Its Palestine and Israel nothing will change in our life times.
Israeli - Palestinian Conflict
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
DrunkenYoda said:if you can post it as a response to you and others
firstly, thank you for the care.
secondly, I don't want to say what my thought are about this situation in the west bank, but I served there and it's not as people are thinking. the arabs in the west bank work with and for Israelis in the same place. I know you might think we're at war and killing each other all day long, but no, Arabs from the west bank are building the houses for the Israelis there !! yes, I've seen it with my own eyes, and yet i guess no one would believe me. btw where do you think Israelis go in the west bank when their car breaks out? take a guess.
but the Hamas situation is something else, Hamas doesn't want those lands, Hamas wants Israel to die. simple as that. Me, my parents, their parents, grew up hoping one day there will be peace. I don't want those wars and no one in Israel wants it. no one wants to rise kids in this situation. but it is being forced upon us. every time the the arabs nations / arabs living in Israel (palastine is a name given by the brits 90 years ago to the land of Israel, which is was named Israel 3000 years ago.
the land wasn't theirs in 1881 or whatever year you think it is. it was never given to them, it was never theirs to take. the arabs called 'Palastine' are group of people from all arabs nations around this area that came to Israeli sattlements and tried to live here. they didn't do a good job and the land of Israel was named as a 'complete ussless dessert that isn't worthy living' (by a brit that came here 120 years ago). Untill we came and made something with this land.now for the sentance about the IDF, sadly and truly I'm outraged because you won't see someone from Hamas posting here to tell you his side, but from my side I can tell you that the IDF is the most moral army in the world. we take care of injured terrorists, we take them to our hospitals, I had many occasiouns when a Hamas member was sitting eye-wrapped next to me and while you would think I'd hurt him, Me and the others didn't put a finger aginst him.
now look at the one Israeli in the Hamas hands. 5 years in prison underground, being tourchered, no one could knew if he's alive or not, when Shalit came back to Israel his arm was injured. tell me how in 5 years it didn't healed ?
look at the Americans, the mighty brits in afganistan and Iraq, look at Russia in their late wars, look at Syria, Egypt, Jurden and evrery other army in the world and you would see the the IDF does his maximum to minimize civilians being hurt and tries as much as it can NOT to kill but to make the other side surrender .
they weren't prasacuted, you might need to look for the Israeli History .
when first Israelis sattlers started building big citys (btw, most of the land were bought from arabs living in Israel, and some of them are in Jorden/Syria hands ) then the arabs living in small camps in here started killing the Israelis.
then we started the Hagana which means Defense in Hebrew (look at the meanings of our forces next to theirs, "The Jihad etc ..") to protect the people. after we were given by the UN nation of our own, we were attacked by the same people, plus Jurden Syria Lebanon Eygpt and Iraq if I recall. since that we've been attacked many times by the same forces, always winning the wars and then declaring truce. we gave Sinai (which is bigger then Israel) just to make peace with Eygpt just so they'll cross us now and help the Hamas.
There's a saying in Israel
When the Arabs will lay down their weapons, there will be peace.
When we will lay down our weapons, we will die.
That's as simple as that
..
What are the odds of fatah coming back into power?
By the way I'm not ignoring that post, there's a lot I need to consider before replying.
It basically seems to be saying, "we Israelis are lovely and have done nothing wrong, it's all the fault of those horrible aggressive Arabs who have no right to be here anyway".
The San Remo resolution, article 6, is the ONLY enforcable document even as you read this, however...
According to the very authors of 242:
The most controversial clause in Resolution 242 is the call for the "Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict." This is linked to the second unambiguous clause calling for "termination of all claims or states of belligerency" and the recognition that "every State in the area" has the "right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force."
"The resolution does not make Israeli withdrawal a prerequisite for Arab action. Moreover, it does not specify how much territory Israel is required to give up. The Security Council did not say Israel must withdraw from "all the" territories occupied after the Six-Day war. This was quite deliberate. The Soviet delegate wanted the inclusion of those words and said that their exclusion meant "that part of these territories can remain in Israeli hands." The Arab states pushed for the word "all" to be included, but this was rejected. They nevertheless asserted that they would read the resolution as if it included the word "all." The British Ambassador who drafted the approved resolution, Lord Caradon, declared after the vote: "It is only the resolution that will bind us, and we regard its wording as clear."
This literal interpretation was repeatedly declared to be the correct one by those involved in drafting the resolution. On October 29, 1969, for example, the British Foreign Secretary told the House of Commons the withdrawal envisaged by the resolution would not be from "all the territories." When asked to explain the British position later, Lord Caradon said: "It would have been wrong to demand that Israel return to its positions of June 4, 1967, because those positions were undesirable and artificial."
Not just the Gaza electorate, they won the parliamentry election but were never allowed to take power
Israel Moves Troops To Gaza
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/15/israel-troops-gaza_n_2139151.html
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip -- Palestinian militants barraged Israel with more than 200 rockets on Thursday, killing three people as Israel pressed a punishing campaign of airstrikes on militant targets across the Gaza Strip. Three rockets targeted the densely populated Tel Aviv area, setting off air raid sirens in brazen attacks that threatened to trigger an Israeli ground invasion of Gaza.
Late in the day, Israel signaled a ground operation may be imminent as forces moved toward the border area with Gaza. At least 12 trucks were seen transporting tanks and armored personnel carriers, and a number of buses carrying soldiers arrived. Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak said he had authorized the army to call-up additional reservists for possible action. The army said it was prepared to draft up to 30,000 additional troops.
"I ordered the military today to widen the draft of reserve soldiers in order to be able to be ready for any development," Barak said. Military officials said the moves were to prepare for the possibility of a ground invasion, but stressed no decision had been made. Israel TV stations, however, said a ground offensive was expected Friday.
The fighting, the heaviest in four years, has also killed 15 Palestinians in two days and brought life to a standstill on both sides of the border. School has been canceled and many were huddling indoors.
Israel and Hamas have largely observed an informal truce for the past four years. But in recent weeks, the calm unraveled in a bout of rocket attacks on Israel from Gaza and retaliatory Israeli airstrikes.
The fighting showed no signs of slowing after dark. Israeli aircraft carried out dozens of attacks on militant targets in Gaza, while militants fired barrages of rockets throughout the day. The fighting began on Wednesday after Israel killed Hamas military chief Ahmed Jabari in an airstrike, then attacked dozens of rocket launchers. The offensive follows weeks of rocket fire out of Gaza.
Thursday's attacks on Tel Aviv, some of the deepest rocket strikes from Gaza on record, set air raid sirens blaring and sparked panic in the streets of the normally laid-back commercial and cultural capital. Israeli Channel 2 TV showed panicked Tel Aviv residents running for cover and lying down on the ground after the sirens began wailing. Diners hid under tables in a restaurant, and traffic snarled on the city's main north-south highway. There were no injuries.
Workers and visitors at offices in a Tel Aviv skyscraper froze for a few seconds in silence as the sound of the sirens wafted through the open windows.
Some murmured "I don't believe it," but everyone quickly and calmly rose and walked to the stairwell to go down to the building's bomb shelter. Many reached for their mobile phones to call loved ones and urge them to run to a protected space, while others kept dialing in frustration as cell networks were overloaded.
One of the rockets landed in an open area of Rishon Lezion, a city on Tel Aviv's southern outskirts, while police said the other two appeared to have landed in the sea. Although there were no injuries, Israel considers any attempt to disrupt life in Tel Aviv to be a major escalation.
Defense officials say Israel is prepared to launch a ground invasion into Gaza if necessary. And Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said the army was prepared for a "significant widening" of its Gaza offensive.
"No government would tolerate a situation where nearly a fifth of its people live under a constant barrage of rockets and missile fire, and Israel will not tolerate this situation," he said. "This is why my government has instructed the Israeli Defense Forces to conduct ******** strikes against the terrorist infrastructure in Gaza. And this is why Israel will continue to take whatever action is necessary to defend our people."
Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh eulogized Jabari in a televised speech on Thursday night.
"What a martyrdom and what a glorious day," he said. "Congratulations. Rest in peace. Feel blessed."
He said Palestinians remained steadfast and defiant during the 22 days of the last Gaza war in 2009 and could hold out for even longer.
"Years after that war, we emphasize that Palestinians are prepared to stand steadfast longer than that," he said. "It is resistance that is capable of creating a new equation on the ground ... capable of fending off aggression and taking revenge for the noble blood of those who have fallen."
Israeli officials say they have not yet decided on whether to launch a ground invasion in Gaza.
While southern Israeli areas near Gaza have long coped with rocket fire, the attacks on the Tel Aviv area illustrated the significant capabilities that Hamas militants have developed. Gaza militants had previously hit Rishon Lezion before but never reached Tel Aviv, roughly 70 kilometers, or 50 miles, north of the strip.
Israel launched the offensive on Wednesday, killing the head of Hamas' militant wing and destroying dozens of rocket launchers. Israel has made special efforts to destroy launchers for Hamas' Iranian-made "Fajr" rockets, which are believed capable of flying even deeper into Israel.
Residents across southern Israel remained huddled indoors or close to home, ordered by authorities to remain close to a network of public bomb shelters.
The deaths in the southern Israeli town of Kiryat Malachi, where a rocket slammed into an apartment building, were the first in Israel since the fighting began.
Explosions rocked Gaza throughout the day as well. Few in the territory's largest urban area, Gaza City, came out following the call for dawn prayers, and the only vehicles plying the streets were ambulances and media cars.
Most Gazans remained in their homes, following developments on Hamas-run TV and local radio stations. Many also provided updates on their Facebook and Twitter accounts, providing news about airstrikes and rocket launches. Others shared prayers and called for militants to stand tough against Israel.
While streets were quiet, bakeries and groceries remained open. No food shortages were reported, and electricity, which suffers frequent outages even during normal times, remained sporadic. Many families keep home generators to maintain power.
"I am trying to calm my children when they hear the sound of explosions," said Zainab Nimr, a 33-year-old mother of three. "We have enough food and water for four days, so I asked my husband to go out and get extra supplies. No one knows when this will end."
Thousands of people, including top Hamas officials, braved the threats to attend the funeral for Jabari, who had long topped Israel's most-wanted list for his role in deadly attacks and building up Hamas' formidable arsenal. Dozens of residents stood solemnly outside their homes or on their balconies as the procession walked by.
"We want to kill in the name of God," chanted mourners as angry gunmen fired automatic weapons into the air. Hundreds of people raised their index fingers in the air, chanting, "God is great."
"This crime will not weaken us. It will make us stronger and more determined to continue the path of jihad and resistance," Hamas lawmaker Mushir al-Masri said in a eulogy. "The enemy opened the battle and shall bear the consequences."
Israel's military spokesman, Brig. Gen. Yoav Mordechai, said the air operation has delivered a "strong blow" to militants' launching sites.
In all, 15 Palestinians have been killed and nearly 200 wounded in fighting on Wednesday and Thursday. The Israeli military says three soldiers were wounded in a rocket attack.
The military said its air campaign has hit 230 targets across Gaza, and its "Iron Dome" rocket defense system has intercepted some 90 incoming rockets.
Still, Palestinian militants continued to launch rockets into Israel throughout the day.
In Washington, the United States lined up behind Israel.
"We support Israel's right to defend itself, and we encourage Israel to continue to take every effort to avoid civilian casualties," State Department spokesman Mark Toner said.
President Barack Obama spoke with Netanyahu and the two men agreed Hamas needs to stop its attacks on Israel to allow tensions to ease, the White House said.
Obama spoke separately to Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi, given Egypt's central role in preserving regional security, the White House said. The two men agreed on the need to de-escalate the conflict as quickly as possible.
U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon called for calm and urged both sides to respect international humanitarian law.
Turkey and Iran, Muslim countries that both have good relations with Hamas, condemned Israel.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/15/israel-troops-gaza_n_2139151.html
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip -- Palestinian militants barraged Israel with more than 200 rockets on Thursday, killing three people as Israel pressed a punishing campaign of airstrikes on militant targets across the Gaza Strip. Three rockets targeted the densely populated Tel Aviv area, setting off air raid sirens in brazen attacks that threatened to trigger an Israeli ground invasion of Gaza.
Late in the day, Israel signaled a ground operation may be imminent as forces moved toward the border area with Gaza. At least 12 trucks were seen transporting tanks and armored personnel carriers, and a number of buses carrying soldiers arrived. Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak said he had authorized the army to call-up additional reservists for possible action. The army said it was prepared to draft up to 30,000 additional troops.
"I ordered the military today to widen the draft of reserve soldiers in order to be able to be ready for any development," Barak said. Military officials said the moves were to prepare for the possibility of a ground invasion, but stressed no decision had been made. Israel TV stations, however, said a ground offensive was expected Friday.
The fighting, the heaviest in four years, has also killed 15 Palestinians in two days and brought life to a standstill on both sides of the border. School has been canceled and many were huddling indoors.
Israel and Hamas have largely observed an informal truce for the past four years. But in recent weeks, the calm unraveled in a bout of rocket attacks on Israel from Gaza and retaliatory Israeli airstrikes.
The fighting showed no signs of slowing after dark. Israeli aircraft carried out dozens of attacks on militant targets in Gaza, while militants fired barrages of rockets throughout the day. The fighting began on Wednesday after Israel killed Hamas military chief Ahmed Jabari in an airstrike, then attacked dozens of rocket launchers. The offensive follows weeks of rocket fire out of Gaza.
Thursday's attacks on Tel Aviv, some of the deepest rocket strikes from Gaza on record, set air raid sirens blaring and sparked panic in the streets of the normally laid-back commercial and cultural capital. Israeli Channel 2 TV showed panicked Tel Aviv residents running for cover and lying down on the ground after the sirens began wailing. Diners hid under tables in a restaurant, and traffic snarled on the city's main north-south highway. There were no injuries.
Workers and visitors at offices in a Tel Aviv skyscraper froze for a few seconds in silence as the sound of the sirens wafted through the open windows.
Some murmured "I don't believe it," but everyone quickly and calmly rose and walked to the stairwell to go down to the building's bomb shelter. Many reached for their mobile phones to call loved ones and urge them to run to a protected space, while others kept dialing in frustration as cell networks were overloaded.
One of the rockets landed in an open area of Rishon Lezion, a city on Tel Aviv's southern outskirts, while police said the other two appeared to have landed in the sea. Although there were no injuries, Israel considers any attempt to disrupt life in Tel Aviv to be a major escalation.
Defense officials say Israel is prepared to launch a ground invasion into Gaza if necessary. And Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said the army was prepared for a "significant widening" of its Gaza offensive.
"No government would tolerate a situation where nearly a fifth of its people live under a constant barrage of rockets and missile fire, and Israel will not tolerate this situation," he said. "This is why my government has instructed the Israeli Defense Forces to conduct ******** strikes against the terrorist infrastructure in Gaza. And this is why Israel will continue to take whatever action is necessary to defend our people."
Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh eulogized Jabari in a televised speech on Thursday night.
"What a martyrdom and what a glorious day," he said. "Congratulations. Rest in peace. Feel blessed."
He said Palestinians remained steadfast and defiant during the 22 days of the last Gaza war in 2009 and could hold out for even longer.
"Years after that war, we emphasize that Palestinians are prepared to stand steadfast longer than that," he said. "It is resistance that is capable of creating a new equation on the ground ... capable of fending off aggression and taking revenge for the noble blood of those who have fallen."
Israeli officials say they have not yet decided on whether to launch a ground invasion in Gaza.
While southern Israeli areas near Gaza have long coped with rocket fire, the attacks on the Tel Aviv area illustrated the significant capabilities that Hamas militants have developed. Gaza militants had previously hit Rishon Lezion before but never reached Tel Aviv, roughly 70 kilometers, or 50 miles, north of the strip.
Israel launched the offensive on Wednesday, killing the head of Hamas' militant wing and destroying dozens of rocket launchers. Israel has made special efforts to destroy launchers for Hamas' Iranian-made "Fajr" rockets, which are believed capable of flying even deeper into Israel.
Residents across southern Israel remained huddled indoors or close to home, ordered by authorities to remain close to a network of public bomb shelters.
The deaths in the southern Israeli town of Kiryat Malachi, where a rocket slammed into an apartment building, were the first in Israel since the fighting began.
Explosions rocked Gaza throughout the day as well. Few in the territory's largest urban area, Gaza City, came out following the call for dawn prayers, and the only vehicles plying the streets were ambulances and media cars.
Most Gazans remained in their homes, following developments on Hamas-run TV and local radio stations. Many also provided updates on their Facebook and Twitter accounts, providing news about airstrikes and rocket launches. Others shared prayers and called for militants to stand tough against Israel.
While streets were quiet, bakeries and groceries remained open. No food shortages were reported, and electricity, which suffers frequent outages even during normal times, remained sporadic. Many families keep home generators to maintain power.
"I am trying to calm my children when they hear the sound of explosions," said Zainab Nimr, a 33-year-old mother of three. "We have enough food and water for four days, so I asked my husband to go out and get extra supplies. No one knows when this will end."
Thousands of people, including top Hamas officials, braved the threats to attend the funeral for Jabari, who had long topped Israel's most-wanted list for his role in deadly attacks and building up Hamas' formidable arsenal. Dozens of residents stood solemnly outside their homes or on their balconies as the procession walked by.
"We want to kill in the name of God," chanted mourners as angry gunmen fired automatic weapons into the air. Hundreds of people raised their index fingers in the air, chanting, "God is great."
"This crime will not weaken us. It will make us stronger and more determined to continue the path of jihad and resistance," Hamas lawmaker Mushir al-Masri said in a eulogy. "The enemy opened the battle and shall bear the consequences."
Israel's military spokesman, Brig. Gen. Yoav Mordechai, said the air operation has delivered a "strong blow" to militants' launching sites.
In all, 15 Palestinians have been killed and nearly 200 wounded in fighting on Wednesday and Thursday. The Israeli military says three soldiers were wounded in a rocket attack.
The military said its air campaign has hit 230 targets across Gaza, and its "Iron Dome" rocket defense system has intercepted some 90 incoming rockets.
Still, Palestinian militants continued to launch rockets into Israel throughout the day.
In Washington, the United States lined up behind Israel.
"We support Israel's right to defend itself, and we encourage Israel to continue to take every effort to avoid civilian casualties," State Department spokesman Mark Toner said.
President Barack Obama spoke with Netanyahu and the two men agreed Hamas needs to stop its attacks on Israel to allow tensions to ease, the White House said.
Obama spoke separately to Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi, given Egypt's central role in preserving regional security, the White House said. The two men agreed on the need to de-escalate the conflict as quickly as possible.
U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon called for calm and urged both sides to respect international humanitarian law.
Turkey and Iran, Muslim countries that both have good relations with Hamas, condemned Israel.
From the RT Live Feed: http://rt.com/news/gaza-israel-hamas-attack-687/
Nov. 15, 20:40 GMT:
An Israeli strike killed a UN school teacher in Gaza. Marwan Abu El Qumsan, an Arabic teacher at a UN school, was killed as his car was hit by a bomb on Thursday, the UN Palestinian refugee agency, UNRWA, says on its website.
Nov. 15, 20:40 GMT:
An Israeli strike killed a UN school teacher in Gaza. Marwan Abu El Qumsan, an Arabic teacher at a UN school, was killed as his car was hit by a bomb on Thursday, the UN Palestinian refugee agency, UNRWA, says on its website.
damn...
How would that happen? Are you expecting free election in Gaza? Any potential candidates are still alive?
Any details on Israeli civilian casualties, Bob?
the last election was widely declared to have been both free and fair, Fatah lost out narrowly in a Democratic Election.
http://www.eu-un.europa.eu/articles/fr/article_5621_fr.htm
I recall people on here claiming Hamas took power because of Fatah corruption and not because the Palestinian society sides with the movement extreme ideology.
This is true in more than one sense.
Hamas won a free, fair and democratic election in 2006...by 44% to 41% for Fatah. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_legislative_election,_2006
background to that was a lot of things, but primarily Palestinian attitudes were hardened after years of the illegal occupation and lack of support from people like the UN, they felt abandoned by the existing government and by the international community and voted for Hamas because they wanted to actually do something and defend them against Israel's illegal and ongoing occupation.
Hamas and Fatah have been in negotiations over the next election date, though obviously the current Israeli attack will delay this of course.
Hamas was democratically elected within a year of Israel's complete withdrawal from the Gaza Strip. that included ethnically cleansing of 8000 Jewish settlers.
You got to be taking the piss with lack of UN support for the Palestinians. Tens of millions of people had to flee their homes in the 1940's around the globe, and the Palestinians were the only ones to get a UN aid agency of their own. Quite telling that the same bunch of people stand out with their "refugee" status 60-odd years on, suggesting UN support has done nothing but hinder a lasting solution to their plight.
They've negotiated plenty of times since Fatah men fled to Israel from Gaza having seen their colleagues thrown off the roofs, shot in the knees or negotiated with via other methods.
I thought you said to RK that this wasn't the time for slogans? And then you come out with the term ethnic cleansing to describe a group of people removed by their own ethnic/religious group?
The UNSC. That is the only UN organisation that really matters. And as long as each country there has veto power and Palestine remains a non-state, the UN will always do nothing for the Palestinians.
This is exactly what I meant. This was an act which was in sharp contrast to the so-called expansionism often attributed to the Zionists on this board. The Zionist regime evacuated an "ultra-Zionist" population from their homes, handing Fatah full control of the Gaza Strip. Next came free democratic parliamentary election in the Palestinian territories, and the people had their say. What happened next in the Gaza Strip suggested that this democratic exercise was a one-off.
VidaRed, I suggest the following video to satisfy your interest in human anatomy. Hopefully you would be able to contribute a bit more to the discussion here when you're done.
This is exactly what I meant. This was an act which was in sharp contrast to the so-called expansionism often attributed to the Zionists on this board. The Zionist regime evacuated an "ultra-Zionist" population from their homes, handing Fatah full control of the Gaza Strip. Next came free democratic parliamentary election in the Palestinian territories, and the people had their say. What happened next in the Gaza Strip suggested that this democratic exercise was a one-off.
My point is that this is not the definition of ethnic cleaning, considering that it was Jews who evacuated Jews (their religious or political beliefs at this point become irrelevant) and I couldn't miss the irony considering your previous request of RK not to use slogans and the history of the situation and how there came to be Palestinian refugees in the first place.
Anyway HR, what is the general consensus in Israel about what will happen next? A few more salvoes between the IDF and Hamas before a ceasefire is mediated via Egypt? Or another Cast lead?
ethnic cleansing, the attempt to create ethnically homogeneous geographic areas through the deportation or forcible displacement of persons belonging to particular ethnic groups.
The Gaza Strip was cleared of its Jewish inhabitants. Obviously, this instance will not be labeled as war crime and that wasn't my point. Instead, I refered to that exercise by a democratically-elected administration as an example of brutally enforcing a decision on settlers in the disputed territories. As I said, the Palestinian people responded by electing an anti-semitic, terrorist organization for parliament.
It's becoming a bit tiring, and has been discussed on here for 7 years now, but I felt we needed a reminder that pro-Palestinian posters on here claimed at the time that Hamas came to power because of Fatah corruption.
The official United Nations definition of ethnic cleansing is "rendering an area ethnically homogeneous by using force or intimidation to remove from a given area persons of another ethnic or religious group."
Though other people will remove the by another ethnic or religious group, I don't think it really makes sense to claim that a race is ethnically cleansing itself.
I wasn't here 7 years ago so cannot comment on those discussions but what is your opinion on why Hamas was voted in?
Though other people will remove the by another ethnic or religious group, I don't think it really makes sense to claim that a race is ethnically cleansing itself.
I wasn't here 7 years ago so cannot comment on those discussions but what is your opinion on why Hamas was voted in?
The general concensus is that a situation in which Hamas dictates the daily lives of a million Israelis could not continue any longer. Egypt's role in this is hard to predict, because Mursi finds himself in a tricky position here.
The nature of these cyclic escalations is unpredictable, and often dictated by chance. What we know for sure is that both Hamas and Israel will survive this round. We also know that Israel works within a limited window of time before international pressure to stop the operation mounts. Add to this the high likelihood that a stray bomb kills a large number of innocent civilians, much to the satisfaction of some sick individuals, further limiting this window. Then there is the will of both sides to have the upper hand, meaning for example that if Tel Aviv is hit or a school is bombed Israel could well have its plans revised.
Ok cheers.
There must be a mix of some or all of the following (in no particular order of importance):
1. Hamas social network has done a marvelous job among the poor Gazan population. Much like Hizballah in Lebanon.
2. Islamic ideology. This flourishes in poor areas, and Palestinian misery has been cultivated for decades.
3. Economy- It's easier to incite a poor, hopeless crowd.
4. Disappointment from the existing regime. The PA was the first ever Palestinian self-administration, and it has found that running daily lives of your people could be more demanding and less glamorous compared with hijacking planes or murdering athletes.
5. The Palestinians never gave up hope of eliminating Israel, and the disengagement was a sign of Israeli weakness. These are seized upon pretty quickly in our neighbourhood.
withdrawal but not ending of the occupation or blockade or siege or assassinations of democratically elected politicians...you mean where you listened to international law for once and stopped occupying some land illegally? don't fecking insult people by calling that ethnic cleansing, it's nothing of the sort.
you mean the 1940's when the UK and other powers took the Palestinians land from them and gave it to you because of international pressure from Zionists? and then when the international community did nothing during your ACTUAL ethnic cleansing of Palestinians and other Arabs during your expansionary wars? 60 years on and Israel continues to expand by brute force and in violation of countless UN resolutions that the UN only can't enforce because of your American overseers...
but who cares about the fact the Palestinians can't get enough food or clean water or sustain themselves because of your blockade, thereby meaning almost every death in Gaza is on your hands...and the constant assassinations of their elected government not only in Gaza but in other nations as well, all of this utterly illegal under international law of course...but a few crude rockets that kill barely anyone are apparently justification for you nations latest attempt at further genocide of the Palestinian population.
your "stray bombs" seem to kill a lot of civilians a lot of the time...and schools? you mean like the UN one you dropped chemical weapons on?
That's fair enough, everyone knows that it should be the Israeli government dictating the daily lives of a million Palestinians.
1. Gaza as a test case. Full withdrawal responded with rockets. Never going to happen again.
2. I'm not sure which elected politicians were assasinated, but if you can up with their names perhaps we could assess their fate based on facts.
3. The Gaza settlers had their homes demolished and were removed from their settlements because they were Jewish.
4. Nothing was taken from the "Palestinians" in the 1940's, because collectively they had nothing. They are a relatively new invention. Statehood was granted to Israel by the UN, so stop fecking insulting people with your international law crap.
5. Ethnic cleansing of Jews from Arab countries and Arab occupied territories outweighs that of Arabs from Israel. Noreover, the Arabs who fled Israel in the 1940's had a reason to fear reprisals considering why and when the 1948 was erupted.
6. Back in 1948, and ever since, Israel expands when it's attacked by its Arab neighbours.
7. Israel is proud of its relations with the US. Nothing to be ashamed of. The UN on the other hand can feck right off. We take part in that NY game, but don't take it too seriously.
Desalination plants costs les than 40000 missiles. They have available advanced technologies across the border...no, not the Egyptian one. Across the Egyptian border they have Mursi, the king of the Muslim Brotherhood. Springtime. How come they are still under blockade? Is Mursi a US puppet too, or works for Israel like Mubarak?
I expect my country to fight Hamas in all possible means, because Hamas exists in order to destroy my country. I'm sure you are familiar with the Hamas charter.
In the last paragraph you're just making a complete fool of yourself. Chemical weapons. By the way, I hope you get the chance to live for 12 years under the threat of crude rockets. BTW, I'm proud to pay taxes that helped develop and purchase the Iron Dome system that intercept many of those. Warm thanks to the American tax-payers too.
Current Death Toll
20 dead - 5 confirmed militants/terrorists/freedom fighters, 8 civilians on the Palestinian side
3 civilians killed on the Israeli side
*Can't find reliable information for the remaining 7 Palestinian dead, they could be members of Hamas or civilians.
-Israel hit 130 sites overnight
-Hamas fired 11 rockets at Israel from Gaza
Lull in bombing as promised by Israel with the visit of the Egyptian PM.
Think nothing of it
20 dead - 5 confirmed militants/terrorists/freedom fighters, 8 civilians on the Palestinian side
3 civilians killed on the Israeli side
*Can't find reliable information for the remaining 7 Palestinian dead, they could be members of Hamas or civilians.
-Israel hit 130 sites overnight
-Hamas fired 11 rockets at Israel from Gaza
Lull in bombing as promised by Israel with the visit of the Egyptian PM.
Warm thanks to the American tax-payers too.
Think nothing of it
Current Death Toll
20 dead - 5 confirmed militants/terrorists/freedom fighters, 8 civilians on the Palestinian side
3 civilians killed on the Israeli side
*Can't find reliable information for the remaining 7 Palestinian dead, they could be members of Hamas or civilians.
-Israel hit 130 sites overnight
-Hamas fired 11 rockets at Israel from Gaza
Lull in bombing as promised by Israel with the visit of the Egyptian PM.
Think nothing of it
Are you fecking serious?
You see world? thanking the Muslims results in nothing but blatant lies.
Needless to say the Palestinians carried on launching rockets at Israeli cities during the visit of the Egyptian PM, despite the lull.