Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

Raoul said:
It would seem the only way the PA will gain access to the field is if they are in charge of Gaza.
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I believe that is the case. Before October 7 similar deal as in Lebanon (silent okay by Hezbollah) could have been done. Today it is impossible.Whether it will be PA, Bargouthi or some other arrangement after the war is over we can be sure that Hamas wont be part of the deal.
 
Raoul said:
Looks like the Government may collapse in the coming weeks...



Gantz’ 6 demands:

1. To return home our abductees.

2. To topple the rule of Hamas, annex the Gaza Strip and ensure Israeli security control.

3. Along with maintaining Israeli security control, establish an American-European-Arab-Palestinian administration that will civilian manage the Strip and lay the foundation for a future alternative that is not Hamas or Abbas.

4. Return the residents of the north to their homes by September 1 and restore the Western Negev.

5. Promote normalization with Saudi Arabia as part of a comprehensive move that will create an alliance with the free world and the Arab world against Iran.

6. Adopt a service outline that will result in all Israelis serving the state and contributing to the national effort.
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What it means annex but then controled by american-eruropean-arab-pslestinian administration?

So officially being israel? (And little by little settling i guess)
 
Raoul said:
Looks like the Government may collapse in the coming weeks...



Gantz’ 6 demands:

1. To return home our abductees.

2. To topple the rule of Hamas, annex the Gaza Strip and ensure Israeli security control.

3. Along with maintaining Israeli security control, establish an American-European-Arab-Palestinian administration that will civilian manage the Strip and lay the foundation for a future alternative that is not Hamas or Abbas.

4. Return the residents of the north to their homes by September 1 and restore the Western Negev.

5. Promote normalization with Saudi Arabia as part of a comprehensive move that will create an alliance with the free world and the Arab world against Iran.

6. Adopt a service outline that will result in all Israelis serving the state and contributing to the national effort.
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4bars said:
What it means annex but then controled by american-eruropean-arab-pslestinian administration?

So officially being israel? (And little by little settling i guess)
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I’m guessing something is lost in translation as 2 and 3 contradict each other taken literally, and Gantz is not known to be an advocate of staying in Gaza.
 
4bars said:
What it means annex but then controled by american-eruropean-arab-pslestinian administration?

So officially being israel? (And little by little settling i guess)
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Here's another account of his remarks with different language.

 
2cents said:
I’m guessing something is lost in translation as 2 and 3 contradict each other taken literally, and Gantz is not known to be an advocate of staying in Gaza.
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Yeah, it was from a dodgy account so I deleted the original tweet.
 
Raoul said:
Here's another account of his remarks with different language.

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According to the Lebanese pro-Resistance Axis paper Al Akhbar there is a solid American-Saudi proposal on the table which Hamas are potentially open to that involves a “revitalized” PA assuming control in Gaza on an interim basis with elections ahead and a demilitarized Hamas incorporated, eventually leading to the declaration of a Palestinian state, in exchange for complete normalization of Arab states, including Saudi Arabia, with Israel. If Gantz is taking this proposal seriously and believes Netanyahu and those to his right are the major obstacles then this ultimatum makes some sense.
 
2cents said:
According to the Lebanese pro-Resistance Axis paper Al Akhbar there is a solid American-Saudi proposal on the table which Hamas are potentially open to that involves a “revitalized” PA assuming control in Gaza on an interim basis with elections ahead and a demilitarized Hamas incorporated, eventually leading to the declaration of a Palestinian state, in exchange for complete normalization of Arab states, including Saudi Arabia, with Israel. If Gantz is taking this proposal seriously and believes Netanyahu and those to his right are the major obstacles then this ultimatum makes some sense.
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I suppose that would depend on how the Israrelis process the demilitarized Hamas bit since they are pretty galvanized that Hamas shouldn't exist in Gaza at all.
 
Raoul said:
I suppose that would depend on how the Israrelis process the demilitarized Hamas bit since they are pretty galvanized that Hamas shouldn't exist in Gaza at all.
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From what I grasp from the article, it seems Hamas would essentially be fully incorporated into the PLO, its members becoming functionaries in the revitalized PA, and would cease to exist as a distinct movement and organization.
 
africanspur said:
I don't think anyone, ever, has said that Hamas don't have tunnels. Nor was it a mystery that Hamas must have tunnels to Egypt as well.

That's.....an interesting account you find yourself reading too.
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Makes you wonder why Egypt has been so worried about Israel going into Rafah.

What does this mean for Israel/Egyptian relations moving forward? If Egypt is using its country to funnel weapons to Hamas.

it's a complete breakdown of the 1982 peace agreement
 
africanspur said:
I don't think anyone, ever, has said that Hamas don't have tunnels. Nor was it a mystery that Hamas must have tunnels to Egypt as well.

That's.....an interesting account you find yourself reading too.
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Not the first time gfactor posts far right accounts in here.

 
gfactor86 said:
Makes you wonder why Egypt has been so worried about Israel going into Rafah.

What does this mean for Israel/Egyptian relations moving forward? If Egypt is using its country to funnel weapons to Hamas.

it's a complete breakdown of the 1982 peace agreement
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They're probably worried that Israel will worsen a humanitarian crisis on its border.

They're probably worried that Israel may fulfil what some Israelis long for and ethnically cleanse the Palestinians out of Gaza into the Sinai. And they'll have millions of seething Palestinians, in the middle of the desert, wanting revenge against a country that has no qualms in bombing other countries to get at Palestinians and amongst their own Bedouins in the Sinai who have historical qualms against the Egyptian government and who have previously taken up arms.

They're probably worried that the lid of control they currently have over their own population, already bubbling to some extent, may explode at the Governments impotence and inability to stand up for either Egyptian or Palestinian rights.

I worry for you and for Imtiaz if you genuinely believe that Egypt is funnelling weapons to Hamas and it shows an incredibly fundamental misunderstanding of Middle Eastern political spheres and ideologies. Sisi's government funnelling money to an organisation that is paramilitary but regardless an ideological offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood.....is crazy.

Then again, Imtiaz thinks that all Christians in Muslim countries are being beheaded ISIS style, Japan has banned Islam and Muslims and that bikinis are banned in Muslim countries so I'd consider other sources for your geopolitical analysis.
 
NotThatSoph said:
Not the first time gfactor posts far right accounts in here.

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to be honest this is pretty wide spread news and I clicked on a random Twitter link. Didn't bother to go through anything else on his account.

Dozens of neutral accounts and news outlets reporting the same thing
 
gfactor86 said:
to be honest this is pretty wide spread news and I clicked on a random Twitter link. Didn't bother to go through anything else on his account.

Dozens of neutral accounts and news outlets reporting the same thing
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Yeah, you just got unlucky. Again. Shit happens, especially to you.
 
africanspur said:
I don't think anyone, ever, has said that Hamas don't have tunnels. Nor was it a mystery that Hamas must have tunnels to Egypt as well.

That's.....an interesting account you find yourself reading too.
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Months ago we were told that the terrorist state of israel knew everything about hamas tunnels and had solid plans on how to disable them (pumping seawater into them, filling them up with chemicals etc etc).


Now we're being told "hey look, hamas have tunnels!" Bunch of clowns
 
africanspur said:
They're probably worried that Israel will worsen a humanitarian crisis on its border.

They're probably worried that Israel may fulfil what some Israelis long for and ethnically cleanse the Palestinians out of Gaza into the Sinai. And they'll have millions of seething Palestinians, in the middle of the desert, wanting revenge against a country that has no qualms in bombing other countries to get at Palestinians and amongst their own Bedouins in the Sinai who have historical qualms against the Egyptian government and who have previously taken up arms.

They're probably worried that the lid of control they currently have over their own population, already bubbling to some extent, may explode at the Governments impotence and inability to stand up for either Egyptian or Palestinian rights.

I worry for you and for Imtiaz if you genuinely believe that Egypt is funnelling weapons to Hamas and it shows an incredibly fundamental misunderstanding of Middle Eastern political spheres and ideologies. Sisi's government funnelling money to an organisation that is paramilitary but regardless an ideological offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood.....is crazy.

Then again, Imtiaz thinks that all Christians in Muslim countries are being beheaded ISIS style, Japan has banned Islam and Muslims and that bikinis are banned in Muslim countries so I'd consider other sources for your geopolitical analysis.
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So what you're saying is, it's ok for Egypt to have tunnels into the Gaza Strip, which allows Hamas to get supplies and weaponry.

They have a more heavily fortified border with Gaza than the Israelis do.

So why do they allow Hamas to roam freely but not the Palestinians?
 
So Israel is not allowed to go into Rafah to shut down the network of tunnels that allows Hamas and exit route, weaponry and supplies.

Weaponry that they use try and murder Israelis.
 
gfactor86 said:
So what you're saying is, it's ok for Egypt to have tunnels into the Gaza Strip, which allows Hamas to get supplies and weaponry.

They have a more heavily fortified border with Gaza than the Israelis do.

So why do they allow Hamas to roam freely but not the Palestinians?
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Could you perhaps point me to where I said its OK for Egypt to have tunnels into the Gaza strip? Just quoting the line itself will do.

You do realise the whole point of a tunnel......is to avoid the authorities? I'm struggling to understand how this is even a question?

If he border is probably more heavily fortified (I genuinely don't know, could you provide a reference for that), its because Israel directed all their regular firepower on subjugating the Palestinians in the West Bank instead and thought they'd neutered the ones in Gaza enough for them to not be a threat.

You will of course also know I'm sure, with your in depth knowledge of the local geopolitics, that the Camp David accords between Israel and Egypt prevents Egypt from militarising the Sinai as they would other parts of their territory. You will also know that what military force they are allowed in there is currently trying to (not that successfully) fight a low level insurgency in the Sinai.
 
If you have 2 hours to spare, this is a very good doc on the Israeli settler movement and its chronology as well as interviews with settlers. It's just crazy to see how extremist and entitled they are.

 
VorZakone said:
If you have 2 hours to spare, this is a very good doc on the Israeli settler movement and its chronology as well as interviews with settlers. It's just crazy to see how extremist and entitled they are.

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I'd never seen Rabin's speech after Goldstein's massacre. Wonder what Bibi, Smotrich et al would do now. Probably build him a statue.
 
africanspur said:
I'd never seen Rabin's speech after Goldstein's massacre. Wonder what Bibi, Smotrich et al would do now. Probably build him a statue.
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There's also a Rabin quote in there about the exorbitant costs of providing security for the settlements when those settlements do not provide security to Israel.
 
This has been a travesty to the innocent people of Gaza. Tells you all you need to know about humans and why events in WW2 although 100% not excusable brings to focus how humans can be cruel when given power.

I am just hoping this dark episode for the Palestine comes to an end as soon as possible with the right and freedom to decide their own future. Really sad the inhumanity of man to his fellow human
 


Stating the obvious, with Israel's real goal of the war. But thought it would be good to listen to it.
 
gfactor86 said:
So Israel is not allowed to go into Rafah to shut down the network of tunnels that allows Hamas and exit route, weaponry and supplies.

Weaponry that they use try and murder Israelis.
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In all honesty, they shouldn't even have the right to maintain an army. I have never seen a democratic nation behave the way they do. They are apartheid-inducing, genocidal maniacs.
 


They are going to destroy the last barely functioning hospital in the north.
 
Idxomer said:
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I'm not sure what his point is? "Allegedly"? The purpose of all of those pieces of weaponry are defense against incoming mortar shells, drones, rockets, etc. Is the pier supposed to be completely undefended? Maybe his English isn't great, but it seems like he has a problem with the weapons being there.
 
Sir Matt said:
I'm not sure what his point is? "Allegedly"? The purpose of all of those pieces of weaponry are defense against incoming mortar shells, drones, rockets, etc. Is the pier supposed to be completely undefended? Maybe his English isn't great, but it seems like he has a problem with the weapons being there.
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He has a problem with the pier being there.
 
Sir Matt said:
I'm not sure what his point is? "Allegedly"? The purpose of all of those pieces of weaponry are defense against incoming mortar shells, drones, rockets, etc. Is the pier supposed to be completely undefended? Maybe his English isn't great, but it seems like he has a problem with the weapons being there.
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Why woudn't he? an extra occupying country on top of the original one. It's like a cake above a cake.
 
Giggsyking said:
Why woudn't he? an extra occupying country on top of the original one. It's like a cake above a cake.
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Protecting the pier and the people working on it seems entirely reasonable. The weapon systems there have no offensive capability and hopefully ensure that aid flows freely. The alternative is an undefended pier that gets attacked by Hamas or some other group and leads to military response by the US and others (in addition to the end of aid).
 
Sir Matt said:
Protecting the pier and the people working on it seems entirely reasonable. The weapon systems there have no offensive capability and hopefully ensure that aid flows freely. The alternative is an undefended pier that gets attacked by Hamas or some other group and leads to military response by the US and others (in addition to the end of aid).
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Why would they want a pier built by the rubble of their destroyed homes, the bodies of their family members, friends and loved ones. This pier is not to help the people of Gaza, it is to control them. Open the fecking border if you want to help them, stop the fecking terrorist settlers from attacking the trucks, if you want to help them.
 
The easiest and most humane thing would be for the US to reign in the leash instead of arming and prolonging the war and building this bs pier.

It's like a psychopathic abuser, I'll beat the sh!t out of you but it's all OK because I'll buy some groceries for you tonight.
 
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