But it helps put things into perspective. Against a top 6 team, in a game with few chances, we only managed one shot on target (i hate this stat). Yet our rivals who played teams outside this top 6 dropped points and fared worse.
It took 60 minutes to get a shot on target.
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Yes, and I doubt their fans are happy either.
It's more to counteract the absurd negativity over beating a top 4 contender on the first game of the frigging season.
At present we have 5 points gained on Chelsea from last season and 6 points gained on Arsenal. They both won last season whereas we were beaten, thus giving us a points advantage this early in the season. Small steps people small steps.
At least we can justify why we didnt do as well because we played against better opposition
came to type this.
There was one 'shot' by Schneiderlin that reached the keeper, but it's still not counted. It was very weak though - intended as a pass.
Yes it's weird that when all other teams around us play similarly or worse a few of us compare us to those squads.
You should compare yourself to other teams as that is how you win the league
I really don't think we are going to create lots and score lots of goals, I think a lot of our results will be dependent on whether we score first or not. It's obviously too early to get carried away but I think there will be plenty more games like the one we saw yesterday because of our style of play and how the team is set up.
We also lack pace, skill and creativity in the final third, our front four just isn't quite good enough and I think the key to turning that around will be a top player coming in or depay being a huge success.
We also lack pace, skill and creativity in the final third, our front four just isn't quite good enough and I think the key to turning that around will be a top player coming in or depay being a huge success.
There's no structure to our attacking play and no tempo to our passing. You've got to have one or the other if you want to open teams up.
The early Fergie years were typified by high tempo wingplay which was impossible to resist. The latter Fergie years were slower, but we still had a structure to our wingplay, with quick switches from one flank to the other.
Even Moyes had a shape to how he like us to attack (lots of crosses). It's just that the other facets of his management were lacking.
With LvG I don't see anything. We're too ponderous in the middle to drag players about. We're too slow to get it to the wings to stretch teams. We have no plan to play it behind defences for our striker to get on the ball. There's no target man we try to find. We don't use a 'Lampard' type player who gets into the box and disrupts defences. We don't play Arsenal-like little triangles on the edge of the box. We don't have Yaya to bulldoze through midfields. We don't have a Hazard to slalom past defenders.
Everything LvG does seems to rely too much on his 'philosophy' and trusting the players to work it out for themselves. I'm hoping for more 'character' to our attacking play. I don't even care what that character is. Even if it's Rory Delap long throws. Keeping possession for possession's sake isn't working well enough.
Ashley Young is currently our most dangerous player, despite being one of the least talented. The reason is that he's seemingly the only pragmatist in the team right now. He's happy to try and make things happen, rather than recycling the ball for no particular reason. Fellaini was another one for about 3 or 4 games last season, until teams figured him out.
I can't think of another team in the league that gets less out of its players than ours. Most other sides are greater than the sum of their parts. I think ours is less.
Still... it's only the first game. There's time to fix things, but I can't see any progress so far.
The early Fergie years were typified by high tempo wingplay which was impossible to resist. The latter Fergie years were slower, but we still had a structure to our wingplay, with quick switches from one flank to the other.
Even Moyes had a shape to how he like us to attack (lots of crosses). It's just that the other facets of his management were lacking.
With LvG I don't see anything. We're too ponderous in the middle to drag players about. We're too slow to get it to the wings to stretch teams. We have no plan to play it behind defences for our striker to get on the ball. There's no target man we try to find. We don't use a 'Lampard' type player who gets into the box and disrupts defences. We don't play Arsenal-like little triangles on the edge of the box. We don't have Yaya to bulldoze through midfields. We don't have a Hazard to slalom past defenders.
Everything LvG does seems to rely too much on his 'philosophy' and trusting the players to work it out for themselves. I'm hoping for more 'character' to our attacking play. I don't even care what that character is. Even if it's Rory Delap long throws. Keeping possession for possession's sake isn't working well enough.
Ashley Young is currently our most dangerous player, despite being one of the least talented. The reason is that he's seemingly the only pragmatist in the team right now. He's happy to try and make things happen, rather than recycling the ball for no particular reason. Fellaini was another one for about 3 or 4 games last season, until teams figured him out.
I can't think of another team in the league that gets less out of its players than ours. Most other sides are greater than the sum of their parts. I think ours is less.
Still... it's only the first game. There's time to fix things, but I can't see any progress so far.
It's a myth that Di Maria played out of position. Maybe in a couple of games where LvG tried him in the robben role and took him away when it didn't work. He played as a winger or AM most other time. A good performance is winning matches as any team in the world would agree. Playing well is secondary. And right now our intention is to get back to winning ways in PL and CL. the board cares about winning leagues or cups or having a good CL season. I really doubt anyone cares how we do it other than a few fans. I like United playing attacking football but i always put winning over style of play meaning I never take solace in 'we lost but it's ok we played well and deserved to win. That's good enough for me.' Pragmatism is a good thing
Yeah but the thing many of us are saying is that we arent creating many chances and havent for a few seasons now. Creating plenty of chances gives a team a better chance of winning. The game against Spurs if everyone is honest should have been a draw in terms of a "fair" result. We won due to an own goal and created very very few chances to score. Thats whats the big worry. We are slow, tentative and confused when playing forward. We have turned into the sideways bob football team. I generally dont care about sideways or back passes if the next movement is forward.
We now remind me of how we were under Dave Sexton. Bloody awful to watch.
A good performance is winning and playing well. If it was just winning a match that made a good performance what would you call the match that we win and play well at the same time. I think with the money spent and the manager we have we should have more exciting football and so far it's been quite lethargic. Bayern and Barcelona have the LVG philosophy and play attacking possession based football so why can't we?
I agree that the board care about results and trophies as that's what the record books show and not how we performed. But fans wanting to go to the matches, want to see a victory but don't want a boring match like the game against Spurs.
Don't presume how much I watch other teams, ask me, I'll tell you the number of times I watch them.
I don't know what happened in the past, wasn't here. The current concerns about our style of play are fully justified. And it's not after one game, it's after a whole year+.
Chelsea fan, who? EssexRob? I am sorry, but he isn't a gold standard of posters.
People are mental, sure; however, in this case it's you and your tag team partner who are telling everyone that every team in the league play shit football and that is the reason everyone should stop worrying about our football, as somehow that makes everything better. You know how preposterous it sounds?
The next United game is on Friday - can I not comment on the game till everyone has played their round? No, even then, if Chelsea or Arsenal or City, play well next week, then it would be one of the 7 or 8 games that they are usually good in, right?
I am sorry to say this mate buy your line of argument that "Premier league is the home of shit football" is totally ridiculous.
Do you think any of our rivals played better than us this weekend?
The problem I see is that LVG thinks we need another winger and the problem will be solved then, while I think it's rather him and his tactics
It is a team selection issue, not a tactical issue. Whether that is LVG's fault is debatable but for me that is the crux of the issue. Plenty of top teams emphasise possession i.e. Barcelona of yesteryear yet they did not struggle to create chances.
LVG needs to sign better attacking players and then we can judge whether it is tactics which are at fault but I believe most managers would struggle to create a cohesive attack around a front 4 of Young, Mata, Depay and Rooney. 3 out of that 4 do not set my pulse racing at all.
I'd be surprised if we've had much more than 10 shots on target since we started pre-season. We must do better in this area this season. Last season, everyone said we just had to build a foundation and get a top 4 finish. This season, we are/were expected to push on further. We cannot, as a blueprint, have a set-up that produces two or three chances per game. We will not always get a goal from them, and we will concede and lose/draw too many.
We have been amongst the least enjoyable teams to watch in the PL for too long now. For everyone going on about how it is just the result that matters, I think this weekend showed me, personally, that it is not the case for me. When you are talking the first game of the season, you appreciate how starved you have felt all summer. Been looking forward to just watching the team play (competitively) for 3 months and that was a huge anti-climax. When was the last time United really entertained anyone for a period of note?
We have been amongst the least enjoyable teams to watch in the PL for too long now. For everyone going on about how it is just the result that matters, I think this weekend showed me, personally, that it is not the case for me. When you are talking the first game of the season, you appreciate how starved you have felt all summer. Been looking forward to just watching the team play (competitively) for 3 months and that was a huge anti-climax. When was the last time United really entertained anyone for a period of note?
Kinda agree, Although I think we need a winger AND a striker. I'm just hoping that LVG actually takes a tough stance on Rooney when he doesn't perform like he has others rather than give him a pass, but it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't.
What happened to the United that Fergie used to love? That got you out of your seat on a regular basis and the hairs on the back of your neck raised? Will we ever see that again?
One shot on target is a joke. What has happened to the standards of United when people need to actually defend arguing about why they're unhappy about our lack of creativity in the form of only having one shot on target. Then you've got the 'perspective' muppets who are using Arsenal and Chelsea results as a stick to beat the very same fans with. Fair enough, you've got a point, it's better to win ugly than to lose playing great football but the difference is this isn't a one off. We've been creating little to no chances for about a year now. We won't always be this lucky. This will probably be seen as negative but it's not, it's just the truth. One shot on target is not acceptable when it's as common as it is with this United team.
Just as well you posted that when City hadn't yet played, eh?
If Chelsea fans start to sing 'boring, boring United we should worry. 
I think playing both Carrick and Schneiderlin at home to Spurs is part of the reason for this thread. Should be enough with one of them. Herrera and Schweinsteiger both offer more going forward. When they did come on, the team was resigned to defending the lead.
Would like to see Carrick on the bench vs Villa and if we're winning, bring him on to secure the lead.
I think playing both Carrick and Schneiderlin at home to Spurs is part of the reason for this thread. Should be enough with one of them. Herrera and Schweinsteiger both offer more going forward. When they did come on, the team was resigned to defending the lead.
Would like to see Carrick on the bench vs Villa and if we're winning, bring him on to secure the lead.
That and it's no longer the weekend.
If Chelsea fans start to sing 'boring, boring United we should worry.
I think playing both Carrick and Schneiderlin at home to Spurs is part of the reason for this thread. Should be enough with one of them. Herrera and Schweinsteiger both offer more going forward. When they did come on, the team was resigned to defending the lead.
Would like to see Carrick on the bench vs Villa and if we're winning, bring him on to secure the lead.
Defending it badly. When they came on Spurs started creating a bunch of chances.
How does that even matter? You mean we should be as good (as shit) as our rivals?
City looked excellent last night...but..wait..that must be one of their 7-8 games that they are usuallly good in, right?
Not really. One team played exciting football this weekend. It'll change in a few weeks. It's pretty much impossible to play nice football throughout the season.
Yes. If you expect us to surpass most of the teams around us you have overly high expectations.
The 'zombie passing' thread was started in here years before LVG even knew about coming here. Honestly the last 3/4 seasons of Fergie were overrated, we were not that great to watch. Id say even in 08/09 when we had Ronaldo, it was a painful season in terms of enterteinment.
Me personally im going to give the team time, say 3-5 games before I really judge them. The funny thing about people complainig about the lack of shots is they say we had loads of posession and passed it around without purpose. In truth? We didnt, we were very bad in possession for most of that game. And that probably played a part in the bad chance creation.
To be fair, Fergie decided that the type of football that built his dynasty domestically wasn't going to dominate the Champions League and started to change things for that reason.
This thread shows how fine the margins are. Had Rooney slotted that home and had Young taken the shot from the Memphis pass, we'd be 2-0 up at HT and this thread wouldn't exist.
Creating so few chances is obviously disappointing. At home we are used to the team creating lots of chances and then if we don't get the win at least we tried.
However on Saturday we were playing a top 6 team who for a large part of the game were just as negative as us. The goal came from some really nice play and let's face it if Walker doesn't get there first then Rooney scores anyway.
Spurs best chances came in the last 10 minutes when we were shutting up shop... Or at least trying to. By that point we were sitting deep and letting them come at us. A worrying tactic but one that's worked for us over the years.
Friday should be better... Villa as the home team will have more of the ball and under Sherwood won't be negative. You'd think therefore there will be more space. Plus we've had another week of training together and improving chemistry and fitness.
However on Saturday we were playing a top 6 team who for a large part of the game were just as negative as us. The goal came from some really nice play and let's face it if Walker doesn't get there first then Rooney scores anyway.
Spurs best chances came in the last 10 minutes when we were shutting up shop... Or at least trying to. By that point we were sitting deep and letting them come at us. A worrying tactic but one that's worked for us over the years.
Friday should be better... Villa as the home team will have more of the ball and under Sherwood won't be negative. You'd think therefore there will be more space. Plus we've had another week of training together and improving chemistry and fitness.
Sorry missed this for some reason.
We created 26 shots vs west brom at home last season. Nothing happened. We created 17 chances away to Everton in our first game of 12/13 iirc. Both we lost. Spurs once had 14 shots on target vs Newcastle yet they lost 1-0. It's not even that rare to have the team winning with minimum chances created. Last year's champions were of that mould.
The point I am trying to make is having countless chances isn't any indication as to how we played. It depends a lot on the result and about how we played. Expecting us to have the same number of chances vs a low team and one of the top team is naive. We aren't taking into account how the opposition plays defensively which can reduce the attack too.
I haven't watched us under sexton so I do not know how we played then though.
As I told above we played a reasonably well drilled team who were defensively good. It's kind of senseless to expect us to have countless chances even if the team has a good defence. We had about 10 chances even then some of which weren't technically on target. For instance mata had a shot marginally wide, which isn't on target but was good.
And I don't think attacking is the only way to play good. I think it can be safely said that all of our back 4, the keeper and even our CMs were good. meaning we did play well. As people said, being good in attack and defence is the only way to play really like the real United. When is the last time we did that even under Fergie? We were a defensive disaster in most Games. His last game saw us conceding 5 goals against west brom for gods sake
im sure we had about 18 shots in our 2-1 away loss to Swansea for instance. Do you think that was entertainment merely because we had lots of chances? We had 26 chances vs west brom. Was that entertaining? For me no. I was more entertained by us winning against arsenal with 1 shot on target than those other games I mentioned. At the end of the day, most fans care about winning. It's all nice to say after the match that I would have preferred to win in a more attacking way but if we had attacked and lost I don't think you will take solace in te fact that 'at least we attacked'
We created 26 shots vs west brom at home last season. Nothing happened. We created 17 chances away to Everton in our first game of 12/13 iirc. Both we lost. Spurs once had 14 shots on target vs Newcastle yet they lost 1-0. It's not even that rare to have the team winning with minimum chances created. Last year's champions were of that mould.
The point I am trying to make is having countless chances isn't any indication as to how we played. It depends a lot on the result and about how we played. Expecting us to have the same number of chances vs a low team and one of the top team is naive. We aren't taking into account how the opposition plays defensively which can reduce the attack too.
I haven't watched us under sexton so I do not know how we played then though.
As I told above we played a reasonably well drilled team who were defensively good. It's kind of senseless to expect us to have countless chances even if the team has a good defence. We had about 10 chances even then some of which weren't technically on target. For instance mata had a shot marginally wide, which isn't on target but was good.
And I don't think attacking is the only way to play good. I think it can be safely said that all of our back 4, the keeper and even our CMs were good. meaning we did play well. As people said, being good in attack and defence is the only way to play really like the real United. When is the last time we did that even under Fergie? We were a defensive disaster in most Games. His last game saw us conceding 5 goals against west brom for gods sake
im sure we had about 18 shots in our 2-1 away loss to Swansea for instance. Do you think that was entertainment merely because we had lots of chances? We had 26 chances vs west brom. Was that entertaining? For me no. I was more entertained by us winning against arsenal with 1 shot on target than those other games I mentioned. At the end of the day, most fans care about winning. It's all nice to say after the match that I would have preferred to win in a more attacking way but if we had attacked and lost I don't think you will take solace in te fact that 'at least we attacked'
I tell you what. After seeing Arsenal lose and Chelsea draw, it made the pill (1 shot on target) easier to swallow.
We were gash during Fergie's last season? Sorry but we were still miles ahead of anything LVG has shown so far but the 5-match streak. I think RVP himself created more excitement that season than the whole LVG era until now.
Not going to get many shots on target when most of our game consists of circulating the ball at the half way line or in our half in order to control the game.
This first game much like the games last season, we were hardly getting behind the opponents and not even winning corners. Depay even said he can't take risks with the ball in the middle of the park and only on the flanks, which means we are not going to be winning many freekicks attacking teams centrally.
LVG needs to loosen up the reigns on the players otherwise he is never going to get the creativity or speed he desires regardless of who else we sign. We'll end up in this cycle of training the players to play in a certain way, we'll end up not doing that great in the season and then buy another bunch just to have them go through the same cycle.
This first game much like the games last season, we were hardly getting behind the opponents and not even winning corners. Depay even said he can't take risks with the ball in the middle of the park and only on the flanks, which means we are not going to be winning many freekicks attacking teams centrally.
LVG needs to loosen up the reigns on the players otherwise he is never going to get the creativity or speed he desires regardless of who else we sign. We'll end up in this cycle of training the players to play in a certain way, we'll end up not doing that great in the season and then buy another bunch just to have them go through the same cycle.
It also took two hours for you fans to get into the stadium for me to do my job! Imagine how I feel!!!
Also, we had 12 touches in the penalty area in total. Callum Wilson of Bournemouth had 16 on his own! Rooney had just two.
I've noticed an increasing number users who share this revised version of history. I have absolutely no idea how anyone could put their name against such a claim personally.