Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

[langster]

No, the part underlined is not happening. As with all wars, there is terrible suffering among the civilians caught in the fighting and thousands of people have been killed or are being killed. But, Israel is clearly not trying to destroy the people of Gaza.

Civillians are not 'being caught' in the fighting. They are absolutely being targeted again and again and again. Be it by being bombed in refugee camps where they were told they would be safe, or by being starved of food, water and medical supplies or by just being shot in the streets.

On top of all that the arresting and indefinite imprisonment of Palestinians and the continued land grabs by Israeli settlers in Gaza and the West Bank or just the simple stealing of Palestinians homes as well. That has been going on for the last 75 years or more. The sole intention is to make the entire region a single state of Israel. That's the whole reason Hamas were formed in the first place and the whole reason behind everything Netenyahu has done in the past and is doing now.

The worst part of it all is dozens upon dozens of high ranking Israeli Politicians, government officials, military leaders and Netenyahu himself have all said it and have been saying it for years and yet you still say that it's unintentional and innocent civilians are just being caught in the fighting. I just can't see how anyone can actually think that, especially now.

 

[MDFC Manager]

5 Palestinians have been killed in the West Bank today, death toll is up to 467 since the beginning of the year.

Wonder what the appropriate and proportional response from West Bank should be. Let's say, 10x with 90% civilian Israelis?

 

[TheRedHearted]

"Not a genocide".

No where near what a genocide entails. Israel’s attacks are in direct response to the direct bombings of civilians in their home during a holiday on October 7th. There was a cease fire issued in February, and the cowards Hamas waited till a holiday to send bombs into a fight that they could have never won. Why did they do it? Because Iran made sure it would happen..

Since October 7th there has been (last I heard) 73 attacks on United States military strong points in the Middle East, also strategized by Iran.

So, if you think Palestinian lives aren’t being used as political tools by Iran and Hamas, you’re mistaken.

Hamas killed 4,217 Palestinian civilians during the second antifada, and they’ve been hiding behind them ever since.

All these attacks come at the exact same time Iran just got their first nuclear weapon.

they’ve made it clear for years they’re stance on Israel.

Resolution 181 was the United Nations decree to create a Jewish safe haven in the world, after the genocide of 6 million Jews.

“Approximately 9.5 million Jews lived in Europe in 1933, the year Hitler came to power. This number represented 1.7% of Europe's total population and more than 60 percent of the world's Jewish population. By 1945, most European Jews—2 out of every 3—had been killed.”

Resolution 181 isn’t a thousand year old claim. It’s not a biblical claim to the land. It’s the result of a group of many countries coming together to decide a solution to a genocide.

Israel has never bombed Germany for revenge. In history, people and civilizations search for peace without the way Hamas and previous leaders have.

I personally wouldn’t be bombing Palestine at the moment. I would have sent special forces in numerous locations along the border along with IAF along numerous strongpoints to create perimeters and isolate Hamas.
I don’t agree with any bombings or killings of the civiiians ever. The same part of the Bible that refers to where Israel is refers to killing innocent and how god won’t forgive it.

 

[entropy]

you know you’ve fecked up when you’re line of defense is posting definitions.

 

[Raoul]

WASHINGTON—Israel has assembled a system of large pumps it could use to flood Hamas’s vast network of tunnels under the Gaza Strip with seawater, a tactic that could destroy the tunnels and drive the fighters from their underground refuge but also threaten Gaza’s water supply, U.S. officials said.
The Israel Defense Forces finished assembling large seawater pumps roughly one mile north of the Al-Shati refugee camp around the middle of last month. Each of at least five pumps can draw water from the Mediterranean Sea and move thousands of cubic meters of water per hour into the tunnels, flooding them within weeks.

 

[4bars]

No where near what a genocide entails. Israel’s attacks are in direct response to the direct bombings of civilians in their home during a holiday on October 7th. There was a cease fire issued in February, and the cowards Hamas waited till a holiday to send bombs into a fight that they could have never won. Why did they do it? Because Iran made sure it would happen..

Since October 7th there has been (last I heard) 73 attacks on United States military strong points in the Middle East, also strategized by Iran.

So, if you think Palestinian lives aren’t being used as political tools by Iran and Hamas, you’re mistaken.

Hamas killed 4,217 Palestinian civilians during the second antifada, and they’ve been hiding behind them ever since.

All these attacks come at the exact same time Iran just got their first nuclear weapon.

they’ve made it clear for years they’re stance on Israel.

Resolution 181 was the United Nations decree to create a Jewish safe haven in the world, after the genocide of 6 million Jews.

“Approximately 9.5 million Jews lived in Europe in 1933, the year Hitler came to power. This number represented 1.7% of Europe's total population and more than 60 percent of the world's Jewish population. By 1945, most European Jews—2 out of every 3—had been killed.”

Resolution 181 isn’t a thousand year old claim. It’s not a biblical claim to the land. It’s the result of a group of many countries coming together to decide a solution to a genocide.

Israel has never bombed Germany for revenge. In history, people and civilizations search for peace without the way Hamas and previous leaders have.

I personally wouldn’t be bombing Palestine at the moment. I would have sent special forces in numerous locations along the border along with IAF along numerous strongpoints to create perimeters and isolate Hamas.
I don’t agree with any bombings or killings of the civiiians ever. The same part of the Bible that refers to where Israel is refers to killing innocent and how god won’t forgive it.

What I don't understand is that they had to create a jewish heaven after the holocaust in Palestine and the same resolution was not adopted to give half the US/canada to the first nations or half australia to aborigines after the genocide and ethnic cleansing that they suffered on the XVIII - XX century.

Well, obviously I am being facetious. I understand very well. It is very easy gifting half the country in middle east while not doing the same in yours, because obviously is very easy giving what is not yours. And on doing so, killing thousands and displacing millions creating another genocide as a "gift" to the ones that suffered a genocide. And these ethnoreligious group that suffered the genocide had no qualms to inflict that genocide after only 3 years suffering it. You can't make this shit up

I repeat, I understand, but lets not pretend that it was for a just cause and not to carve an enclave in the middle east that would serve a purpose of domination for the west and then hide behind UN resolutions asked to be respected and then not respecting the ones that for example forbid creating settlements in the WB

 

[TheRedHearted]

What I don't understand is that they had to create a jewish heaven after the holocaust in Palestine and the same resolution was not adopted to give half the US/canada to the first nations or half australia to aborigines after the genocide and ethnic cleansing that they suffered on the XVIII - XX century.

Well, obviously I am being facetious. I understand very well. It is very easy gifting half the country in middle east while not doing the same in yours, because obviously is very easy giving what is not yours. And on doing so, killing thousands and displacing millions creating another genocide as a "gift" to the ones that suffered a genocide. And these ethnoreligious group that suffered the genocide had no qualms to inflict that genocide after only 3 years suffering it. You can't make this shit up

I repeat, I understand, but lets not pretend that it was for a just cause and not to carve an enclave in the middle east that would serve a purpose of domination for the west and then hide behind UN resolutions asked to be respected and then not respecting the ones that for example forbid creating settlements in the WB

Well, you’re wrong on one of your first accounts.

the majority of former Palestine became Jordan. They don’t fight for those lands, no one has a good reason why not. The remainder of what was left (the smallest portion) was proposed to be 51 or 53 percent Jewish.

youre wrong on another point, no one was displaced till the Palestinians decided a war was more Just then peace l.

additionally the Palestinian leader and people supported Hitler. They shook his hand and announced “death to Jews.”

hitler lost the war, and his supporter were subject to scrutiny.

 

[4bars]

Well, you’re wrong on one of your first accounts.

the majority of former Palestine became Jordan. They don’t fight for those lands, no one has a good reason why not. The remainder of what was left (the smallest portion) was proposed to be 51 or 53 percent Jewish.

youre wrong on another point, no one was displaced till the Palestinians decided a war was more Just then peace l.

additionally the Palestinian leader and people supported Hitler. They shook his hand and announced “death to Jews.”

hitler lost the war, and his supporter were subject to scrutiny.

1st: the majority of former Palestine didn't need to become Jordan if no one (UN) had to decide on their palestine soverignity and was attacked in 1948. If a referendum in the territories of palestine that were supposed to become Israel were about to happen and that population decided on their own (jews and arabs and christians and whoever) to become Israel I would be the first to support it even if the rest of palestine would say no. But UN had no right to decide anything on behalf of others

2nd: Tell the US canada and any other country in the world if an external power would decide for them to split the country to give it to a minority in exchange for peace (that they already had) if they would not fight.

3rd: Additionally, you know who supported Nazis and the killings of jews? the germans. a taaaad more than the palestinians. Sould they give half germany for the jews? Should spain do the same when they killed jews throughout history? like probably all european countries at some point? should UK as king George VI was a nazi sympathizer that put pressure to avoid jews leaving to germany through the embassy?

Hitler lost the war, not palestine and scrutiny doesnt equal to take hard the country FFS. really that warrranted half palestine? then what warranted Italy and Japan that were allies with germany? or germany itself or francoist Spain?

 

[Adisa]

Genocide is the goal here. Pretty ironic if you ask me.

 

[africanspur]

Truce probably collapsed over refusal to free female hostages - US

A week-long truce between Israel and Hamas probably fell apart because Hamas refused to free female hostages, according to US state department spokesman Matthew Miller.
"It seems one of the reasons they don't want to turn women over that they've been holding hostage and the reason this pause fell apart is they don't want those women to be able to talk about what happened to them during their time in custody."

Miller told journalists that the group did not want the women to speak publicly about sexual violence and that the US government had “no reason to doubt” reports of rape.

But Miller provided no evidence to support his claim and also said that he could not say "with a definitive assessment that that is the case".

I'm slightly confused here. Have Hamas not already released dozens of female hostages?

 

[Adisa]

"Hamas are the barrier to peace".

 

[nickm]

How is colonialism and genocide weighted with new meaning when Jews are involved?

These are words used to try to end an argument, not illuminate it.

We've argued about whether it is a genocide or not, I'm not going to repeat it.

But 'colonial' is the application of a word designed to describe a thing, to something that's different in important ways, and it is done to paint away the nuances, differences and context at the time - IMO - in order to weaken the legitimacy of Israel's founding.

 

[VivaObertan]

Killing is certainly an appropriate adjective to use. Genocide is not.

It’s Genocide and the world should be doing so much more to stop it.

 

[TheRedHearted]

1st: the majority of former Palestine didn't need to become Jordan if no one (UN) had to decide on their palestine soverignity and was attacked in 1948. If a referendum in the territories of palestine that were supposed to become Israel were about to happen and that population decided on their own (jews and arabs and christians and whoever) to become Israel I would be the first to support it even if the rest of palestine would say no. But UN had no right to decide anything on behalf of others

2nd: Tell the US canada and any other country in the world if an external power would decide for them to split the country to give it to a minority in exchange for peace (that they already had) if they would not fight.

3rd: Additionally, you know who supported Nazis and the killings of jews? the germans. a taaaad more than the palestinians. Sould they give half germany for the jews? Should spain do the same when they killed jews throughout history? like probably all european countries at some point? should UK as king George VI was a nazi sympathizer that put pressure to avoid jews leaving to germany through the embassy?

Hitler lost the war, not palestine and scrutiny doesnt equal to take hard the country FFS. really that warrranted half palestine? then what warranted Italy and Japan that were allies with germany? or germany itself or francoist Spain?

a)”UN had no right to decide anything on behalf of others”
Well yes they did. The British mandate ended.. Palestine could have fought against their British mandate, ask their genocidal friend and buddy Adolf Hitler to help them do so, but no.
So the group of nations known as the United Nations had every single right to decide what happened with a territory that already consisted of many Jews and wasn’t even its own state to create a Jewish state and an Arab staye. Not solely a Jewish state.

“ On November 29, 1947, the United Nations voted for the partition of the British Mandate of Palestine, calling for the formation of a Jewish state and an Arab state. The result? Jews accepted the deal, but Arabs rejected it.”


“Tell the US canada and any other country in the world if an external power would decide for them to split the country to give it to a minority in exchange for peace (that they already had) if they would not fight”

Once again, false. The majority if the country was absorbed by Jordan.

64 percent to jordan
Remaining 36 percent would be 56.47 percent Jewish, and 43.53 percent Muslim.
So 56.47 percent is roughly 19.5 percent of the 100 percent of Palestine.(if anyone could help me on the exact 56.47 percent of 36 is, I tried to compute it)

so let’s make it clear - roughly 19.5 percent is not half.
Roughly 19.5 percent is not half.

the 64 percent that went to Jordan was ruled under the King of

c)

“Additionally, you know who supported Nazis and the killings of jews? the germans. a taaaad more than the palestinians. Sould they give half germany for the jews? Should spain do the same when they killed jews throughout history? like probably all european countries at some point? should UK as king George VI was a nazi sympathizer that put pressure to avoid jews leaving to germany through the embassy?”

if my family was massacred in a land I wouldn’t want to build my safe haven over the land.

so you admit thay probably all European countries killed Jews at some point.
What does that tell you?

So I’ll address your argument.

there was discussion as to where Israel would best be suited.

Argentina or the land that Israel exists today.

argentina did not support Hitler during World War II.
It was decided that the land near Jerusalem was best for the people that just had 6 million slaughtered.

6 million.
There are roughly 1.7 million Muslims living in Israel today, 13 percent of the parliament is Muslim.

(United States has 1 percent, no idea about U.K.).

Anyway I responded to every single one of your points.

“Hitler lost the war, not palestine and scrutiny doesnt equal to take hard the country FFS. really that warrranted half palestine? then what warranted Italy and Japan that were allies with germany? or germany itself or francoist Spain?”

the Jewish people didn’t want Japan or France or Spain, the many African Jews such as my family also went to Israel. It was the preferred option

 

[TheRedHearted]

Genocide is the goal here. Pretty ironic if you ask me.

If genocide is the goal Israel’s doing a poor job, 2,000,000 Palestinians, how many dead is it now? 10,000? Places being bombed that are Hamas strongholds.

 

[The Corinthian]

a)”UN had no right to decide anything on behalf of others”
Well yes they did. The British mandate ended.. Palestine could have fought against their British mandate, ask their genocidal friend and buddy Adolf Hitler to help them do so, but no.
So the group of nations known as the United Nations had every single right to decide what happened with a territory that already consisted of many Jews and wasn’t even its own state to create a Jewish state and an Arab staye. Not solely a Jewish state.

“ On November 29, 1947, the United Nations voted for the partition of the British Mandate of Palestine, calling for the formation of a Jewish state and an Arab state. The result? Jews accepted the deal, but Arabs rejected it.”


“Tell the US canada and any other country in the world if an external power would decide for them to split the country to give it to a minority in exchange for peace (that they already had) if they would not fight”

Once again, false. The majority if the country was absorbed by Jordan.

64 percent to jordan
Remaining 36 percent would be 56.47 percent Jewish, and 43.53 percent Muslim.
So 56.47 percent is roughly 19.5 percent of the 100 percent of Palestine.(if anyone could help me on the exact 56.47 percent of 36 is, I tried to compute it)

so let’s make it clear - roughly 19.5 percent is not half.
Roughly 19.5 percent is not half.

the 64 percent that went to Jordan was ruled under the King of

c)

“Additionally, you know who supported Nazis and the killings of jews? the germans. a taaaad more than the palestinians. Sould they give half germany for the jews? Should spain do the same when they killed jews throughout history? like probably all european countries at some point? should UK as king George VI was a nazi sympathizer that put pressure to avoid jews leaving to germany through the embassy?”

if my family was massacred in a land I wouldn’t want to build my safe haven over the land.

so you admit thay probably all European countries killed Jews at some point.
What does that tell you?

So I’ll address your argument.

there was discussion as to where Israel would best be suited.

Argentina or the land that Israel exists today.

argentina did not support Hitler during World War II.
It was decided that the land near Jerusalem was best for the people that just had 6 million slaughtered.

6 million.
There are roughly 1.7 million Muslims living in Israel today, 13 percent of the parliament is Muslim.

(United States has 1 percent, no idea about U.K.).

Anyway I responded to every single one of your points.

“Hitler lost the war, not palestine and scrutiny doesnt equal to take hard the country FFS. really that warrranted half palestine? then what warranted Italy and Japan that were allies with germany? or germany itself or francoist Spain?”

the Jewish people didn’t want Japan or France or Spain, the many African Jews such as my family also went to Israel. It was the preferred option

This idea that the Mufti of Jerusalem held considerable power is way off the mark and has been discussed to death earlier in the thread. He held no significant influence or power.

Here's what I wrote earlier about him:
Amin Al Husseinis power and influence gets overstated time and time again. He had literally zero influence on Hitler and zero influence on Nazi policy. We forget that Hitler also hated Arabs, referring to them in derogatory terms and just used Al Hussein’s as a tool. There were Palestinian brigades that fought on the side of the Allies in WW2. Furthermore, Al Hussein’s was living in exile (not even in Palestine!) from 1937 to 1945, then was arrested in 1946 and fled to Egypt in 1947.

 

[The Corinthian]

Mizrachi is a relatively new term, my understanding is that it wasn’t in use much at all before 1948.

Strictly speaking Sephardim refers to those Jews forced out of 15th and 16th Spain, who were subsequently dispersed around the Mediterranean and in particular North Africa and the Ottoman Empire. But it also came to be used as a catch-all term for all Jews of North Africa and the Arab Middle East until Mizrachi - literally “easterner” - came to be more commonly used.

Thank you.

 

[Kaos]

If genocide is the goal Israel’s doing a poor job, 2,000,000 Palestinians, how many dead is it now? 10,000? Places being bombed that are Hamas strongholds.

Its 15,000 actually, and counting. But who cares about an odd 5k discrepancy, they're all just numbers anyway. And if we're counting refugee camps, housing blocks and churches as Hamas strongholds, then practically all of Gaza is a Hamas stronghold it seems.

This whole 'its not genocide because they've 'only' killed thousands' line of reasoning is painfully obtuse as well. Israel aren't stupid, they know it would be horrendous optics if they slaughtered a million Palestinians, which is something not even the US could absolve them of. So instead they're resorting to essentially ethnically cleansing the Palestinians, 'moving the lawn' by killing thousands, ensuring almost a million are displaced, and causing so much infrastructural damage, Gaza will essentially remain inhabitable for years.

 

[TheRedHearted]

Mizrachi is a relatively new term, my understanding is that it wasn’t in use much at all before 1948.

Strictly speaking Sephardim refers to those Jews forced out of 15th and 16th Spain, who were subsequently dispersed around the Mediterranean and in particular North Africa and the Ottoman Empire. But it also came to be used as a catch-all term for all Jews of North Africa and the Arab Middle East until Mizrachi - literally “easterner” - came to be more commonly used.

Strictly speaking it’s Jews who were from the Iberian peninsula, so it refers to Portugal as well.
[

Its 15,000 actually, and counting. But who cares about an odd 5k discrepancy, they're all just numbers anyway. And if we're counting refugee camps, housing blocks and churches as Hamas strongholds, then practically all of Gaza is a Hamas stronghold it seems.

This whole 'its not genocide because they've 'only' killed thousands' line of reasoning is painfully obtuse as well. Israel aren't stupid, they know it would be horrendous optics if they slaughtered a million Palestinians, which is something not even the US could absolve them of. So instead they're resorting to essentially ethnically cleansing the Palestinians, 'moving the lawn' by killing thousands, ensuring almost a million are displaced, and causing so much infrastructural damage, Gaza will essentially remain inhabitable for years.

‘My mistake on the 5,000. I didn’t know

Israel waged war for the first time in what is it- 50 years. Everyone knew this was going to be a heavy handed attack on Hamas. I wish there weren’t bombs and instead special forces combine with IAF infiltration along numerous parts of Palestine. I wish no civilians were killed as an innocent should never die.

look at the 70 plus attacks on United States military locations in the region to understand this is an Iran attack and once again Hamas and Iran has used Palestinian civilians as a spark for conflict.

Also Hamas killed 4,217 Palestinians when they took power in the second antifada.
Would you refer that as part of their genocide?

 

[Idxomer]

 

[Kaos]

‘My mistake on the 5,000. I didn’t know

Israel waged war for the first time in what is it- 50 years. Everyone knew this was going to be a heavy handed attack on Hamas. I wish there weren’t bombs and instead special forces combine with IAF infiltration along numerous parts of Palestine. I wish no civilians were killed as an innocent should never die.

look at the 70 plus attacks on United States military locations in the region to understand this is an Iran attack and once again Hamas and Iran has used Palestinian civilians as a spark for conflict.

Yeah and I wish Israel didn't resort to a criminally disproportionate response, I wish they didn't bomb hospitals and refugee camps, I wish they didn't illegally cut off power, water and essential supplies leading to baby corpses rotting in hospitals, I wish they didn't kill 6000 children. And prior to any of this I wish they didn't occupy the West bank, didn't build illegal settlements and didn't subject Palestinians in the occupied territories to apartheid, and you know what - I wish Netanyahu didn't try to bolster the same Hamas as a means of compromising the Palestinian statehood dream. A whole lot of wishing. The Iranians obviously have malevolent intentions themselves, but let's not pretend Israel's response is one that is appropriate or proportionate. You can argue semantics over definitions all you like but this campaign they're committing is not one befitting of a humanitarian and benevolent nation, but one eager to essentially quash any aspiration of Palestinian statehood by making the situation desperately untenable for them.

Also Hamas killed 4,217 Palestinians when they took power in the second antifada.
Would you refer that as part of their genocide?

Are you just making up stuff now? And even if that were true (I'll be eagerly awaiting your source for that), you're essentially equating Israel with Hamas.

 

[Tibs]

Are you just making up stuff now? And even if that were true (I'll be eagerly awaiting your source for that), you're essentially equating Israel with Hamas.

Israel are far worse than Hamas...they're literally showing the world that with their lies, theft, murder, genocide and ethnic cleansing.

 

[Giggsyking]

No, the part underlined is not happening. As with all wars, there is terrible suffering among the civilians caught in the fighting and thousands of people have been killed or are being killed. But, Israel is clearly not trying to destroy the people of Gaza.

So did Hamas say. But.....

 

[jadaba]

If genocide is the goal Israel’s doing a poor job, 2,000,000 Palestinians, how many dead is it now? 10,000? Places being bombed that are Hamas strongholds.

A genocide doesn't need to have millions of people killed in order to be a genocide. The Bosnian genocide was the killing of 8,000 people. The Bosnian genocide was also justified by its perpetrators as a response to the killing of civilians by Bosniaks.

No where near what a genocide entails. Israel’s attacks are in direct response to the direct bombings of civilians in their home during a holiday on October 7th. There was a cease fire issued in February, and the cowards Hamas waited till a holiday to send bombs into a fight that they could have never won. Why did they do it? Because Iran made sure it would happen..

Since October 7th there has been (last I heard) 73 attacks on United States military strong points in the Middle East, also strategized by Iran.

So, if you think Palestinian lives aren’t being used as political tools by Iran and Hamas, you’re mistaken.

Hamas killed 4,217 Palestinian civilians during the second antifada, and they’ve been hiding behind them ever since.

All these attacks come at the exact same time Iran just got their first nuclear weapon.

they’ve made it clear for years they’re stance on Israel.

Resolution 181 was the United Nations decree to create a Jewish safe haven in the world, after the genocide of 6 million Jews.

“Approximately 9.5 million Jews lived in Europe in 1933, the year Hitler came to power. This number represented 1.7% of Europe's total population and more than 60 percent of the world's Jewish population. By 1945, most European Jews—2 out of every 3—had been killed.”

Resolution 181 isn’t a thousand year old claim. It’s not a biblical claim to the land. It’s the result of a group of many countries coming together to decide a solution to a genocide.

Israel has never bombed Germany for revenge. In history, people and civilizations search for peace without the way Hamas and previous leaders have.

I personally wouldn’t be bombing Palestine at the moment. I would have sent special forces in numerous locations along the border along with IAF along numerous strongpoints to create perimeters and isolate Hamas.
I don’t agree with any bombings or killings of the civiiians ever. The same part of the Bible that refers to where Israel is refers to killing innocent and how god won’t forgive it.

There have been multiple indications that Iran was completely unaware of the 7th October attack and the general consensus is that it was totally blindsided by it, to the extent it was angered that Hamas carried out such a significant act without consulting it. The subsequent proxy attacks on US bases are obviously higher than what has been taking place in the past few years, but are measly symbolic acts rather than anything akin to declarations of war or an escalation. There is frankly nothing to indicate that this was engineered by Iran.

 

[2cents]

Strictly speaking it’s Jews who were from the Iberian peninsula, so it refers to Portugal as well.

Yes apologies, my mistake.

 

[2mufc0]

It’s the colonial powers. Israel is just the last settler colonial project still standing.

Colonialism never ended for a lot of the world, it just became more sophisticated, especially in the middle east, these countries are colonised through the economic system and keeping sub servient dictators in power. Esp those in oil rich states where colonial powers have/had massive stakes and influence in those sectors and made dependent on these very colonial powers for security .

 

[maniak]

No, the part underlined is not happening. As with all wars, there is terrible suffering among the civilians caught in the fighting and thousands of people have been killed or are being killed. But, Israel is clearly not trying to destroy the people of Gaza.

When they bomb apartment blocks, schools, hospitals, refugee camps, etc, they are literally trying to kill the people there, knowing full well they are civilians. These thousands of dead children weren't caught in the crossfire, they were deliberately targeted. It's quite literally the definition posted and it amazes me you can't see it.

 

[Belisarius]

I'm slightly confused here. Have Hamas not already released dozens of female hostages?

I think the claim they are making is that Hamas released the female hostages who had been (reasonably) well treated in captivity and they don't want to release the remaining female hostages because they were not well treated.

 

[Mike Smalling]

Incredible what Israel are getting away with. History will not remember the US, EU and the rest of the western world kindly after this. At least I hope not.

 

[jadaba]

I think the claim they are making is that Hamas released the female hostages who had been (reasonably) well treated in captivity and they don't want to release the remaining female hostages because they were not well treated.

A few days ago I recall reading claims that the remaining female prisoners were IDF soldiers. Does anyone happen to have a source with a proper breakdown of who the remaining (female) captives are?

 

[Tibs]

Incredible what Israel are getting away with. History will not remember the US, EU and the rest of the western world kindly after this. At least I hope not.

They're worse than Hamas, Chris

 

[Idxomer]

The Biden administration continues acting as the ministry of propaganda for Israel.

 

[Raoul]

Quite remarkable that they've managed to get into Khan Yunis so quickly.

 

[VorZakone]

The Biden administration continues acting as the ministry of propaganda for Israel.

So you have evidence to the contrary?

 

[Tibs]

So you have evidence to the contrary?

Normally the person/group making the accusation needs the proof to back up their claims

 

[Idxomer]

Normally the person/group making the accusation need to proof to back up their claims

And officials like him shouldn't make this type of statement on things they don't know for a fact or can't make definitive assessments about.

 

[VorZakone]

Normally the person/group making the accusation needs the proof to back up their claims

So just say that then rather than overcorrecting and suggesting anything coming from the Biden administration is propaganda.

 

[4bars]

a)”UN had no right to decide anything on behalf of others”
Well yes they did. The British mandate ended.. Palestine could have fought against their British mandate, ask their genocidal friend and buddy Adolf Hitler to help them do so, but no.
So the group of nations known as the United Nations had every single right to decide what happened with a territory that already consisted of many Jews and wasn’t even its own state to create a Jewish state and an Arab staye. Not solely a Jewish state.

“ On November 29, 1947, the United Nations voted for the partition of the British Mandate of Palestine, calling for the formation of a Jewish state and an Arab state. The result? Jews accepted the deal, but Arabs rejected it.”

Had 0 rights. Many Jews is not the majority. And definitely you don't give 55% of the land to precisely to the minority.

“Tell the US canada and any other country in the world if an external power would decide for them to split the country to give it to a minority in exchange for peace (that they already had) if they would not fight”

Once again, false. The majority if the country was absorbed by Jordan.

64 percent to jordan
Remaining 36 percent would be 56.47 percent Jewish, and 43.53 percent Muslim.
So 56.47 percent is roughly 19.5 percent of the 100 percent of Palestine.(if anyone could help me on the exact 56.47 percent of 36 is, I tried to compute it)

so let’s make it clear - roughly 19.5 percent is not half.
Roughly 19.5 percent is not half.

the 64 percent that went to Jordan was ruled under the King of

Why it was absorbed by Jordan? because of the UN resolution that cause the war. Again, Jewish population that was born in palestine by the end of the XIX century was 3% while a 2% was jew immigrant. After the WWI that there were starting to talk of a Israel state there was a massive immigration in the 20s. By 1948, 30% were jews but most likely only around the total 10% were born in the country. So you are giving 55% of a country to a 30% of the population that most of them are born in europe. Just because

c)

“Additionally, you know who supported Nazis and the killings of jews? the germans. a taaaad more than the palestinians. Sould they give half germany for the jews? Should spain do the same when they killed jews throughout history? like probably all european countries at some point? should UK as king George VI was a nazi sympathizer that put pressure to avoid jews leaving to germany through the embassy?”

if my family was massacred in a land I wouldn’t want to build my safe haven over the land.

so you admit thay probably all European countries killed Jews at some point.
What does that tell you?

So I’ll address your argument.

there was discussion as to where Israel would best be suited.

Argentina or the land that Israel exists today.

argentina did not support Hitler during World War II.
It was decided that the land near Jerusalem was best for the people that just had 6 million slaughtered.

6 million.
There are roughly 1.7 million Muslims living in Israel today, 13 percent of the parliament is Muslim.

(United States has 1 percent, no idea about U.K.).

Anyway I responded to every single one of your points.

“Hitler lost the war, not palestine and scrutiny doesnt equal to take hard the country FFS. really that warrranted half palestine? then what warranted Italy and Japan that were allies with germany? or germany itself or francoist Spain?”

the Jewish people didn’t want Japan or France or Spain, the many African Jews such as my family also went to Israel. It was the preferred option

So yes. It was the preferred option for jews. But if their preferred option would be Germany, Spain or any other country the UN would not gift them half of that countries. Not even 1%. Argentina? do you even think that that was a possibility with an emergent power as Argentina was? give me a break

But anyway, it was what jews wanted. What about what the arabs wanted? What about the ancestral arabs that were living there and they were killed and pushed in the Nakba, killing and raping them? by the same people that just suffered the holocaust till 3 years prior? What does that tell you?

On the " so you admit thay probably all European countries killed Jews at some point.
What does that tell you?"

What to you mean "admit" like you got me in saying something that I would not like to admit? Jews had been prosecuted and gettoed during the whole history for many countries probably all around the mediterranian area and europes. But so all many others and they are not gifted land, specially for the UN


Now, all these historical reasons are irrelevant. Israel exist and has to continue to exist as I see it. We have to look into the future and Israel is the evil part here. They are causing ethnic cleansing for decades. Apartheid to their own population, not only in palestine. Festering a situation that perpetuates the likes of Hamas. And now they are perpetrating one of the biggest slaugther of civilians in the XXI and the biggest of a democracy in a short span of time. Meanwhile we have the WB that if the UN has aaaaaalll the right in Israel's opinion to decide on Palestine/Israel distribution in 1947, seems that UN doesn't have aaaaall the right when they decided that Israel can't build illegal settlements

 

[4bars]

Incredible what Israel are getting away with. History will not remember the US, EU and the rest of the western world kindly after this. At least I hope not.

In 50 years it will be a oopsie in history books another one among all the big pile of historical oopsies the US and EU did.

 

[berbatrick]

So just say that then rather than overcorrecting and suggesting anything coming from the Biden administration is propaganda.

Wouldn't the released women say a word about it, if others around them were raped as hostages? They suggested they were held together in groups and talked among each other freely.

And almost by definition something coming from the arms supplier and biggest diplomatic backer of one side is propaganda (which doesn't mean it's false of course). Will you take Iranian statements at face value?