Israeli - Palestinian Conflict
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
Agreed - annex them
Best regards Sultan - hope all is well!
All well buddy.
Kind regards
Not necessarily. As an example, a lot of people lived outside of South Africa in first world countries living 'wholesome' lives and yet returned to South Africa once political freedom was achieved, even though their immediate living standards would have dropped.
Abbas says no to Jewish state - Israel News, Ynetnews
Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas said Friday he is adamant about not recognizing Israel as the Jewish state.
"They talk to us about the Jewish state, but I respond to them with a final answer: We shall not recognize a Jewish state," Abbas said in a meeting with some 200 senior representatives of the Palestinians community in the US, shortly before taking the podium and delivering a speech at the United Nations General Assembly.
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Why would the Israelis recognize the right of a group of people who have recently started referring to themselves as "Palestinians" for another state, and additional rights in a third?
Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas said Friday he is adamant about not recognizing Israel as the Jewish state.
"They talk to us about the Jewish state, but I respond to them with a final answer: We shall not recognize a Jewish state," Abbas said in a meeting with some 200 senior representatives of the Palestinians community in the US, shortly before taking the podium and delivering a speech at the United Nations General Assembly.
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Why would the Israelis recognize the right of a group of people who have recently started referring to themselves as "Palestinians" for another state, and additional rights in a third?
Israeli Arabs Prefer Israel to Palestinian Authority
A recent survey of Israeli Arabs in the town Um Al-Fahm indicated that the vast majority would prefer to remain citizens of Israel and would oppose their town being transferred to a Palestinian rule. Um Al-Fahm, is the stronghold of the Islamist movement in Israel. This survey was conducted by and published in[1] the Israeli Israeli Arab weekly, Kul Al-Arab, known for its nationalist pan-Arab Nasserist inclinations. The editor at large of the magazine, Samih Al-Qasem, recently told the Egyptian magazine, Al-'Usbu' that "Even if 250 million Arabs normalize their relations with Israel, he alone would oppose it."
Following is an article discussing the survey entitled "Um Al-Fahm Prefers Israel," by Joseph Algazy, Ha'aretz, August 1, 2000.
"During the [recent] Camp David summit and even during the preparations that made for it, the subject of territorial exchange between Israel and the Palestinian state was raised for the umpteenth time. According to the proposal, some of the Jewish settlements in the territories would remain under Israeli sovereignty, in return for the transfer of Israeli Arab communities in the Northern Triangle region, including the city of Um Al-Fahm, to Palestinian control. The advocates of this proposal have never bothered to consult with the individuals who would be immediately involved in such an exchange - namely, the [Arab] residents of those communities, who are Israeli citizens."
"Those advocates should realize that the [Arab] residents themselves are totally opposed to the idea. During the present round of Palestinian-Israeli talks, the head of the 'Abna Al-Balad' ('Sons of the Village') group, Raja Aghbariya, who lives in Um al Fahm, declared, in an interview published in the Nazareth weekly Kul Al-Arab, that he is 'prepared to give up the National Insurance allowance [he gets as an Israeli citizen] and Israeli democracy to be united with the land and people of Palestine.'"
"A few days later, the results of a survey conducted by Kul Al-Arab indicated a completely different view among the city's residents."
"In the survey conducted among 1,000 residents [of Um Al-Fahm], both male and female, from all of the town's clans and large families as well as all segments of the local political spectrum, 83 percent of respondents opposed the idea of transferring their city to Palestinian jurisdiction, while 11 percent supported the proposal and 6 percent did not express their position. Of those opposed to the idea, 54 percent explained that they were against becoming part of a Palestinian state because they wanted to continue living under a democratic regime and enjoying a good standard of living, which includes National Insurance allowances and pensions. Of these opponents, 18 percent stated that they were satisfied with their present situation, that they were born in Israel and that they were not interested in moving to any other state. Another 14 percent of this same group went so far as to say that they were not prepared to make sacrifices for the sake of the creation of a Palestinian state and to be its "sacrificial offering of atonement." Another 11 percent cited no reason for their opposition to the annexation of their city by the Palestinian state."
"In addition to the fact that their parents and grandparents in 1948 decided to remain on their lands, Um Al-Fahm residents themselves have, over the past few years, gained first-hand knowledge of the regime of terror, oppression and corruption that exists in the Palestinian Authority under Chairman Yasser Arafat. The residents of Um Al-Fahm have expressed not only their own views and feelings but also the views and feelings of Israel's Arab community in general as well as of many Palestinians who today live in the PA and who, irrespective of their political aspirations for the end of the Israeli occupation, are opposed to the way Arafat and his followers are managing affairs.
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[1] Kul Al-Arab (Israel), July 28, 2000
A recent survey of Israeli Arabs in the town Um Al-Fahm indicated that the vast majority would prefer to remain citizens of Israel and would oppose their town being transferred to a Palestinian rule. Um Al-Fahm, is the stronghold of the Islamist movement in Israel. This survey was conducted by and published in[1] the Israeli Israeli Arab weekly, Kul Al-Arab, known for its nationalist pan-Arab Nasserist inclinations. The editor at large of the magazine, Samih Al-Qasem, recently told the Egyptian magazine, Al-'Usbu' that "Even if 250 million Arabs normalize their relations with Israel, he alone would oppose it."
Following is an article discussing the survey entitled "Um Al-Fahm Prefers Israel," by Joseph Algazy, Ha'aretz, August 1, 2000.
"During the [recent] Camp David summit and even during the preparations that made for it, the subject of territorial exchange between Israel and the Palestinian state was raised for the umpteenth time. According to the proposal, some of the Jewish settlements in the territories would remain under Israeli sovereignty, in return for the transfer of Israeli Arab communities in the Northern Triangle region, including the city of Um Al-Fahm, to Palestinian control. The advocates of this proposal have never bothered to consult with the individuals who would be immediately involved in such an exchange - namely, the [Arab] residents of those communities, who are Israeli citizens."
"Those advocates should realize that the [Arab] residents themselves are totally opposed to the idea. During the present round of Palestinian-Israeli talks, the head of the 'Abna Al-Balad' ('Sons of the Village') group, Raja Aghbariya, who lives in Um al Fahm, declared, in an interview published in the Nazareth weekly Kul Al-Arab, that he is 'prepared to give up the National Insurance allowance [he gets as an Israeli citizen] and Israeli democracy to be united with the land and people of Palestine.'"
"A few days later, the results of a survey conducted by Kul Al-Arab indicated a completely different view among the city's residents."
"In the survey conducted among 1,000 residents [of Um Al-Fahm], both male and female, from all of the town's clans and large families as well as all segments of the local political spectrum, 83 percent of respondents opposed the idea of transferring their city to Palestinian jurisdiction, while 11 percent supported the proposal and 6 percent did not express their position. Of those opposed to the idea, 54 percent explained that they were against becoming part of a Palestinian state because they wanted to continue living under a democratic regime and enjoying a good standard of living, which includes National Insurance allowances and pensions. Of these opponents, 18 percent stated that they were satisfied with their present situation, that they were born in Israel and that they were not interested in moving to any other state. Another 14 percent of this same group went so far as to say that they were not prepared to make sacrifices for the sake of the creation of a Palestinian state and to be its "sacrificial offering of atonement." Another 11 percent cited no reason for their opposition to the annexation of their city by the Palestinian state."
"In addition to the fact that their parents and grandparents in 1948 decided to remain on their lands, Um Al-Fahm residents themselves have, over the past few years, gained first-hand knowledge of the regime of terror, oppression and corruption that exists in the Palestinian Authority under Chairman Yasser Arafat. The residents of Um Al-Fahm have expressed not only their own views and feelings but also the views and feelings of Israel's Arab community in general as well as of many Palestinians who today live in the PA and who, irrespective of their political aspirations for the end of the Israeli occupation, are opposed to the way Arafat and his followers are managing affairs.
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[1] Kul Al-Arab (Israel), July 28, 2000
BBCBreaking BBC Breaking News
Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas submits application for #UN recognition of a #Palestinian state, UN says BBC News - Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas makes UN statehood bid
Be interesting to see if Abbas repeats the rhetoric from his speech infront of the Palestinians, in the presence of the worlds media and leaders.
Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas submits application for #UN recognition of a #Palestinian state, UN says BBC News - Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas makes UN statehood bid
Be interesting to see if Abbas repeats the rhetoric from his speech infront of the Palestinians, in the presence of the worlds media and leaders.
Abbas speech at the GA in a few minutes.
"They talk to us about the Jewish state, but I respond to them with a final answer: We shall not recognize a Jewish state," Abbas said
If this is for real, and without some weird context, I am very disappointed with that statement.
I understand politics, and that politicians speak differently when speaking to their 'constituents', but knowing how sensitive the issue is, that would be such a irresponsible statement.
I don't understand your disappointment. The Palestinians have been very consistent about this.
My disappointment is that, publicly leaders say lot of things, but in meetings away from the media and cameras, they are a lot more pragmatic.
For example, just because Israel constantly says, it will never hand over sovereignty of Jerusalem in any shape or form, it doesn't mean some day, in final talks, it wouldn't submit East Jerusalem being named an international city, and giving up control.
Just as Israelis I know say they are happy with for there to be an independent Palestine, Palestinians I know(not as many tbf) say they are only too happy to recognize a Jewish Israeli state, so long as they get something that resembles a viable state.
*mind you none of these people are of any great importance or influence.
What a poor speech. Here was a chance to say we offer a future of a peaceful coexistence between neighbouring independent Palestinian and Jewish states.
Hehe...The GA gives loud applauses when Arafat's name is mentioned.
Hehe...The GA gives loud applauses when Arafat's name is mentioned.
I remember in the late 70s that the Palestinian recognition of Isreal to exist was inevitable...and here we are still talking about it.
Israeli officials have been pretty open with their willingness for a compromise in Jerusalem (see Barak, 2000, the "Clinton plan").
There is disagreement over what this Israel is going to be like.
What I couldn't help but laugh at was when Abbas said that the PLO is against any kind of terrorism
What I couldn't help but laugh at was when Abbas said that the PLO is against any kind of terrorism
I am not sure that the worst part, and perhaps what he means was lost in translation.
The Arabs tried to beat Israel through all-out wars and terrorism and failed in both. They've now adopted a new tactic and gone on a campaign to delegitimize Israel through "peaceful" means which includes this circus in the UN.
"Negotiations will be meaningless as long as there's occupation on the ground".
I thought that was the whole point of the negotiations?
I thought that was the whole point of the negotiations?
Brilliant Palestinian elections speech by Abbas.
Hes playing hard ball with the hardest ball of them all Netanyahu.
The Vote will not happen - as the US does not want to use its veto. If the US uses its veto the real problems will be for those Arab nations who support the US - for them selling a US Veto on Palestine statehood will not be an easy sell if at all.
The Vote will not happen - as the US does not want to use its veto. If the US uses its veto the real problems will be for those Arab nations who support the US - for them selling a US Veto on Palestine statehood will not be an easy sell if at all.
Worst speech EVER, with so much at stake.
He completely bottled it. He could have easily said,
"I stand here today, as the President of the Palestinian people to say, we are ready to recognize the State of Israel, the question is now, is Israel ready to recognize us?"
It wouldn't made much of a difference, but it would have been great PR, and the Palestinians could do with good PR.
He completely bottled it. He could have easily said,
"I stand here today, as the President of the Palestinian people to say, we are ready to recognize the State of Israel, the question is now, is Israel ready to recognize us?"
It wouldn't made much of a difference, but it would have been great PR, and the Palestinians could do with good PR.
What did he just say, the capital city of Palestine should be where?
East Jerusalem
Bibi will come on, and absolutely decimate the piss poor speech Abbas gave in 30 minutes
It seems to me to be a very obvious "charm offensive" but Abbas has no control whatsoever over the Palestinian extremists and even if they are granted statehood they will still run amok.
Ah ok, Al Quds.
Absolutely.
the tragic comedy here is that the PLO no longer truly represents the majority of Paletinians.
I'm pretty sure the majority of Palestinians want to just live their lives in peace just as the vast majority of Israelis do.
no one is denying that.
I believe the majority dont believe they are goingt o get what they want by just 'talking'.
the support for Hamas is an expression of frustration.
It's a great speech if your an Israeli. I said before Abbas is a stooge and he has lived up to his billing.
Both Israelis' and Palestinians have been indoctrinating and poisoning their kids with hatred for many generations. They have sown the seeds of animosity, and due to this will continue to pay a heavy price until they both change their mind-set quick time.
Hmmm.... Whilst I respect your own opinion I can't agree with it.
Frustration doesn't give anybody the right to strap Semtex to themselves (or encourage others to do the same) and murder innocent people for their cause.
Here is a question for Holyland. If all of a sudden (in a hypothetical sense) the Palestinian people adopted a Gandhi/Luther King method of non-violent protests and a total end to terrorist attacks do you think the Israeli Government would be more open to Palestinian state talks?
the hate wont go away as you say Sultan. But we Can live in peace with our enemies.
They dont have to love each other...just get to the realisation that the best way to preserve their own safty is to recognise 'they' also have a right to be there.
that has to be the start.
They dont have to love each other...just get to the realisation that the best way to preserve their own safty is to recognise 'they' also have a right to be there.
that has to be the start.
Spot on. As much as I would love to see that happen sadly I don't think it ever will as both sides are too entrenched in their beliefs.
From what I have researched a lot of Palestinian school kids are given all sorts of horrific propaganda inciting hatred towards Israel. It also doesn't help anybody when US settlers are around.
What irks me is when either side, be it Israeli or Palestinian try to claim the moral high ground. From what I understand about the history and facts no side can say their hands are clean.
As horrid as it sounds, violence is the only thing that has kept Palestine relevant in the international media.
Building the wall along with Hamas/PLO and other groups lessening their war efforts has cut down the number of Israeli casualties exponentially....but has the peace process moved along any further?
I have no problem with an armed Palestinian struggle - some things you have to fight for, no one gives away anything for free, my disgust is at the targetting of innocent civilians/buses/schools.
who is talking about rights?
when people see no future for themselves or their children.....what have they got to lose?
What would you target instead?
So this is a valid and justified excuse to murder and maim innocent civilians?
Do you place the blame for this solely with Israel and its past/present policies?
The Bhutan ambassador looks like a nice guy. Good speech so far.
Edit: if anyone is listening, this is a quality, intelligent speech.
Edit: if anyone is listening, this is a quality, intelligent speech.