There is a massive difference between guaranteeing no civilian casualties and targetting civilian infrastructures while also stating that no gazan civilian is innocent.
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There is a massive difference between guaranteeing no civilian casualties and targetting civilian infrastructures while also stating that no gazan civilian is innocent.
Are you expecting them to courteously and conveniently line up in an open field somewhere, where they all hold a giant bullseye? Hamas are native to Gaza - you know the open air prison where no one is essentially allowed to leave or enter. Where are you expecting them to be?
Indeed. And an even bigger difference specifically targeting innocent civilians up close and personal, no?
You know the last election was in 2006, right?
When half the population of Gaza was either not yet born or too young to vote...
Not around schools and hospitals and mosques? Seems like there's plenty of other options.
Israel funded Hamas to be a disruptive force in Palestine politics. Definite shades of the Taliban and the US in the 80s.
Yeah, because the elected Hamas did away with the democracy that put them in power. Hamas is why those kids have no vote.
It's not really a distinction, palestinians are killed fairly regularly in the West Bank by settlers with the support of IDF or by IDF itself up close and personal.
Also you are not more righteous because you used long distance weapons.
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I'm just incredibly sad for the civilians. Can't get past feeling like they are trapped between two evils in hamas and the israeli government.
Are you talking about IDF or Hamas? So confusing.
Well, that backfired awfully quick then... https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-hamas
"Yassin established Hamas as the Brotherhood’s political arm in Gaza in December 1987, following the outbreak of the first intifada, a Palestinian uprising against Israeli occupation of the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem. At the time, Hamas’s purpose was to counter Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), another organization whose commitment to violently resisting Israel threatened to draw Palestinians’ support away from the Brotherhood. In 1988, Hamas published its charter, calling for the destruction of Israel and the establishment of an Islamic society in historic Palestine."
Doesn't sound like much of a divergence if he abstained from condemnation of Israel, though Israelis have come to expect to be backed no matter what breaches/attrocities they commit I'm not surprised it was viewed that way.
Not really. One is lobbing bombs and hasn't sent any individuals into the other's territory to kill with guns and other close range means. The other did. There's a difference between collateral damage and intentionally attacking innocents face to face. Doesn't make either death any less tragic, but it speaks to the state of mind of the perpetrator, which is always relevant when determining liability (legally, at least - hence the difference between premeditated murder and manslaughter, for example).
You're right, they are hateful cockroaches.
Israel didn't 'let them in' by the way. They were just the ones who didn't run away in 48.
I agree with you on that but I feel that, and please correct me if I'm wrong, what you and many fail here to understand is how asymmetric warfare goes . Especially in colonial wars (no matter what people say, it actually is one).
This is not two regular armies facing each other on a conventional battlefield, each one having a somewhat reasonable hope of winning the battle. No one's not going to make it easy for an opponent that utterly overpowers them, just based on moral grounds. It never happened. Ever. The Hamas isn't banking on a win in the conventional military sense. They hit you as hard as they can and then just leave you stuck between a rock and a hard place. Go in too soft and you appear as weak, which won't go unnoticed. Go in too hard and you're a monster, the world and relatives of the victims will remember that. That's without even mentioning your own casualties that you have to justify back home. There's no middle ground, it's a battle of opinions, the one that matters, especially today. It's not pretty, it's not moral and of course, the civilian population is the first to suffer, but that's what you get in a situation like this. Every single time.
There's no military solution to this conflict and will never be. You can't win this way unless you're ready to either eradicate the Palestinians or mass deport them. You can retaliate and deploy the flamethrower to get rid of the current mosquitoes bothering you, others will take their place. You can win but you'll never have peace.
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The fact that Israel's body count is at least 10 times Hamas' is the greatest crime. I've heard of an eye for an eye but with Israel it's a life for an eye.
How convenient that the time Israel most needs evidence to prove “it wasn’t them”, as the world began to wake up and smell the coffee and condemn their genocidal atrocities, they’re able to capture crystal clear audio confessions and neatly worded documents that ties it all together like the end of an episode of Scooby Doo.
Investigation done and dusted, with the conclusion that they aren’t the bad guys when the dust hasn’t even settled on the hundreds of dead bodies.
And those Hamas terrorists would’ve gotten away with it too, if it wasn’t for those meddling Israelis.
Biden with his unwavering support for the real terrorists is also unsurprising.
Investigation done and dusted, with the conclusion that they aren’t the bad guys when the dust hasn’t even settled on the hundreds of dead bodies.
And those Hamas terrorists would’ve gotten away with it too, if it wasn’t for those meddling Israelis.
Biden with his unwavering support for the real terrorists is also unsurprising.
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Like I said, I think we have incredibly different definitions of relative peace.
Most slaves weren't being attacked most days either, as long as they knew their place, shut up and did what they were told.
How convenient that the time Israel most needs evidence to prove “it wasn’t them”, as the world began to wake up and smell the coffee and condemn their genocidal atrocities, they’re able to capture crystal clear audio confessions and neatly worded documents that ties it all together like the end of an episode of Scooby Doo.
And those Hamas terrorists would’ve gotten away with it too, if it wasn’t for those meddling Israelis.
Biden with his unwavering support for the real terrorists is also unsurprising.
Hamas aren't exactly fictitious terrorists.
Stretching the term collateral damage to absolute breaking point here.
posted so I get quoted by Pogue
Maybe the
Until then, both sides will do what they actually can.
I know. Hence me bringing it up, since I think you need to square that with your post saying: "despite being elected representatives of a group of people that you would say deserve their own state"
Lobbing bombs to murder civilians = good
Upclose and person murder civilians = bad
Comedy gold right there. The fact that we are even comparing IDF to a savage terrorist group says it all.
Yes but it's the Israeli bombs with the political backing of The US, UK and the EU that is killing them currently.
They are, but to lay the blame solely on them as the IDF (who are terrorists themselves) have done is facetious.
Seems you've missed the entire point. IDF isn't trying to kill civilians. As I said above, it's about intent, state of mind. Does murder = manslaughter?
It's kind of hard not to kill civilians when the military targets are embedded in civilian infrastructure to maximize civilian casualties to engender support. And see, it's working.
Yes. The west certainly is playing a horrific part.
Yeah, I also think that it's the most plausible explanation.
Will also just note that the actual hospital is the buildings with the solar panels in the background. Whatever hit, hit the parking lot area.
Good. But. Does he need a speaker in the house to do that?
..." most Palestinians do live their lives in relative peace, given the ongoing situation in the Middle East."...
What are you talking about?
..."The decision that was made in 1948 to give the Israeli people their homeland is what it is"....
I wonder what UK would say if a UN resolution would give Wessex , Mercia, Northumbria and East Anglia to Norway as it is their Homeland
Also a decision was made to not allow settlers to the westbank (and lots of other occupied land). Has this been respected? Seems that UN resolutions only applies when favorable
..."And the State of Israel is, in the main, recognised by the global community"...
So does recognize Palestine
..."This latest situation was the result of a terrorist group attacking Israel. Not the other way round."...
The latest situation is a result of an occupation, putting 2.3 millions in a tiny space, killing hundreds of them every year children included with indiscriminate attacks , make them dependent on everything and hope that this shit doesn't happen more often. The score doesn't start now that Hamas did this barbaric attack. It starts 75 years ago and it continued the last 20 years with thousands of people killed 95% Palestinians. To be honest, I thought that an intelligent and sensible poster like you would know better. Don't expect anyone to be pro palestinian but this analysis couldn't be more appaling
Is that supposed to be the centre of the blast? Any air dropped bomb would leave a decent sized crater and all but the smallest 250lbers would vapourise most of those cars. They also don't burn the way the explosion did in the videos.
I wouldn't say who is responsible but i'm pretty confident whatever it was didn't come from an aircraft.
It will go ahead, imo. Bombing the living crap out of Gaza won't achieve anything meaningful (other than mass killing civilians) and would barely reduce Hamas' offensive capabilities. No to mention that backing down would make them look like clowns, especially after all that posturing from the Israeli officials. The only reasons to the delays are the bad weather and the Americans reigning them in to think that plan through.
Ewww.
The answer might be in that.