Israeli - Palestinian Conflict

Revan said:
I am not drawing moral equivalence, just saying that both sides need different politics, and with the current leadership there is no way that is going to happen.

Obviously a tw-country solution is the only solution which can work in long term. Israel should stop the new settlements (and remove those which have been created in the last 10 years or so), Hamas or whoever leads Palestinians should stop throwing rockets and Arab states should recognize Israel.

Not going to happen, obviously!
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Again, opinions may vary but when statements include "both sides should..." they appear shallow (no offence).

It is true that Bibi's coalition is weak, and he wouldn't want to upset the right-wing members of his coalition. However, if there was a chance for an historic peace agreement he'd easilly get the support of the entire centrist-left block, making right-wing parties redundant for forming a new coalition. Israel's parliament voted for peace with Egypt (Begin as PM), Oslo and peace treaty with Jordan (PM Rabin), pullout from Gaza (PM Sharon) and would do so again if there was a viable agreement which would end the Arab-Israeli conflict.

On the other hand you have Palestinian politics. Two chunks of territory, two different leaderships. Both non-democratic, hence you have no way to make peace with the Palestinian people, but with corrupt politicians at best. Neither faction accepts a Jewish Israel, i.e. both would preseve a struggle as long as one exists. Who does Israel make peace with in these circumstances even if it wanted to?

The bolded part is a proof that people can agree on at least some of the stuff in this thread.
 
Fearless said:
At last you see the light.
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Honest question - do you really think I'm an anti semite?

Antisemitism (also spelled anti-Semitism or anti-semitism) is prejudice against, hatred of, or discrimination against Jews as an ethnic, religious, or racial group. A person who holds such positions is called anantisemite.
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There's the definition. Genuinely interested if you think that of me.
 
The only solution is to kick out the israelis and palestinians and give the land to the kurds while settling the former two in opposite sides of the globe with a couple of oceans in between.
 
Grief and anger as Palestinian teacher killed in arson attack is laid to rest


As Reham Dawabsheh becomes latest victim to die after firebombing by suspected Jewish extremists Israeli police face questions over slow investigation



Members of Palestinian National Security Forces carry the body of Reham Dawabsheh during her funeral. Photograph: Abed Omar Qusini/Reuters


Monday 7 September 2015 19.21 BSTLast modified on Tuesday 8 September 201500.01 BST

Reham Dawabsheh should have celebrated her 27th birthday on Sunday.

Instead, the teacher from the Palestinian West Bank village of Duma died in hospital, the third member of her family – including her infant son – to haveperished following an arson attack on their home by suspected Jewish extremists on 31 July.

As her family buried her on Monday afternoon, the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, declared three days of mourning and ordered flags be lowered to half-mast.



Palestinian schoolgirls write messages on the walls of the home of schoolteacher Reham Dawabsheh. Photograph: Peter Beaumont/the Guardian
Reham Dawabsheh suffered third-degree burns on 90% of her body during the firebomb attack in July, which also claimed the lives of her 18-month-old son Ali and husband Sa’ad.

The only family member to survive was the couple’s four-year-old son Ahmad, who is still undergoing treatment in an Israeli hospital for severe burns over most of his body. A relative, Amjad Dawabsheh, told Israeli Army Radio on Monday that the boy has not been told what happened to his parents and brother.

“How can we tell him, ‘Your father and mother and brother died?’” he said.

The family’s small brick and cement home was gutted by the fire and a Star of David was painted on a wall along with the words “revenge” and “long live the Messiah”.

Pupils from Dawabsheh’s school and others in the neighbourhood made a solemn procession through the house on Monday, pausing to examine where the family members died and write messages for the popular teacher on the soot-stained walls.

As several thousand mourners descended on the village near the West Bank city of Nablus, Israel’s police investigation was criticised by friends and relatives of the Dawabsheh family and the Israeli media for being slow in finding the killers.

Palestinians decry Israel after Reham Dawabsheh’s death
Dawabsheh’s death was announced in the early hours of Monday morning. Her condition had worsened after she spent nearly five weeks on life support at the intensive care unit of Sheba medical centre in Tel Hashomer.

As mourners gathered in the family home in Duma, her mother Satireh was overcome by grief. “I can’t speak,” she exclaimed among other female mourners. “I cannot stand!”

Dawabsheh’s father, Hussein, added: “We felt that Reham would not survive. This whole time we were praying for her … but after all attempts to save her failed, she died a martyr.”


A mourner examines the crib where Reham Dawabsheh’s 18 month-old-son Ali died in the firebomb attack. Photograph: Peter Beaumont/for the Guardian
One of Dawabsheh’s cousin’s, Aisha Dawabsheh, 47, told the Guardian: “We have been living here for over a month not sure of her condition. At first they said she was improving but a skin graft didn’t work. We knew it was serious and we could not sleep. We were expecting this news.”

Dewabsheh’s body was taken back to her village after a postmortem in Nablus, ordered by the Palestinian Authority, which intends to refer the case to the international criminal court.

Dawabsheh’s body, draped in the Palestinian flag, was carried from the village school to the nearby cemetery by an honour guard of Palestinian security forces. Among those who came to pay respects were teachers from around Nablus, including Hisham Awwad, a local headteacher.

“All the schools south of Nablus closed early today as a mark of respect,” he said. “I don’t understand why no one has been arrested for this crime.”

The Duma attack was only the latest in a series of nationalist hate crimes, known as “price-tag” attacks, by suspected Jewish extremists. Despite the arrest of several people since, it is not clear whether any of those who have been questioned have been linked formally to the murder investigation.

“Over a month has passed and the Israeli government hasn’t yet brought the terrorists to justice,” said Saeb Erekat, secretary general of the Palestine Liberation Organisation.



A young mourner at the funeral of Reham Dawabsheh. Photograph: Peter Beaumont/the Guardian
“If Israel is not stopped and held accountable, then Reham will not be the last victim of Israeli terror,” he added.

The United Nations envoy to the Middle East, Nikolay Mladenov, also voiced concern over “the lack of progress in identifying and prosecuting the perpetrators of this outrage”.

The Israeli prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, called the attack an act of terrorism and ordered a crackdown on violent far-right Jewish groups in the days after the firebombing. Measures introduced since the attack allow the detention without trial of Israeli citizens suspected of political violence against Palestinians, as well as harsher interrogations – previously reserved largely for Palestinian suspects.
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The mother of the baby that was killed has now sadly passed away as well.
 
Uzz said:
Wow - who'd have thought us 2 could get along! A ray of hope! I'll give it a read in the morning...I have a deadline for tomorrow morning that I'm still working on.
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Having looked through it, this is the relevant point

There is nothing anti-Semitic about criticising Benjamin Netanyahu, the Likud-led government, or the policies of the State of Israel. There is nothing anti-Semitic about sympathising with the plight of the Palestinians (though it might be nice to recognise their culpability in the conflict too). There is nothing anti-Semitic about lacerating Israel for walls and checkpoints and bombs (though do address your alternative strategies to Beit Aghion, 9 Smolenskin Street, Jerusalem, Israel.)
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Uzz said:
Agree with you re the article.

I don't think anyone in this thread has come out with anything antisemitic, or shown any prejudice against Jewish people, so I'm not sure why that word gets banded about so carelessly.
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Only one poster has that I can think of.

I'm struggling to recall any times someone has been directly accused of being an antisemite in this thread though?
 
2cents said:
Only one poster has that I can think of.

I'm struggling to recall any times someone has been directly accused of being an antisemite in this thread though?
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I'm sure JeffG was accused of being an anti-semite a while back.

Also, a guy called Gannicus intimated that I was an antisemite.
 
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Uzz said:
I'm sure JeffG was accused of being an anti-semite a while back.

Also, a guy called Gannicus intimated that I was an antisemite.
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Yeah, not naming names but both of who I'd class as the most active pro-Israel posters in this thread accused me of being anti-Semitic during a round of debate in this thread a couple of months ago.

I was responding to the argument commonly used in this thread, and the wider debate, which was basically 'Israel's actions between 1947 and the modern day are morally justified because Israel is the Jewish homeland'.

I responded that it was only the Jewish homeland at any time because it was taken in conquest and that the position which some in the Israeli government and some in this thread hold (namely the argument that, in 1947, the Jewish people had a greater claim to that specific territory than anyone else) was based on a strange assumption that the Jewish claim to the land was somehow more credible than that of any other group who had come to inhabit the territory at any point over the last 3000 years, including those who currently lived on it. I argued that that view (not the view that the Jewish people had a right to statehood, simply the view that such a state had the right to exist on top of what was then Arab-Palestine) was based in religious dogma - at which point I was accused of anti-Semitism.
 
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jeff_goldblum said:
Yeah, not naming names but both of who I'd class as the most active pro-Israel posters in this thread accused me of being anti-Semitic during a round of debate in this thread a couple of months ago.

I was responding to the argument commonly used in this thread, and the wider debate, which was basically 'Israel's actions between 1947 and the modern day are morally justified because Israel is the Jewish homeland'.

I responded that it was only the Jewish homeland at any time because it was taken in conquest and that the position which some in the Israeli government and some in this thread hold (namely the argument that, in 1947, the Jewish people had a greater claim to that specific territory than anyone else) was based on a strange assumption that the Jewish claim to the land was somehow more credible than that of any other group who had come to inhabit the territory at any point over the last 3000 years, including those who currently lived on it. I argued that that view (not the view that the Jewish people had a right to statehood, simply the view that such a state had the right to exist on top of what was then Arab-Palestine) was based in religious dogma - at which point I was accused of anti-Semitism.
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Yea, I'm with you on this - it wasn't right, and it seems an easy retort to get out of addressing the issue.

Tbf to Fearless one of the posters, I think he did apologise, or retract his statement after he called you it.
 
jeff_goldblum said:
I responded that it was only the Jewish homeland at any time because it was taken in conquest and that the position which some in the Israeli government and some in this thread hold (namely the argument that, in 1947, the Jewish people had a greater claim to that specific territory than anyone else) was based on a strange assumption that the Jewish claim to the land was somehow more credible than that of any other group who had come to inhabit the territory at any point over the last 3000 years, including those who currently lived on it. I argued that that view (not the view that the Jewish people had a right to statehood, simply the view that such a state had the right to exist on top of what was then Arab-Palestine) was based in religious dogma - at which point I was accused of anti-Semitism.
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Here we go again...

It really depends on what metrics you base the establishment on any state on. Most are by conquest (especially in the ME), others, such as Israel, by the League of Nations. Nothing outlandish here, certainly the given context and era which cannot be ignored. Furthermore, what you refer to as 'Arab Palestine' is not the case. Only the ignorant (and your not that either!) would assume that a bunch of Jews came along and rudely plopped themselves on top of the population of the Sovereign State of Palestine. Not the case, given we're talking about a small corner of the old Ottoman Empire, mandated by the British.
In addition, the original (Arab rejected) partition was based upon a Jewish majority in the towns that would soon form the Jewish state. These communities had been their forever, supplemented by Jewish AND Arab migrants looking for work. The land, for the most part, was bought off Arab landlords for a healthy sum too.

So far I haven't even mentioned religion, but again, no matter your view on the subject, it's significance cannot be overlooked.

One things for sure, had Israel been a home set for the Mormons or Jedi's, it just wouldn't get the coverage, no matter how many died. That is the point here.
 
Uzz said:
Yea, I'm with you on this - it wasn't right, and it seems an easy retort to get out of addressing the issue.

Tbf to Fearless one of the posters, I think he did apologise, or retract his statement after he called you it.
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I did apologise. That doesn't mean there isn't a problem......

The sorry truth is that the virus of anti-Semitism has infected the British Muslim community by Mehdi Hasan

If tomorrow, God forbid, I were to cause the death of an innocent man with my car, minutes after sending a series of texts on my mobile phone, I’m guessing I’d spend the rest of my life riddled with guilt. What I wouldn’t do is go on television and lay the blame for my subsequent 12-week imprisonment at the door of . . . wait for it . . . the Jews. Yet that’s what the Labour peer Nazir Ahmed did in April 2012 – less than five years after causing a car crash on the M1 in which Martin Gombar, aged 28, was killed.

“My case became more critical because I went to Gaza to support Palestinians,” he says to his Pakistani interviewer in Urdu, in a video recording obtained by the Times. “My Jewish friends who own newspapers and TV channels opposed this.” The judge who put him behind bars, Lord Ahmed claims, was appointed to the high court after helping a “Jewish colleague” of Tony Blair’s during “an important case”.

To claim that your jail sentence for dangerous driving is the result of a Jewish plot is bigoted and stupid. The peer has since been suspended from the Labour Party and forced to stand down as a trustee of the Joseph Interfaith Foundation. I’m not sure how many “Jewish friends” he has left – if, that is, he had any to begin with.

Full disclosure: I know Lord Ahmed and have defended him in the past. In 2007, he flew out to Sudan to help free the schoolteacher Gillian Gibbons from the clutches of the odious Islamist regime in Khartoum. In 2009, an Appeal Court judge noted how the peer had “risked his life trying to flag down other vehicles to stop them colliding with . . . his car”. He is not a latter-day Goebbels. But herein lies the problem. There are thousands of Lord Ahmeds out there: mild-mannered and well-integrated British Muslims who nevertheless harbour deeply anti-Semitic views.

It pains me to have to admit this but anti-Semitism isn’t just tolerated in some sections of the British Muslim community; it’s routine and commonplace. Any Muslims reading this article – if they are honest with themselves – will know instantly what I am referring to. It’s our dirty little secret. You could call it the banality of Muslim anti-Semitism.

I can’t keep count of the number of Muslims I have come across – from close friends and relatives to perfect strangers – for whom weird and wacky anti-Semitic conspiracy theories are the default explanation for a range of national and international events. Who killed Diana and Dodi? The Mossad, say many Muslims. They didn’t want the British heir to the throne having an Arab stepfather. What about 9/11? Definitely those damn Yehudis. I mean, why else were 4,000 Jews in New York told to stay home from work on the morning of 11 September 2001? How about the financial crisis? Er, Jewish bankers. Obviously. Oh, and the Holocaust? Don’t be silly. Never happened.

Growing up, I always assumed that this obsession with “the Jews” was a hallmark of the “first-generation” immigrants from the subcontinent. In recent years, I’ve been depressed to discover that there are plenty of “second-generation” Muslim youths, born and bred in multiracial Britain, who have drunk the anti-Semitic Kool-Aid. I’m often attacked by them for working in the “Jewish owned media”.

The truth is that the virus of anti-Semitism has infected members of the British Muslim community, both young and old. No, the ongoing Israel-Palestine conflict hasn’t helped matters. But this goes beyond the Middle East. How else to explain why British Pakistanis are so often the most ardent advocates of anti-Semitic conspiracies, even though there are so few Jews living in Pakistan?

It is sheer hypocrisy for Muslims to complain of Islamophobia in every nook and cranny of British public life, to denounce the newspapers for running Muslim-baiting headlines, and yet ignore the rampant anti-Semitism in our own backyard. We cannot credibly fight Islamophobia while making excuses for Judaeophobia.

To be honest, I’ve always been reluctant to write a column such as this. To accuse my fellow Muslims of being soft on the scourge of anti-Semitism isn’t easy; I feel as if I am “dobbing in” the community, telling tales to the non-Muslim teacher. Nor do I particularly want to assist the English Defence League in its relentless campaign to demonise all Muslims, everywhere, as extremists and bigots.

We aren’t. And we’re not all anti-Semites. But, as a community, we do have a “Jewish problem”. There is no point pretending otherwise. That Bradford’s Council for Mosques has been campaigning to save the city’s last remaining synagogue from closure doesn’t change the fact that thousands of British Muslims will have been nodding in agreement as they read Lord Ahmed’s comments about Jewish power and influence – or will have assumed that the Times scoop is evidence in its own right of a “Zionist plot” against the peer. Oh, and I’m well aware that this column will also be held up by some of my fellow Muslims as “proof” that “Mehdi Hasan has sold out to the Jews”.

I only hope and pray that Lord Ahmed’s comments will act as a wake-up call to Britain’s moderate Muslim majority. The time has come for us to own up to a rather shameful fact: Muslims are not only the victims of racial and religious prejudice but purveyors of it, too.

In 2011 Baroness Warsi, the then Conservative Party chairman, said that Islamophobia has “passed the dinner-table test” in polite British society. I agree with her, but what she omitted to mention, and what we Muslims must now admit, is that anti-Semitism passed the dinner-table test in polite British Muslim society long ago.

Mehdi Hasan is a contributing writer for the New Statesman and the political director of the Huffington Post UK, where this column is crossposted
 
Fearless said:
One things for sure, had Israel been a home set for the Mormons or Jedi's, it just wouldn't get the coverage, no matter how many died. That is the point here.
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I don't want to get back into the same debate we had a few months ago, there's a reason it fizzled out.

The statement quoted though simply isn't true. Israel doesn't get criticised because it's a Jewish nation, it gets criticised because it's perpetrating serious human rights abuses. Like it or not, a rich, democratic nation which receives a huge amount of political, economic and military support from western governments will always be under a certain amount of scrutiny when it does bad things. You say it gets disproportionate coverage, but Israel largely gets away with its policy towards the Palestinian territories, bar the odd boycott. The reason for that isn't that what Israel is doing isn't seen as being bad, it's because the US sees Israel as a strategic partner in the region and consistently blocks it from being sanctioned by the UN.

I have absolutely no doubt that some of the criticism of Israel is undoubtedly sparked by anti-Jewish sentiment, but it'd be a tiny minority. Claiming that all the people who criticise Israel do so because of anti-Semitism is an effective way to shut down argument but it's lazy and offensive.
 
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@Fearless - I'm not saying antisemitism doesn't exist, as it obviously does. But in the context of these forums, speaking out against the Zionist gov't doesn't make a person antisemitic, just as speaking out against IS doesn't make you Islamophobic. Accusing all Jewish people of what the Zionists do, and accusing all Muslims of what IS does is antisemitic and Islamophobic, respectively.
 
jeff_goldblum said:
I don't want to get back into the same debate we had a few months ago, there's a reason it fizzled out.

The statement quoted though simply isn't true. Israel doesn't get criticised because it's a Jewish nation, it gets criticised because it's perpetrating serious human rights abuses. Like it or not, a rich, democratic nation which receives a huge amount of political, economic and military support from western governments will always be under a certain amount of scrutiny when it does bad things. You say it gets disproportionate coverage, but Israel largely gets away with its policy towards the Palestinian territories, bar the odd boycott. The reason for that isn't that what Israel is doing isn't seen as being bad, it's because the US sees Israel as a strategic partner in the region and consistently blocks it from being sanctioned by the UN.

I have absolutely no doubt that some of the criticism of Israel is undoubtedly sparked by anti-Jewish sentiment, but it'd be a tiny minority. Claiming that all the people who criticise Israel do so because of anti-Semitism is an effective way to shut down argument but it's lazy and offensive.
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So let me get this right. Your saying that because Israel is a rich democratic nation it has to operate under a different set of rules than say North Korea? And that gives the UN permission to pass more resolutions against Israel than it has against Syria, Yemen, Sudan, China, Burmah, Iran etc etc..?.
What in your opinion makes those poor citizens less deserving of their governments being hammered by the UN?

This is loltastic hypocrisy and an inverted galaxy.

 
Uzz said:
@Fearless - I'm not saying antisemitism doesn't exist, as it obviously does. But in the context of these forums, speaking out against the Zionist gov't doesn't make a person antisemitic, just as speaking out against IS doesn't make you Islamophobic. Accusing all Jewish people of what the Zionists do, and accusing all Muslims of what IS does is antisemitic and Islamophobic, respectively.
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That article by Mehdi Hasan highlights anti-semitism within the Muslim community.

You're a Muslim, so I'm asking you honestly on how your community (not you specifically) view the Jews.

It's no secret that we ain't that popular in there Koran, and given our shared history/destiny in the region I'd really appreciate a genuine answer.
 
Fearless said:
That article by Mehdi Hasan highlights anti-semitism within the Muslim community.

You're a Muslim, so I'm asking you honestly on how your community (not you specifically) view the Jews.

It's no secret that we ain't that popular in there Koran, and given our shared history/destiny in the region I'd really appreciate a genuine answer.
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Done.
 
Israeli police storm Al-Aqsa Mosque for a third day
Clashes erupt after Israeli police raid mosque's courtyards to support tours for Jewish activists.

15 Sep 2015 16:17 GMT | War & Conflict, Israel, Jerusalem, Middle East, Al-Aqsa mosque
Palestinians and Israeli forces have clashed at Jerusalem's Al-Aqsa Mosque for a third straight day, as Israeli forces were seen on the roof of the holy site.

Suleiman Ahmad, the president of Jerusalem's Affairs Department, who was at the scene, told Al Jazeera that at least 36 Palestinians were injured in the clashes early on Tuesday.

"They have placed snipers on the rooftops and are using rubber bullets," Ahmad said.

The site of the mosque is revered as holy by Jews and Muslims and is a frequent flashpoint of violence.

Palestinians inside Al-Aqsa threw stones and fireworks at the Israeli forces and set up barricades to prevent them from closing the entrance to the mosque.

The police forces eventually closed the doors to the mosque with the Palestinians still inside.

Al-Aqsa courtyard tours

Israeli police were trying to allow Jewish activists to tour the courtyards of the mosque, which in the past has stirred angry reactions from Palestinians who fear Israel may change the rules for visiting the Al-Aqsa compound.

Yousef Mukhaimar, the head of the Al-Aqsa worshipper movement, Mourabitoun, told Al Jazeera that Muslim Palestinians were "prohibited from entering the mosque to pray, while Israeli settlers are allowed to enter the mosque and roam around freely under police protection".

"Wide areas of the mosque carpeting have been burned as a result of the Israeli police firing bombs, bullets and tear gas canisters inside the mosque compound," Mukhaimar said.
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Video: Palestinian woman shot, left to bleed by Israeli soldiers
Ali Abunimah Rights and Accountability 22 September 2015

This video posted by the news agency PalMedia shows a young Palestinian woman left to bleed on a sidewalk in the occupied West Bank city of Hebron after she was shot by Israeli soldiers on Tuesday morning.

By evening, Palestinian media reported that the woman, 18-year-old Hadil Salah Hashlamoun, had died of her injuries.

Instead of being given immediate medical treatment, the video shows her being pulled roughly out of the frame of the camera, her scarf coming off as her head drags on the ground.

Israeli settlers and soldiers can be seen standing around, and in some cases smiling and laughing in the background.

Wattan TV reported that the young woman was left to bleed for more than 30 minutes.

In a separate incident, a Palestinian man was also killed overnight by Israeli forces near Hebron.

Local sources told Ma’an News Agency that Diyaa Abdulhalim Talahmah, 21, was killed by the army during a raid in the village of Khursa.

Israel has claimed he tried to throw a Molotov cocktail at its soldiers.

These shootings come just days after Israel loosened even further its already lax permission to its forces to use live ammunition against Palestinians.

Checkpoint shooting
Wattan TV named the young woman in the video as 18-year-old Hadil Hashlamoun.

The Israeli army claimed that she was shot after she tried to stab a soldier, the Tel Aviv newspaper Haaretzreported. But photos and eyewitnesses contradic this account.

An Israeli army spokesperson said that the incident had occurred around 8am at the so-called Container Checkpoint near Shuhada Street, Ma’an News Agency reported.

The spokesperson said the woman approached the checkpoint in order to carry out the attack and Israeli forces responded with gunfire.

The army said that the young woman was treated on site by Israeli medics and then taken to hospital.

Her father, Saleh Hashlamoun, told Wattan TV earlier on Tuesday that his daughter had been hit in the abdomen several times and was in serious but stable condition at Shaare Tzedek hospital in Jerusalem.

By evening she had died.

No weapon
The Hebron-based group Youth Against Settlements published several photos on its Facebook page that it says show the young woman immediately before and after the shooting.

2015-9-22_hadil_hashlamoun_1.jpg

An image published by Youth Against Settlements shows Hadil Hashlamoun surrounded by Israeli soldiers at a checkpoint in Hebron.

The photos show a person dressed in a long black dress and headcovering, carrying a briefcase. In none of the images is she holding any sort of weapon.

Several Israeli personnel are pointing weapons at her.

Youth Against Settlements suggests the photo sequence shows that Hashlamoun tried to leave the checkpoint before she was shot.

2015-9-22_hadil_hashlamoun_2.jpg

An image published by Youth Against Settlements shows Hadil Hashlamoun lying injured.

Other photos show the person lying on the ground with at least one bullet wound, the same briefcase visible near her.

Additional photos show the scene of the shooting, including blood on the ground and bullet holes in a metal door, after the victim was removed.

Eyewitnesses
One eyewitness, a European activist, told The New York Times that Hashlamoun had simply opened her purse to allow it to be inspected, at the request of a soldier.

“When she was opening at her bag, he began shouting: ‘Stop! Stop! Stop! Don’t move! Don’t move!’” the activist said. “She was trying to show him what was inside her bag, but the soldier shot her once, and then shot her again.” Several more soldiers raced over and also fired at her.

A second witness, 34-year-old Fawaz Abu Aisheh, told the Times that Hashlamoun appeared “frozen” and in shock. Abu Aisheh said he had opened a gate inside the checkpoint so that Hashlamoun could back away from the soldiers. She tried to do so.

“Even if she had a knife, she would have to leap over a barrier about a meter high to reach a soldier,” Abu Aisheh added. “There were six or seven soldiers with heavy weapons. There was no need for that assassination.”

The Times said it had seen photos corroborating these accounts.

Unverified claims
While Palestinians undoubtedly have an internationally recognized right to resist Israeli military occupation, the unverified claims of the army should never be taken for granted as accurate.

Similar claims have habitually turned out to be false when independent evidence has been available.

In July, a video revealed that 17-year-old Muhammad Ali al-Kasbeh was shot dead by Israeli colonel Yisrael Shomer as he ran away, near Ramallah.

This falsified the army’s version that the Israeli had been in imminent danger when he fired.

Israeli human rights group B’Tselem warned that the high-level backing Shomer received would only reinforce an “unlawful message” to occupation soldiers that they are “allowed and even encouraged to shoot to kill a Palestinian stonethrower, even if he’s running away and does not constitute a danger.”

In December 2012, Israeli Border Police officer Nofar Mizrahi claimed she shot dead 17-year-old Muhammad al-Salaymeh at a checkpoint in Hebron as the teen held a pistol to another soldier’s temple.

A video proved Mizrahi’s account to be a lie.

In May 2014, video caught Israeli soldiers shooting dead two teens in the West Bank village of Beitunia at long distance and in cold blood.

In July 2014, Israeli police spread false rumors that 16-year-old Muhammad Abu Khudair had been murdered by his family in an “honor killing” for being gay.

Police later arrested several Israeli Jews in the abduction and burning to death of the youth, which occurred at a time of intense anti-Palestinian incitement in Jerusalem.

The systematic impunity Israel affords its occupation personnel and settlers means that Israeli claims are almost never seriously investigated and Palestinians have no recourse for protection or justice.
 
Lawyer of the Palestinian Prisoners’ Commission, Tareq Barghouth on Sunday said that the health of child Issa Al-Mu’ti has been deteriorating as he is staying in the Hadassa Ain Karem hospital, after he was shot in the foot by Israeli Occupation Forces (IOF) in Bethlehem on 18 September, under the pretext of stone hurling during clashes.

After visiting the 13 year old child, the commission’s lawyer said that his health situation is deteriorating.

Issa earlier has had an artery cultivation surgery in his right foot which failedand so medics said that they might need to amputate it because the bones have been penetrated and smashed by the bullet.

Barghouth said that Issa is staying in the hospital under heavy security, his hand cuffed to the hospital bed.

He added that the commission is seeking to get a release order for Issa since he’s too young, and also to rescue his deteriorating health condition.

Barghouth said that Israeli occupation holds responsibility for Al-Mu’ti’s condition, as murder and opening fire on children is an authorized Israeli policy against children hurling stones.

Legally speaking, Barghouth said that the Israeli occupation government’s authorization for immediately opening fire on children throwing stones is considered a willful field execution.
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Ridiculous.
 
The Heads of Churches in Jerusalem on Monday have released statement expressing serious concerns regarding recent violent development on Haram al Sharif.

“We condemn all threats of change to historical (Status Quo) situation in the Al-Aqsa Mosque (Haram Asharif) and its courtyard, all buildings, and in the city of Jerusalem. Any threat to its continuity and integrity could easily lead to unpredictable consequences which would be most unwelcome in the present delicate political climate.” statement said.

Statement continued by saying that Muslims have the right to free access and worship to the Al Aqsa Mosque.

“There is a great importance of the custody of the Hashemite kingdom on Al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy places in Jerusalem and the Holy Land. We believe that all Holy Sites need constant watchful protection so that reasonable access to them can be maintained according to the prevailing Status Quo of all three Abrahamic faiths.”

The Heads of Churches finally renewed calls that the existing agreed Status Quo governing these sites needs to be fully respected for the sake of the whole community.
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Dozens of Palestinian youths on Tuesday have held a demonstration in protest of the continuous Israeli violations of Al-Aqsa mosque.

The non-violent demonstration headed to the 300 Israeli checkpoint north of Bethlehem, and was immediately repressed by teargas grenades.


IOF opened teargas grenades on the protesters near checkpoint 300, northern Bethlehem
The protest included dozens of University students, who assembled during the hours of general strike from 11 – 2 PM in all Palestinian universities and associations, demanding the halt of the attacks on Al-Aqsa and Israeli violations of Palestinian rights.

This morning, clashes sparked in Al-Aqsa yards between youngsters, guardians (Murabiteen) and Israeli soldiers and police forces, who opened fire, teargas and sound grenades on them, after extremist groups of about 60 settlers on Tuesday morning renewed storming into Al-Aqsa mosque, heavily guarded by Israeli forces.

Eyewitnesses said that Israeli soldiers were chasing women who managed to enter Al-Aqsa, and blacklisted others, preventing them from entering it.
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Defense for Children International, Palestine –

Since June 1967, when Israel occupied East Jerusalem, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip following six days of armed conflict, children living in the Occupied Palestinian Territory have inhabited an environment characterised by violence and instability. Over 1,800 children have been killed as a result of occupation policies and practices since the year 2000.

Over 1,800 children killed across the Occupied Palestinian Territory since 2000.

Violence against children takes many forms, encompassing physical violence such as injury from gunfire or crowd control weaponry, beatings and torture, or individual attacks. It includes psychological violence that arises from fear of arrest or physical harm, as well as the psychological interrogation techniques employed by the Israeli army. It includes discrimination and neglect perpetrated by the Israeli and Palestinian authorities.

The ongoing Israeli occupation of East Jerusalem and the West Bank creates an environment in which children are routinely exposed to violence. Occupation policies and practices, such as the indiscriminate use of crowd control weapons, result in regular injury to children.

In Gaza, violence against children is perpetuated through the ongoing blockade of the Gaza Strip, which has been in place since 2007, and regular Israeli military operations that result in high numbers of child fatalities.

Four children across the Occupied Palestinian Territory shot with live ammunition in the first two months of 2014 alone.

Violence against children also occurs within Palestinian society, either as a result of policies pursued by the Palestinian Authority, or actions by Palestinian armed groups. Between 2006 and 2012, DCI-Palestine documented 26 cases of children being recruited by armed Palestinian groups.

26 cases of armed Palestinian groups recruiting children between 2006 and 2012.

DCI-Palestine’s interventions help improve the lives of thousands of children living in the Occupied Palestinian Territory. Click on the links below to find out more about the different forms of violence perpetrated against children, and what we’re doing to bring this violence to an end.
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Israelis killed in Jerusalem
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The two Israelis were killed in an alleyway of Jerusalem's Old City

Two Israelis have been killed and three injured in separate attacks in Jerusalem by Palestinians who were then shot dead by police.

Police have now banned Palestinians from East Jerusalem from entering the Old City for two days.

The latest violence comes two days after an Israeli couple were shot dead in the West Bank.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is to hold emergency talks with security officials on Sunday.

The restrictions will stop Palestinians from entering the Old City unless they live there. But Israelis, local business owners and schoolchildren will be allowed in.

The first stabbing incident took place on Saturday evening, just after the end of the Jewish Sabbath, close to Lion's Gate in the Old City.

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The two Israelis killed were Rabbi Nehemia Lavi, 41, a resident of the Old City, as well as 21-year-old Aharon Bennett who lives in a West Bank settlement.

The Palestinian man - named as Mohammad Halabi, a 19-year-old law student from a village near Ramallah in the West Bank - attacked Mr Bennett, his wife, their two-year-old son and baby daughter who were on their way to pray at the Western Wall in Jerusalem's Old City, the Israeli foreign ministry said in a statement.

Rabbi Lavi, a reserve officer in the Israel Defense Forces (IDF), was killed as he tried to defend the family, the ministry said.

Mr Bennett's wife was seriously wounded, while their son suffered minor injuries and their baby was unharmed, it added.
 
Uzz said:
Video: Palestinian woman shot, left to bleed by Israeli soldiers
Ali Abunimah Rights and Accountability 22 September 2015

This video posted by the news agency PalMedia shows a young Palestinian woman left to bleed on a sidewalk in the occupied West Bank city of Hebron after she was shot by Israeli soldiers on Tuesday morning.

By evening, Palestinian media reported that the woman, 18-year-old Hadil Salah Hashlamoun, had died of her injuries.

Instead of being given immediate medical treatment, the video shows her being pulled roughly out of the frame of the camera, her scarf coming off as her head drags on the ground.

Israeli settlers and soldiers can be seen standing around, and in some cases smiling and laughing in the background.

Wattan TV reported that the young woman was left to bleed for more than 30 minutes.

In a separate incident, a Palestinian man was also killed overnight by Israeli forces near Hebron.

Local sources told Ma’an News Agency that Diyaa Abdulhalim Talahmah, 21, was killed by the army during a raid in the village of Khursa.

Israel has claimed he tried to throw a Molotov cocktail at its soldiers.

These shootings come just days after Israel loosened even further its already lax permission to its forces to use live ammunition against Palestinians.

Checkpoint shooting
Wattan TV named the young woman in the video as 18-year-old Hadil Hashlamoun.

The Israeli army claimed that she was shot after she tried to stab a soldier, the Tel Aviv newspaper Haaretzreported. But photos and eyewitnesses contradic this account.

An Israeli army spokesperson said that the incident had occurred around 8am at the so-called Container Checkpoint near Shuhada Street, Ma’an News Agency reported.

The spokesperson said the woman approached the checkpoint in order to carry out the attack and Israeli forces responded with gunfire.

The army said that the young woman was treated on site by Israeli medics and then taken to hospital.

Her father, Saleh Hashlamoun, told Wattan TV earlier on Tuesday that his daughter had been hit in the abdomen several times and was in serious but stable condition at Shaare Tzedek hospital in Jerusalem.

By evening she had died.

No weapon
The Hebron-based group Youth Against Settlements published several photos on its Facebook page that it says show the young woman immediately before and after the shooting.

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An image published by Youth Against Settlements shows Hadil Hashlamoun surrounded by Israeli soldiers at a checkpoint in Hebron.

The photos show a person dressed in a long black dress and headcovering, carrying a briefcase. In none of the images is she holding any sort of weapon.

Several Israeli personnel are pointing weapons at her.

Youth Against Settlements suggests the photo sequence shows that Hashlamoun tried to leave the checkpoint before she was shot.

2015-9-22_hadil_hashlamoun_2.jpg

An image published by Youth Against Settlements shows Hadil Hashlamoun lying injured.

Other photos show the person lying on the ground with at least one bullet wound, the same briefcase visible near her.

Additional photos show the scene of the shooting, including blood on the ground and bullet holes in a metal door, after the victim was removed.

Eyewitnesses
One eyewitness, a European activist, told The New York Times that Hashlamoun had simply opened her purse to allow it to be inspected, at the request of a soldier.

“When she was opening at her bag, he began shouting: ‘Stop! Stop! Stop! Don’t move! Don’t move!’” the activist said. “She was trying to show him what was inside her bag, but the soldier shot her once, and then shot her again.” Several more soldiers raced over and also fired at her.

A second witness, 34-year-old Fawaz Abu Aisheh, told the Times that Hashlamoun appeared “frozen” and in shock. Abu Aisheh said he had opened a gate inside the checkpoint so that Hashlamoun could back away from the soldiers. She tried to do so.

“Even if she had a knife, she would have to leap over a barrier about a meter high to reach a soldier,” Abu Aisheh added. “There were six or seven soldiers with heavy weapons. There was no need for that assassination.”

The Times said it had seen photos corroborating these accounts.

Unverified claims
While Palestinians undoubtedly have an internationally recognized right to resist Israeli military occupation, the unverified claims of the army should never be taken for granted as accurate.

Similar claims have habitually turned out to be false when independent evidence has been available.

In July, a video revealed that 17-year-old Muhammad Ali al-Kasbeh was shot dead by Israeli colonel Yisrael Shomer as he ran away, near Ramallah.

This falsified the army’s version that the Israeli had been in imminent danger when he fired.

Israeli human rights group B’Tselem warned that the high-level backing Shomer received would only reinforce an “unlawful message” to occupation soldiers that they are “allowed and even encouraged to shoot to kill a Palestinian stonethrower, even if he’s running away and does not constitute a danger.”

In December 2012, Israeli Border Police officer Nofar Mizrahi claimed she shot dead 17-year-old Muhammad al-Salaymeh at a checkpoint in Hebron as the teen held a pistol to another soldier’s temple.

A video proved Mizrahi’s account to be a lie.

In May 2014, video caught Israeli soldiers shooting dead two teens in the West Bank village of Beitunia at long distance and in cold blood.

In July 2014, Israeli police spread false rumors that 16-year-old Muhammad Abu Khudair had been murdered by his family in an “honor killing” for being gay.

Police later arrested several Israeli Jews in the abduction and burning to death of the youth, which occurred at a time of intense anti-Palestinian incitement in Jerusalem.

The systematic impunity Israel affords its occupation personnel and settlers means that Israeli claims are almost never seriously investigated and Palestinians have no recourse for protection or justice.
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to tell you the true if I was a young soldier and I had to stop someone all covered with a briefcase I would shoot first and then ask questions later ...
 
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Fadi Alloun (21) killed by Israeli police under the pretext of initiating a settler stab operative, East Jerusalem.
Israeli Police execute Palestinian youth, settlers attack his dead body
1 day ago

PNN/ Jerusalem/
A Palestinian youth was executed by Israeli Occupation police on Sunday dawn, after an Israeli settler shouted that he was trying to initiate a stab operative, in Jerusalem.

The Palestinian was identified as Fadi Alloun (21), from Al-Issawiya town, East Jerusalem.

A video published following the execution of Alloun, shows that IOF hit the youngster with seven bullets, leading to his immediate death. Settlers then gathered around him and started kicking him with their legs.

Dozens of private police forces units broke into the home of the youngster hours after his execution, raided it and kidnapped his father, brother and uncle, as showed in the following video:

Tens of settlers overnight broke into East Jerusalem towns and neighborhoods, attacking people and property, under the protection of Israeli Occupation Forces.
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Stay classy settlers - kicking a dead body.
 
Uzz said:
Are you trying to equate the situation of Palestinians in Palestine to Kurds in Turkey?
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Yes, I am. The Kurds have been fighting for an independent state for years together. They are and have been persecuted in Turkey and Iraq for years. Saddam used chemical weapons on them. They are treated as second class citizens in Turkey and police brutalities against Kurds in Turkey is common. Turkey is their homeland as much as it is the Turks'. It's high time for a Kurdish state carved out of parts of Turkey, Iraq and Syria. Sadly, Turkey will see to it that it never happens. The stateless Kurds don't stand a chance against the might of the Turkish army and air force.
 
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Nikhil said:
Yes, I am. The Kurds have been fighting for an independent state for years together. They are and have been persecuted in Turkey and Iraq for years. Saddam used chemical weapons on them. They are treated as second class citizens in Turkey and police brutalities against Kurds in Turkey is common. Turkey is their homeland as much as it is the Kurds'. It's high time for a Kurdish state carved out of parts of Turkey, Iraq and Syria. Sadly, Turkey will see to it that it never happens. The stateless Kurds don't stand a chance against the might of the Turkish army and air force.
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While I agree that they deserve more autonomy and recognition, the situation for Kurds is in no way equitable to the state of Palestinians, and it's idiotic to think so. I've been to Kurd heavy regions in Anatolia, and they are in no way, shape or form, given the daily harassment and abuse seen in Palestine. They are not denied civil liberties, and although there are difficulties, this rarely spills over into the types of things we see in Palestine on a habitual basis. But yes - I agree with your overall point.
 
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