Not me that's for sure
Israeli - Palestinian Conflict
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
Not me that's for sure
Israel will not known peace as long as it occupies Arab land outside its legal 1967 frontiers. Withdrawl from the West Bank, and the creation of a Palestinian homeland are, as almost all sane people concede, necessary conditions to peace. But, the Arabs must give the Israelis sufficent guarantees that it will not be used as a base for terrorist or military attacks.
America is not a honest broker and should stop the illegal $3 military aid to Israel; halt it's diplomacy and deeds of double standards to the Arabs and hopefully stymie the shifting negative sentiments in the region.
Britian should not allow ourself to be drawn into this quagmire, even though, we bear huge responsibilities for the hostilies that we gave birth to.
America is not a honest broker and should stop the illegal $3 military aid to Israel; halt it's diplomacy and deeds of double standards to the Arabs and hopefully stymie the shifting negative sentiments in the region.
Britian should not allow ourself to be drawn into this quagmire, even though, we bear huge responsibilities for the hostilies that we gave birth to.
Hey, it's no joke, the Israeli air force buys a wheel nut for an F-16 with those three dollars!
I know I meant $3billion
What did you mean instead of "illegal", because that is just as funny.
What did you mean instead of "illegal", because that is just as funny.
I should qualify that; "illegal" according to Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International. It appearantly breaks both international law [Article 16 of the International Law Commission] and US domestic law [Section 502B of the US Foreign Assistance Act].
Yes, apparently (according to Amnesty Int and HRW).
So he is asking the UN to grant him a state, whilst at the same time point blank refusing to ever recognise another state? The bloke's a clown.
Is he prepared to recognise Pakistan, a Muslim state? Or Great Britain, a Christian state? Is it just the Jews he has a problem with?
Robert Fisk: A President who is helpless in the face of Middle East reality - Robert Fisk, Commentators - The Independent
Robert Fisk: Why the Middle East will never be the same again - Robert Fisk, Commentators - The Independent
Abbas is refusing to acknowledge the state on racial/religious grounds. Not refusing to acknowledge it at all. Silly either way, today should have been his opportunity to come out and say, as Holyland I think said earlier, let's work towards a Palestinian and Jewish state side by side. Was a poor speech to be honest, even if I do support what he's doing.
I think he'd be willing to accept whatever state, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, zoroastrinism, the old Norse religion, as long as it wasn't occupying and building on land which he feels should be that of his countrymen.
Robert Fisk: Why the Middle East will never be the same again - Robert Fisk, Commentators - The Independent
Abbas is refusing to acknowledge the state on racial/religious grounds. Not refusing to acknowledge it at all. Silly either way, today should have been his opportunity to come out and say, as Holyland I think said earlier, let's work towards a Palestinian and Jewish state side by side. Was a poor speech to be honest, even if I do support what he's doing.
I think he'd be willing to accept whatever state, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, zoroastrinism, the old Norse religion, as long as it wasn't occupying and building on land which he feels should be that of his countrymen.
I read an article by Tzipi Livni about how Netanyahu is weakening Israel, etc. and it sounded as if she was drunk while she wrote it. Has this woman lost her mind?
It was a dull and uninspiring speech. The Arabic to English translation only made it worse. Completely wasted opportunity yet it doesn't come as a surprise. The Palestinians somehow managed to isolate themselves even further.
While I agree with the first part completely, isolate themselves even further? All the evidence points to quite widespread support, outside of the EU and the US certainly anyway. I don't see that they were isolated before or are even more isolated now in the general assembly.
All so depressing.
The fact is all of this is bollocks. Just time-wasting in an endless game..
It gives me absolutely no satisfaction that our prime minister 'won' this battle. Despite what many believe, a lot of Israeli people think a Palestinian state is a good thing for ISRAEL.
For me there was always nothing to negotiate (except technicalities) as the situation is quite clear, each side needs to make one big compromise: Israel needs to give up East Jerusalem and the Palestinians need to forget about their refugees coming back to Israel.
These are the 2 big issues. The settlements are not the issue, as everyone knows that in the unlikely case of an agreement being reached the big ones will remain under Israeli sovereignty (with alternative lands going to the Palestinians) and the small ones will be evacuated. But honestly both sides want to make this THE issue because no one is ready to talk about the real issues.
I find all the talk about history (from both sides) especially annoying and completely irrelevant. Israel exists, rightfully or not, and it's not going away anytime soon. I couldn't care less if Jews were here first or not.
The fact is all of this is bollocks. Just time-wasting in an endless game..
It gives me absolutely no satisfaction that our prime minister 'won' this battle. Despite what many believe, a lot of Israeli people think a Palestinian state is a good thing for ISRAEL.
For me there was always nothing to negotiate (except technicalities) as the situation is quite clear, each side needs to make one big compromise: Israel needs to give up East Jerusalem and the Palestinians need to forget about their refugees coming back to Israel.
These are the 2 big issues. The settlements are not the issue, as everyone knows that in the unlikely case of an agreement being reached the big ones will remain under Israeli sovereignty (with alternative lands going to the Palestinians) and the small ones will be evacuated. But honestly both sides want to make this THE issue because no one is ready to talk about the real issues.
I find all the talk about history (from both sides) especially annoying and completely irrelevant. Israel exists, rightfully or not, and it's not going away anytime soon. I couldn't care less if Jews were here first or not.
they showed the Palestinians watching Netenyahu speaking at the Un. a lot of shoes were thrown at the large screen...
funny though...
funny though...
They should have also thrown their other shoe at Abbas.
he will get that when he gets home....
"... People from Queens and Brooklyn are considerably nicer than some of Israel's neighbours."
Admittedly people from Queens are cnuts (except vivs)
If only the US would turn it's back to Israel.
That will never happen.The Jewish influence in America is far to strong.
Hehe...the Yanks (excluding Bob) love us.
Exactly my thoughts Roy.
From the PLO charter:
Article 20: Claims of historical or religious ties of Jews with Palestine are incompatible with the facts of history and the true conception of what constitutes statehood. Judaism, being a religion, is not an independent nationality. Nor do Jews constitute a single nation with an identity of its own; they are citizens of the states to which they belong.
Who cares either way though?
I need them to recognise Israel as a state, it has feck all to do with them on what grounds WE want to define ourselves. Honestly it's none of their business and a completely irrelevant issue.
I disagree. Acknowledging the Jews' right for self-determination here is a huge step towards reconciliation between the Arabs and Israel. It puts the PLO charter and the 1974 phase plan to bed, and it establishes that national aspirations of the Palestinian people are fully met with the creation of a Palestinian state next to Israel. I do ont expect either the Palestinians and other Arabs nor their supporters worldwide to sit on the fence when 1.5 million Palestinians in Israel demand recognition in their collective national rights in the State of Israel.
Abbas speech was excellent
This step is smart and correct.. All depends on the 193 countries' vote though
..and "Veto" is the most blatant proof that the world do not give a damn about democracy
peace. Out.
This step is smart and correct.. All depends on the 193 countries' vote though
..and "Veto" is the most blatant proof that the world do not give a damn about democracy
peace. Out.
hmmm...no. It depends on 3 actually- Nigeria, Gabon and Bosnia.
How many of the above 193 are? How about denying UN voting rights from non-democracies if that's what the world should be about?
hmmm...no. It depends on 3 actually- Nigeria, Gabon and Bosnia.
How many of the above 193 are? How about denying UN voting rights from non-democracies if that's what the world should be about?
I don't think Bosnia will come to an agreement on this issue as the Muslim and Croat part voted for but the Serbs voted against the recognition of Palestine.
The Yanks have spent the last week or so bullying the Bosnians into not giving a 'yes' vote. My guess is that they'll abstain.
I see. You adopted Hanan Ashrawi's claims there. I'd personally think that the Serbs would have issues with the type of tricks the Palestinians are trying to pull at the UN.
I don't have a strong opinion either way on the UN granting the Palestinians a state, there are still too many issues that need negotiating between the two parties involved that the UN cannot fix without full agreement.
Part of me thinks that it at least gives an imperative to the Israelis to at least come to some reasonable compromise if the Palestinians actually have more leverage to negotiate with over remaining issues.
Part of me thinks that nothing will really change on the ground and it will lead to frustration and more violence.
I am disappointed that Abbas missed a fantastic opportunity to show that they are not the ones holding up the peace process by not just accepting that Israel exists, but that it is a Jewish state. If he had done that while the world was watching his hand would be far stronger.
Part of me thinks that it at least gives an imperative to the Israelis to at least come to some reasonable compromise if the Palestinians actually have more leverage to negotiate with over remaining issues.
Part of me thinks that nothing will really change on the ground and it will lead to frustration and more violence.
I am disappointed that Abbas missed a fantastic opportunity to show that they are not the ones holding up the peace process by not just accepting that Israel exists, but that it is a Jewish state. If he had done that while the world was watching his hand would be far stronger.
The Palestinian leadership can not do this. The Israelis can not settle for anything less. That's the unfortunate truth.
The PLO recognised Israels right to exist in 1993, the new demand for recognition as a Jewish state is just Israel playing the delay game as it always has.
I cannot find any references as to how the US bullied the Bosnian presidency into anything. From what I can gather from our media this seems to be something we're going to decide among ourselves. And it seems pretty clear, so far, that there's no way the Serbs will change their position. Memories of war are still too fresh.
I recall Israel in return recognizing the PLO's right to exist.
Would it not have been better for Abbas to have accepted Olmert's plan rather than spend the next who knows how many years and decades attempting to get more?
As are it's values.
Would it not have been better for Abbas to have accepted Olmert's plan rather than spend the next who knows how many years and decades attempting to get more?
So the settlements would remain and who would control access to them?
The best way is for a totally separate Palestine free from settlements - give them the land and let them make their own decisions on sovereignty and control.