Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
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It's not removed. Twitter doesn't allow sharing posts that have sensitive photos on other platforms.
I've only scratched the surface with Irving but according to Wikipedia (I know) he was once considered a very good historian, wasn't he? I can obviously see how praising him any time in the last 40 years could be problematic, so I can see where you guys are coming from. I don't think he was promoting Irving's views though.
Here is Christopher Hitchens defending Irving in 1996:
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/1996/06/hitlers-ghost-christopher-hitchens
He states he is a fascist historian, but also a great historian of fascism. Because of his sympathies with Nazi Germany, Irving actually got access to surviving Nazis for his books that did not speak to other historians.
The Mare's Nest managed to find German sources and research on the V1 and V2 rocket programmes which had eluded other scholars, but Irving still went out of his way to ignore or explain away the slave labour which built the programme.
There is an academic argument that would state that Irving managed to provide new perspectives on Nazi Germany, but to be of historical use you have to selectively read and interpret his work to get around the disturbingly apologetic tone he adopts for Nazi Germany. And that's before the later more overtime Holocaust denial.
Of course, for people without academic or historical training his books can be read as pure propaganda, and if you are in Finkelstein's position as an academic, a throwaway statement praising Irving's historical nous can be very misleading, to say the least.
I remember back to the first hospital bombing and the controversy surrounding it with the Israeli denial. Only for them to go on and bomb 20 more hospitals without anyone batting an eyelid.
Now this. It's like they do it once, deny it in the media and continue to do it again and again without a care in the world.
I think that perhaps Finkelstein aims too much of his stuff at academics when his audience has clearly grown beyond that. I think it's a little harsh to say he was all praise for Irving based on that clip alone (assuming this is the only clip on the matter).
Only pathological liars will say their killing was not deliberate. The sheer evilness in their tone every time you hear an israeli official talk about what they have to do you could have imagined already at the beginning what it was going to look like, slaughter for vengance.
Nothing, if 74% of Israelis think that too little force is being used in Gaza, then the next election will bring not only Netanyahu, but someone worse.
Free the Palestinian children.
I assume you're referring to the Faurisson affair regarding Chomsky? It would be a profound misunderstanding of Chomsky's point, which is a broadly libertarian formal point of logic, if so.
I think you're on dangerous ground intellectually here and pretty close to the "wrong kind of Jew" type of argument.
"Wrong type of jew" is exactly the argument he's making.
There's no intellectual ground in any of his comments. That's exactly what he's doing.
It's the usual smear used against Jewish intellectuals who criticize Israel, particularly Chomsky and Finkelstein who have a Gaza sized target on their back.
I have not visited or clicked on a BBC, ITV, CNN, etc, news article since November. Been getting all my news/info (including the full debunking of Corbyn's anti Semitism claims) from Al Jazeera, TikTok, Twitter, even Linked in. Not great as Al Jaz is sponsored by the murderous Qatar government, but sooo much 'better' than the right wing channels above. That's how low the bar is now.
Good article below from Chris Hedges, I've captured an important TLDR excerpt further below:
https://therealnews.com/hasbara-oct-7-and-israels-propaganda-war
Most of the media, including The New York Times, CNN, MSNBC, and The Intercept have swallowed this propaganda and spat it back to their readers or viewers as fact. Only a handful of publications – Electronic Intifada, The Grayzone, Mondoweiss, and Al Jazeera – Have doggedly exposed the lies spread by Israel’s vast disinformation campaign, often forcing mainstream publications including The New York Times to retract or backpedal on their reporting.
Good article below from Chris Hedges, I've captured an important TLDR excerpt further below:
https://therealnews.com/hasbara-oct-7-and-israels-propaganda-war
Most of the media, including The New York Times, CNN, MSNBC, and The Intercept have swallowed this propaganda and spat it back to their readers or viewers as fact. Only a handful of publications – Electronic Intifada, The Grayzone, Mondoweiss, and Al Jazeera – Have doggedly exposed the lies spread by Israel’s vast disinformation campaign, often forcing mainstream publications including The New York Times to retract or backpedal on their reporting.
There is much more to that. How else would you interpret his words like “jewish run media” or “jewish domination of cultural and economic life”. It is a classic example of antisemitism that Jews do not act as individuals but only as an organized group for the purpose of running the world.
https://www.reuters.com/world/no-ev...ations-says-eu-humanitarian-chief-2024-03-14/
No evidence from Israel to back UNRWA accusations, says EU humanitarian chief
So here we are, no evidence. But it worked, Israel managed to convince the western countries to help them starve the Palestinians, it is a stain in the western world supposed human rights values.
No evidence from Israel to back UNRWA accusations, says EU humanitarian chief
So here we are, no evidence. But it worked, Israel managed to convince the western countries to help them starve the Palestinians, it is a stain in the western world supposed human rights values.
Acute malnutrition has doubled in one month in the north of Gaza strip: UNICEF
https://www.unicef.org/press-releas...has-doubled-one-month-north-gaza-strip-unicef
https://www.unicef.org/press-releas...has-doubled-one-month-north-gaza-strip-unicef
I've not read everything Chomsky has produced - who could? - but I've read enough that I find it very hard to believe that he is antisemitic for a whole variety of reasons. Can you provide any actual quotes, in context, that support this claim?
These false antisemitism claims is actually fueling more of it. Something serious like it shouldn't be weaponised like it has.
I don't think that there's any disagreement here, as I said the same thing here recently.
You said, Israel, really thought funneling money to Hamas will give them protection. When in reality this was not Netanyahus objective, he has done it to increase rift between the Palestinians to prevent the possibility of a two state solution. The two are not connected.
I urge everyone to dissect the antisemitism reports from likes of the CST. The reports are available freely.
Now I don't claim that antisemitism doesn't exist. It absolutely does. So some of the right wing groups see Jews as more of an enemy than other "foreigners".
It's the breakdown of what is classified as antisemitism (and specifically the current rise in antisemitism that is reported currently). Anti Zionism or criticism of Israel online for it current campaign is not imho antisemitism. Neither is the "foreseeing" of antisemitism. What I mean here is schools telling the kids that it's optional to wear school blazers is precautionary and I understand that. But until someone is name called etc is it antisemitism? I would argue no.
Anyone saying "Israel is committing horrible acts" isn't the same as "All Jews are committing horrible acts". You can disagree with the first or agree. The second is antisemitism.
Odd how if you disagree you're threatened with removal of your race. Delegitimised.
It was noted, extensively, by scholars years ago that conflating criticisms of the Israeli state with antisemitism was and is dangerous. Those scholars were maligned but they were absolutely correct. There are legitimate racists who will use Israeli state actions as a trojan horse for their own agenda (many in the American congress, as it goes, who have a dangerous world-view of what should happen before other things do). But Israel is not "Judaism" and "Judaism" is not all of the Semitic.
It's a red herring this time around regardless. It will exist but that's not why the Israeli state is under scrutiny. Lack of education, which has been intentional, because propaganda from the Western nations has framed it so, is also responsible for such things as individual Jewish people being conflated with Israeli state policy. An all or nothing understanding of what is Israel, Judaism, and Semitic.
I clearly stated in recent weeks and days that Netanyahu's main objective in strengthening Hamas (not necessarily through Qatari money, but overall) was to increase that rift. So whether that money served another purpose at the same time does not contradict that at all.
Unless you want to say that that the average Israeli did not care about how cruel the tactic is even if it means the results was to backfire on Israelis. Because the goal was never about peace and quite, it was always about stopping the two state solution. Now tell me, how is stopping the very thing Palestinians are fighting for was going to give Israelis peace and quite? Your statements are contradictory.
As the video above, Ehud Barak said Netanyahu said it in public, it was not a concealed goal for Netanyahu trying to deceive the public.
Did you read the first paragraph of that 2nd quote? I'm a bit confused about where you think thr discrepancy between the posts are?
The average Israeli has not been overly interested in what's happening in Gaza. Netanyahu's intentions were well known, but also, Israeli security agencies tended to claim over the years that giving Gaza incentives - such as money, work permits, etc - will keep them away from terror as they'll have something to lose.
Obviously, I don't meen peace and quiet in is utopian sense, but simply life without terror and rocket fire.
This post is fecking insane. Thank feck Lil' Jon is fighting the Devil, though. The Palestinian oppressed will be delighted, I'm sure.