Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

12 Thai nationals released so far.
Great news. These poor Thai nationals were just looking for living.

So, we expect a total of 25 today to be released. Far from being a complete list, but a good development.
 
10/7 is a textbook example of "pride comes before the fall".

It partly explains why the military retaliation is so disproportionate, even by Israeli standards. Israel's reputation of invincibility that's been carefully crafted for decades has been utterly shattered in an instant. By as small group of inmates with limited means, operating from the most watched prison in the world. It has to be restored and a message to all the inmates has to be sent. Except it won't and all what Israel has managed is to create even more angry and desperate people while dragging their own image through the mud.

It would also never have been so "successful" if Netanyahu didn't send most of his army in the West Bank to protect and help the settlers do settler shit.

It never worked in the past and never will. History is full of cautionary tales and Israel is on the wrong side of it at the moment.

Good take.

Regarding the bolded, when a future retaliation inevitably happens (assuming the status quo continues), the discourse will be right back here again with "OMG 8/4 (Or whatever the date is), antisemitism! Israel has a right to defend herself! Hamas charters!" without any understanding for why said events have happened.
 
I hope they get as many of them as possible and then bring the thunder on the scum. I do not hope, they will.

The trouble for Hamas is they will be incentivized to stop swapping hostages at some point (probably when they are left with mostly only Israeli males and IDF soldiers) because continuing to give away hostages will only decrease their leverage and invite the Israelis to eventually blow up or flood the entire tunnel network. Will be interesting to see what happens after the four days and whether Hamas opt to extend on a day by day basis.
 
The cynic in me believes the goal isn't complete subjugation, but rather forcing them out through suffocation and desperation. Its why it hasn't surprised me that certain voices from the Israeli side have called for neighbouring nations to take them in under 'humanitarian' guises. Its why I also believe the Israelis have no sincere intention to wipe out Hamas, a viewpoint bolstered by Netanyahu's own admission that its in his camps interest to bolster them. Since it allows Israel to prolong their casus belli against the Palestinian people, essentially quashing any plan for Palestinian statehood, and in their eyes hopefully kickstarting another Nakba, allowing their settlers to swallow up the abandoned land. This of course is happening in parallel to the events in the West Bank, where settlers under the indirect blessing of the government and Israeli security forces are essentially colonising patches of territory in a way thats uncannily cutting off Palestinian territories on a daily basis.

Obviously a flat out genocide is terrible optics for Israel, so stepping short of that and inflicting a carnage-filled campaign with the hope that ethnic cleansing serves as an alternative 'kindness' allows them to achieve their goals of homogenising the land without resorting to violently purging Palestinians with the eyes of the world watching. Its also why I believe its no coincidence they've caused the amount of structural damage they have, destroying huge blocks of homes, hospitals, educational institutions and essential civilian apparatus, deeming the region completely inhospitable for years to come.

Now the conspiracy theorists might indulge the idea that Israel knew such an attack was forthcoming and perhaps allowed it to play out to give them carte blanche to - and I quote Jordan Peterson - 'give em hell'. Personally I'm reluctant to entertain such theories, but its an interesting thought to ponder nonetheless considering the increasingly convincing evidence that these warnings were plentiful and timely, coupled to Israeli's sophisticated intelligence network who you'd feel would be privy to such plans well ahead of time.

Yep, subjugation is not a goal in itself but a prelude to mass expulsion, and the destruction of the city's civilian infrastructure will be framed as a compelling reason for a 'humanitarian' ethnic cleansing, but to pursue such a goal is detached from reality when countries are already announcing red lines regarding this, not to mention the fact that Palestinians themselves won't let a Nakba occur again. I don't believe it'll happen, but I believe extremist voices won't want to waste the opportunity of pursuing it.

The idea that Israel allowed 7th October to occur doesn't seem convincing to me, it's likely going to prove fatal for Netanyahu, the final outcome of this war remains unpredictable, and now Israelis will feel that no matter how many billions have been spent on defence and security, it can be overcome through a comparatively unsophisticated weapons and technology, that's not a feeling that Israel's security apparatus will want its citizens to have.
 
The Israeli-Palestinian problem deciding the Presidential election in the US would be the height of insanity, though. Criticize Biden all day long for how he has handled it, but don't kid yourself into believing that it would be any different under a Republican president. They would just encourage Israel even more.

Biden and his administration has been handed a lose-lose situation with this, and it might end up costing the US and the world a lot of progress on many fronts, if it means another Trump term.

He's picked the worst possible path.
 
The Israeli-Palestinian problem deciding the Presidential election in the US would be the height of insanity, though. Criticize Biden all day long for how he has handled it, but don't kid yourself into believing that it would be any different under a Republican president. They would just encourage Israel even more.

Biden and his administration has been handed a lose-lose situation with this, and it might end up costing the US and the world a lot of progress on many fronts, if it means another Trump term.
I vote for whom I believe would defend American democracy. This conflict doesn’t change that. Regardless, Biden did his best in this terrible and tragic situation. He managed to prevent a regional war, and today we see potentially some end (I know that’s it’s just a pause, but who knows if this wouldn’t develop into a larger ceasefire). He also did well with the Ukraine.

Biden has my vote.
 
10/7 is a textbook example of "pride comes before the fall".

It partly explains why the military retaliation is so disproportionate, even by Israeli standards. Israel's reputation of invincibility that's been carefully crafted for decades has been utterly shattered in an instant. By as small group of inmates with limited means, operating from the most watched prison in the world. It has to be restored and a message to all the inmates has to be sent. Except it won't and all what Israel has managed is to create even more angry and desperate people while dragging their own image through the mud.

It would also never have been so "successful" if Netanyahu didn't send most of his army in the West Bank to protect and help the settlers do settler shit.

It never worked in the past and never will. History is full of cautionary tales and Israel is on the wrong side of it at the moment.

I completely agree, and re-establishing a reputation of invincibility will be unrealistic if Israel returns to a status quo of occupation after all this, a more sophisticated or brutal occupation can be enforced but there'll be the latent awareness that it'll only provide Israelis with security until it doesn't. There has to be a recognition of the urgency to reach a proper and fair solution to this, otherwise we'll be in this thread every twenty years repeating our conversation.
 
There have been numerous articles and videos posted in this thread. There was a Raz Segal video in the last few pages on it, here is an article stating similar: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-experts-point-evidence-genocidal-incitement-against-palestinians-2023-11-16/#:~:text=GENEVA, Nov 16 (Reuters),grave violations" committed by Israel
I will quote from the article you posted:

Asked about the independent experts' statement at a press briefing, Stéphane Dujarric, spokesperson for U.N. Secretary-General Antonio Guterres, said a determination of genocide could only be made by a relevant U.N. judicial body.
 
I vote for whom I believe would defend American democracy. This conflict doesn’t change that. Regardless, Biden did his best in this terrible and tragic situation. He managed to prevent a regional war, and today we see potentially some end (I know that’s it’s just a pause, but who knows if this wouldn’t develop into a larger ceasefire). He also did well with the Ukraine.

Biden has my vote.

The voice of sanity.
 
The world went crazy when isealis were taken hostages. Now, in this exchange, israel is returning tens of Palestinian hostages taken years ago without anyone noticing (caring). The world we live in is absolute shit.
 
He sided with Israel over Hamas, which is what any pro-Israel politician in the US would’ve done. The only ones that are objecting to this are fringe extremists on the left and right, so all things said, Biden has made all the right moves politically. His age and domestic issues like inflation are his main problem. His Israel position will only help him, whereas Trump’s recent spat with Netanyahu likely won’t help him.
What was the recent spat between Trump and Netanyahu?
 
I don't know who's more stupid - the creators of Israeli propaganda, or the consumers of it

There’s plenty of propaganda to go around on both sides. Even worse, most people seemed to get a one sided, heavily curated version of events from feeds they follow because they already agree with.
 
The Israeli-Palestinian problem deciding the Presidential election in the US would be the height of insanity, though. Criticize Biden all day long for how he has handled it, but don't kid yourself into believing that it would be any different under a Republican president. They would just encourage Israel even more.

Biden and his administration has been handed a lose-lose situation with this, and it might end up costing the US and the world a lot of progress on many fronts, if it means another Trump term.

How so? Biden and his adm
I vote for whom I believe would defend American democracy. This conflict doesn’t change that. Regardless, Biden did his best in this terrible and tragic situation. He managed to prevent a regional war, and today we see potentially some end (I know that’s it’s just a pause, but who knows if this wouldn’t develop into a larger ceasefire). He also did well with the Ukraine.

Biden has my vote.
Biden is complicit in genocide and is also responsible for killing babies. He's a despicable man and the sooner he's out of office, no matter who comes in, America will be a better place.
 
How so? Biden and his adm

Biden is complicit in genocide and is also responsible for killing babies. He's a despicable man and the sooner he's out of office, no matter who comes in, America will be a better place.
Yeah, no.
 
How so? Biden and his adm

Biden is complicit in genocide and is also responsible for killing babies. He's a despicable man and the sooner he's out of office, no matter who comes in, America will be a better place.
I don’t agree with that. Trump would be better, especially coming from someone who is talking about a genocide? DeSantis would be better? Haley?

Also, I’m surprised that the process of taking the released hostages to hospitals is taking this long (they crossed the border hours ago, and Israel is a small country).
 
What was the recent spat between Trump and Netanyahu?

Netanyahu dared congratulate Biden for his win in the elections, which Trump didn't like. Trump also got it into his head that Netanyahu was the first to congratulate Biden (he wasn't). He kept mentioning this in an interview to an Israeli journalist and summed it up by saying "feck him".
 
Netanyahu dared congratulate Biden for his win in the elections, which Trump didn't like. Trump also got it into his head that Netanyahu was the first to congratulate Biden (he wasn't). He kept mentioning this in an interview to an Israeli journalist and summed it up by saying "feck him".
Jesus Christ! Where do these people, like Trump and Netanyahu, come from?!!!
 
I don’t agree with that. Trump would be better, especially coming from someone who is talking about a genocide? DeSantis would be better? Haley?

Also, I’m surprised that the process of taking the released hostages to hospitals is taking this long (they crossed the border hours ago, and Israel is a small country).
The way you're talking makes me think you've been living under a rock since 2016, Trump's heroes are Vladimir Putin and Kim Jong-il - he wants to be just like them
 
The way you're talking makes me think you've been living under a rock since 2016, Trump's heroes are Vladimir Putin and Kim Jong-il - he wants to be just like them
I know my friend. I’m just frustrated that this man is one of the two most likely people to be elected president of the United States a year from now.
 
I hope Biden and the Democrats eat shit in every election henceforth until he kicks the bucket and some sane voices emerge from that shitshow of a political system they have there. Unfortunately all this will be too late for the majority of the Palestinian population.
:lol: