It took 60 minutes to get a shot on target.

Chelsea just walked the league. Their fans, the media, neutrals, their own players, every knows they're capable of producing title winning football despite that match. No one is convinced about us in that regard. We're the ones who have to prove we are capable.

Our performance was more of an adherence to standard, whereas theirs was a deviation from it. That's the key difference.
 
It's funny how many people keep harping on about how we need a new striker and all (maybe we do), but I don't know what any other striker would have done yesterday, we struggled to create anything of note. The passing was slow and the creativity was almost non-existent, I've seen less talented teams attack better, so, I don't agree that signing a few players will suddenly change everything. It's a coaching thing in my opinion, LVG has to coach this team into an effective attacking unit, we don't force things enough, it's really not good enough!
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Chelsea just walked the league. Their fans, the media, neutrals, their own players, every knows they're capable of producing title winning football despite that match. No one is convinced about us in that regard. We're the ones who have to prove we are capable.

Our performance was more of an adherence to standard, whereas theirs was a deviation from it. That's the key difference.
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Bingo.
 
I just want to say that people need to realise how pragmatic our aproach was today. It was all about result. Schneiderlin and Carrick (later Schweinsteiger) sat deep just in front of defence to break their attacks and it work. The way i saw the game LVG tactics was first don't concede goal and try to score one on the break and we did exactly that.
And you need to give credit to LVG that he left out DDG with this tactics. As he said in every interview GK is all about focus and concetration. DDG is one of the best goalkeppers at that, hence his little number of errors, but if he is not focused at the moment he is not the GK we saw today.

I think that our aproach will get more and more attacking with games and maybe with one or two signings infront. The example what can we expect was when Young had a shot on target. You need to watch Schweinsteiger in that attack, he gave a ball to the winger and run into a box and instanly gave problems to Spurs defence. We didn't saw that many times yesterday because as i sad LVG probably instructed our players not to risk and expose us on the break. But this was always one of the most important part of LVG tactics and we will se more of it. One of the holding midfielders staying back and one helping attack. We will probably see Herrera much more in the starting lineup when we will be drilled enough to do that with right setup to break any counter attack if we lost a ball.
 
As bad as Chelsea were, they still had more purpose to their attacking play than ours, when they broke forward, the passes were crisp and fast. I'm tired of all these excuses, we need to see some good football.
 
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Insanity said:
What? So, it's okay for us to play shit as long as Chelsea play shit. Got it.
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Yes. Of course it is. My point is that champions rarely do play well all the time. I watched Chelsea last year play some awful football and they were comfortably champions.

My point is in the preimer league there is hardly any teams who look good more than 7/8 times a year. If you're Real Madrid/Barcelona/Bayern there is so much dross in your league that you win so many games about 4-0/ 5-0 that it warps fans view of the team. We've been complaining about our performances on RedCafe for six years now. Minimum. If you aren't satisfied with our performances for that long, maybe you need to change your perception of how good we need to play.

Again we just beat the fifth best team in the prem at home on our first game, with our squad not finished and a small preseason. If you're looking at the runaway champions of the league and saying "They play shit" then maybe, what constitutes "shit" needs changing.
 
legball said:
As bad as Chelsea were, they still had more purpose to their attacking play than ours, when they breaked forward, the passes were crisp and fast. I'm tired of all these excuses, we need to see some good football.
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That's the crux of it.

/forum.
 
legball said:
As bad as Chelsea were, they still had more purpose to their attacking play than ours, when they breaked forward, the passes were crisp and fast. I'm tired of all these excuses, we need to see some good football.
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This is actually true. Particularly till they went a man down, their fluidity going forward was quite nice. They were a bit rubbish in the final third but they moved it about and towards the goal very well.
 
Twigginater said:
Yes. Of course it is. My point is that champions rarely do play well all the time. I watched Chelsea last year play some awful football and they were comfortably champions.

My point is in the preimer league there is hardly any teams who look good more than 7/8 times a year. If you're Real Madrid/Barcelona/Bayern there is so much dross in your league that you win so many games about 4-0/ 5-0 that it warps fans view of the team. We've been complaining about our performances on RedCafe for six years now. Minimum. If you aren't satisfied with our performances for that long, maybe you need to change your perception of how good we need to play.

Again we just beat the fifth best team in the prem at home on our first game, with our squad not finished and a small preseason. If you're looking at the runaway champions of the league and saying "They play shit" then maybe, what constitutes "shit" needs changing.
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I don't agree with that all. You cannot dismiss the glaring deficiencies in our play and weird decisions simply by saying that "no one plays well all the time".

Chelsea were brilliant in the first half of the season last year. City have played some of the best football in the league regularly. Liverpool played great football when they finished second. Yes, you are right that no one can play great football every week, but to say that teams only play good football for only 7-8 games out of 38 games is plain wrong.

No one is asking us to beat the opposition 4 or 5 nil each game, don't make shit up to make your point. Everyone knows that you cannot be on top of your game every week, and at times you do have to grind results, but to say that it is acceptable to give only a limited number of good performances is pre-preposterous. I think it's you who needs to raise your expectations.
 
legball said:
I know, but there's too many excuses now. At home, 1 shot on goal and people are defending such dour football.
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I am agreeing with you, mate. I am baffled that people are defending the football we played last night.
 
I watched norwich yesterday and even they can attack better than us through fast crisp passing. We must have the slowest attack in the league
 
Insanity said:
I don't agree with that all. You cannot dismiss the glaring deficiencies in our play and weird decisions simply by saying that "no one plays well all the time".

Chelsea were brilliant in the first half of the season last year. City have played some of the best football in the league regularly. Liverpool played great football when they finished second. Yes, you are right that no one can play great football every week, but to say that teams only play good football for only 7-8 games out of 38 games is plain wrong.

No one is asking us to beat the opposition 4 or 5 nil each game, don't make shit up to make your point. Everyone knows that you cannot be on top of your game every week, and at time do have to grind results, but to say that it is acceptable to only give a limited good performances is pre-preposterous. I think it's you who needs to raise your expectations.
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Chelsea were brilliant in the first half of last season. Liverpool were good two years ago. These are your excuses to say good football happens quite often.

Honestly it's the simple truth. Chelsea won the league last year playing average football for a lot of it and grinding out wins. They had 14 results last year where they won by more than 1 goal against the other team in the league. That's it. They won the league grinding out 1 goal leads and yesterday was the perfect example of us doing the same. For all their superior nature to us last year they scored 11 more goals. Aka 1 goal more every four games (or there abouts)
 
Whilst it was frustrating to see, I'm glad we managed the win regardless of a thing else.

I'm sure we'll become more of a goal threat in the next few weeks. I just hope LVG doesn't keep messing about with formations and playing people out of position.

On the plus we looked better defensively, when Rojo returns it'll be stronger still.

I don't like the playing it out from the back every time though. It's too predictable and we will get caught out. Puts way too much pressure on the Kepler and CDs
 
Twigginater said:
Norwich lost 3-1 to Crystal Palace.
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Exactly. But they had 1 goal unfairly ruled out and a penalty decision that was blatant go against them. They still moved with more purpose. It was much more entertaining than our game
 
Twigginater said:
Chelsea were brilliant in the first half of last season. Liverpool were good two years ago. These are your excuses to say good football happens quite often.

Honestly it's the simple truth. Chelsea won the league last year playing average football for a lot of it and grinding out wins. They had 14 results last year where they won by more than 1 goal against the other team in the league. That's it. They won the league grinding out 1 goal leads and yesterday was the perfect example of us doing the same. For all their superior nature to us last year they scored 11 more goals. Aka 1 goal more every four games (or there abouts)
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They were brilliant in the first half, decent in the second half, and grind out results when they needed too. City have been good constantly. Even Arsenal play better football than us. Top teams play good football for a majority of times, I am actually flabbergasted that you are making a point against it.

Chelsea didn't play average football, they took the foot of the pedal once it became clear that they would win the league easily. One goal wins don't mean that they played shit football. I don't know why you are making that comparison. One of the most exciting games I saw was the '04 (or was it 05'?) FA cup final, and we couldn't score a goal in that, which doesn't imply that we played shit football.

I am sure Swansea would have scored lower number of goals than us, though even with their inferior players they played a more attacking brand of football. With the players we have, we should be playing better football. Or are you suggesting that we can only win by playing tugrid football?
 
Insanity said:
They were brilliant in the first half, decent in the second half, and grind out results when they needed too. City have been good constantly. Even Arsenal play better football than us. Top teams play good football for a majority of times, I am actually flabbergasted that you are making a point against it.

Chelsea didn't play average football, they took the foot of the pedal once it became clear that they would win the league easily. One goal wins don't mean that they played shit football. I don't know why you are making that comparison. One of the most exciting games I saw was the '04 (or was it 05'?) FA cup final, and we couldn't score a goal in that, which doesn't imply that we played shit football.

I am sure Swansea would have scored lower number of goals than us, though even with their inferior players they played a more attacking brand of football. With the players we have, we should be playing better football. Or are you suggesting that we can only win by playing tugrid football?
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I'm saying that tumescent football happens for every club in the league, but if you compare other clubs highlights to 90 minutes of United it is unfair.

We play fine football. We'll win 4-0 soon enough against easier opposition.
 
Twigginater said:
I'm saying that tumescent football happens for every club in the league, but if you compare other clubs highlights to 90 minutes of United it is unfair.

We play fine football. We'll win 4-0 soon enough against easier opposition.
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Yes, it does. The point is it has been happening more than it should at this club. Actually, it happening 80% of the time.

I watch plenty of other games, not just United.

We don't play fine football. You are being a child with your '4-0' comparisons, when no one has mentioned that.

You have made that up and are arguing against it. Hilarious! :lol:
 
I don't think that's the problem lie within possession football but more on the choice done on whom playing upfront.

Young - he works hard but jeez he's painfully limited. He can't beat the player, his crosses are average and he cant cut inside.
Mata - he's a superb player but he is not a winger. He lacks pace and he slows our game
Depay - he's not a central player.

Id say bring a quality RW (Pedro?) and play Pedro as RW, Depay as LW and Mata behind Rooney in a 4-2-3-1. If we need to add more bodies in CM, replace Mata with Herrera in a 4-3-3 formation
 
Insanity said:
Yes, it does. The point is it has been happening more than it should at this club. Actually, it happening 80% of the time.

I watch plenty of other games, not just United.

We don't play fine football. You are being a child with your '4-0' comparisons, when no one has mentioned that.

You have made that up and are arguing against it. Hilarious! :lol:
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Yeah but you don't watch teams consistently. We judge ourselves by these ridiculously high standards when in fairness not many other teams are outperforming us. That's what frustrates me. Even when we were winning titles and scoring the most goals people complained.
 
Twigginater said:
Chelsea were brilliant in the first half of last season. Liverpool were good two years ago. These are your excuses to say good football happens quite often.

Honestly it's the simple truth. Chelsea won the league last year playing average football for a lot of it and grinding out wins. They had 14 results last year where they won by more than 1 goal against the other team in the league. That's it. They won the league grinding out 1 goal leads and yesterday was the perfect example of us doing the same. For all their superior nature to us last year they scored 11 more goals. Aka 1 goal more every four games (or there abouts)
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Just a thought but Arsenal play good football regularly week in week out. They might not always get the result they want but they are entertaining to watch and some of their play is fantastic, I would say over the course of the season they have more good performances than bad. On United though we need to improve our game play, when Fergie was in charge our play was a lot better than it is now, yes we had to grind results out as well but with LVG coming in I expected to see more exciting football. Going by last season there was a few games which were entertaining such as the Spurs game at home, Liverpool home and away. Yesterdays match was awful, I nearly fell asleep watching it, Bastian came on and the chances started to appear for us, Valencia came on and Spurs started getting chances.

My point after all that rambling is that yes we can sustain a level of good football throughout the season and there will be troughs when we have to grind results out, such as yesterday. But to say it doesn't happen is crazy, LVG has spent £250m on players to improve the team and he has but the performances also need to improve. I admire that he has got shot of RVP and Nani, but Rafael I would have kept as backup to Darmian. If we get Pedro then I think things will improve if LVG plays everyone in the proper position, Memphis on the left, Pedro on the right and Mata behind Rooney.
 
Insanity said:
Yes, it does. The point is it has been happening more than it should at this club. Actually, it happening 80% of the time.

I watch plenty of other games, not just United.

We don't play fine football. You are being a child with your '4-0' comparisons, when no one has mentioned that.

You have made that up and are arguing against it. Hilarious! :lol:
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BTW - Just one more thing, we have a Chelsea fan on this forum who has said they've been "good not great" for the past 18 months and that their defence is only "ok"

People are mental.
 
Twigginater said:
I'm saying that tumescent football happens for every club in the league, but if you compare other clubs highlights to 90 minutes of United it is unfair.

We play fine football. We'll win 4-0 soon enough against easier opposition.
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This is a lie.

We've played more negative football then good over the last two seasons. Stop lying to yourself. I think it will get better and will wait before I judge because it's the first game but what we have seen in the majority of games isn't good enough.
 
AbusementPark said:
Just a thought but Arsenal play good football regularly week in week out. They might not always get the result they want but they are entertaining to watch and some of their play is fantastic, I would say over the course of the season they have more good performances than bad. On United though we need to improve our game play, when Fergie was in charge our play was a lot better than it is now, yes we had to grind results out as well but with LVG coming in I expected to see more exciting football. Going by last season there was a few games which were entertaining such as the Spurs game at home, Liverpool home and away. Yesterdays match was awful, I nearly fell asleep watching it, Bastian came on and the chances started to appear for us, Valencia came on and Spurs started getting chances.

My point after all that rambling is that yes we can sustain a level of good football throughout the season and there will be troughs when we have to grind results out, such as yesterday. But to say it doesn't happen is crazy, LVG has spent £250m on players to improve the team and he has but the performances also need to improve. I admire that he has got shot of RVP and Nani, but Rafael I would have kept as backup to Darmian. If we get Pedro then I think things will improve if LVG plays everyone in the proper position, Memphis on the left, Pedro on the right and Mata behind Rooney.
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why is it that when people criticise LvG for his signings, they say Herrera and Shaw are moyes signings but when you have to take money spent, you include them as well? Plus Di Maria is no more at the club so should we still include him?

you really can't see the improvement in results from July 2014(when LvG took charge) to July 2015?

amolbhatia50k said:
It doesn't make anything feel better. It's a good barometer of performance usually, combined with shots on goal. If you have no shots on target, very few shots on goal, you're not attacking well.
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What exactly is a good performance? We had 26 shots (9 on target) and 80% possession in our match against west brom at home. We had 17 shots(4 on target) and 65% possession vs Everton at goodison. Is that attacking enough?

I prefer us winning with less shots on target than losing with 20 shots
 
prath92 said:
What exactly is a good performance? We had 26 shots (9 on target) and 80% possession in our match against west brom at home. We had 17 shots(4 on target) and 65% possession vs Everton at goodison. Is that attacking enough?

I prefer us winning with less shots on target than losing with 20 shots
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A good performance? One that's easy on the eye, where you defend well and importantly regarding the attack, where you create chances and threaten the goal regularly.

As far as our performance in attacking sense goes, this was a poor performance appropriately highlighted by our lack of goal threat and the related statistics thereof.

It doesn't matter what you prefer. Everyone wants to see their team win. Having the preferable result doesn't change the fact that the attack didn't perform well.
 
Twigginater said:
I'm saying that tumescent football happens for every club in the league, but if you compare other clubs highlights to 90 minutes of United it is unfair.

We play fine football. We'll win 4-0 soon enough against easier opposition.
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Wow. How long have you been following United? Forget other clubs, you just need to look at United a few years ago and compare it to the shite served up these days.
 
VP said:
Wow. How long have you been following United? Forget other clubs, you just need to look at United a few years ago and compare it to the shite served up these days.
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When was the last season we played good football in your eyes?
 
Hopefully Rooney/Depay will thump a shot on target right on kick off in our next game
 
It's not a good statistic to see, but I was interested to see that Chelsea only registered three shots on target against Swansea.

I really think too many people are losing their shit based on one game against tricky opposition at a time when many of our players are undercooked.
 
I think people are going a bit over the top. We dominated them last season, home & away even though we didn't win away. I think it was just a bit of a poor performance to be honest. We do need another attacker but I'd rather give it a few games before I start crying about our attack.

As Carrick & Rooney said we could have played better. I think it was more to do with a poor performance rather than poor attackers if that makes a bit of sense.
 
prath92 said:
why is it that when people criticise LvG for his signings, they say Herrera and Shaw are moyes signings but when you have to take money spent, you include them as well? Plus Di Maria is no more at the club so should we still include him?

you really can't see the improvement in results from July 2014(when LvG took charge) to July 2015?



What exactly is a good performance? We had 26 shots (9 on target) and 80% possession in our match against west brom at home. We had 17 shots(4 on target) and 65% possession vs Everton at goodison. Is that attacking enough?

I prefer us winning with less shots on target than losing with 20 shots
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I never said about Herrera or Shaw being Moyes signings and never criticized his signings if you read it I said he has spent £250m on improving the team and he has. I was merely pointing out that the performances need to improve to reflect the players he has at his disposal. I include ADM because he was bought by LVG and not played in his preferred position, although he isn't here anymore he was still a LVG purchase that didn't work out. A good performance is winning matches and playing entertaining football in doing so, once its won then take the foot of the gas and play keep ball.
 
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