I've lost track of who is avenging what now...but I'm sure killing Israeli and Palestinians toddlers is the right path for all concerned.
Israeli - Palestinian Conflict
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
As awful as it may sound it is not "only" a toddler here. An entire family was torched, and there other family members in serious condition.
Madness.
Madness.
Sickening. Really sickening.
No excuses whatsoever. An utterly despicable act that shames humanity. I hope the bastards who did this, along with the other nutter who stabbed gays, receive the full punishment they deserve.
Why the delay?
And violence begets violence, I see little use in rounding these extremists up and sending them to one of the seven heavens. As with ISIS you deal with the elements acting as their lifeline. Presumably these ultra-violent settlers have financial and political backers within the Knesset or the higher echelons of Israeli society?
Only that they won't. Check out the treatment of those burnt that Jerusalem boy alive last summer. Anything short of a systematic treatment of that fundamentalist element would be lip service only. If Arabs can be detained for months without trial, so should Jewish jihadists.
Completely agree.
I sincerely hope not. Very much secondary to this outrageous crime, they have shamed Israel and Judaism and undermined any progress regarding peace.
Politics, and politics only. Unfortunately, an impasse in the attempts to reach a viable political solution here means that a weak right wing government relies on religious elements. I reckon that a true peace initiative would have seen a coalition of the sane among Jews here. Unfortunately, this is unlikely at the moment.
I don't think these nutters are backed financially. We are talking about a bunch of weirdos (dozens to a few hundreds imo) who flourish in the ort of ex-territory that the WB is. Having said that, uprooting that cancerous element from our society would require harsh measures that will be blocked in the Knesset by people who would condemn atrocities like today's without hesitation. It's not because they back these acts politically, but they would worry that a true treatment would hamper their own agenda one way or another.
Today's crimes come days after house demolition in one settlement, and the evacuation of another that was resettled after the 2005 disengagement. The declarations from some right-wing elements were outrageous. The common theme here is the clash of right-wing elements in our society with the rule of law.
Admittedly I'm not too clued up on current proceedings within Israeli politics, but what about the likes of Bennett, Shaked and The Jewish Home Party in general? From what I understand they are fierce proponents of mass-settlement programs and the fact they have two senior ministers in the cabinet might give these extremists some breathing space - or am I over simplifying it?
HR can probably answer that far better than me. On my part, there can be no let up, no delay, on punishing these rogue murderers.
Stick a wall round the settlements where any suspects (or their associates, friends, and families) are from and shoot anyone that tries to get out. That should solve the problem.
Ya'alon: We will not allow Jewish terrorists to harm Palestinians
jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Yaalon-We-will-not-allow-Jewish-terrorists-to-harm-Palestinians-410737Arab-Israeli Conflict
By JPOST.COM STAFF,
07/31/2015 09:32
Netanyahu: On behalf of the citizens of Israel, I would like to commiserate with the family of Ali Dawabsha; MK Herzog: incident requires national mourning.
Hebrew Grafitti found at scene of reported Price Tag attack, trranslates to 'revenge' July 31, 2015. (photo credit:ZAKARIA, RABBIS FOR HUMAN RIGHTS)
Israeli officials, including Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Defense Minister Moshe Ya'alon, expressed their shock and outright condemnation of the terror attack early Friday morning in which a Palestinian toddler was killed and three members of his family injured in a molotov cocktail attack on their home by suspected far-right extremists, in the village of Duma, in the northern area of the West Bank, outside the city of Nablus.
Despite the political differences between the left and the right, the coalition and the opposition, the response remains the same: shock, horror and calls for justice.
Netanyahu forcefully condemned the attack in Duma Friday morning, saying he was shocked by the “horrible” act, and calling it a “terror attack in every way.”
“Israel acts with a strong hand against terror, and it does not matter who are its perpetrators,” he said in a statement.
The prime minister said he directed the security services to use all means at their disposal to apprehend those responsible and bring them to justice.
“The government of Israel is united in its opposition to terrible and heinous acts such as these,” he said, adding that – speaking for the entire country – he wanted to send his condolences to the family of the baby killed in the attack and wishes for a speedy recovery to those injured.
Defense Minister Moshe Ya'alon referred to the incident and the death of baby Ali Dawabsha as "a most severe terrorist act that we cannot tolerate, and we condemn in every way."
He noted that all security forces including the Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency), the IDF and police are carrying out a "supreme effort" to find those responsible, saying "we will pursue them until we get our hands on them."
"We will not allow Jewish terrorists to harm the lives of Palestinians across Judea and Samaria. We will fight them in every way, with every tool at our disposal."
He sent out his condolences to the Dawabsha family and requested restraint from the public "to allowing security forces to carry out their mission of capturing the murderers."
Opposition leader MK Herzog echoed a similar sentiment, calling the attack "a disaster--the worst kind of terrorism."
On his Facebook page, he added that this incident "requires national mourning." He also advised security officials to "increase vigilance and to investigate the incident with all the power available to them, including arrests and investigations to bring those responsible to justice as quickly as possible."
Bayit Yehudi leader, MK Naftali Bennett's response referred to the incident as "shocking" and flat out murder, "not a hate crime, and not a price tag attack."
He, too, called on security services to "act with determination to reach the murderers to be punished to the full extent of the law."
IDF Spokesman Brig.-Gen. Moti Almoz condemned the incident as an "act of terrorism in every way," saying he does "not remember an incident this severe in recent years."
The IDF has deployed four battalions to the West Bank in an attempt to maintain stability in the region and respond to potential wide-spread disturbances. Two infantry brigades, Nahal and Givati, have stopped training activities and returned to their bases, where they are on standby, Almoz added.
These steps reflect the IDF's concerns over the potential of the attack to undermine security stability, he said.
"We have to prepare for incidents, and for what may occur on the Temple Mount. Tensions in the past two weeks in Judea and Samaria all drain into this most severe incident. We are coordinating with PA security forces to calm the area," Almoz said.
What does that achieve?
I dunno but it's tried and trusted.
You demolish our houses we burn a Palestinian baby. 
fecking hell.
fecking hell.
You demolish our houses we burn a Palestinian baby.
fecking hell.
I'm trying to put myself in the shoes of a complete religious lunatic to try to understand the logic of these 'price-tag' attacks, and still can't get anywhere near. When empathy is impossible, you know that evil actually exists, and this is it.
Worst part is I bet perpetrators wont be fond.
I understand the cynicism, but would wait with these measures until they set bombs to buses and cafes, or launch thousands of rockets.
Still, I would love to see the concerted effort of grazing illegal construction in the WB, with drones patrolling the air 24/7 to prevent those mourderous scum get on with their "price tag" heroics.
They have done all that and more, the bombs and rockets say "IDF" on the side and are launched from planes and helicopters.
In which case we are already surrounded by a barrier and we get shot if we cross it.
It's not been working very effectively if that is the case.
Family of burned infant to turn home into land-mark that witnessed Israeli terrorism
Settlers burn alive 18-month-old, his family severely wounded
Thousands of Palestinians today participated in the funeral of the 18-month-old infant, Ali Saad Dawabshe, who was burned to death today in an arson by Israeli settlers.
The funeral was headed by the Palestinian prime minister, Dr. Rami Hamdallah, head of Palestinian intelligence, major-general Majed Faraj, and other Palestinian leaders as well.
In his speech at the funeral, Hamdalla vowed to take this crime to the international criminal court in the Hague, to hold Israel accountablefor its deeds.
Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas pledged to repair the burnt house.
However, on behalf of the family, Samir Dawabshe said that the people of Duma and Madama villages suggested they contribute to build a new house, and to keep the old burned houseand build a wall around it.
“The family wishes to keep the house as it is after the arson, to be a land-mark and witness to the Israeli crimes, racism and savageness. It should be a symbol for anyone who would like to know the truth about this occupation,” Dawabshe said.
“Little Ali was sleeping in peace last night, but didn’t know that the criminals were lurking against him.” he added.
“I visited Ali today at the hospital, but he was not longer the smiling child I used to see. Instead, I could imagine him screaming for help from his brother sleeping next to him, who didn’t have enough time to wake up and save him.”
The infant’s mother still lies in the hospital, but still doesn’t know about her toddler’s death yet.
Dawabshe assured that the Palestinian people and leaders must hold Israel accountable for its crimes and killing of the innocent, collectively.
On Friday morning , extremist Israeli settlers have torched two homes in Duma village near Nablus, which lead to the burning of an 18-month-old baby, Ali Dawabsheh, and severely wounding his family.
According to medics in Nablus’ Rafidia hospital, the infant’s mother, father and 4-year-old sibling suffered third degree burns on up to 75% of their bodies.
Empty words from the Israeli Government, next month they will be approving more settlements
There is a lot of lip service being paid after this incident.
Yeah, Netanyahu is shocked but in the same time is backing the settlers and building more and more settlements.
A new, extremely dangerous kind of Jewish fanaticism
Analysis: The Shin Bet has been dealing in the past year with a radical group of young messianic Jews aiming to bring down the Zionist state and replace it with a holy kingdom. In order to fulfill their goal, they are willing to sacrifice their lives and have no problem killing.
Alex Fishman
What happened in the village of Duma wasn't just another "price tag" operation of the ugly kind with which we have become familiar, which aims to take revenge against Arabs or deter the authorities from evacuating communities.
It turns out that in the past year, the Shin Bet – especially its Jewish Division – has been dealing with a new kind of cancer, violent and repulsive, which has surpassed its predecessor. We are talking about a group of young Jews which has adopted an ideological, anti-Zionist, fanatic and anarchistic common denominator, seeking to destroy the "state of the Zionists" (that's their terminology) and establish a holy kingdom instead of it. The Shin Bet sees them as a terror organization for all intents and purposes, which is violently undermining the foundations of the Israeli society.
The murder in Duma characterizes the group's ideological and operational perception. It wasn't an act of revenge but one aimed at igniting a conflict between the people, setting the region on fire and bringing down the Zionist regime which is "delaying salvation." In order to fulfill their goal, the group members are willing to sacrifice their lives and have no problem killing. It's a small group which carries out particularly harsh terror attacks, as part of its revolutionary outlook.
There is no rabbinical authority there. They do not accept the rabbinical authority linked to the "price tag" hooligans – like Rabbi Yitzchak Ginzburg. On the other hand, rabbis like Ginzburg disagree with their ideology.
This group is made up of dozens of young people, some of them minors. The older ones are 22 or 23 years old. They come from all parts of the country and have no unique characteristics apart from the fact that they have all left their families and educational institutions and live in the Judea and Samaria hills. They don't have a permanent settlement point. Rather, they move from place to place on a daily basis.
Their operational doctrine can be found in a document authored by Moshe Orbach of Bnei Brak, who belongs to the group that torched the Church of the Multiplication of the Loaves and Fish at Tabgha. Their ideology focuses on targeting the Israeli society's weak spots in order to create chaos and bring it down.
They have marked five potential explosive points for themselves: Igniting a conflict at the Temple Mount, banishing gentiles (by torching Arab homes), eliminating idol worship (by torching churches and mosques), religious coercion and undermining the government system. They are not talking about armed activity like the Jewish Underground and are not using firearms for now. They create provocations and don't hesitate to kill – a step up from the "price tag" activity, which focused on property.
Their first known operation was in December 2014, when they tried to torch a house in South Mount Hebron. The Shin Bet detained the perpetrators, but they were released under administrative restrictions. In February 2015, they tried to torch a church in Bethlehem, and in July they torched the church at Tabgha. Five were detained, but only two were prosecuted. Moshe Orbach was indicted.
The group was located by the Shin Bet, dozens of its members were called in for a deterrence talk, and some of them were subject to movement restrictions and ordered to spend the night at home. Some were even removed from the area. But without clear legal evidence, they were released.
This year alone, the Shin Bet has thwarted at least three terror attacks planned by this group – but only a very small number of indictments have been filed in light of restrictions on the Shin Bet's ability to question civilians.
The cell which carried out the attack at the Bethlehem church was caught, but the evidence obtained so far has made it impossible to file charges. They are working on it: Administrative orders have been issued against the suspects, but the legal proceedings are moving very slowly and there is no longer any deterrence.
On Sunday, the Shin Bet asked the cabinet to allow the implementation of quick and adamant legal proceedings. Five indictments have been filed so far in 2015, and 22 were filed in 2014, most of them for "price tag" activities. But only three suspects have been arrested for arson and sentenced to two-three years in prison. It was the first time the Shin Bet succeeded in arresting "price tag" members, and they mostly have Defense Minister Moshe Ya'alon to thank for that, following his decision to define the activity as an "unauthorized organization," which provided the Shin Bet with intensive tools. On Sunday, the Shin Bet demanded even more tools in order to eradicate this new insanity.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4686905,00.html
Analysis: The Shin Bet has been dealing in the past year with a radical group of young messianic Jews aiming to bring down the Zionist state and replace it with a holy kingdom. In order to fulfill their goal, they are willing to sacrifice their lives and have no problem killing.
Alex Fishman
What happened in the village of Duma wasn't just another "price tag" operation of the ugly kind with which we have become familiar, which aims to take revenge against Arabs or deter the authorities from evacuating communities.
It turns out that in the past year, the Shin Bet – especially its Jewish Division – has been dealing with a new kind of cancer, violent and repulsive, which has surpassed its predecessor. We are talking about a group of young Jews which has adopted an ideological, anti-Zionist, fanatic and anarchistic common denominator, seeking to destroy the "state of the Zionists" (that's their terminology) and establish a holy kingdom instead of it. The Shin Bet sees them as a terror organization for all intents and purposes, which is violently undermining the foundations of the Israeli society.
The murder in Duma characterizes the group's ideological and operational perception. It wasn't an act of revenge but one aimed at igniting a conflict between the people, setting the region on fire and bringing down the Zionist regime which is "delaying salvation." In order to fulfill their goal, the group members are willing to sacrifice their lives and have no problem killing. It's a small group which carries out particularly harsh terror attacks, as part of its revolutionary outlook.
There is no rabbinical authority there. They do not accept the rabbinical authority linked to the "price tag" hooligans – like Rabbi Yitzchak Ginzburg. On the other hand, rabbis like Ginzburg disagree with their ideology.
This group is made up of dozens of young people, some of them minors. The older ones are 22 or 23 years old. They come from all parts of the country and have no unique characteristics apart from the fact that they have all left their families and educational institutions and live in the Judea and Samaria hills. They don't have a permanent settlement point. Rather, they move from place to place on a daily basis.
Their operational doctrine can be found in a document authored by Moshe Orbach of Bnei Brak, who belongs to the group that torched the Church of the Multiplication of the Loaves and Fish at Tabgha. Their ideology focuses on targeting the Israeli society's weak spots in order to create chaos and bring it down.
They have marked five potential explosive points for themselves: Igniting a conflict at the Temple Mount, banishing gentiles (by torching Arab homes), eliminating idol worship (by torching churches and mosques), religious coercion and undermining the government system. They are not talking about armed activity like the Jewish Underground and are not using firearms for now. They create provocations and don't hesitate to kill – a step up from the "price tag" activity, which focused on property.
Their first known operation was in December 2014, when they tried to torch a house in South Mount Hebron. The Shin Bet detained the perpetrators, but they were released under administrative restrictions. In February 2015, they tried to torch a church in Bethlehem, and in July they torched the church at Tabgha. Five were detained, but only two were prosecuted. Moshe Orbach was indicted.
The group was located by the Shin Bet, dozens of its members were called in for a deterrence talk, and some of them were subject to movement restrictions and ordered to spend the night at home. Some were even removed from the area. But without clear legal evidence, they were released.
This year alone, the Shin Bet has thwarted at least three terror attacks planned by this group – but only a very small number of indictments have been filed in light of restrictions on the Shin Bet's ability to question civilians.
The cell which carried out the attack at the Bethlehem church was caught, but the evidence obtained so far has made it impossible to file charges. They are working on it: Administrative orders have been issued against the suspects, but the legal proceedings are moving very slowly and there is no longer any deterrence.
On Sunday, the Shin Bet asked the cabinet to allow the implementation of quick and adamant legal proceedings. Five indictments have been filed so far in 2015, and 22 were filed in 2014, most of them for "price tag" activities. But only three suspects have been arrested for arson and sentenced to two-three years in prison. It was the first time the Shin Bet succeeded in arresting "price tag" members, and they mostly have Defense Minister Moshe Ya'alon to thank for that, following his decision to define the activity as an "unauthorized organization," which provided the Shin Bet with intensive tools. On Sunday, the Shin Bet demanded even more tools in order to eradicate this new insanity.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4686905,00.html
One of the girls stabbed in the gay pride march died. 16 years old.
About the murdered baby's family:
Fantastic. So settlers set olive trees on fire, then occupation forces show up, beat Palestinians of course and uproot some more olive trees too...
Azzoon, setting fire, horrible piece of news. May those "number of trees" rest in peace.
Classic settlin', occupationin', and h_red denyinin'.
See, lip service
The plan of these settlers is evidently to take as much land as they can get their hands on and then in twenty years time they can proclaim any Palestinians wanting said land back to be terrorists. It's interesting to see these settlers and the reaction to their stealing of Palestinian land (no international outrage to note) because it mirrors in a micro-scale environment exactly what happened when the state of Palestine was stolen.
It's a disgrace that the Israeli government have allowed this to continue. How exactly do you expect to attain peace when members of your state are still in the process of annexing land that is not theirs?
It's a disgrace that the Israeli government have allowed this to continue. How exactly do you expect to attain peace when members of your state are still in the process of annexing land that is not theirs?
95% of Palestinian building permits are rejected in Jerusalem. I'm trying to get figures for other areas.
That wouldn't work though would it? "Occupied Ramla" is an Israeli town on the outskirts of Tel Aviv. This one is not about the "occupied territories" or "settlers", but about the right of the Jewish people for self-determination. Your Arab sources don't make a distinction.
I was commenting more generally on the situation which sees Israeli extremist settlers attempt to steal land en masse from Palestinians (quite successfully). Would you, as a moderate Israeli, condemn this practice and implore your government to bring a halt to it?
That evil Zionist plan of ridding Jerusalem of its Arab population seems to have failed miserably. Hardly any population increase in the 22 years preceding its liberation, and look what happened next...
I've read similar reports before. What exists at the moment is essentially apartheid by another name.