Is there a figure of civilian casualties that you think is possible/more accurate that would equal a proportionate response from Israel?
Israeli - Palestinian Conflict
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4546718,00.html
Large infantry forces entered Gaza overnight, as the IDF expanded Operation Protective Edge on Sunday. The IDF Spokesperson's Unit announced that the ground forces joined the ongoing operations to destroy terror infrastructure in the Gaza Strip, which began with the ground incursion.
The IDF's ground incursion into Gaza has led to a rapid rise in the number of terrorists killed. Since the beginning of the ground operation, IDF soldiers have eliminated more than 130 terrorists, including more than 60 Saturday overnight.
During the overnight firefights, a Golani Brigade battalion commander, Colonel Rassan Alian, sustained light-to-moderate injuries.
Large infantry forces entered Gaza overnight, as the IDF expanded Operation Protective Edge on Sunday. The IDF Spokesperson's Unit announced that the ground forces joined the ongoing operations to destroy terror infrastructure in the Gaza Strip, which began with the ground incursion.
The IDF's ground incursion into Gaza has led to a rapid rise in the number of terrorists killed. Since the beginning of the ground operation, IDF soldiers have eliminated more than 130 terrorists, including more than 60 Saturday overnight.
During the overnight firefights, a Golani Brigade battalion commander, Colonel Rassan Alian, sustained light-to-moderate injuries.
What hr trying to say, in other words IOF tried to enter Gaza but faced a brave fight and lost many soldiers so they went on to revenge by randomly shelling Al Shaga'ya and committing a new massacre.
I don't trust any figure I see. There is no question the civilian death toll is huge. I doubt Israel has any other option but to respond the way it does.
This round of violence was provoked by Hamas. Little doubt about that.
Hamas has bombarded civilian populations in Israel for 15 years now.
Hamas refused an Egyptian brokered ceasefire, endorsed by the PA and the Arab League, prior to the ground invasion.
Hamas attcked Israeli territory through tunnels under the border, essentially forcing Israel into a ground invasion it never wanted.
I'm not interested in a "proportionate response". It's a luxury Israel can not afford. Next a "proportionate response" would be losing one war for every war we win. You know how that one will end.
Excellent interpretation.
You have to understand socialist mentality to understand that
I think ground war is better way of limiting civilian casualties and killing more terrorists instead. It will probably mean more Israel soldiers death too though but if done properly, can help eliminate terrorists while ensuring civilians don't die.
You have to understand socialist mentality to understand that
I think ground war is better way of limiting civilian casualties and killing more terrorists instead. It will probably mean more Israel soldiers death too though but if done properly, can help eliminate terrorists while ensuring civilians don't die.
I doubt any kind of warfare in a populated area can prevent civilian casualties. I think the penny has dropped here in relation to the limitation of aerial bombardments regarding the tunnel system though, which is why the IDF went in.
Too often our leadership opted for an easy escape route in the form of premature ceasefire. For all of Netanyahu's willingness to achive another temporary calm Hamas pushed him to the corner with its refusal to the Egyptian offer. Hopefully, this time Hamas military infrastructure will takes a bigger blow.
IDF agreed to a two-hour humanitarian ceasefire
Request made via Red Cross comes after night and morning of harsh shelling by IDF in Gaza City; Gazans say hundreds flee neighborhoods under fire.
Elior Levy
Latest Update: 07.20.14, 13:42 / Israel News
The IDF agreed to a two-hour humanitarian ceasefire in the Saja'iyya neighborhood of eastern Gaza City –from 1:30 pm to 3:30 pm – after Hamas asked Israel for the lull in hostilities at around noon Sunday to rescue the wounded and retrieve the dead. The request was made to Israel via the Red Cross.
Ynet security analyst, Ron Ben-Yishai, notes that Israel worries that a ceasefire would be exploited for a kidnapping or to prepare for other Hamas tactics. The heavy artillery fire on Saja'iyya and the air force sorties were intended to isolate the area of operations.
The IDF also announced it deployed a field hospital in the Erez Crossing to treat Palestinians wounded in the fighting. The announcement said the hospital would begin operating starting at 8 pm.
Foreign journalists have been trying to leave the Strip through the Erez Crossing but they are prevented from doing so by Hamas.
In the last few hours, the Palestinians have released harsh images of the dead and wounded, including children, who were killed overnight Saturday and Sunday morning in a massive IDF attack in the area.
Hamas is seeking to rile up the international community, and the Arab world in particular, including those who can pressure Israel to end the operation. The movement called the IDF action overnight a war crime.
"The massacre of civilians in Saja'iyya is a war crime that will not break the will of our people. The resistance will not allow the enemy to trample over the soil of Gaza," said a statement by the group.
Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri accused Israel of trying to compensate for its failure in the campaign against the group's military wing by taking its revenge out on the civilian population.
Overnight, the Palestinians reported the most intensive IDF attack in Gaza since Operation Protective Edge began, in neighborhoods in the east of Gaza City center. Official Gaza sources said that hundreds of residents of these neighborhoods had fled westward and were trying to find shelter at Shifa Hospital in the city. Unofficial reports indicate that thousands of people have fled the neighborhoods.
Among the dead is Osama Al-Haya, son of Hamas leader Khalil al-Haya. According to reports, the IDF bombed the house in which he was staying, and his wife and son were also killed. Medical officials in Gaza have accused Israel of preventing ambulances from reaching the site of the incident, despite a request made via the Red Cross.
Request made via Red Cross comes after night and morning of harsh shelling by IDF in Gaza City; Gazans say hundreds flee neighborhoods under fire.
Elior Levy
Latest Update: 07.20.14, 13:42 / Israel News
The IDF agreed to a two-hour humanitarian ceasefire in the Saja'iyya neighborhood of eastern Gaza City –from 1:30 pm to 3:30 pm – after Hamas asked Israel for the lull in hostilities at around noon Sunday to rescue the wounded and retrieve the dead. The request was made to Israel via the Red Cross.
Ynet security analyst, Ron Ben-Yishai, notes that Israel worries that a ceasefire would be exploited for a kidnapping or to prepare for other Hamas tactics. The heavy artillery fire on Saja'iyya and the air force sorties were intended to isolate the area of operations.
The IDF also announced it deployed a field hospital in the Erez Crossing to treat Palestinians wounded in the fighting. The announcement said the hospital would begin operating starting at 8 pm.
Foreign journalists have been trying to leave the Strip through the Erez Crossing but they are prevented from doing so by Hamas.
In the last few hours, the Palestinians have released harsh images of the dead and wounded, including children, who were killed overnight Saturday and Sunday morning in a massive IDF attack in the area.
Hamas is seeking to rile up the international community, and the Arab world in particular, including those who can pressure Israel to end the operation. The movement called the IDF action overnight a war crime.
"The massacre of civilians in Saja'iyya is a war crime that will not break the will of our people. The resistance will not allow the enemy to trample over the soil of Gaza," said a statement by the group.
Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri accused Israel of trying to compensate for its failure in the campaign against the group's military wing by taking its revenge out on the civilian population.
Overnight, the Palestinians reported the most intensive IDF attack in Gaza since Operation Protective Edge began, in neighborhoods in the east of Gaza City center. Official Gaza sources said that hundreds of residents of these neighborhoods had fled westward and were trying to find shelter at Shifa Hospital in the city. Unofficial reports indicate that thousands of people have fled the neighborhoods.
Among the dead is Osama Al-Haya, son of Hamas leader Khalil al-Haya. According to reports, the IDF bombed the house in which he was staying, and his wife and son were also killed. Medical officials in Gaza have accused Israel of preventing ambulances from reaching the site of the incident, despite a request made via the Red Cross.
Gaza Battle
IDF: Hamas fired on troops during two-hour humanitarian ceasefire it requested
Request made via Red Cross comes after night and morning of harsh shelling by IDF in Gaza City; Gazans say hundreds flee neighborhoods under fire; Hamas stopping foreign journalists from leaving Gaza.
Elior Lev, Reuters
Latest Update: 07.20.14, 13:42 / Israel News
The IDF said its troops came under fire in the Gaza City neighborhood of Saja'iyya on Sunday afternooon, less than an hour after Israel agreed to a Hamas request for a humanitarian truce to allow the evacuation of wounded from the area.
The military said its forces were shot at shortly after the two-hour truce, facilitated by the Red Cross, had begun at 1:30 pm, and that it had resumed combat operations. Hamas had no immediate comment on Israeli claims it had breached the ceasefire.
IDF: Hamas fired on troops during two-hour humanitarian ceasefire it requested
Request made via Red Cross comes after night and morning of harsh shelling by IDF in Gaza City; Gazans say hundreds flee neighborhoods under fire; Hamas stopping foreign journalists from leaving Gaza.
Elior Lev, Reuters
Latest Update: 07.20.14, 13:42 / Israel News
The IDF said its troops came under fire in the Gaza City neighborhood of Saja'iyya on Sunday afternooon, less than an hour after Israel agreed to a Hamas request for a humanitarian truce to allow the evacuation of wounded from the area.
The military said its forces were shot at shortly after the two-hour truce, facilitated by the Red Cross, had begun at 1:30 pm, and that it had resumed combat operations. Hamas had no immediate comment on Israeli claims it had breached the ceasefire.
The failed coup by Fatah
It was a Fatah coup againt Hamas
Can we please change the title of this thread? I get that leaving it is a sort of ironic comment on how this conflict is seemingly never ending or far away, but it's not comforting to read every day when talks have failed and children keep dying.
And as far as the civilian numbers, You are just in Denial. Why should we believe the numbers you give, when we you won't consider the UN report. This could be fabricated as well right. I mean for all you know, the 130 could be civilians.
Good idea. Its changed.
I'd say thats just about right.
For the first time, last night, Canadian national news portrayed Palestine as the victim. They had reporters in the hospitals in Gaza and showed the massacres going on. They also showed national protests of thousands of people (all ethnicities and races) coming out in support of Palestine, and a situation in which one older woman came to disrupt their protest with an Israeli flag. I think the international tide is turning on this conflict. No longer the public is seeing Israel as the victim. In general, it seems people are wholly sympathizing with Palestine, while our gov't stands with their moronic comments of "all of Canada standing with Israel"
Palestinian death toll in Gaza soars to 435 with at least 97 killed today.
Not a good idea. That thread and its title stands - recent posts should be put into a new thread
Thirteen Golani Brigade soldiers were killed in the Gaza Strip over the past 24 hours in several different incidents, the IDF cleared for publication on Sunday evening, bringing the number of killed soldiers in Operation Protective Edge to 18.
That's exactly what happened. Sad, sad times.
I don't belive anybody's numbers. I made that clear before. For all we know, many of the dead children we hear about could be combatants:
Maybe if the IDF hadn't suggested beforehand that the locals leave, thus giving Hamas more than a a hint of where they'll be arriving at, there would be less casualties within the military. But of course, the whole thing is just another proof of the IDF being blood thirsty...
That's what happens in massacres. I guess they were confronted with the Al Shaga'ya kids' water guns.
Did you see the video shown on French tv of the children playing football on the beach in gaza? Shocking stuff. The IDF have no excuse.
If we hadn't seen such footage no doubt the IDF would have come up with the usual lies.
No doubt many children have been killed as they have bombed residential areas.
112 since operation began.
Bill Maher @billmaher
Dealing w/ Hamas is like dealing w/ a crazy woman who's trying to kill u - u can only hold her wrists so long before you have to slap her
5:33 PM - 17 Jul 2014
13 Israeli kids were killed today. They defended their country which has been under constant rocket fire for weeks now, and 15 years
in total. We'll lose more of our excellent kids in the coming days/weeks, and I wish our leadership is strong enough not to bulk to international pressure when this mounts, and make the most of our kids' sacrifice.
in total. We'll lose more of our excellent kids in the coming days/weeks, and I wish our leadership is strong enough not to bulk to international pressure when this mounts, and make the most of our kids' sacrifice.
BBC getting a bit of a slap here too.
You say that and go on posting about Israeli death numbers. Why would you want to post that if you don;t believe it. Could it not be agenda driven by IDF??..Total hypocrisy right there
As long we are posting american satire on this issue. Here's one more.
Bill Maher @billmaher
Dealing w/ Hamas is like dealing w/ a crazy woman who's trying to kill u - u can only hold her wrists so long before you have to slap her
5:33 PM - 17 Jul 2014
If we are taking that Analogy, the IDF is not only raping that lady but her kids and family as well.
What would fit the agenda best? Lower or higher numbers? I am not sure I am following your logic.
Isn't it a much nicer way to debate, compared with the personal insults and name-calling that have dominated the last couple of days?
You say you don't believe any numbers quoted in papers, but keep posting number of Israeli deaths alone. Why would you post it if you don't believe it. Or is it just what is quoted by IDF and Israeli media that you believe in..
Children in Israel learn from such a young age. "I picture a dead Arab and that makes me happy."
I don't take Israeli figures on Palestinian death toll as gospel. I don't think we could have accurate figures. I also don't trust the Palestinians based on their dodgy past record in terms of fabricating horror stories.
As for the numbers of IDF casualties. Those have never been manipulated by Israel which is why they seem to be credible this time.
That's shameful. Disgrace.