Yeah, those children sure looked like combatants to me.
The Israeli army is one of the most advanced in the world. Its a bit unbelievable to think that they didn't have optical equipment to view targets before they fired.
Israeli - Palestinian Conflict
- Thread starter Raoul
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The Israeli army is one of the most advanced in the world. Its a bit unbelievable to think that they didn't have optical equipment to view targets before they fired.
Liberman has stated that he'd vacate his WB settlement if that was the democratic choice of the people of Israel, including that of yourself and other haters of your kind. That is as good as any democracy in the world. You also owe your country an apology for the crap you spouted in your earlier post. Not only Arabs in Israel enjoy freedom of speech, they also elect members of Parliament who collaborate with Israel's enemies before, during and after armed conflicts.
This isn't going to end before the Palestinians, yourself included, understand that the one thing we will never comromise on is the Jewish people's right for self-determination. There is only so much we can cave in under international pressure. In the meantime you can enjoy the fruits of the only ME democracy, despite your obvious hatred.
Oh, so it's all about reminding. With explosives and all that.
Give me a break. When you fire randomally, if it falls on someone it's most likely to fall on civilians. That's not targetting them, but it's no better in any way.
Come on. you reckon the rockets intercepted over Tel Aviv are random? Let's bring some common sense to this debate. Whether we agree or not on the historical background, it is clear as daylight that Israel was provoked to this round of violence. It is also clear that Hamas uses populated areas to place its launchers. There is enough to debate on from here.
fecking hell !
Well unfortunately, only Israel has the blood money being gifted to them to spend billions and billions on their tiny plot of landonn the latest weapons, tech and defences. It is like Tyson vs some 15 year old featherwight. It is not a war, it is a farce
Why start the whole thing, then, when you know your own people are the ones who are going to get the worst of it? Why, when Israeli tells people to leave their homes because they could be targetted, do you tell those people NOT go go anywhere?
The movement of Palestinian people
Rubbish. According to Olmert's offer the Palestinian border crossings were going to be monitored by NATO.
If your peace offer was worth shit you wouldn't insist that you could charge in whenever you wanted
I am not talking about the borders. This would be the movement of people within Palestine
I fully agree with Bill Clinton here. That's what we've been trying to tell the haters here. Israel has only bad choices right now, and it practices the one which will be the safest in the short-term. That's what you do under rocket bombardment.
I forgot, the Israelis are such good samaritans for asking people to leave their homes before they get bombed the shit out of. Ye, thats nice. And starting the whole thing....that is just a mind blowing statement to make.
Israel does what it wants, when it wants, sticks 2 fingers up to the rest of the world, the UN, anyone who gets in its way. For some reason, you have the rest of the world's leaders in your backpocket and i would love to know why.
No Israeli control over that. A 25 mile safe passage bettwen the WB and the GS, slicing Israel in two was always on the table, long before Olmert.
Do you agree then that "Hamas had a strategy designed to force Israel to kill their own (Palestinian) civilians so the rest of the world will condemn them"?
Noticeable shift in tone from CNN and BBC reporting today and yesterday. Israel look increasingly isolated and media reports have become noticeably less sympathetic to their cause after the claims that innocent Palestinian children were being caught in the crossfire were proven to be false in this blatant attack on children witnessed by journalists. They are crushing their enemy but the PR war is being lost.
Yes. Also I believe the IDF targets civilians on purpose to try to turn the people against Hamas. They are hoping that the people of Gaza will turn against Hamas and look for an alternative.
The IDF is an army full of scumbags. Many ordinary decent Israelis have turned their back on them.
All UN reports I have read on the subject highlight their poor behaviour. Its pretty clear cut that they are bullying and intimidating ordinary Palestinians and radicalizing them.
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True.
Unfortunately, I don't believe any peace agreement with the Palestinians will ever satisfy Hamas.
Maybe because the world leaders have more information than you, don't feed off just on what they see on TV and read on the net, and realize that while Israel certainly has its flaws, it's also right when it comes to a TERRORIST GROUP like Hamas?
Naturally you see some of the things said by Israeli here as mind blowing. From where I'm sitting I also see the naiveness of you and others here as just as mind blowing.
The PR war was never going to be won anyway. You've got over 200 dead on one side, one dead on the other.
Since the IDF is the people's army, meaning everyone (more or less ) serves, of course it has scumbags. Doesn't mean they are calling the shots.
Let me see, if the IDF kills Palestinians on purpose why would Hamas have to force the IDF into killing Palestinians?
Israel is well aware that pictures of dead kids are a tool used by its Arab enemies in armed conflicts, so why would it prvide those deliberately?
Over the last few pages we've seen Nazis, pigs, cancer, Gestapo... adding scumbags to the list is hardly a big deal.
It really is stunning how little people know and how much shit they are willing to write. I have plenty of problems with Israel and I do not hesitate to criticize, but I think I'd know if I were living in a Nazi state.
In my eyes, Hamas is a terrorist group and Israel is a TERRORIST STATE. You are just as bad as each other. One hand does not wash the other. There are also 'severity' of crimes. A kidnapping of a few Israeli men whilst it should have been condoned is NOT the same as bombing innocent civilians/country/homes for weeks.
Used how? All that the pictures do is sway internaltional opinion, which as we see counts for little. There is no forseeable armed conflict which is not a step closer to complete eradication of the Palestinians. The fact of the matter is that armed conflict is much less damaging to Israel than it is to Palestine, both in terms of stats and the end game.
I'm not getting involved in who is right or wrong, or whether which is attack and which is defence, or how it can be stopped but 'they make us kill babies even though it works against us' is a very lame line of argument.
Is that so? Who exactly has turned their backs on the army that protects this country for the mess around it?
Meanwhile, you might be interested to learn that the number of Arabs joining the IDF is on the rise. I suppose Ihab isn't one of them, but nevertheless:
Israeli army sees increase in Christian Arab recruits
Although there are only some 300 Christian Arabs serving in the Israel Defense Forces, 84 reportedly signed up in the last half of 2013 - three times the average rate.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.573172
Even you would have to admit the behavior of the IDF is scummy in many cases.
Even the Israel government has to charge and imprison some of them.
The Goldstone report by the UN showed up the IDF in a very bad light.
So you must disagree with the gregster and Bill Clinton then. Not a big deal disagreeing with the latter, but good luck with the other one.
Is it stunning? Where have you been all these years?
Clinton isnt saying it is right. He is explaining what he thinks is happening.
He never said it was the right thing to do.
Those are the lowest of the low. No matter how hard Israel tries to turn Christians and Muslims against each other inside of Israel itself, it won't work, we're all Palestinian, and this is not purely a matter of religion for most. I've talked to some of these lowlifes while working on a campaign against this notion, they have absolutely no knowledge of the struggle's history, most of them are doing it for money, many of them are selfish in wanting to side with the stronger.
I don't know why I'm arguing here though, nothing to be gained.
Well I can only go on UN reports on the behaviour of the IDF.
Are we to believe that the UN are a bunch of liars?
Are their claims that the IDF are committing war crimes to be dismissed?
Frankly? Burying my head under a rock. I rarely visit this thread, for instance, trying to streer clear of politics and stuf.
Nonsense line of argument. I am disagreeing with you that Israel are being coerced into killing children against their will and to their own detriment. Maybe elements of Hamas want that, but why cooperate.
Well the Nazis weren't "Nazis" to each other were they? Weren't they blinded by propaganda?
The behaviour of individula soldiers could be criminal, on occasions they've been imprisoned and I would agree that probably more should have been. The IDF as a whole puts huge efforts, in testing circumstances, to minimise civilian casualties. I'm not even getting into marality issues, or those of PR reasons. Dead civilians are bad for both, and therefore the reason behind this is irrelevant to this discussion.
The Goldstone report was a poor politically-motivated document which shamed the UN more than anyone else, but this has been done to death here.
They are certainly affected by certain powers. At the end of the day, even with the support of the US, Israel is just one country in the UN. I believe the UN Human rights council has issues decisions against Israel far more than against any other country. Seriously?