It had about 4 question marks in it, which was a hint they weren't answers I was posting. Questions are now daft? That's about right I suppose.
Israeli - Palestinian Conflict
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
It had about 4 question marks in it, which was a hint they weren't answers I was posting. Questions are now daft? That's about right I suppose.
It'd be over if only Cork recognised Israel as a Jewish state. The Irish are Celts anyway. They should be living in Wales and Scotland.
Lost my respect to Harris. He should not get involved in things he doesn't understand.
Except that's all nonsense. Saddam and Al Qaeda were enemies, Iraq had zero AQ presence prior to the 2003 invasion.
If the US was serious about targeting nations tolerant of Islamist Terrorism then they ought to start with Saudi Arabia, not one of the most secular Arab nations.
@Kaos Off topic - but please, if u haven't already, watch this Hitchens/Galloway debate. Really absorbing.
I've seen it. Raoul posted it a year ago I think.
Pretty much everyone thinks they're cleverer than they actually are. More to the point, an opinion that differs radically from yours (and mine, and anyones) is - to you - intrinsically dumber. If you thought it was cleverer you'd hold it. In much the same way that everyone with an opinion thinks they're right about everything. As no one deliberately holds opinions they know or even suspect are wrong. (Which, btw, is always a good inference when someone accuses that you "always think you're right!")
To the vast majority of people, the cleverest philosophers are simply the ones who can better articulate their own opinions/ideas/prejudices/etc.
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Not sure what you're trying to show here. Is this supposed to salvage the ME-NI analogy?
I beleive it was Abbas that refused to negotiate with Netanyahu recently.
What are the Israelis expected to believe about the intensions of the Palestinians when this comes out of the moderate Fatah corner?
Since Isreal hold all the power in this relationship, and are supposed to be the more civilised modern society, it's not up to them to demand reassurances. It's like a fat bully holding a scrawny kid underwater and saying he won't let him up until he's convinced he won't throw a twig at him. You HAVE to be the one who takes the leap of faith, otherwise it doesn't work.
Palestinians have to learn for themselves that Hamas and their ilk are their own enemy, not be told it with a gun to their head. At the moment all Israel is doing is compounding the belief they're freedom fighters. And round and round the mulberry bush we go forever more.
Palestinians have to learn for themselves that Hamas and their ilk are their own enemy, not be told it with a gun to their head. At the moment all Israel is doing is compounding the belief they're freedom fighters. And round and round the mulberry bush we go forever more.
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Nope, La Tene, in Switzerland.
Rubbish. Israel is surrounded by hundreds of millions of people who deny its right to exist as a Jewish homeland. We are certainly in a position to deman reassurances when the scrawny kid vows to use whatever gains he gets through negotiations as a platform on which to build the next phase of his "struggle".
What Israel is doing right now in starting to exert its right for self defence. This should go on until the Gaza Strip ceases to be a terror threat.
Do you genuinely believe any attempt to eradicate Israel would stand in the modern world? With American backing and international awareness? Postering about Rwanda and Darfur are all well and good, but completely un-equatable in any terms but rhetoric. Even from a cynical point of view, US interests in the area would necessitate immediate action.
Starting!? All this can do is breed a new generation of terrorists. You can carpet bomb the place if you like, but you'll always be the evil oppressive power they resent. Are you aiming for a Hiroshima like victory of completely crushed bodies and wills? Or do you at least concede some semblance of a relationship should be strove for?
Trust is a two way street. At the very least it would achieve some global sympathy, because killing children every night is quickly eroding the good will you have left.
With your attitude the problem will never go away. Well done. Enjoy the next 100 years of unrest.
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Everybody around me denies I'm Dante, but the fact is ... er... that I am. Who the feck cares what they think?
It's par for the course to repudiate the legitimacy of a state you consider the enemy. The way to get over that is to make peace rather than continuing war. Or else you always will be the enemy.
Jesus. I'd hate to see what a frightened Israel is capable of.
Watch out if you're in a school or a hospital.
I thought Israel wanted peace and it was the Palestinians who were stopping it from happening.
Could you imagine the reality of life in an Israel that stretches 5-20 miles wide along its most densley populated areas under rocket fires and tunnel threat from the WB? Would you take a second thinking about Israel's economy if the BG international airport would be closed every time a "radical faction" decides to fire a rocket from a Hamas-controlled WB? It's obvious that Israel won't be conquered in an all-out ground invasion, but what Israeli would want to live under this not far-fetched reality. It's absolutely madness that Israel served this dish to its civilians in the South for 15 years.
And what would Israel be able to do in retaliation to what I'm describing here? Big fat feck all, because whatever it tried would be disproportionate, wouldn't it? It would still be a civilised modern society, expected not to play into the hands of terrorists come freedom fighters.
You well know that this is not about the warmth of being called by our favourite nickname. Not acknowledging our right for a nation-state correlates with aspiring for an Arab state from the river to the sea, as outlined so well by the Fatah official in the video above. Netanyahu recognized the right of the Palestinian people for an independent state, and if the Palestinians could reciprocate it would be a substantial leap towards a more peaceful future.
Stop providing the Gaza Strip with free electricity? Brutal, eh?
If that were true, he wouldn't be building settlements on their land.
Thats why Hamas need dead children. Are you getting just how sick Hamas are?
I mean why else the rockets?
If they need them, and it's a plan, and what Hamas wants, then why does Israel oblige?
If a sick fecker wants you to do something sick and you know it's sick and still do it, what does that make you?
Some sort of helpless third party?
No, it's just to show how consistently successful the Palestinian 'threat' to Israel has been.
Bit like Gaza?
So because you can imagine a scenario where a hypothetically toothless Israel gets pushed into the sea by a hypothetically powerful Hamas while a hypothetically disinterested and anti-semitic worlds lets it happen, everything is fair game until you can stop imagining it? Just because sections of the arab world have expressed a fondness for this kind of nightmare scenario, doesn't mean that any let up in your relentless war against a tiny populous will immediately open the floodgates to it's inevitable reality. Or that diplomacy (or even just a less aggressive bombing policy) equates to a wholesale shriveling of Israel's power.
What exactly is it you expect the Palestinians to learn from this? Fear? And what exactly do you think this continuous policy will foster in the next 50 years? A new generation of Palestinians who appreciate and respect this fear, with absolutely no inclination to fight against it?
Nothing will change unless both sides can empathise with the other, and not see everything through the blinkered prism of Nationalism. You included. You can't claim to be the more progressive and civilised society if you refuse to be the one to start this.
So what's to be done? Continue to kill these children and feed into Hamas's hands? Do you think this current policy is helping Palestinian children see the error in Hamas, or the righteousness of it?
Keep punching the scrawny kid in the face until he realises his brother throwing apples at me is the real enemy. Usually works. Those apples would really hurt if I took off all my apple protective clothing stood much closer to him. Which is obviously what I'd be forced to do if I stopped punching.
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At the end of the day, Israel has a responsibility to carry out the most effective operation while being the least devastating to civilians. That is what Israel is currently striving for militarily.
People keep mentioning peace talks but Hamas continue to put their agenda above the lives of the Gazan people.
Nobody is punching the scrawny kid in the face to make him resent his brother, who is throwing apples; it is more the case that the brother is throwing apples from behind the scrawny kid while forcing him to stay where he is so he gets hit by the return... apples. Ridiculous analogy on your part.
Blast on live tv, as CNN reporter is on the air (video half way down the page)
http://news.yahoo.com/cnn-gaza-blast-live-video-105400574.html
http://news.yahoo.com/cnn-gaza-blast-live-video-105400574.html
Definition of martyrs:
For Jews and Christians; die for what they believe.
For Muslims; kill for what they believe.
I'm still waiting for a plausible explanation for this. The whole thing is so unbelievably short-sighted. There's no rational reason to keep doing what they're doing, other than purely as a retaliation. I'd love to know what the electorate in Israel think. I guess it could be all about winning votes (these things usually are) but you do wonder if they're passing the point at which the reasonabe majority buy into their strategy.
They do hold the power, which is precisely why they aren't obliged to do things Hamas' way. The side that holds the power gets to set the agenda, which is why the rocket campaign was doomed from the beginning. They will run out of rockets and other munitions, at which point Israel will be even less incentivized to negotiate. All the while the death and destruction will continue to pile up and Hamas' political objectives will be set back further than they were before this latest flare up started. They're completely clutching at straws if they think this will end well for them.
I know your "thing" is scattergun idiotic comments but how many of those 'martrys' listed above killed anyone?
Palestine will be crushed until they are forced to flee to other lands and concede what little they have left to Israel. Nobody will back the Palestinians because they, unlike Israel, offer nothing to the Western world. If the tables were turned, would Congress allow Palestine to carry on bombing Israel or would they deny them 'their right to protect themselves'?
That's exactly what it is, isn't it. Tit for tat retaliation for Hamas' rockets. I don't think its realistic to expect one side to continually launch attacks while the other does nothing, especially when it has the means and political will for a massive retaliation.
That's just racist. The word martyr applies to people of any faith in the same way.
Why they still inside their houses after a phone call and a dummy shell hits the houses? They are really "martyrs" or they are forced to stay inside? Any man who keeps his children inside is a murder.
WUM and an utterly distasteful one at that. Those are the names of families.
Not sure about that and you need to learn the definition of racism as well.
You need to learn not to be racist.
He's not racist - but clearly a religionist.