will be disruptive if he isn't playing regularly.

Rabiot is a free, and even then I expect will be on not-too-horrible wages. And he can not only earn starts, he can fill in at at least two spots, and as a smart veteran midfielder has been used to being on very good teams that required players to rotate. Don’t think he will be an issue.

Even if Toney comes on a free he will expect to start, true. There is also the question of what his contract demands will be. He might want a 4 year deal at 250k+ a week. He relies a lot more on imposing himself with physical attributes than a Rabiot does.

That contract wouldn’t start til he was 29 … will he be the same guy at 33?

At 50m signing him would be almost PSR suicide.

They should have sold him a year or two ago when people were offering 60 to 75. That would have made the book value of his account yang and his yearly PSR hit reasonable for the expected return.

 

[Sandikan]

Rabiot is a free, and even then I expect will be on not-too-horrible wages. And he can not only earn starts, he can fill in at at least two spots, and as a smart veteran midfielder has been used to being on very good teams that required players to rotate. Don’t think he will be an issue.

Even if Toney comes on a free he will expect to start, true. There is also the question of what his contract demands will be. He might want a 4 year deal at 250k+ a week. He relies a lot more on imposing himself with physical attributes than a Rabiot does.

That contract wouldn’t start til he was 29 … will he be the same guy at 33?

At 50m signing him would be almost PSR suicide.

They should have sold him a year or two ago when people were offering 60 to 75. That would have made the book value of his account yang and his yearly PSR hit reasonable for the expected return.

Did anyone actually ever offer those sort of fees? Would be quite surprised.

 

[mintyred]

Toney isnt going to come here as a rotation option though. He will want to start most games, and at that point his lack of non penalty goals becomes an issue, especially since we are not getting him for 25 to 30.

He's not going to join us and expect to start every game, that's obvious, and he doesn't lack non-penalty goals ffs. You guys just yap on this forum.

 

[Sandikan]

I thought it was perfect too, but Johnson/Werner seem to be the pairing they want on the wings for pure pace and to push teams back, which leaves Son though the middle, so maybe they aren’t interested either!

That's a combination that saw them come 5th last season, so if they're looking to improve they need to try something better?

 

[Maluco]

That's a combination that saw them come 5th last season, so if they're looking to improve they need to try something better?

I actually think it will fall apart for them this season. The cracks were there during the run in. Some good wins, but beaten by anyone decent, and usually conceded 3-4 goals. It’s suicide football and he won’t change.

So, not really saying he won’t want to improve, just that he is set on his ideals and Toney might not fit in those.

 

[Lyng]

He's not going to join us and expect to start every game, that's obvious, and he doesn't lack non-penalty goals ffs. You guys just yap on this forum.

Given his age his amount of non penalty goals is quite low. At least when taking his fee in to account.
He will expect to start each Premier League game yes. Thinking otherwise is naive when you take his personality in to account.

 

[Bluelion7]

Did anyone actually ever offer those sort of fees? Would be quite surprised.

Apparently before he was suspended verbally replied that his price should be closer to 60m and Brentford chiefs were “insulted and outraged”.

60 over 5 years would have been stretching but doable for book. If you could keep his wages down around 200, because he hadn’t already signed a pricier extension, all the better. And he would only have been 31 at the end of contract. Anyway, I think 2 years ago someone would have done it.

 

[Sandikan]

Apparently before he was suspended verbally replied that his price should be closer to 60m and Brentford chiefs were “insulted and outraged”.

60 over 5 years would have been stretching but doable for book. If you could keep his wages down around 200, because he hadn’t already signed a pricier extension, all the better. And he would only have been 31 at the end of contract. Anyway, I think 2 years ago someone would have done it.

Clubs can set a price as anything, but you suggested they'd actually turned bids down around that level?
I don't think that happened did it? Or he'd have been straight off!

 

[Bluelion7]

Clubs can set a price as anything, but you suggested they'd actually turned bids down around that level?
I don't think that happened did it? Or he'd have been straight off!

Sorry, my post was supposed to include the team that made the “informal” bid suggesting his value, at the time, should be closer to 60. The team that made the approach was Arsenal in the article from nearly two years ago I read.

What I find truly entertaining are the articles that seem more like Brentford briefs, with Thomas Frank reminding us “he will be expensive!” almost as a psychological counter to the stories about a willingness to lower the price to the 50 area.

I’ve seen the same story, just slightly different wording, every two to 3 days from different outlets, and it makes it seem like they are desperate to keep Toney in the conversation; and he’s really not.

 

[croadyman]

Fair play to Athletic article keeping his name relevant

 

[devilish]

He's 28 year old, who has 1 year left in his contract, who hasn't scored for his club since February and who has attitude issues. £50m is too much for him.

 

[golden_blunder]

no more than 30m. It’s absolute nonsense that he’s worth more

 

[croadyman]

no more than 30m. It’s absolute nonsense that he’s worth more

OK I will push it up to £35m but that should be the absolute cut off, particularly if he wants to run down contract as suggested

 

[Devil_forever]

no more than 30m. It’s absolute nonsense that he’s worth more

You're not serious? Do you know how few proven strikers there are? He's in his prime and you expect Brentford to sell for £30m? His goals would mean the difference between relegation and survival for them, it would make no sense to sell at that price, even with a year left. £60m is probably more realistic.

 

[Highfather_24]

There's absolutely no reason we need a third striker, when we play with one striker in our system, apart from pure muppetry.

 

[didz]

You're not serious? Do you know how few proven strikers there are? He's in his prime and you expect Brentford to sell for £30m? His goals would mean the difference between relegation and survival for them, it would make no sense to sell at that price, even with a year left. £60m is probably more realistic.

We sure he's in his prime? He's scored 4 goals in his last 17 games for Brentford, none in his last 12, and before that was twiddling his thumbs for 8 months.

He's very much a player who - at 28, no less - needs considerable help and support to get back to his top level, while also being one who has made it clear he wants to leave his club, with whom he has only 1 year left on his contract.

Brentford and/or Toney have a whole summer to seriously consider their expectations, because no top club is gonna give them everything they want based on the above.

 

[croadyman]

There's absolutely no reason we need a third striker, when we play with one striker in our system, apart from pure muppetry.

What IF (big one) we switched to more of a 4-2-2-2

 

[LawCharltonBest]

There's absolutely no reason we need a third striker, when we play with one striker in our system, apart from pure muppetry.

Recent form aside his goal scoring record in the PL is good considering he’s at Brentford

Neither Zirkzee or Hojland are proven goalscorers, and only have 1 PL season between them

I see a lot of benefit in getting him in

 

[croadyman]

You're not serious? Do you know how few proven strikers there are? He's in his prime and you expect Brentford to sell for £30m? His goals would mean the difference between relegation and survival for them, it would make no sense to sell at that price, even with a year left. £60m is probably more realistic.

Would agree if he wasn't in last year of contract, however unlike Yoro he's not a young generational talent. He could definitely offer something to our forward line that's missing though

 

[Highfather_24]

Recent form aside his goal scoring record in the PL is good considering he’s at Brentford

Neither Zirkzee or Hojland are proven goalscorers, and only have 1 PL season between them

I see a lot of benefit in getting him in

If we didnt have confidence in Zirkzee's goalscoring we shouldnt have got him. Its not about whether Hojlund/Zirkzee are good enough, its about squad space.

 

[croadyman]

Recent form aside his goal scoring record in the PL is good considering he’s at Brentford

Neither Zirkzee or Hojland are proven goalscorers, and only have 1 PL season between them

I see a lot of benefit in getting him in

It's just whether we can get them down to around £35m which is going to be the difficult bit

 

[golden_blunder]

You're not serious? Do you know how few proven strikers there are? He's in his prime and you expect Brentford to sell for £30m? His goals would mean the difference between relegation and survival for them, it would make no sense to sell at that price, even with a year left. £60m is probably more realistic.

You’re overrating him, Brentford barely picked him 2nd half of last season and have already bought his replacement. He’s not the player you think he is anymore.
If we pay anything close to 60m for him then that person wants shooting

 

[croadyman]

You’re overrating him, Brentford barely picked him 2nd half of last season and have already bought his replacement. He’s not the player you think he is anymore.
If we pay anything close to 60m for him then that person wants shooting

Yeah just over half of that is acceptable offer

 

[Maluco]

You're not serious? Do you know how few proven strikers there are? He's in his prime and you expect Brentford to sell for £30m? His goals would mean the difference between relegation and survival for them, it would make no sense to sell at that price, even with a year left. £60m is probably more realistic.

I like Toney, and I think he would contribute so much more to the team’s overall play, but his best PL season was 14 non-penalty goals. We absolutely have to believe that Rasmus can surpass that by a margin

 

[croadyman]

I like Toney, and I think he would contribute so much more to the team’s overall play, but his best PL season was 14 non-penalty goals. We absolutely have to believe that Rasmus can surpass that by a margin

I still believe with the likes of Bruno and maybe Zirkzee supplying him he can improve that

 

[Maluco]

I still believe with the likes of Bruno and maybe Zirkzee supplying him he can improve that

I am hoping that quicker/better defenders and a more athletic midfield will mean we can push higher up and offer him more support. Some of his finishes last season were top class, but with Rashford moping and Garnacho playing with his head down, he was often stranded and midfield struggled with the void all season.

A better set-up is bound to help him and he will get more goals than last season. If he can even get to 16-17 non-penalty goals, surely money on Toney would be foolish when we need so much elsewhere?

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Great point. United fans seem to give certain players a pass and think they should be immune from competition. If most are honest, if Hojlund had signed for Liverpool and was their sole striker we would be saying he underperformed and doesn't show massive potential. Similar to how we talked about Nunez.

The idea that Hojlund will become a leading striker for us is more hope that based on reality. The way he played in the Euros was similar to how he played most of the season for us....a bit meh. I hope I'm wrong but if we signed Toney I think he'd be number 1 fairly quickly as he would show he is currently better. And that's fine. It's then for Hojlund to improve and earn his place in the team. He hasn't done that yet.

Toney brings more than goals he brings players in really well. I'd love him here. He reminds me of Vardy. People will keep talking about him as not being good enough until he retires but big clubs will regret not getting him.

I think it would be a mistake to sideline Højlund's progress in favor of Toney getting minutes. Toney would be stopgap only, and I'd only play him to close out games when our main striker has tired. On a free or for the numbers mooted for an AWB, maybe. But I don't see his goals outpacing the goals Højlund will score in this new-look United side. I'd rather bring Ennis or Wheatley into the first team.

 

[croadyman]

I am hoping that quicker/better defenders and a more athletic midfield will mean we can push higher up and offer him more support. Some of his finishes last season were top class, but with Rashford moping and Garnacho playing with his head down, he was often stranded and midfield struggled with the void all season.

A better set-up is bound to help him and he will get more goals than last season. If he can even get to 16-17 non-penalty goals, surely money on Toney would be foolish when we need so much elsewhere?

IF (big one) passing on him meant we could sign a second midfielder instead then understand the decision, otherwise I would still take him for around the £30-35m mark.

 

[welshwingwizard]

I think it would be a mistake to sideline Højlund's progress in favor of Toney getting minutes. Toney would be stopgap only, and I'd only play him to close out games when our main striker has tired. On a free or for the numbers mooted for an AWB, maybe. But I don't see his goals outpacing the goals Højlund will score in this new-look United side. I'd rather bring Ennis or Wheatley into the first team.

I think that would be a fair argument if he had proven that he was the right player in the wrong team. But how much have we seen to suggest that is the case. Its not like he is Ruud in disguise waiting for the other bits to click. He hasn't shown much so far to warrant faith that he will come good. Ultimately he could turn out to be like AWB. A player that we don't have cover for and who is just not good enough to be a starter for us.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Very, very overrated player.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

IF (big one) passing on him meant we could sign a second midfielder instead then understand the decision, otherwise I would still take him for around the £30-35m mark.

The way people are talking about Toney being a good scorer in a poor team who just needs a better set around him, seems eerily/scarily like what was said about Lukaku. Lukaku!!

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

I think that would be a fair argument if he had proven that he was the right player in the wrong team. But how much have we seen to suggest that is the case. Its not like he is Ruud in disguise waiting for the other bits to click. He hasn't shown much so far to warrant faith that he will come good. Ultimately he could turn out to be like AWB. A player that we don't have cover for and who is just not good enough to be a starter for us.

Sample size too small to make that call just yet.

 

[Escobar]

Last player we need currently

 

[welshwingwizard]

Sample size too small to make that call just yet.

That may be. But the risk in not having competition is too high. He should earn his place. It's wierd fans put his progression over the good of the team.

If he is good enough then they can rotate - its a long season. If not he gets on the bench but we don't suffer as a team from him not fulfilling the potential he may have. He isn't owed anything from us though. He needs to take it like top players would.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

That may be. But the risk in not having competition is too high. He should earn his place. It's wierd fans put his progression over the good of the team.

If he is good enough then they can rotate - its a long season. If not he gets on the bench but we don't suffer as a team from him not fulfilling the potential he may have. He isn't owed anything from us though. He needs to take it like top players would.

I think you have it backwards: Højlund's progression is the good of the team.

 

[croadyman]

Last player we need currently

Why do you think that?

 

[Escobar]

Why do you think that?

We dont need a striker after Zrkzee and we have limited funds which need to go to midfield and fullbacks

 

[croadyman]

We dont need a striker after Zrkzee and we have limited funds which need to go to midfield and fullbacks

I don't see Zirkzee as a number 9, more of a wide forward. I agree we need a FB (can ideally play both sides) and DM & CM

 

[Escobar]

I don't see Zirkzee as a number 9, more of a wide forward. I agree we need a FB (can ideally play both sides) and DM & CM

We will either play with him or Hoijlund upfront, or together. But no chance will we buy another striker in this window

 

[croadyman]

We will either play with him or Hoijlund upfront, or together. But no chance will we buy another striker in this window

Still not saying no chance if his price comes down but highly unlikely I will give you that