Israeli - Palestinian Conflict

Mihajlovic said:
Come on Uzz, they didn't just randomly walk up to that woman at the bus stop and shot her. We've already went through all this before.
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Jerusalem: IOF shot-dead Palestinian, eyewitnesses refute any “stab attempt”

Settlers attack Nablus homes
1 day ago


PNN/ Jerusalem/

A Palestinian youth on Monday morning has been executed by Israeli occupation police forces, under claims that he tried to initiate a stab operative near Lion’s Gate (Bab Al-Asbat) in the old city of Jerusalem.


Mustafa Al-Khatib (18) killed this morning by IOF
Walla Israeli website claimed that Mustafa Al-Khatib (18) from Sur Baher town, East Jerusalem, tried to stab an Israeli officer in Jerusalem, but the police shot him, leading to his immediate death.

Al-Khatib is in his last year of study (Tawjihi grade) in Al-Ibrahimiyyah high school in Jerusalem.

Eyewitnesses at the scene confirmed that the man did not initiate any stabbing attempts, saying that he was passing in his vehicle through the old city’s narrow street, when the police stopped him, and opened fire on him for no apparent reason.

Other eyewitnesses said that he was taking out his mobile phone from his pocket, when IOF shot him.
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From this morning.
 
Also from this morning:
The Palestinian ministry of health on Sunday evening announced the death of Ahmad Abdullah Sharakeh (13) from Al-Jalazon refugee camp in Ramallah, due to wounds he sustained earlier in clashes near the Bet El settlement, north of Al-Bireh city.

The ministry said that Ahmad suffered brain hemorrhage after Israeli Occupation Forces had earlier hit him with a rubber-coated metal bullet in the head.

With Ahmad, the number of deaths since the beginning of October reached 25; 14 in The occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem, and 11 in the Gaza strip.

The ministry said that the number of Palestinians wounded by live ammunition and rubber-bullets hit over 1300.
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Terrorist's lawyer: It was just an accident, the Jews attacked him
Perpetrator of Sunday's attack near Hadera appears in court, claims that he responded to Jews attacking him.

Ala Mhamed Zwid, the terrorist who conducted Sunday night's vehicular and stabbing attack in Gan Shmuel, near Hadera, claims that the attack was an accident, his lawyer said on Monday during the extension of his remand.

"My client says that this whole thing began as just an accident, and that he was attacked by Jews afterward," Wassim Araf, Zwid's defense lawyer, said. "He tried to protect himself. His claims are being verified and the truth will emerge."

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4710085,00.html

You just couldn't make this up. Only in Israel.
 
...and as we post here another two Zionists attacked a poor Palestinian knife in Jerusalem. Eyewitnesses claim that the female Palestinian victim was simply picking her nose when a couple of Jews stabbed themselves, threw the Palestinian knife next to her having smeared it up with blood so that the occupying Zionist forces could shoot her in cold blood.

Another execution. I read this on Facebook.
 
#breaking:Taxi incident: Arab woman from Haifa exited cab and began hitting man passing by. The woman was arrested and taken for questioning. She was unarmed and no one was hurt.

Finally!
 
It appears that the Palestinians that slaughtered the 13 yo were teenagers themselves, aged 13 and 15. Little wonder as teenage terrorists are hailed as martyrs.

Miserable bastards are victims of their own people's culture of death.
 
Kanouté & Keita approve

Europa football champions Sevilla reject Israeli sponsorship millions

The Spanish football club Sevilla has rejected a €5 million ($5.7 million) sponsorship deal to advertise tourism in Israel on its players’ shirts.

The 2015 UEFA Europa League champions turned down the offer due to the “political connotations” of appearing to support Israel, according to the Spanish sports publication Mundo Deportivo.

Club sources told the sports website ElDesmarque that the image Israeli sponsorship would project “could be detrimental to Sevilla, especially taking into account present political issues and sensibilities and the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.”

The Israeli ministry of tourism offered Sevilla more than twice the sum it received in its last sponsorship agreement with Malaysia, according to a report in Israel’s Ynet.

In January 2009, Frédéric Kanouté, then one of Sevilla’s star players, was fined by the Spanish football federation for wearing a shirt with the word “Palestine” during a match against La Coruna.

It was a widely appreciated demonstration of solidarity with Palestinians in Gaza who were at that time under massive bombardment by Israel.

As of now, Sevilla has not found a sponsor for the coming season, which means its players will take to the pitch with blank shirts, a blow to the Andalusian club’s finances, Mundo Deportivo says.

But it appears that even much-needed millions can’t tempt Sevilla to associate itself with Israel’s toxic brand – its signature massacres in Gaza, military occupation and settler attacks on Palestinians in the West Bank and mobs chanting “Death to the Arabs” in the streets of Jerusalem and Tel Aviv.
 
Stabbing and shooting random passengers in busses and ramming cars into clueless pedestrians are, on the other hand, very honourable deeds to commit.
 
It's almost as if people on both sides of the conflict are doing bad things.
 
Palestinians murder innocent civilians, and countless more Palestinians will die as a result of Israel defensive measures. Another round of violence will eventually fade with Palestinians living in the gutter and Israel continuing to prosper.

Some things will never change.
 
Someone posted a video of the bus stop attack on twitter and I stupidly watched it. Similar to the Rigby murder, I guess. How the hell can one human do that to another? I get the fact you can have a political ideology that makes you despise an oppressor. I'm Irish. I can relate to that. But that degree of up close up brutality aimed at an unarmed, elderly man is just impossible to understand.
 
Just watched the video of the bus stop attack.

The dude in the white shirt is a hero. Literally within seconds he had drawn his gun and was running at the attacker without knowing what sort of danger he might have been putting himself in. I guess it sometimes does pay to have civilians who are packing.
 
holyland red said:
Palestinians murder innocent civilians, and countless more Palestinians will die as a result of Israel defensive measures. Another round of violence will eventually fade with Palestinians living in the gutter and Israel continuing to prosper.

Some things will never change.
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Seems like Israel and Palestine will never reach any kind of consensus. I just can't see it happening. Firstly Israel's right to exist has to be recognised, then Israel has to make concessions.

Can't see the first happening, and if, by some miracle it does, then I'd be surprised if the second happened.
 
I remember seeing a documentary on Israeli neighborhoods/ mini cities in the West Bank . It was overwhelming to see a construction every three kilometers . Israel is entitled to defend its territory but as @Mciahel Goodman just said , should do more concessions
 
carvajal said:
I remember seeing a documentary on Israeli neighborhoods/ mini cities in the West Bank . It was overwhelming to see a construction every three kilometers . Israel is entitled to defend its territory but as @Mciahel Goodman just said , should do more concessions
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My take is that Palestinians need to, for the sake of pragmatics, relinquish their claim to all of Israel and just focus on the parts that they have lost more recently. A unification would be a major step forward, but would it be welcomed within the two camps, dissident as they are? Lot of hurdles to jump given the fractious nature of representation. They're simple not organised and can't offer a resolution with credibility because of this. I guess Israel likes it that way as they don't particularly want to grant concessions.

In simple terms, it was wrong that they had land taken from them. However, there's nothing that can be done about that so they need to recognise this and salvage whatever they can through purely peaceful means. If they drop all weapons and whatnot, make conciliatory gestures, then the world will look at the situation and the "Well, they're terrorists" thing can't be used as a stick to beat them with. More Gandhi, less Castro.
 
The trouble is peace suits neither the Israeli hardliners with their expansionist agenda nor the Islamic fundamentalists with their doomsday solutions. It just so unfortunately happens that both groups currently represent the leadership of each respective party in this conflict. The occupation of East Jerusalem and the West Bank remains a disgrace though.
 
Kaos said:
The trouble is peace suits neither the Israeli hardliners with their expansionist agenda nor the Islamic fundamentalists with their doomsday solutions. It just so unfortunately happens that both groups currently represent the leadership of each respective party in this conflict. The occupation of East Jerusalem and the West Bank remains a disgrace though.
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Occupation from whom? In 1988 the Jordanians gave up any claim for the WB.
 
I never understood that claim fully, doesn't legally occupation occur only when one state invades another sovereign state? Like the U.S invasion and subsequent occupation of Iraq, for example. Some refer to WB as 'disputed territory'. Again, not sure what that means legally (and under which law exactly) but it seems a better description?
 
Mihajlovic said:
I never understood that claim fully, doesn't legally occupation occur only when one state invades another sovereign state? Like the U.S invasion and subsequent occupation of Iraq, for example. Some refer to WB as 'disputed territory'. Again, not sure what that means legally (and under which law exactly) but it seems a better description?
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Occupation sounds better. Kind of a buzzword like Apartheid, expansionist and illegal.
 
holyland red said:
Occupation sounds better. Kind of a buzzword like Apartheid, expansionist and illegal.
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And 'disproportional'.

Technically speaking though, if the Arab representatives (who would have actually been the head of the new Palestinian state in 1948?!) never accepted the partition plan, then the Jordanians also did not really occupy Judea and Samaria, right? It's basically as if the territory was up to grabs for anyone after the British declared their withdrawal and the Arabs did not formally accept the plan?
 
It'd be like if we stopped by your home tomorrow, decided to partition it without your consent and gradually move you completely out of your home over time while meanwhile killing, starving and harrassing your family members as they moved you out into a nearby bin.
 
Mihajlovic said:
I never understood that claim fully, doesn't legally occupation occur only when one state invades another sovereign state? Like the U.S invasion and subsequent occupation of Iraq, for example. Some refer to WB as 'disputed territory'. Again, not sure what that means legally (and under which law exactly) but it seems a better description?
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Technically occupation refers to a ruling power controlling a territory not formally under its sovereignty, without permission of the actual sovereign power. So the definition hinges on whether the territory is under Israeli sovereignty, and whether Israel is controlling the territory. According to the UN, and basically everyone except for Israel, the answers to those questions are no and yes respectively, which is why its termed as an occupation.
 
FCBarca said:
It'd be like if we stopped by your home tomorrow, decided to partition it without your consent and gradually move you completely out of your home over time while meanwhile killing, starving and harrassing your family members as they moved you out into a nearby bin.
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Bad analogy. I legally own my home so there's nothing to partition here- unless you invade and occupy me. What got partitioned though was a huge mass of land, some of which completely uninhabited. What the partition plan would also have meant is that for the first time in history the Palestinian Arabs would have had their own, independent state. Which they rejected, unfortunately for them.
 
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jeff_goldblum said:
Technically occupation refers to a ruling power controlling a territory not formally under its sovereignty, without permission of the actual sovereign power. So the definition hinges on whether the territory is under Israeli sovereignty, and whether Israel is controlling the territory. According to the UN, and basically everyone except for Israel, the answers to those questions are no and yes respectively, which is why its termed as an occupation.
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Who's that sovereign power in this case? The PA?
 
jeff_goldblum said:
Technically occupation refers to a ruling power controlling a territory not formally under its sovereignty, without permission of the actual sovereign power. So the definition hinges on whether the territory is under Israeli sovereignty, and whether Israel is controlling the territory. According to the UN, and basically everyone except for Israel, the answers to those questions are no and yes respectively, which is why its termed as an occupation.
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Who is that?
 
jeff_goldblum said:
I'm not sure, given that the UN is the source of Israel's legitimacy I suppose you'd have to ask them. But if it doesn't exist then it can't very well give Israel permission to control its territory, and if it does exist, it definitely hasn't.
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Hence the ambiguity regarding the legal definition of Israel's presence in the WB. Add to that the fact that Jerusalem was never meant to be under Arab rule according to the partition plan, yet we always hear about "occupied East Jerusalem and the WB". Lazy and biased.
 
Mihajlovic said:
Bad analogy. I legally own my home so there's nothing to partition here- unless you invade and occupy me. What got partitioned though was a huge mass of land, some of which completely uninhabited. What the partition plan would also have meant is that for the first time in history the Palestinian Arabs would have had their own, independent state. Which they rejected, unfortunately for them.
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He's referring to illegal settlements, and the perpetual illegal encroachment of land that isn't theirs. It's like me rocking up in Serbia with a mandate, and bit by bit, claiming more and more land while the world turns a blind eye, eventually to the point where

"gradually move you completely out of your home over time while meanwhile killing, starving and harrassing your family members as they moved you out into a nearby bin."

occurs.
 
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