To me, this all feels a bit like rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.
A pause? Great. Where are the people going to go if Hamas is meant to be everywhere in Gaza?
Sorry. Not really directly at you. Just despairing.
Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
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To me, this all feels a bit like rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.
A pause? Great. Where are the people going to go if Hamas is meant to be everywhere in Gaza?
Sorry. Not really directly at you. Just despairing.
Smoke and mirrors. He knows exactly what's going on.
Nothing happens in a vacuum and there's always context to every bad situation. You can't say "it's appropriate to condemn the Hamas attacks" after the 7th of October but NOT ask about Israel's brutality and occupation. Life is life and it seems like over the past few weeks that one group of people deserves empathy AFTER another group gets it. The dissonance has been astounding on the internet and in the media and it's why trust has been difficult to come by on either side.
There, it's not so hard is itAnd thanks for the backup on here.
3.8 Billion/year and the best response to a hostage situation is "Let's bomb the hell out of everyone".
I'm still curious whether you consider cutting water and power, blowing up water reserve tanks, bakeries, fishing boats and ambulances, and bombing hospitals, aid stations and refugee camps, while denying critical aid, self-defense.
It's just the logical first step. It makes it easier to agree to peace or permanent ceasefire later, and is much more difficult to reject. It also hopefully makes it slightly harder to continue fighting with the same intensity after the pause if both parties get something they want from it, like civilians back.
Agree with your point though, but at this stage I suppose it's mostly about identifying what can actually be done, however small, and use it to build on.
I realize that, however in this case, its easy to identify any of them because there are a small number of staffers in Congress, and most of these guys probably work for Democrats so that automatically narrows things down even further. If a site like StopAntiSemitism or anyone else wanted to identify them they could, in which case why even bother with the masks.
They're not getting sacked for their Pro-Palestinian views. They're getting sacked when they end up diving into a deluge of antisemitism and hate-speech. And ripping down posters of missing people does not make you Pro-Palestinian. That points at something far darker.
While I share your view generally, the poster you're responding to said that Israel should be condemned for its settler violence and expulsion of Palestinians in the West Bank. He has not ignored Israel's brutal occupation.
That being said, if blame is apportioned in a fair and reasonable manner to both sides for crimes committed, Israel would be unequivocally condemned as a terrorist state and would have to give up vast swathes of territory acquired since 1967, move thousands of settlers back to territory that is legally Israeli, forfeit all nuclear armament about a thousand other things that have a snowball's chance in hell of happening. Anything approaching fairness would be a disaster for Israel.
No, they're getting sacked for saying anything other than "Israel is justified in blowing up Palestinians", which is the mandated view in most of the western world.
Why are you lying?
Nope, no they're not.
Otherwise millions of people would be losing their jobs. You may not be able to distinguish between their hatred and Pro-Palestinian messages, but there is a difference.
I'm not.
Under certain circumstances, yes, it is. And international law can allow for it. Whether these circumstances apply in all cases at the moment, I don't know - they probably don't. But I will accept they do in some
Plenty of people are losing their jobs. I won't say millions, as I have no basis for numbers.
If your first response is a personal attack, I don't feel there's any point in continuing a discussion. Carry on.
And who got sacked? That has nothing to do what this is about.
Those who are being sacked are not being sacked for legitimate protests. They're getting sacked when hate-speech and antisemitism is evidenced.
Are you honestly saying that none of the videos on the stop antisemitism twitter feed display antisemitism? And that companies - many of whom are public facing and services - aren't right to act?
That hospital artwork was removed last February, it's not connected to current events. Background here.
You are. You know as well as anyone thay people have been sacked for making pro-Palestinian posts and comments, but that doesn't suit your narrative, so you have to make it out they were doing hate speech.
Was Paul Bristow doing hate speech when calling for a ceasefire? Was David Velasco's open letter antisemitic? Was Jewish man Micharl Eisen doing antisemitism when retweeting an Onion article? Was Maha Dakhil doing nazism when she called what Israel is doing a genocide?
And that's just a handful of examples from the first page of a Google-search. So kinsly feck all the way off with the patently false claim that no one is being fired for supporting Palestine, and even further off with the ridiculous claim that they're doing hate speech.
You are though.
Harvard letter: Law students who took anti-Israel stance lose job offers - BBC News
When Posting About the Israel-Hamas War Costs You Your Job (thecut.com)
‘The Palestine exception’: why pro-Palestinian voices are suppressed in the US | Israel-Hamas war | The Guardian
‘From friend to enemy’: Palestinians in Israel suspended from jobs over war | Israel-Palestine conflict | Al Jazeera
Israel-Gaza war social media posts, comments are costing some people their jobs - The Washington Post
I'm referencing the instances of antisemitism on a specific twitter feed. Which, in the cases where people have lost their jobs, appear pretty fecking antisemitic.
What's antisemitic about pulling down posters on public property? I went on the twitter feed and 3 of the top 5 tweets are about posters being pulled down.
That's not an answer, that's just you waffling to avoid giving one.
Referencing more the posts where people have gone on to lose their jobs. I can't see a single example there where the person losing their job hasn't said or done something blatantly antisemitic.
Re the poster ripping down - perhaps not antisemitic, more a sign of utter stupidity/inability to acknowledge any degree of suffering that has taken part on the other side. It's dehumanising.
A more intelligent thing to do would to be to start a counter poster campaign documenting the detained Palestinians in Israel.
I'm interested to hear which ones are antisemitic in your opinion. Here's what the Harvard students said as an example:
"We, the undersigned student organizations, hold the Israeli regime entirely responsible for all unfolding violence."
I could go through them one by one, but let's start here.
Edit: That twitter link you showed is basically a doxxing handle - if they're doxxing people for pulling down posters than that's pretty pathetic, and really takes away from real cases of antisemitism.
I would be more offended about the "ripping posters of missing people" if I believed that the people recording these videos care about the fate of the hostages. They do not give a shit.
Well, the first evidence on the feed is of a doctor in London posting "Die Juden sind unsere Unglück" - the Jews are our misfortune - on Facebook. On Oct 10th. 3 days after the Oct 7 attack. He's apparently lost his job. I'd argue that justified and incredibly antisemitic.
The next one on the feed documents a former Apple employee equating Zionism to Nazism. Given the historical context, yeah - I'd be open to interpret that as being antisemitic.
And the next one where someone apparently was fired from their job was an instant from having taken down a poster, but whilst the cousin of the person kidnapped films and asks what she's doing. It's a pretty hateful move and demonstrates zero value for the lives in question.
And to the quote you mentioned, I think that to impart all blame on Israel for what is going on in this particular instance is simplistic and inaccurate, although not in itself antisemitic.
Well, that must be true. It says "Honest" right there in the name.
There are a lot more that just Israeli's being held captive, so if those posters are of British and US citizens then it would make perfect sense. And I struggle to see why anyone would be compelled to rip them down. Surely the only conclusions that could lead someone down that route is that they think it's fake news, they don't like seeing the reality of the situation, or they are glad the kidnappings took place.
Like I said earlier, why aren't they highlighting the Palestinians in Israeli cells? It's just a bit of an idiotic move to rip them down. And I don't see how doing that does anything to support the Pro-Palestinian movement.
I was referring to the links I had posted not the Twitter handle. But I take it that when you said ‘Referencing more the posts where people have gone on to lose their jobs.’ You were referring to the Twitter handle and not the links, so I think we’re talking cross purposes here.
HonestReporting (also Honest Reporting or honestreporting.com) is a non-governmental organization that "monitors the media for bias against Israel" and has been described by several news outlets as a "pro-Israel media watchdog group".[1][2][3] The organization is a United States 501(c)3 registered charity headquartered in New York City, with its editorial staff based in Jerusalem.
The American Journalism Review described the organisation as a "pro-Israeli pressure group".[28]
After being criticized by HonestReporting for articles published by The Independent, author Robert Fiskwrote in the Independent that some of their readers sent him hate-mail.[29]
Following a 2004 article published in the British Medical Journal which criticised Israel for a high level of Palestinian civilian casualties and claimed that the pattern of injuries suggested routine targeting of children in situations of minimal or no threat, the journal received over 500 responses to its website and nearly 1,000 sent directly to its editor. In an analysis of the responses published in the journal, Karl Sabbagh concluded that the correspondence was orchestrated by Honest Reporting and aimed at silencing legitimate criticism of Israel. In his analysis Sabbagh pointed to evidence that the correspondents had not read the article. Sabbagh also documented a significant proportion of offensive, abusive and racist insults among the correspondence. An editorial by the BMJ referred to the campaign as bullying and said that the best way to counter such behaviour was to expose it to public scrutiny.[30][31] Daniel Finkelstein, associate editor of The Times, responded that Sabbagh's piece was "anti-Israel propaganda" that did not meet even "basic academic standards" of scientific analysis.[32]
We’re in Memri territory here, pal.
Apart from what @marktan said, this one happened in my field:
And whatever you may think of people primarily blaming Israel for 10/7, I don't think that can be construed as a direct line to "pretty fecking antisemitic" - that's what got a whole lot of people fired. I believe many have been fired after saying "from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free."
A bunch more here: https://jewishcurrents.org/crisis-at-the-92nd-street-y
https://theintercept.com/2023/10/26/artforum-artists-gaza-ceasefire-martin-eisenberg/
The message is pretty clear - shut up - at least, never speak with your own name.
Perhaps, yeah - sorry, I was referencing a specific anti semitism twitter page that was posted earlier. From the examples on that page where people had lost their jobs it seems pretty justified.
There seems to have been stringers embedded with Hamas during the attacks. For which news agencies is rather important & when they knew as well. Sorry for the less than scrupulous messenger, the message is the more important issue imo.