They can claim what they want, the two boys were shot dead regardless. B'Tselem claimed the IDF claims were nonsense.
Israeli - Palestinian Conflict
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
They can claim what they want, the two boys were shot dead regardless. B'Tselem claimed the IDF claims were nonsense.
There is no problem between Jews and Muslims? This IS a religious war, reading Hamas' doctrine proves my point. Looking at the indoctrination and the Nazi style propaganda that Palestinian school children are being taught again proves you wrong.
Muslims protected and safeguarded Jews? http://www.khilafah.com/index.php/t...499-dhimmi-non-muslims-living-in-the-khilafah - If you class living as third class citizens and not being allowed to worship and paying a Jizya for this privelage as protecting and safeguarding then you really are cuckoo.
Hamas are no threat? As I said to someone else earlier in this thread, go to Sderot and don't run for cover when the sirens are on and tell me if they are a threat then.
That being said I do agree with your sentiment about corrupt and savage leaders on BOTH sides, not just Israel.
My MP's? Who said I was Israeli? You have a habit of reading words that don't exist.
This argument only goes round in circles because you are refusing to accept Hamas plays as big a part if not a bigger part than Israel. Simples.
Other way around.
The current conflict is indeed the result of one side being armed to the teeth trying to suppress and destroy the other.
1948, 67,73 bore witness to failed Arab invasions (Soviet backed) which indeed led to the current refugee crisis both (800,000 Jews form Arab lands and Palestine Arabs ).
Hamas (albeit with Islam chucked into the equation) is merely the latest incarnation of what has been a terribly sad genocidal agenda.
The "small rockets" we're discussing here have killed scores of Israelis in the past. Israel's ability to retaliate to rocket fire should not be compromised by the brilliance of its engineers that managed to develope an efficient protective system against those rockets.
Question for you, why do you insist on putting words into other people's mouths? I've never said anything like that. Try reading.
Hard to say what I'd do personally. However I'd like to think that if I saw lobbing 1000s of rockets were only serving to destroy my own people then I'd think of something else.
But B'Tselem are hardly impartial. A joint investigation is still under way (http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_article.php?id=17717). Regardless, do you really believe that the kidnapping and murder of the Israeli teenagers was that spontaneous and did not involve substantial time for planning? Very unlikely.
I didn't suggest that.
I'm not trying to cheapen the psychological and physical trauma these rockets have had. Simply stating that their morbid effect is tame compared to the the fireworks show the Gazans enjoy.
We are not going to solve the blame game on who started/whose fault is it, but since this latest video has been elegantly ignored here's another one. You're the pilot and these armed Hamas combatants have been involved in exchanges with your colleagues on the ground...blow the feck out of that ambulance or not? War crime or not?
How do we know they're Hamas? The IDF can't be a more credible source than the ISM surely?
Actually Eboue, you did:
"You can call it that! Because they are alive, unlike several hundred on the other side of the conflict."
I was simply collating the differing theories I've heard from multiple sources.
I keep telling this to my kids every single day, but please don't limit this to "psychological and physical trauma". This time it's largely limited to those, but this is not what Hamas is shooting them for. Grads are no longer those primitive Qassams, which themselves killed Israelis in the past. Israelis, and indeed Palestinians, have to be grateful for Iron Dome.
Well played Senegal
Good one. Can't tell, perhaps they're PIJ.
Fair enough.
As much as I appreciate the tongue in cheek humour, you know what I was alluding to.
Hamas "hijack" Red Crescent ambulances to run arms and carry their troops Kaos. This has been proven many times.
No, I pointed out the tone deafness of saying "if you can call it that". At no point did I suggest that Hamas should fire with impunity.
http://unitedwithisrael.org/jewish-history-jewish-people-find-refuge-in-ottoman-turkish-empire/ - you need to read up on your history and your facts. Where are you not allowed to pray? And this 'tax' you have to pay is much less than Muslims have to pay. Small memory.
Shows just how limited your knowledge is of Islam and i think that is the problem. Hamas does not embody Islam. This is a fight over land. Not religion.
I don't doubt Hamas being capable of that, its that since we're in the spirit of decrediting videos, why is an IDF video taken as gospel?
You're forgetting that Palestinian Christians are a very sizeable minority who also have to endure the same injustices are their Muslim compatriots.
There was a video linked the other day with Israeli children too.
The facts speak for itself. As does the death toll. You can if and but all you like but feck me, this is a massacre at one end. If your brain can't engage one side is armed with the best technology in the world and one literally has home made rockets, and you think this is a fair war then you are just ignorant and pretty stupid if i'm being honest.
I'm not even looking at religion when it comes to this. All i am seeing is what is infront of me and that is one set of people that happen to be Muslim are being terrorised and oppressed by a country which happens to be Jewish for reasons that do not justify the killings of innocent civilians. Especially during Ramadan when these people are trying to be spiritual and peaceful. That is sickening.
Who was in the Levant before the Ottoman Empire? The Khilafah (Caliphate). They share views extremely similar to ISIS. God help us all if they gain control of the Arab world.
It is a fight over religion, just as much as it is over land.
It is a fight over religion, just as much as it is over land.
I do, and as always all we can do is employ common sense and choose what to believe.
Amen, I think?
I'm not so sure lobbing rockets intent on killing as many people as possible is peaceful. Also this is an interesting video
What are your thoughts on this? Hamas need to go.
What are your thoughts on this? Hamas need to go.
I think quite possibly the horror that the people in Gaza face actually takes away from what it must be like living in Israel under these conditions. I hope that makes sense and doesn't come across as disrespectful, but I feel like those of us from safe countries may not be able to really understand what it must be like because it's so easy to compare to the horror in Gaza.
Now Israel absolutely need to try and find another way to tackle the situation they are in, and find a way to not only protect their own citizens but protect the Palestinians from Hamas actions as well, rather than see them essentially attacked on two fronts.
The sad thing is both parties seem to want the other gone, but while the one side is an established world player and military power, and the other is happy to sacrifice as many people as it takes, unless they both swallow some pride and really commit to a peaceful resolution I can't see any long term ending that doesn't involve the Gaza Strip being levelled by Isreal.
If was the operative word thereISIS or anyone of their ilk aren't going to take over the Arab world
Saskjoe what other way is there? Hamas don't want any peace with Israel.
What kind of response do constant rocket attacks justify in your opinions? What would a reasonable and restrained response be? I'm assuming you don't think they should just ignore the rocket attacks as that would be pretty ridiculous, so how could they counter and prevent these rocket attacks in a way that's both effective and doesn't involve the killing of innocent civilians? Or at least a major reduction in the numbers killed?
This is a genuine question btw, I actually don't know anything about the capabilities of the Israelis so they could have a more effective and humane way of countering this threat for all I know. Genuinely wondering what alternative people have in mind when people say this response is way over the top. How do you stop rockets being fired from civilian areas without killing innocent civilians?
I don't think the radical elements of Israeli society want peace with the Palestinians either, especially if it means having to declare borders and cease building settlements.
No and I totally agree. I think they are just as much to blame in this situation as Hamas are. Seems to me that there are entities on both sides who revel in keeping the death rolling. I just think Israel does get an unfair amount of criticisms.
We can agree on something then.
Sadly, this is the issue isn't it. I'm at a loss to where they go from here. If you try and take in the Palestinian civilians to safety and take out the Hamas threat, separating Hamas militants from genuine civilians is obviously an impossible task. Otherwise you're left with trying to take them out around the Palestinian public and continue causing massive collateral damage.
If Israel give into Hamas' demands, Hamas will just keep pushing for more, they aren't going away. It's an impossible situation.
Yes and no matter what Israel does, whether it be violent or the opposite, it stands to lose