Israeli - Palestinian Conflict

NewDawnFades said:
Well it was a retarded thing to say, particularly given the patronising way you went about it.

One is a civil war, with a brutal dictator resorting to bombing its own people in order to cling to power. No matter who wins, for all intensive purposes the nation remains Syria.

Palestine is not and never will be a part of Israel. The Palestinian people are far poorer, less equipped and has already had land taken over, broken up and occupied and its outraged civilian population is now in danger of being reduced further.

Is that not an important distinction?

As for the self defense remarks, yes its hilarious. If a grown man beats a 8 year old boy to death, he still has to defend himself against the boy kicking out against him.
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Intents AND purposes
 
An Irish Red said:
It's not anti-semetic in the slightest, as you know. Fearless seems to take every comment that isn't full of unconditional praise and support for Israel, and it's actions, and turn it into anti-semetism.
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Golly Gee!!! I couldn't possibly imagine that happening here at the Cafe. :rolleyes:

Oh, and by the way:

More protests worldwide, this time promoted by Jews for Justice for Palestinians

http://jfjfp.com/?p=36047
 
An Irish Red said:
It's not anti-semetic in the slightest, as you know. Fearless seems to take every comment that isn't full of unconditional praise and support for Israel, and it's actions, and turn it into anti-semetism.
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He's a twat. Well when it comes to this anyway.

IDF+Kids=nsfl
SPOILER]
 
Seems the violence may be spreading to the West Bank as Israeli soldiers have shot dead a 22 year old.

Don't see how anyone can defend Israel in respect of their actions over the past few days. Yes they have a right to defend themselves but they must do so proportionately. Dropping bombs on houses where a suspected terrorist may or may not be or attacking buildings used by journalists is not acceptable and they should be punished for that crime.

Also, I've noticed Tony Blair's name has come up today on BBC's live feed. What is the point of him?
 
''Israel air forces have been deliberately targeting civilians' house in a serious breach of the International Law and Geneva conventions''
 
This from a newb, thought it should be shared up here.

lifaboy said:
Hi, I'm rather old in redcafe and I've been thinking for a few days wether or not to post local's thoughts about this war, I decided to do this eventually because it might give some people some prospective about what happends there.

My name is Gal, I'm in the military for a long time now, for those of you who don't know, every 18 year old boy and girl joins the army in Israel not all of the to be fighters, but still. This is not because we "want to takeover the world" like some people tend to think, but because we are living in a state of constant threat from the countries surrounding us.
In Israel, people divide in politics to right and left, that is very rough way of putting it but I'm trying to make this simpler. Right people are people who encourage more to have a tough army and be the "tough guys", and the left people are the people who wants more talks with the enemy, and to give away grounds to the Palestinians. These are the drastic people of each sides, both sides have their problems with agendas, because the left people aren't aware of the fact that a big part of the Palestinians and other Arab people surrounding us are part of terror organizations like Hammas, and they aren't interested of talk but they want to destroy us, quite simple. The problem with right people, is that the drastic people there are stupid and don't believe there are people to talk to there at all, the easy mistake right people tend to make, is think that "all Arab people are terrorists", a statement that is far far from true.

The real problem is that they are both wrong, there are many people and they are the most Arabs who want peace, and want to talk and will happily live in two countries in Israel's territory or one mixed country, but although they are the most, they are being depressed by terrorist organizations who control their respective countries with power and depression. Israeli people are far from being saints, some of them are shouting "death to all Arabs" and they are stupid, no doubt they are stupid, you have extremists in every country, for me, these people are horrible like anti-Semites, but they are a minority.

This war has started because Hammas are using Gazza to bomb us with long range missiles constantly for the past few years, people in southern Israel have to live in safe houses(shelters from missiles) for a while now, having alarms all day long and bombs falling in their backyards, killing their children. This is no way to live. So the Israeli Government has decided to try to end this, they've used the air force to kill a very highly ranked man in the Hammas, their head of military. Since than, the Israeli air force is bombing constantly in Gazza destroying bombs shelters and launching sites, killing some Hammas people. In the meantime, Hammas is firing rockets non stop, so far killing some civillians, and mainly doing damage to buildings and making life a living hell for people who live in southern Israel and reaching with their missiles to central Israel for the first time in 20 years.

The big problem is, that this is no ordinary war between two countries, this is a war between an army and a terror organization! Hammas is spending tons of money to media propaganda, I'll give you two examples for that from recent days.
A few days ago Hammas has posted a picture in the world showing a baby covered with blood they claimed was from an Israeli attack in Gazza, I'm having some problems finding this specific photo but the truth is that photo was a baby who'se parents killed in an attack of Hammas in a small town in Israel called Kiriiat Malachi. The baby survived but was injured badly, his parents and big sister died.
Second example is another picture Hammas posted a few days ago, of a man standing when his whole family died. This one is absurd, because this man is from Siria and his whole family died because of the fight between the army and the rebels in Siria and it was taken a few months ago.
Hammas is doing this over and over again presenting Israeli army as beasts and them as saints who suffer.

Another problem is that Hammas are using foul and disgusting ways to survive, because we bomb their members, and they know we try to avoid killing civillians as much as possible, they use children and other harmless civillians as human shields to survive, believe me, I've seen it, it's appalling.

I have no doubt that the people who live in Gazza have a very very very low lifestyle, they live in poor conditions and have to work all day to get some bread to feed their family, and I feel sorry for them I really do, and I know for a fact that Israel are providing the Gazza civillians food, medicine and more every day by trucks trying to help them improve by a bit their low lifestyle, and whole of Gazza is getting free electricity from Israel, because they don't have the resources like power plants, we provide all of them electricity free of charge, they are connected to Israel's water supply, and the list goes on and on. These are the stuff you don't hear on the news.

So to conclude, I'm not claiming Israel are saints and you should all love Israel, but living in a state of fear because all of the time you are bombed by a terrorist organization is no way to live. Hammas are using every low leveled trick they can to make the world hate Israel and believe we are animals who kill people there without thinking one bit, this isn't the situation. A massive amount of people in Gazza pray every day for Hammas to disappear because they are what prevent Israel-Palestine talking to take a huge step forward, and Israel's army are doing everything possible to help the Gazza civillians and hurt as few of them as possible, and keep providing them food and electricity and water and medical supply to keep them alive, because we are humain, and we are a democratic country and have westren values, and we are not looking to simply kill everything that's on our way, believe me, Gazza is so small and the Israeli army is so strong, if the Israeli government wanted Gazza to be dead or destroyed they could've done it easily. We don't want it. WE WANT PEACE! But we have to look after our civillians who suffer from terrorists attack every day.




I ask you people, don't believe everything the media say, they are full of shit claiming good and bad things for both sides because they will say anything to make you watch it. And don't judge if you don't know how it's like living in constant threat with terrorists looking of ways to kill you daily.

One more thing, in Israel you can find radicals from both ends, radicals who want everybody dead and radicals who want utopia and peace everywhere, the first is utterly stupid and the second is currently impossible unfortunately. We all hate the radicals because they don't offer a possible/humain solutions, but most people here are humain and want peace, simply not at any cost. We deserve acknowledgment in the world as a legitimate country and people, some countries in the middle west aren't willing to give us this, and it's a shame.

Thank you for your time, hopefully everything will be settled soon and everybody will be living peacefully.
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ha_rooney said:
Seems the violence may be spreading to the West Bank as Israeli soldiers have shot dead a 22 year old.

Don't see how anyone can defend Israel in respect of their actions over the past few days. Yes they have a right to defend themselves but they must do so proportionately. Dropping bombs on houses where a suspected terrorist may or may not be or attacking buildings used by journalists is not acceptable and they should be punished for that crime.

Also, I've noticed Tony Blair's name has come up today on BBC's live feed. What is the point of him?
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He's the Middle East peace envoy. I genuinely thought it was a long-running ironic joke but apparently its for real. I hope he visits the region and gets poisoned by a dodgy olive.
 
VoetbalWizard said:
fao plech and resident forum jewish peoples...do you think the jews that moved to the US made a better choice for themselves and their families post holocaust than the zionists who ran to israel?

Serious question like.
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It's difficult to say. One thing is for sure - those that moved to Israel definitely made the lives of those outside of Israel a lot better.

lem8sh said:
Thats what they seem to be doing
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Let's just think about the following:

1) According to the Palestinians Gaza is one of the most overpopulated areas in the world.

2) Israel has some of the most sophisticated weapons in the world, capable of mass destruction.

3) According to Hamas, the death toll of Palestinians has just gone over 100 (number of militants not confirmed).

4) According to the IDF, 1350+ terror sites throughout the Gaza strip have been targeted since the start of the operation.

Now that's what I call targeted precision. It doesn't look like indiscriminate attacks on Palestinian civilians.
 
Very good talk recently given by Miko Peled, an Israeli peace activist who was the son of an IDF general (which probably makes him anti-Semitic):

 
Kaos said:
He's the Middle East peace envoy. I genuinely thought it was a long-running ironic joke but apparently its for real. I hope he visits the region and gets poisoned by a dodgy olive.
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For all of his ills, the combination of him, Bertie Ahern and Bill Clinton brought a peace to the Northern Ireland issue that wouldn't been dreamt of ten years before.
 
Traub said:
Let's just think about the following:

1) According to the Palestinians Gaza is one of the most overpopulated areas in the world.

2) Israel has some of the most sophisticated weapons in the world, capable of mass destruction.

3) According to Hamas, the death toll of Palestinians has just gone over 100 (number of militants not confirmed).

4) According to the IDF, 1350+ terror sites throughout the Gaza strip have been targeted since the start of the operation.

Now that's what I call targeted precision. It doesn't look like indiscriminate attacks on Palestinian civilians.
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That's a fair point.
 
Obvious racist is obvious, good riddance.

I have nothing against Israelis, Jews, Muslims are any creed or nation, but I don't have time for the killing that's going on in Palestine. The media don't seem to care, but I do. Hamas aren't innocent, and need to be over thrown, but the IDF are a cancer in society too.
 
JakeC said:
A lot more then 100 people have been killed since the start though
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I'm just quoting what I saw on the BBC website. May I ask where you saw 'A lot more then 100 people have been killed'?
 
Excal said:
If mjs wanted to come back, he probably shouldn't have picked the "post a bunch of porn, calling everyone a bunch of socialist cocksuckers" method of taking a break.
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You couldn't empathise, you don't pay taxes for starters.
 
I have never been happy seeing someone being banned. Until now.

I even got out of this thread just to don't let myself replying in his posts, because then I could have been banned.
 
I'm proud to say I reported the prick
 
JakeC said:
I'm proud to say I reported the prick
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boooooo ya grass :lol:

Just kidding, he was very deserving. Can't believe he didn't grasp the irony of him, the man who obviously has a hatred of Arabs, accusing people who are opposed to the political movement of Zionism of hating jews.
 
Count Orduck said:
For all of his ills, the combination of him, Bertie Ahern and Bill Clinton brought a peace to the Northern Ireland issue that wouldn't been dreamt of ten years before.
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Fair enough, I would have no qualms about him being labelled 'The Northern Ireland peace envoy' if such a thing existed.

Though lying to start a pointless war in the Middle East which led to some 100,000 people being killed and being rewarded with the title of "Middle Eastern peace envoy" for your troubles does seem like a sick joke.
 
I presumed he was right wing, was he?
 
117 Palestinians dead including 30 children 10 women and 12 elderly, 860 injured including 260 children and 140 women aand 55 elderly
 
JakeC said:
117 Palestinians dead including 30 children 10 women and 12 elderly, 860 injured including 260 children and 140 women aand 55 elderly
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Do you think these deaths would be steadily rising if there were no more rockets being fired into Israel? Just curious really...
 
I don't understand what Hamas is trying to achieve by firing over a thousand rockets at Israel? Are they trying to kill people?!
 
KingCantona87 said:
Do you think these deaths would be steadily rising if there were no more rockets being fired into Israel? Just curious really...
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Though the question is not on me, I will reply on it (don't think I am doing any harm if I do it).

While Hamas's rockets have make situation worse, IMO in the end of the day it was just an excuse by Israel. For the smallest incident Israel makes sure to pay it 100 times worse to Palestinians.
 
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