Israel agreed to a "safe passage" between the GS and the WB, which cuts Israel in two. But then E1 construction kills any hope for a two-state solution...
Israeli - Palestinian Conflict
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
A little meaningless at the moment. There's an indictment against him, but if he survives that without a major hit - and it's a far more lenient case than could have been - than he'll be back in a big role at the next government.
That's right HR, the big story here is definitely a newspaper extrapolating the wrong thing from this latest illegal land-grab.
At the end of the day, you can argue this shit until it comes out of your mouth, this was a British failing. It was totally irresponsible, no matter what the economical and social pressures were to leave Palestine. It's essentially unsolvable shit that requires an empirical force to control, but an empirical force can never put right - people will argue over the silliest line. I don't even thing that time can put this right. It's a USA enforced problem, and a British cowardice one. The state of Israel should not exist!
Imperial?
No!!!!!!
A fair two-state solution resulting in two contiguous states would have to mean Israel giving up it's southern portion (though not from Jerusalem) to Eilat, yes.
When the NYT prints unsubstantiated shit like this it is big news to me. I guess it is for other Israelis too. This is not a one-off. The big news is that Israel is condemned for construction plans by the same elements which rewarded Abbas for breaking bilateral agreements. Upgraded UN status for Palestine A (which refuses peace negotiations) while Palestine B is launching rockets at civilian targets in Israel.
The big news here is that this shit can't work anymore. I know pragmatists tend to blame the Bibis and Liebermans of this world, but how many Israelis still believe a viable peaceful solution to the conflict. Even Labour deserted this crap, because you can't sell it to the public. This is big fecking news, because all the condemnations in the world mean shit when a vast majority of Israelis understand that we're on our own, and will be when shit hits the fan after the next agreement/withdrawal. We understand your concern for human rights, but most of us suggest you take it to another playing field.
Would that include Dimona?
Possibly, in any case the land given up couldn't be much south of there, in order to provide said contiguous state.
Seems to me there is a land claimed by two separate peoples, both of whom will no doubt be able to quote endlessly from history and scriptures in proving it to be theirs. The solution to that is to divide the land equally between them to produce two states.
I'm obviously not saying it's achievable, but it's desirable.
Are you aware of the fact that the territory to be handed out includes Jordan?
Well yes, the world is sympathetic to the idea of a Palestinian state and not sympathetic to Israel constructing more homes on the land where that state would be. That's not double standards, the two things are the same issue.
Being sympathetic to the idea of Palestinian self-determination while ignoring that of the Jewish people is double standards. You are entitled to have them, but don't expect us to participate in this game at the expense of our own security.
But building a load of new settlements isn't necessary for Israeli self-determination.
I'm not aware of one if I'm honest.
Jewish self-determination is a fundamental part of any future agreement. Acknowledged by "international law", but not followed by ANY Palestinian leader to date. This is far from being a semantic definition of future Israel, and should be a clear indication that Palestinian aspirations are peaceful coexistence with Israel rather than replacing it. I guess your Arabic isn't good enough to question this notion, hence your "bargaining chip" stance.
I'd argue that this should be clearly stated to the Palestinians with all due respect to your sympathy. Instead you play their game by handing them incentives to avoid negotiations where each side is involved in give and take.
I haven't specified any exact area, are you saying it would be impossible to link Gaza and the West Bank without including Jordanian territory?
If so, don't rule it out anyway, many groups and peoples would have to make sacrifices to their ideals, maybe Jordan too.
Jordan doesn't have "ideals". It's a chunk of territory cut off mandatory Palestine and handed by the Brits to a loyal tribe.
I wonder whether there's one conflict in the entire world where so many people care offering an established opinion about despite having little relevant knowledge.
Jordan doesn't have "ideals". It's a chunk of territory cut off mandatory Palestine and handed by the Brits to a loyal tribe.
I wonder whether there's one conflict in the entire world where so many people care offering an established opinion about despite having little relevant knowledge.
I'm not sure what 'established' opinion is. I asked a simple question to try and learn from your relevant knowlege, but you chose not to answer it.
You have communication difficulties that laughing smilies and 'this' don't quite overcome.
I only asked a simple question:
"I haven't specified any exact area, are you saying it would be impossible to link Gaza and the West Bank without including Jordanian territory?"
I only asked a simple question:
"I haven't specified any exact area, are you saying it would be impossible to link Gaza and the West Bank without including Jordanian territory?"
Jordan doesn't have "ideals". It's a chunk of territory cut off mandatory Palestine and handed by the Brits to a loyal tribe.
I wonder whether there's one conflict in the entire world where so many people care offering an established opinion about despite having little relevant knowledge.
So... like Israel, then?
Of one what?
no
New settlement
New development, in the West Bank.
Thanks, I thought not, but I was open to you knowing something I didn't.
Jordan was a bit of a red herring then, but if they did have to give up a bit to achieve a fair solution you never know, they might.
Rockets hit Sderot as Obama visits Israel
Gaza fire resumes during US president's Middle East trip: Five Color Red alerts sound in southern city Thursday morning; one rocket lands in local house's backyard without causing any injuries, another rocket hits open area
Gaza fire resumes during US president's Middle East trip: Five Color Red alerts sound in southern city Thursday morning; one rocket lands in local house's backyard without causing any injuries, another rocket hits open area
The one state solution is inevitable. The time will come when Israel will have a consociational power sharing agreement.
Sure
There isnt going to be a two state solution. That is never going to happen. Israel living beside a Palestine state is not viable for security reasons. Also economically its not even close to being viable. The whole idea is pure fantasy at this stage.
Jordan is a potential viable Palestinian state.
it will be convenient if the Jordanians vacated.
The Arab population is too large to be pushed into something like that. Its larger that the Jewish population in Israel, the Occupied Gaza Strip, Occupied East Jerusalem and rest of the Occupied West Bank. They would have to be a vote on the issue and the Palestinian people would clearly reject it. There is virtually zero support for it.
Israel are effectively creating a single state with their policy of continuous invasion into "Palestinian land".
The only real question left is the make-up of the single state and how arabs will be treated.
The longer it goes on the more the Palestinians lose.
They don't have to. Jordanians are mostly Palestinian, whatever that means.
HR, I've already said you can call them Palestinians, Arabs, Semites, frogs, pieces of dirt, cockroaches, whatever, it doesn't shy away from the fact that they are there, living, working, farming and have been for centuries. They're not going to leave, either through words or force. It isn't 1948 anymore.
Mudar Zahran, leader of the Palestinians in Jordan
HR, I've already said you can call them Palestinians, Arabs, Semites, frogs, pieces of dirt, cockroaches, whatever, it doesn't shy away from the fact that they are there, living, working, farming and have been for centuries. They're not going to leave, either through words or force. It isn't 1948 anymore.
Mudar Zahran, leader of the Palestinians in Jordan
Exactly.
Their is no support among the Palestinians to join up with Jordan.The only way it could happen is by referendum which would be rejected.
The Israel state is stuck with 5.3million Palestinians. They cant just bully them across the border like in the past.
They have rights established under international law to reside in the region.