Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

MSNBC do have decent anchors. The Israeli leader is going all Putin “denazification” on the Palestinians. (I think she is the one who once made an election add with “Fascism smells good”..)

 
Raoul said:
Looks like fighting is resuming since Hamas ran out of women and children to give up (which were the parameters of the original deal)



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This says the opposite:

“An Israeli source confirms: a new list of 10 abductees has been received that meets the conditions”

 
Pintu said:
MSNBC do have decent anchors. The Israeli leader is going all Putin “denazification” on the Palestinians. (I think she is the one who once made an election add with “Fascism smells good”..)

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This is in sync with what Bennett has been saying. Israel removes Hamas from Gaza, maintains the security perimeter, creates an interim "technocratic" (non-religous) government to govern Gaza etc. Its also roughly what Netanyahu has been floating (specifically the security perimeter bit).

 
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The last two pages are some pretty good indicators why posting tweets is not the best idea. So much misinformation, and forums like this are pushing it about.
 
Raoul said:
This is in sync with what Bennett has been saying. Israel removes Hamas from Gaza, maintains the security perimeter, creates an interim "technocratic" (non-religous) government to govern Gaza etc. Its also roughly what Netanyahu has been floating (specifically the security perimeter bit).

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'denazify' hmm.. where have I heard his before!
 
Raoul said:
This is in sync with what Bennett has been saying. Israel removes Hamas from Gaza, maintains the security perimeter, creates an interim "technocratic" (non-religous) government to govern Gaza etc. Its also roughly what Netanyahu has been floating (specifically the security perimeter bit).

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They should also be pushed to rebuild the infrastructure they've destroyed. Wondering if there is a $ estimate to what's already reduced to rubble.
 
Pintu said:
MSNBC do have decent anchors. The Israeli leader is going all Putin “denazification” on the Palestinians. (I think she is the one who once made an election add with “Fascism smells good”..)

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Chris Hayes is quite good.

Losing Rachel Maddow down to one night was a disappointment.
 
Giggsy PO said:
Where are your tweets?

Three people killed and 13 injured in Jerusalem shooting
Two attackers, reportedly brothers from East Jerusalem, killed at scene, after they opened fire on people at a bus stop

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/30/jerusalem-bus-stop-shooting-attack-killed-injured

Edit: I see, you are all in Kissinger thread now, having orgies. Disgusting.
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An interesting irony and moral standpoinr in this considering not a single one of your posts in this thread have referenced Palestinian suffering or deaths at all? Definitely lots of calling other people disgusting though.
 
africanspur said:
An interesting irony and moral standpoinr in this considering not a single one of your posts in this thread have referenced Palestinian suffering or deaths at all? Definitely lots of calling other people disgusting though.
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Who are you to pass personal moral judgements?

I have posted plenty of sources of highly educated people who provide balanced view (like Harrari, Zizek etc.), which includes suffering of Palestinians.

What is is this a Pro-Palestinian rally thread? But you poeple like to gang up on minority position here. Thankfully, there are some rules and mods do a very good job. Otherwise I am afraid what this thread would look like.

And yes, celebratory party of death of an individual is disgusting. Utterly disgusting. Maybe even some e-candy were handed out. This is your irony and moral standpoint.
 
Giggsy PO said:
And yes, celebratory party of death of an individual is disgusting. Utterly disgusting. Maybe even some e-candy were handed out. This is your irony and moral standpoint.
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If the hamas big bosses died today, you wouldn't celebrate?
 
Giggsy PO said:
Who are you to pass personal moral judgements?

I have posted plenty of sources of highly educated people who provide balanced view (like Harrari, Zizek etc.), which includes suffering of Palestinians.

What is is this a Pro-Palestinian rally thread? But you poeple like to gang up on minority position here. Thankfully, there are some rules and mods do a very good job. Otherwise I am afraid what this thread would look like.

And yes, celebratory party of death of an individual is disgusting. Utterly disgusting. Maybe even some e-candy were handed out. This is your irony and moral standpoint.
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I am not passing moral judgements. You are the one passing moral judgement, by asking where people are and calling someone disgusting in every other one of your posts on this thread.

Who said its a Pro-Palestinian rally thread? I'm not sure who 'you people' are or when I've ganged up on people on this thread or elsewhere on this forum? Perhaps you'd like to point out some examples of this?

Who here is celebrating deaths of Israeli individuals? Or perhaps you're talking about the Kissinger thread, where I haven't posted?

What an odd thing to put though. I assume you'll be having a quiet moment of contemplation if Sinwar, Nasrallah or Khameini died tomorrow?
 
africanspur said:
I am not passing moral judgements. You are the one passing moral judgement, by asking where people are and calling someone disgusting in every other one of your posts on this thread.

Who said its a Pro-Palestinian rally thread? I'm not sure who 'you people' are or when I've ganged up on people on this thread or elsewhere on this forum? Perhaps you'd like to point out some examples of this?

Who here is celebrating deaths of Israeli individuals? Or perhaps you're talking about the Kissinger thread, where I haven't posted?

What an odd thing to put though. I assume you'll be having a quiet moment of contemplation if Sinwar, Nasrallah or Khameini died tomorrow?
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You are implying that I am somehow dishonest for pointing out the obvious. If the Jerusalem shootings happened vice verse, the vitriol here would start in seconds. But because it is not, it is ignored for hours, nobody cares (that much).

You are greatly mistaken or don't want to see what is the difference between labeling idea/or position to be disgusting in opposition to placing the label onto the poster.

Are Norman Filkenstein opinions disgusting? Yes they are.
If you ask for Israeli point of view, and someone proposes Filkenstein...is that disgusting? Absolutely. And vile.
Is frivolous using of words like nazis, genocide, ethnic cleansing disgusting? Yes, without a doubt.
Is party dancing because on the day of Henry Kisssinger passing disgusting? Yes.
Is putting equivalence between Henry Kissinger and people you mentioned in the last paragraph disgusting? Yes.

You may fully disagree with above mentioned statements. Fine. No problem. That is your right. As is my right to call disgusting whatever I want as long as it is within the rules (e.g. judge the idea not the person).

The parts you took personally, I apologize for that. I didn't mean you personally. By "you" I meant group of posters here who spread all the things I find disgusting. And lets face it, it is like 90-95% of this thread (again, my estimation, you may disagree).
 
maniak said:
If the hamas big bosses died today, you wouldn't celebrate?
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No. Only sick person celebrates the death of someone.

Would you celebrate the execution of some criminal after due process? No. But you might be satisfied that justice has been done.
 
Giggsy PO said:
You are implying that I am somehow dishonest for pointing out the obvious. If the Jerusalem shootings happened vice verse, the vitriol here would start in seconds. But because it is not, it is ignored for hours, nobody cares (that much).

You are greatly mistaken or don't want to see what is the difference between labeling idea/or position to be disgusting in opposition to placing the label onto the poster.

Are Norman Filkenstein opinions disgusting? Yes they are.
If you ask for Israeli point of view, and someone proposes Filkenstein...is that disgusting? Absolutely. And vile.
Is frivolous using of words like nazis, genocide, ethnic cleansing disgusting? Yes, without a doubt.
Is party dancing because on the day of Henry Kisssinger passing disgusting? Yes.
Is putting equivalence between Henry Kissinger and people you mentioned in the last paragraph disgusting? Yes.

You may fully disagree with above mentioned statements. Fine. No problem. That is your right. As is my right to call disgusting whatever I want as long as it is within the rules (e.g. judge the idea not the person).

The parts you took personally, I apologize for that. I didn't mean you personally. By "you" I meant group of posters here who spread all the things I find disgusting. And lets face it, it is like 90-95% of this thread (again, my estimation, you may disagree).
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I'm not really implying that you're dishonest. Its completely up to you what you choose to post and not post etc. Just as it is the right of other posters to do the same. It is my right for instance to sympathise far more with the Palestinian side, while thinking Hamas' actions were deplorable and feeling genuine remorse and sadness for their victims and the hostages. I was pointing out the irony of your opinion of others for not posting about it, while yourself not posting or indeed really offering any opinion about the various incidents that have happened to the Palestinians, both past and present.

I'm not going to bother getting into the other points but the last point is ridiculous. The equivalence is ridiculous to you because you have a skin in this particular conflict and most likely no skin in the conflicts Kissinger was involved in. A Cambodian, Chilean or Bangladeshi person however may not. Don't confuse your own views with the truth on this point.

And fair enough on the last point, thank you.
 
Oh, I almost forgot probably the most disgusting practice here. Appeal to emotion fallacy by posting pictures/videos of people, especially children suffering. Only one side does it. It is quite sick to make it almost like a competition who will something more horrible.
 
africanspur said:
I'm not really implying that you're dishonest. Its completely up to you what you choose to post and not post etc. Just as it is the right of other posters to do the same. It is my right for instance to sympathise far more with the Palestinian side, while thinking Hamas' actions were deplorable and feeling genuine remorse and sadness for their victims and the hostages. I was pointing out the irony of your opinion of others for not posting about it, while yourself not posting or indeed really offering any opinion about the various incidents that have happened to the Palestinians, both past and present.

I'm not going to bother getting into the other points but the last point is ridiculous. The equivalence is ridiculous to you because you have a skin in this particular conflict and most likely no skin in the conflicts Kissinger was involved in. A Cambodian, Chilean or Bangladeshi person however may not. Don't confuse your own views with the truth on this point.

And fair enough on the last point, thank you.
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Fair enough. I just want to answer the bolded part. You are absolutely correct that it is my view. You might have completely opposite view. But please do not usurp the right to judge what is the truth. I have views and you have truth? Doesnt work that way. Does Niall Ferguson or Jerry Surri also have views? And Christopher Hitchens has truth?
 
Giggsy PO said:
No. Only sick person celebrates the death of someone.
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Not sure how to answer this, I don't have the time to learn binary code.

Meanwhile, we regular humans will keep celebrating when someone evil dies, like we've done since the dawn of time.
 
Giggsy PO said:
Oh, I almost forgot probably the most disgusting practice here. Appeal to emotion fallacy by posting pictures/videos of people, especially children suffering. Only one side does it. It is quite sick to make it almost like a competition who will something more horrible.
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This is generally the way the internet works - people post tweets, animations, memes etc., for emotional reaction. That doesn't mean the underlying issue can't simultaneously also be debated civily.
 
Giggsy PO said:
Where are your tweets?

Three people killed and 13 injured in Jerusalem shooting
Two attackers, reportedly brothers from East Jerusalem, killed at scene, after they opened fire on people at a bus stop

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/30/jerusalem-bus-stop-shooting-attack-killed-injured

Edit: I see, you are all in Kissinger thread now, having orgies. Disgusting.
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Kissinger, for all his genius, was a war criminal and a cynical human piece of filth. So it's not surprising that people aren't particularly sad about his death. Or are you perhaps outraged because you think that the reason why people are rejoicing is because he was jewish? If not, my apologies.

You should stop brandishing the moral card and trying to police the thread while insulting people. Especially when you personally show a particularly one-sided outrage and quite the opinionated view on the conflict. The moral high ground you think you have and this siege mentality of yours can only get you so far and you'll only make yourself unsufferable, without moving your point or the discussion any further.
 
Thorough investigation into Israel's war doctrine:

‘A mass assassination factory’: Inside Israel’s calculated bombing of Gaza
Permissive airstrikes on non-military targets and the use of an artificial intelligence system have enabled the Israeli army to carry out its deadliest war on Gaza, a +972 and Local Call investigation reveals.

"... Compared to previous Israeli assaults on Gaza, the current war...has seen the army significantly expand its bombing of targets that are not distinctly military in nature..."

https://www.972mag.com/mass-assassination-factory-israel-calculated-bombing-gaza/
 
Giggsy PO said:
Fair enough. I just want to answer the bolded part. You are absolutely correct that it is my view. You might have completely opposite view. But please do not usurp the right to judge what is the truth. I have views and you have truth? Doesnt work that way. Does Niall Ferguson or Jerry Surri also have views? And Christopher Hitchens has truth?
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You most likely have the opposite view because I assume you live in a Western country and have never had to deal with Kissinger's actions. His actions have led to the deaths of so many people in those countries above.

I don't know what you're talking about with those people towards the end.
 
2cents said:
Thorough investigation into Israel's war doctrine:

‘A mass assassination factory’: Inside Israel’s calculated bombing of Gaza
Permissive airstrikes on non-military targets and the use of an artificial intelligence system have enabled the Israeli army to carry out its deadliest war on Gaza, a +972 and Local Call investigation reveals.

"... Compared to previous Israeli assaults on Gaza, the current war...has seen the army significantly expand its bombing of targets that are not distinctly military in nature..."

https://www.972mag.com/mass-assassination-factory-israel-calculated-bombing-gaza/
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This was a wild read.

Any kind of restraint, and there were already few before, has been lifted. 15,000 civilian dead which will become many more when the war resumes tomorrow, and the IDF only managed to eliminate about 10% of the Hamas militants.

My main concern is what will happen to the Gazans after it is over. Right now about 45% of the residence buildings have been either damaged or destroyed which means that 1M of them won't have a home to return to. That's not even taking into account the rest of the civilian infrastructures. And the winter is coming.
 
Giggsy PO said:
Oh, I almost forgot probably the most disgusting practice here. Appeal to emotion fallacy by posting pictures/videos of people, especially children suffering. Only one side does it. It is quite sick to make it almost like a competition who will something more horrible.
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When someone brought up the Israeli practice of jailing Palestinian children for throwing rocks at soldiers, you deflected by starting to talk about stabbing children. What would you call that?
 
2cents said:
Thorough investigation into Israel's war doctrine:

‘A mass assassination factory’: Inside Israel’s calculated bombing of Gaza
Permissive airstrikes on non-military targets and the use of an artificial intelligence system have enabled the Israeli army to carry out its deadliest war on Gaza, a +972 and Local Call investigation reveals.

"... Compared to previous Israeli assaults on Gaza, the current war...has seen the army significantly expand its bombing of targets that are not distinctly military in nature..."

https://www.972mag.com/mass-assassination-factory-israel-calculated-bombing-gaza/
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AI already sucks in so many ways, and it's only the beginning of this tech revolution.
 
VorZakone said:
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Can't read the article but this has crossed my mind as a possible Israeli aim in the event that Hamas can be convinced that surrender and exile (to Qatar and/or Turkey I guess?) is preferable to any alternative. However, that eventuality seems far off and probably not achievable, and in any case the PLO were always foreigners and outsiders in Beirut, whereas Hamas are firmly on home ground.
 
Giggsy PO said:
Oh, I almost forgot probably the most disgusting practice here. Appeal to emotion fallacy by posting pictures/videos of people, especially children suffering. Only one side does it. It is quite sick to make it almost like a competition who will something more horrible.
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There's no "appeal to emotional fallacy" in pointing out the disproportionality in casualties, suffering, infrastructure damage etc. This is victim shaming of the highest order.
 
Bebe said:
There's no "appeal to emotional fallacy" in pointing out the disproportionality in casualties, suffering, infrastructure damage etc. This is victim shaming of the highest order.
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Nobody is blaming victims. What are you talking about?

I was referring to the rule "Do not post gratuitous photos of dead people", which is stretched to absolute limit by some.
 
Giggsy PO said:
Nobody is blaming victims. What are you talking about?

I was referring to the rule "Do not post gratuitous photos of dead people", which is stretched to absolute limit by some.
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" Appeal to emotion fallacy by posting pictures/videos of people, especially children suffering. Only one side does it. "

I was referring to this statement, although looking now I suppose your "one side" could have meant one side of redcafe.

I've seen a number of Israel-supporting comments (not necessarily on the caf) in recent weeks trying to make the point that Palestinians (or those that advocate them since Israel does everything humanely possible to ensure they can't communicate with the outside world) are disingenuous when they draw attention to the extreme human suffering being endured by Palestinians with images. Those comments usually attempt to accuse the person sharing the image of trying to manipulate opinion by provoking sympathy or similar.
 
Some recent articles I've appreciated that some on here might find interesting:

Israel: A settler-colonial state? A clarification
https://www.sublationmag.com/post/i...E36_jFaCkSEX_W1K1NqzX3qaH7em_cumarrhocTZViSss

What would a lasting peace between Israel and Palestine really look like?
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-an...between-israel-and-palestine-really-look-like

Jewish progressives are deeply critical of Israel, yet inextricably tied to it
https://www.newstatesman.com/ideas/2023/11/jewish-progressives-relationship-israel
 
Giggsy PO said:
Where are your tweets?

Three people killed and 13 injured in Jerusalem shooting
Two attackers, reportedly brothers from East Jerusalem, killed at scene, after they opened fire on people at a bus stop

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/30/jerusalem-bus-stop-shooting-attack-killed-injured

Edit: I see, you are all in Kissinger thread now, having orgies. Disgusting.
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What an awful post. On your edit - do you know who Kissinger is? What he’s responsible for?
 
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