In a two-state scenario this is unlikely to happen. This may explain why the Palestinians are not too keen.
Israeli - Palestinian Conflict
- Thread starter Raoul
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In a two-state scenario this is unlikely to happen. This may explain why the Palestinians are not too keen.
Bolivia declares Israel ‘terrorist state’, scraps visa exemption agreement
The President of Bolivia Evo Morales (AFP Photo)
Canceling the 1972 agreement which allowed Israelis to travel freely to Bolivia “means, in other words, we are declaring (Israel) a terrorist state,” the country's President Evo Morales announced.
Morales explained that Operation Protective edge clearly shows that “Israel is not a guarantor of the principles of respect for life and the elementary precepts of rights that govern the peaceful and harmonious coexistence of our international community.”
The announcement came after a cabinet meeting of the government of Evo Morales which decided that; “The Bolivian state and people have made a firm decision to terminate the agreement on visas to Israel, from August 17, 1972, signed under a regime of dictatorship in Bolivia and that allowed Israeli citizens to enter Bolivia freely without even entry visa."
Earlier in July, Morales filed a request with the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights to prosecute Israel for “crimes against humanity.”
Other Latin American countries including Chile and El Salvador recalled their ambassadors in Israel on Tuesday for consultations due to the increased violence in the Gaza Strip against civilians. The move follows similar actions by Ecuador, Brazil and Peru who have also recalled their ambassadors.
Palestinians carry the body of a local Palestinian journalist, whom medics said was killed by Israeli shelling near a market in Shejaia, as smoke rises in the east of Gaza City July 30, 2014. (Reuters/Ashraf Amrah)
Bolivia broke off diplomatic relations with Israel in 2009 over a previous military operation in Gaza.
Just on Wednesday morning shelling of a UN School in Gaza, left at least 20 dead. The incident has brought worldwide condemnation.
READ MORE: 20 killed in Israeli UN school shelling
United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-moon has condemned a deadly attack by Israel against a UN school in the besieged Gaza Strip.
"It is outrageous. It is unjustifiable. And it demands accountability and justice," said the UN chief in Costa Rica on Wednesday.
The IDF military campaign which began July 8, so far has left more than 1,300 dead and over 7,000 wounded.
The President of Bolivia Evo Morales (AFP Photo)
Canceling the 1972 agreement which allowed Israelis to travel freely to Bolivia “means, in other words, we are declaring (Israel) a terrorist state,” the country's President Evo Morales announced.
Morales explained that Operation Protective edge clearly shows that “Israel is not a guarantor of the principles of respect for life and the elementary precepts of rights that govern the peaceful and harmonious coexistence of our international community.”
The announcement came after a cabinet meeting of the government of Evo Morales which decided that; “The Bolivian state and people have made a firm decision to terminate the agreement on visas to Israel, from August 17, 1972, signed under a regime of dictatorship in Bolivia and that allowed Israeli citizens to enter Bolivia freely without even entry visa."
Earlier in July, Morales filed a request with the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights to prosecute Israel for “crimes against humanity.”
Other Latin American countries including Chile and El Salvador recalled their ambassadors in Israel on Tuesday for consultations due to the increased violence in the Gaza Strip against civilians. The move follows similar actions by Ecuador, Brazil and Peru who have also recalled their ambassadors.
Palestinians carry the body of a local Palestinian journalist, whom medics said was killed by Israeli shelling near a market in Shejaia, as smoke rises in the east of Gaza City July 30, 2014. (Reuters/Ashraf Amrah)
Bolivia broke off diplomatic relations with Israel in 2009 over a previous military operation in Gaza.
Just on Wednesday morning shelling of a UN School in Gaza, left at least 20 dead. The incident has brought worldwide condemnation.
READ MORE: 20 killed in Israeli UN school shelling
United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-moon has condemned a deadly attack by Israel against a UN school in the besieged Gaza Strip.
"It is outrageous. It is unjustifiable. And it demands accountability and justice," said the UN chief in Costa Rica on Wednesday.
The IDF military campaign which began July 8, so far has left more than 1,300 dead and over 7,000 wounded.
I don't think that has anything to do with it. "Let's sabotage a two state solution and continue living as second class citizens under grinding oppression because one day, decades from now, a demographic model suggests people of Arab descent might have a higher population!"
So I ask again, how could Israel continue to be a "Jewish state" that is also a democracy if the time comes where Jews are not the majority?
Oh shit. Bolivia is not a friend anymore...That's it. I am leaving.
I think the state of Israel is an unfortunate reality that the Arab world has to recognize, there are millions of Jews now living there, and any other solution other than to live by their side would be disastrous. Arabs can't do to Jews what Jews did onto them in recent history, it's just not humane. The solution I would like to see is the less viable one:
One state that does not have a Jewish identity. The Palestinian refugees right of return to be fulfilled. Jews' worries of being thrown into the sea to be monitored by foreign countries.
This is the only just and humane solution. It's true that we have to fight the instilled and pervasive racism we have on both sides. Arabs have no other solution but to forgive the Israelis for the atrocities they committed and put the matter behind them. And Israelis have to educate their children that Arabs are not inferior to them.
That would be beautiful. It's a daydream of course.
Some have said exactly that. Others have a quicker tactic to reach that goal. They call it "the right of return".
If its democratic then potentially a future non-Jewish majority may want to re-examine the definition of the state as Jewish.
Hehe....Israel to commit suicide and Jews to be protected by foreign countries. Now when was the last time this happened? No wonder you think that would be beautiful.
What happened to your list of massacres? Certainly doesn't fit with the comment that "Arabs can't do to Jews what Jews did onto them in recent history, it's just not humane".
Back on topic, dramatic development in the Rafah area. Heavy fighting and dozens of casualties. Ceasefire, Gaza style.
Looks like Israel will not have a choice other than getting rid of Hamas.
How the hell does it suit Hamas to have a ceasefire?
There only path to 'victory' is to have more innocent casualties.
People here just don't get it. Or worse, some do.
Why exactly did the UN give The state of Israel in such a dodgy area where they'd already had 3k years of conflict with neighboring countries/ethnicities? As sickening as the holocaust was, it would have made more sense giving them a big chunk of land up near the North Pole or something. I don't think much thought went into the creation of the State of Israel, they were given what they wanted, where they wanted based on the massive loss of life at the hands of the Axis. But Israel weren't content with what the UN had given them, with the Israeli boundaries being stretched from the off, displacing 100 of thousands of indigenous Arabs in the process.
I think it's getting to the time where the world super powers need to get tough with Israel. Hit them with sanctions, trade embargoes etc. Once it starts to affect their economy they might think twice about the ongoing onslaught of drone strikes and the like. So Hamas fire a few crudely made rockets over the other side in retaliation...it hardly justifies the waves attacks on Palestinian civilians. These are not exactly what you'd call strategic strikes from Israel, if it was they'd be selecting their sites to bomb a little more selectively.
Maybe I don't get it. Different cultures, the history and the hatred etc. But from where I'm sitting Israel certainly don't seem to be acting like a first world country with a rational gov't or a stable military. Every time it comes on the news I turn it straight off, it's a very sad situation. The word 'ceasefire' is being bandied around. I'm skeptical.
I think it's getting to the time where the world super powers need to get tough with Israel. Hit them with sanctions, trade embargoes etc. Once it starts to affect their economy they might think twice about the ongoing onslaught of drone strikes and the like. So Hamas fire a few crudely made rockets over the other side in retaliation...it hardly justifies the waves attacks on Palestinian civilians. These are not exactly what you'd call strategic strikes from Israel, if it was they'd be selecting their sites to bomb a little more selectively.
Maybe I don't get it. Different cultures, the history and the hatred etc. But from where I'm sitting Israel certainly don't seem to be acting like a first world country with a rational gov't or a stable military. Every time it comes on the news I turn it straight off, it's a very sad situation. The word 'ceasefire' is being bandied around. I'm skeptical.
What, by waves of drone strikes/rockets on Palestinian civilians in the hope of hitting the odd Hamas big cheese? Great strategy
Who in his right mind would want to live as a minority under a Muslim rule?! Are you for real?
I did not say a Muslim rule. I'm fiercely opposed to that.
Your historic homeland is Egypt if you go back far enough. You love Sisi, please go home
It would suit Hamas to have a ceasefire only when its grip on the GS is threatened, and unfortunately its leaders still have a sense of security. Occasionally, ceasefires here start with minor incidents for bragging rights, but my guess is that what may have happened and still not made public is a major incident followed by a brutal response.
My last wish will be getting the rope next to you then. Saying "I told you" would be a nice way to go.
Should have settled for that. Even dropped the "maybe".
You need to get laid.
What, by waves of drone strikes/rockets on Palestinian civilians in the hope of hitting the odd Hamas big cheese? Great strategy
Can't get the big boys without controlling the territory, unfortunately. They hide in bunkers under hospitals. Alternatively, Israel could avoid a ceasfire, even if the tunnels are destroyed and the IDF pulls out. Targeted killing of Hamas leaders should be the next tactic unless innocent Palestinians on them first.
You are accusing me of wishing death to Jewish people. That's uncalled for and you should apologize.
What's suicidal for Israel? to not exist as a Jewish state? There are other people, indigenous people living with you on this land, who actually have a better claim to it.
As for the massacres.. start with Deir Yassin, Kafr Qasim, Eilabun, Tantoura. This isn't for you HR btw, you already knows this.
How ironic that is, considering your spokesman is called Mushir al-Masri.
I have a spokesman? Why the hell am I posting on here then? When are you packing, you are so hung up on staying in your historic homeland, there plenty of room in Egypt
It sounds like you're justifying the bombing of hospitals and residential areas to wipe out Hamas. Despicable.
It won't happen. That's just perpetuated fear. You have made peace with some of your neighbours, if you solve the Palestine issue you won't have much to fear.
Ah alright. So this new, free Palestine, would that be a liberal democracy? A secular, non-Islamic, non-Sharia based state? I don't think you actually believe that this is possible. Which only underlines the reason why no other non-Muslim group would ever want to live as a minority in such a state.
Wishing death? No. You are proposing a scenario in which Jews would be subject to protection by foreign countries in their own state. I thought I heard it all, but this and Mozza's Egyptian alternative go straight to the top 2.
As for the massacres: I have read different accounts on the Tantoura one, and not familiar with the previous two. Regardless, I am familiar with atrocities committed by both sides as I said. Are you?
Swap "Muslim" for "Jewish" in that question and the answer would be exactly the same.
Actually, there are minorities living in majority Muslim states who live very peaceful and content lives. In Indonesia, for example. So, ironically, it's living as a minority in a Jewish state that seems to be uniquely problematic.
Yeah. Looking around fills me with optimism.
Really? so why would Israeli Arabs refuse to swap their Israeli citizenship for a Palestinian one as part of a land swap mechanism which would allow a two-state solution?
I don't think you need protection after a peace process. But since you're paranoid I thought you might appreciate it.
Because Israel is a much richer and more prosperous state, for reasons discussed ad nauseum in this thread.
There are not many Christian paranoids left in the Arab world.
All gloves are off again .Israelis saying that one of their soldiers as been abducted.
I'm offended by that. But I can assure you my ignorance of the situation is not a patch on your bias. You are a true patriot HL, but you are also a blinkered fanatic that can't let anybody attempt to side with anything remotely to do with Palestinian sympathies.
Look at the loss of life ratio, Israeli: Palestinian, for starters. But you've already justified that as necessity to wipe out Hamas, even if it means taking out hundreds of civilians in the process. US should pull out of places like Afghanistan and put lightweights like the Israelis truly in their place, swiftly and with force.
So its the existence of a prosperous Israel that causes unrest among Arabs? They all want to be second-class citizens here? No trick with words, swapping "Jews" with "Arabs" will result in a similar statement. Gulf states are a lot richer than Israel, and few Jews would swap Israel for them.
It's about civil rights and freedom. You just don't get those in Arab states. Arabs here fair better than in any Arab state.
72 hour ceasefire doing well then.....
Swap "Muslims" with "Arabs" then.
That is correct.
There are, and it saddens me. All Arabs in Israel oppose what's happening in the name of Islam by the Islamist gangs. How can we not? And all Arabs in Israel are opposed to what Israel it's doing except a tiny minority. Which we should. And you should, if only you could sympathize with your inferior neighbour.
Muslims and Christian Arabs have historically got on just fine in secular nations such as Iraq and Syria. Heck, the pioneers of Arab Ba'athism were Christians. Of course, the West and their Gulf Arab allies deciding to fund Al Qaeda extremists in those nations is going to compromise that fabric.