Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

IhabX7 said:
Here’s why I’ve not been posting in here despite reading takes ranging from the horrifically uninformed to the blatantly racist:

Today in Israel, I’m not allowed to voice an opinion. Palestinian citizens of Israel have been forcefully silenced and threatened for any social media activity that isn’t in line with Israeli Hasbara. There’s a serious witch hunt going on. Full blown McCarthyism.

Hundreds have been detained, fired from their jobs. Hundreds have been threatened by Jewish citizens with physical harm. Authorities and law makers threatening to revoke our citizenship.

I’ll remain quiet for now in regards to the main issues rather than taking the risk of being ratted out like four of my friends who have been arrested for:

1) Following an Instagram page called eye on Palestine.
2) Sharing a post by an Israeli Jew on Facebook that accused Israel of genocide (the Israeli Jew has not been arrested, the Arab who shared the Jew’s post did get arrested).
3) Posting an instagram story sympathizing with the children of Gaza and calling for a ceasefire.
4) Being ratted out by her Jewish “friend” who shared screenshots of a private conversation they had on facebook, where she said there’s no evidence of beheadings. She’s been detained for three days, bullied by tens of thousands online, with the screenshots broadcasted on television.

An Arab medical doctor got fired because of an old profile pictures on Facebook that contain Quran texts. A political analyst got arrested for posting an objective analysis of the breach on the 7th.

Meanwhile Jewish citizen have been calling for a final solution, mocking Palestinian suffering, and dehumanizing them. Telegram groups with thousands of members rife with organizing pogroms and lynches without any consequences. Hell, they’re even posting videos of urinating on Palestinian dead bodies, stabbing them and poking their eyes out. Zero consequences.

My supposedly leftist Jewish colleagues have turned into vengeful right wing snitches.

I have been threatened by my Jewish neighbor (that I’ve had good neighborly relationship with) telling me he’s sick of hearing me speaking Arabic in the building, when I stood my ground, with his veins popping out of his neck he threatened “I’ll do another Nakba to you”.

Most importantly, we've been warned not to protest by the police commissioner as the police won’t hesitate to use live ammunition. So we just have to live with the grief, the shame, the anger and the sense of defeatedness while all of this is happening.
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I'm really sorry to hear this. Being denied the ability to mourn or grieve in even a semi-public manner is so cruel, it must be an immensely lonely and vulnerable feeling to be a Palestinian in Israel right now. I hope you can at the very least receive some private expressions of solidarity, support, shared grief, anything that can give you the reassurance that there can be reasons for hope. Take care.
 
Beachryan said:
Assuming the pressure finally works, we will hopefully get a ceasefire soon. At this point, I honestly have no idea what a path forward looks like.
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Nobody else can either, it's probably one of the reasons why there has been no direct 'interventions' by outsiders (on either side), nobody can risk being embroiled in something where no end result can even be imagined let alone agreed to, that would lead to a ceasefire.

Any change in the current situation, whether a 'humanitarian pause' or a negotiated ceasefire will require outside assistance, but no one seems able to persuade either party to engage. All that can be hoped for is that somewhere in the 'back channels' of the UN, or in Qatar, earnest and honest endeavor's are being made, the lives of thousands of civilians, hundreds of hostages and indeed (an untold number) of combatants rest on such hope.
 
We're witnessing a fascist occupier perpetrate a genocide against an indigenous population, in real or near real time, and meanwhile all the imperialist states, allies, acolytes, controlled and downright fanatical media would have you believe that this is some kind of incredibly complex situation without an easy fix, so that we go back to our mind numbing routines and pleasures while their genocidal a.k.a "defence" forces do what they do best.

A technologically advanced and yet worst era of humanity, with all credit to the supposedly enlightened socio-economic system called capitalism. Sociopaths in charge, hedonism on the up; the masses are ever more taught and convinced of their differences, to fight amongst themselves while the most vulnerable and everything else around them is chewed up by the death industry.
 
Maticmaker said:
Nobody else can either, it's probably one of the reasons why there has been no direct 'interventions' by outsiders (on either side), nobody can risk being embroiled in something where no end result can even be imagined let alone agreed to, that would lead to a ceasefire.

Any change in the current situation, whether a 'humanitarian pause' or a negotiated ceasefire will require outside assistance, but no one seems able to persuade either party to engage. All that can be hoped for is that somewhere in the 'back channels' of the UN, or in Qatar, earnest and honest endeavor's are being made, the lives of thousands of civilians, hundreds of hostages and indeed (an untold number) of combatants rest on such hope.
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I don't think there will be international intervention (as in people on the ground) as long as Hamad are in charge of Gaza.
On one hand they legitimize military actions by Israel (although obviously not to the extend we're seeing right now) on the other hand I don't see anyone offering to send their soldiers (on some peace keeping mission) into a densely populated area with tens of (?!) thousands of armed Islamists lurking in some tunnel network.
 
IhabX7 said:
Here’s why I’ve not been posting in here despite reading takes ranging from the horrifically uninformed to the blatantly racist:

Today in Israel, I’m not allowed to voice an opinion. Palestinian citizens of Israel have been forcefully silenced and threatened for any social media activity that isn’t in line with Israeli Hasbara. There’s a serious witch hunt going on. Full blown McCarthyism.

Hundreds have been detained, fired from their jobs. Hundreds have been threatened by Jewish citizens with physical harm. Authorities and law makers threatening to revoke our citizenship.

I’ll remain quiet for now in regards to the main issues rather than taking the risk of being ratted out like four of my friends who have been arrested for:

1) Following an Instagram page called eye on Palestine.
2) Sharing a post by an Israeli Jew on Facebook that accused Israel of genocide (the Israeli Jew has not been arrested, the Arab who shared the Jew’s post did get arrested).
3) Posting an instagram story sympathizing with the children of Gaza and calling for a ceasefire.
4) Being ratted out by her Jewish “friend” who shared screenshots of a private conversation they had on facebook, where she said there’s no evidence of beheadings. She’s been detained for three days, bullied by tens of thousands online, with the screenshots broadcasted on television.

An Arab medical doctor got fired because of an old profile pictures on Facebook that contain Quran texts. A political analyst got arrested for posting an objective analysis of the breach on the 7th.

Meanwhile Jewish citizen have been calling for a final solution, mocking Palestinian suffering, and dehumanizing them. Telegram groups with thousands of members rife with organizing pogroms and lynches without any consequences. Hell, they’re even posting videos of urinating on Palestinian dead bodies, stabbing them and poking their eyes out. Zero consequences.

My supposedly leftist Jewish colleagues have turned into vengeful right wing snitches.

I have been threatened by my Jewish neighbor (that I’ve had good neighborly relationship with) telling me he’s sick of hearing me speaking Arabic in the building, when I stood my ground, with his veins popping out of his neck he threatened “I’ll do another Nakba to you”.

Most importantly, we've been warned not to protest by the police commissioner as the police won’t hesitate to use live ammunition. So we just have to live with the grief, the shame, the anger and the sense of defeatedness while all of this is happening.
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That's truly heartbreaking to hear.

We've heard enough, don't post anything that could endanger you or your family and relatives.

Stay safe.
 
OldTrevil said:
We're witnessing a fascist occupier perpetrate a genocide against an indigenous population, in real or near real time, and meanwhile all the imperialist states, allies, acolytes, controlled and downright fanatical media would have you believe that this is some kind of incredibly complex situation without an easy fix, so that we go back to our mind numbing routines and pleasures while their genocidal a.k.a "defence" forces do what they do best.

A technologically advanced and yet worst era of humanity, with all credit to the supposedly enlightened socio-economic system called capitalism. Sociopaths in charge, hedonism on the up; the masses are ever more taught and convinced of their differences, to fight amongst themselves while the most vulnerable and everything else around them is chewed up by the death industry.
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Absolutely true.
 
The Corinthian said:
The phraseology of this post is so absurd.

'Settlers have paved the way for extremism' - firstly, what's extreme in the WB?

Secondly, what response is there to armed settlers killing, terrorising you and taking your home and land? Families are leaving the WB in droves, knowing they have no legal or civil recourse to return. Yet, you label Palestinians there extremist?

And you say Hamas are spewing 'this shite' - what about the Israeli government? What about ben Gvir arming settlers? Also there is no Hamas in the WB.

At least be intellectually honest about the situation rather than giving this dumb slanted view. If you think Israel should take all the land and ethnic cleansing is justifiable then just own it. Pretty sick of posters such as yourself who are trying their best to hide their intention.
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What a ridiculous response, and one that also completely avoids acknowledging the utter insanity of Marzouk's comments. You're clearly looking for something here that simply isn't evidenced.

I'm saying that the abhorrent actions by Israeli settlers has enabled the growth of extremism to take root in Palestinian territories - in both the WB and Gaza, unless you don't perceive any actions committed by Palestinians/Hamas as evidence of "extremism"? This type of extremism - whilst explained in part by the actions of Israeli's on Palestinian territories - is, in itself, utterly repugnant and dangerous. And of course there's extremism in the WB, and there are more groups than just Hamas evidencing this. Hamas are the current mouthpiece due to their prevalence and control of Gaza. Jenin has become a hotbed for extremism, for instance. The ideologies that are sadly now rooted in these territories is one of the reasons why both Jordan and Egypt are absolutely opposed to taking in more refugees than they have to.

I completely agree with you about the harm the rhetoric/stances of Gvir/Israeli government, and I'll be more than happy to echo your just criticisms. The reason why this wasn't noted in my initial post is because the post itself was drawing attention to the insane and deranged comments of Marzouk, comments that are totally untrue and false. These comments would be akin to Netanyahu claiming no women and children have died in Palestine since the start of the war. If and when these comments are made, you can be sure that I'll criticize and dismiss them in their entirety.
 
groovyalbert said:
I'm saying that the abhorrent actions by Israeli settlers has enabled the growth of extremism to take root in Palestinian territories - in both the WB and Gaza, unless you don't perceive any actions committed by Palestinians/Hamas as evidence of "extremism"? This type of extremism - whilst explained in part by the actions of Israeli's on Palestinian territories - is, in itself, utterly repugnant and dangerous. And of course there's extremism in the WB, and there are more groups than just Hamas evidencing this. Hamas are the current mouthpiece due to their prevalence and control of Gaza. Jenin has become a hotbed for extremism, for instance. The ideologies that are sadly now rooted in these territories is one of the reasons why both Jordan and Egypt are absolutely opposed to taking in more refugees than they have to.
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What comes across as odd in the 'phraseology' is that you are using "extremism" to refer to Palestinians only.

Settlers "paved the way for extremism," as opposed to being extremists.
 
calodo2003 said:
Worthless human being...

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Probably the same 'actors' who pretended to have been killed in that mass shooting a few years ago.

America is in a very dark path. Maybe they always were but the social media news is making it much more blatant.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
What comes across as odd in the 'phraseology' is that you are using "extremism" to refer to Palestinians only.

Settlers "paved the way for extremism," as opposed to being extremists.
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Ok, Israeli settlers are extremists. I'm more than happy to use that term.

But I think the highlighting of this is more an attempt to avoid the actual content of the post.
 
I feel like Pallywood had fallen out of style due to the advent of cell phone cameras and social media. Too many videos and images to try to deny it.
 
calodo2003 said:
Worthless human being...

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It's scary that there are people like this in US Politics that could possibly get into a real position of power one day. Either he's lying or he genuinely believes this shit. I'm not sure which is worse.
 
nimic said:
This whole Pallywood thing is part of a dis- and misinformation campaign. And it's being furthered by for example Visegrad24, who you and many others have posted in this thread and others. I don't say that to put any sort of blame on you, just to point out how easy it is to boost this stuff.



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Get what you are saying, but Cory Mills is the type of cnut to spout off inanity like this. His district is one of the more necky areas in Florida who lap up unhinged shit such as this. Don't see any need for amplification, just go to the source.
 
The Israeli government and army are a terror and killing machine, with or without Hamas.
For decades in the West Bank alone regularly/daily they kill, shoot, injure and/or arrest any Palastinian either directly or indirectly via settlers whenever they want without any consequences.
This is why even the PA won’t achieve anything in Gaza as it has no real power based on the shocking state of West Bank.

As long as the international community (basically US) doesn’t force the Israeli government and army to behave like human beings and act a bit like a democratic state, nothing will change. Neither will there be peace for Palastinians nor peace or security for Isreal.
 
nimic said:
This whole Pallywood thing is part of a dis- and misinformation campaign. And it's being furthered by for example Visegrad24, who you and many others have posted in this thread and others. I don't say that to put any sort of blame on you, just to point out how easy it is to boost this stuff.



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That Visegrad account is so clearly not a good source, and yet people are constantly posting it in here, including mods that have given out about people posting spurious tweets.
 
Mihajlovic said:
I don't understand how, among the 1500+ murdered, the chopping off the head of a Thailandese worker, the execution of an Israeli Arab bus driver, and the raping of a child is a justifiable reaction to 'decades of occupation'. It's almost like Gazans hold a monopoly on pain and suffering, their plight so universally unique that no matter what attrocities they commit, people across the world will be understanding. Look at that Hamas freedom fighter. Look how emotionally hurt he is. He's about to kill and destroy and rape and set on fire, but please, look behind his acts of barbarism - deep down there's a wounded heart and a grieving soul.
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This can probably be said for both sides, particularly in light of the Israeli reaction in both Gaza and the WB. This is what happens when you have dueling factions of messianic fanatics squabbling over a piece of land.
 
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IhabX7 said:
Here’s why I’ve not been posting in here despite reading takes ranging from the horrifically uninformed to the blatantly racist:

Today in Israel, I’m not allowed to voice an opinion. Palestinian citizens of Israel have been forcefully silenced and threatened for any social media activity that isn’t in line with Israeli Hasbara. There’s a serious witch hunt going on. Full blown McCarthyism.

Hundreds have been detained, fired from their jobs. Hundreds have been threatened by Jewish citizens with physical harm. Authorities and law makers threatening to revoke our citizenship.

I’ll remain quiet for now in regards to the main issues rather than taking the risk of being ratted out like four of my friends who have been arrested for:

1) Following an Instagram page called eye on Palestine.
2) Sharing a post by an Israeli Jew on Facebook that accused Israel of genocide (the Israeli Jew has not been arrested, the Arab who shared the Jew’s post did get arrested).
3) Posting an instagram story sympathizing with the children of Gaza and calling for a ceasefire.
4) Being ratted out by her Jewish “friend” who shared screenshots of a private conversation they had on facebook, where she said there’s no evidence of beheadings. She’s been detained for three days, bullied by tens of thousands online, with the screenshots broadcasted on television.

An Arab medical doctor got fired because of an old profile pictures on Facebook that contain Quran texts. A political analyst got arrested for posting an objective analysis of the breach on the 7th.

Meanwhile Jewish citizen have been calling for a final solution, mocking Palestinian suffering, and dehumanizing them. Telegram groups with thousands of members rife with organizing pogroms and lynches without any consequences. Hell, they’re even posting videos of urinating on Palestinian dead bodies, stabbing them and poking their eyes out. Zero consequences.

My supposedly leftist Jewish colleagues have turned into vengeful right wing snitches.

I have been threatened by my Jewish neighbor (that I’ve had good neighborly relationship with) telling me he’s sick of hearing me speaking Arabic in the building, when I stood my ground, with his veins popping out of his neck he threatened “I’ll do another Nakba to you”.

Most importantly, we've been warned not to protest by the police commissioner as the police won’t hesitate to use live ammunition. So we just have to live with the grief, the shame, the anger and the sense of defeatedness while all of this is happening.
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Mental, hope everything works out okay for you.
 
Raoul said:
This can probably be said for both sides, particularly in light of the Israeli reaction in both Gaza and the WB. This is what happens when you have dueling factions of messianic fanatics squabbling over a piece of land.
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A small correction, you could say that for both sides in particular prior to October 7th. People should keep in mind that the counts in late August was +200 palestinians killed for 30 israelis. And that's the normal ratio every year since at least the mid-2000s.

https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties#
 
JPRouve said:
A small correction, you could say that for both sides in particular prior to October 7th. People should keep in mind that the counts in late August was +200 palestinians killed for 30 israelis. And that's the normal ratio every year since at least the mid-2000s.

https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties#
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The previous point didn't speak to disparity in numbers (which has always existed given the power imbalance between both sides).
 
JuriM said:


Kind of expected that kind of move to cause more chaos into the situation, it plays into their hand.
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Only a couple of days after Abbas met with Blinken, where they probably discussed among other things, who would run Gaza after the demise of Hamas.
 
Raoul said:
Only a couple of days after Abbas met with Blinken, where they probably discussed among other things, who would run Gaza after the demise of Hamas.
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Shame this cannot be democratically discussed and options from various parties put forward to the people to decide in a fair election.
 
Raoul said:
The previous point didn't speak to disparity in numbers (which has always existed given the power imbalance between both sides).
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It's true it didn't speak to disparity in numbers, it used a number that looks fairly high to make a point about the suffering of one side compared to the other which was strangely enough only described as "decades of occupation". To me it seems fair to do two things first put the "decade of occupation" in context with figures about deaths and injuries but also point out that it has been a lot easier to find people that openly declare that Israel actions are justifiable, then it is to find people saying the same thing about Hamas actions.

I hope that you see why I find the post you quoted problematic from a context standpoint and why your answer, in my opinion, should have clearly stated that all the actions that they listed exist for Israel but in much higher numbers and are much more regular. But the goal of the other poster was to downplay palestinians experiences and also attack whoever mentions it.
 
Mihajlovic said:
Shame this cannot be democratically discussed and options from various parties put forward to the people to decide in a fair election.
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It will be interesting to see the power dynamic that emerges among Palestinians after the war. Abbas is very old and generally inept and Hamas will be either completely done or else banished and marginalized into irrelevance in Doha.
 
Sky News

"..At the al Shifa hospital, a baby was rushed to the neonatal unit after being found alone near a mosque. It’s not known if the baby’s parents are alive or dead..."

A two day old baby. Damn.

It really is becoming a graveyard isn't it?
 
Raoul said:
It will be interesting to see the power dynamic that emerges among Palestinians after the war. Abbas is very old and generally inept and Hamas will be either completely done or else banished and marginalized into irrelevance in Doha.
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Apsolutely. Abbas could quietly start preparing the ground for a potential transition of power, ideally promoting someone who has close ties with Israeli security officials and American diplomats. Perhaps this would work in the best interest of the WB political agenda. Whoever the candidates are they will have to satisfy regional and international actors as well as Palestinian factions.
 
Mihajlovic said:
Apsolutely. Abbas could quietly start preparing the ground for a potential transition of power, ideally promoting someone who has close ties with Israeli security officials and American diplomats. Perhaps this would work in the best interest of the WB political agenda. Whoever the candidates are they will have to satisfy regional and international actors as well as Palestinian factions.
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Add to that, the challenge of who administers Gaza after the war. Will the Israelis insist on controlling security to prevent another extremist organization from repeating what Hamas did, or will there by some sort of UN run peacekeeping mission inside Gaza, potentially with loose Israeli oversight, which would keep the Israelis out of the strip while simultaneously meeting their security protocols.
 
Beachryan said:
Great analogy.
If you were this lady's friend, would you tell her the best course of action for her future wellbeing is:
a. Punch her abusive husband in the face, and f*ck the consequences.
b. Don't punch her abusive husband in the face, do literally anything else. Get a divorce. Move out. Seek police help.

Anyway, if you're able to mentally justify Hamas' actions on October 7th - both the brutality but far more importantly the idiocy of what would happen to Gazans, then that's great. Enjoy your righteous indignation, it is far simpler to see the world that easily.
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Seek police help. Who is the police of the world? US...oh but the police is on the side of the husband and even provide him with brass knuckles..What we do now?
 
Beachryan said:
Great analogy.
If you were this lady's friend, would you tell her the best course of action for her future wellbeing is:
a. Punch her abusive husband in the face, and f*ck the consequences.
b. Don't punch her abusive husband in the face, do literally anything else. Get a divorce. Move out. Seek police help.

Anyway, if you're able to mentally justify Hamas' actions on October 7th - both the brutality but far more importantly the idiocy of what would happen to Gazans, then that's great. Enjoy your righteous indignation, it is far simpler to see the world that easily.
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Unfortunately, the analogy doesn't quite do justice to the long term complexities of the situation (whether 10/7 or the preceding decades before).
 
JuriM said:


Kind of expected that kind of move to cause more chaos into the situation, it plays into their hand.
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This is misinformation, any attempts of an assassination have been denied and the video shows a clash between Palestinian gangs, entirely unrelated to the Palestinian Authority.
 


Displaced / orphaned children at Al-Shifa hospital in Gaza are having to hold a press conference about the living conditions they're in, and the constant bombardment as an appeal for clemency.

That's the world we're living in.
 
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Frosty said:
So the plan is to fight in and clear Gaza City?

If so, then surely South Gaza is next? I don't see any way to "clear Gaza of Hamas" without the military going through every neighbourhood and district.
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From what I've seen so far, it appears the plan is to cut off north and south Gaza, get as many civilians out as possible, then eliminate any Hamas resistance in the northern sector, neutralizing tunnels and freeing hostages along the way. Once complete, then begin gradually moving into the south.

The only leverage Hamas have at the moment are the hostages, but it seems the Israelis are more interested in getting rid of Hamas once and for all, than actually prioritizing the return of their own people. This may of course just be a propaganda talking point used by the Israelis to scare Hamas into giving them back.
 
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