Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
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Wait... wtf...
Israel banned an official US congresswoman? You cant make this shit up.
Israel banned an official US congresswoman? You cant make this shit up.
I'm waiting for some of the Jews on here to say Bernie is an anti-semite because he agrees with Ilhan Omar.
To contextualise, they let this guy in, and by the sounds of it, funded the experience to a degree:
Who do you mean with "some of the Jews on here"? And why would they say such a thing?
How would you know that they're Jewish? Or does the "calling Bernie and anti-Semite because he agrees with Ilhan Omar" make one Jewish by default?
The two posts above....
Good grief.
Good grief.
The irony of criticising the apparent overuse of antisemitism accusations and simultaneously throwing out the "some Jews on here" line.
So you mean "those bad Jews". Who do you have in mind?
You judge if by supporting a terrorist like your PM and what he does makes you a good guy.
The current Israel State and Saudi Arabia are partners in spreading terrorism around the world.
That will of course never happen since an anti-Israel politician won't be in the WH.
Perhaps you should stick to the Trump thread, you're in a bit over your head in here.
Thanks for confirming you are an apologist for your PM.
Just speaking for myself here, what's wrong with mine? I just asked you to clarify which "Jews on here" you mean and why you expect them to declare Sanders an antisemite?
You haven't got a clue who my 'PM' is (clue: we refer to him as the 'Taoiseach' over here), and you clearly haven't read a word I've written on the Cafe about the guy you seem to think is my PM.
Tlaib has made a mess of this entire thing by attempting to frame her trip as being on compassionate grounds, then getting checkmated by the Israelis when they opted to allow her in on the very same grounds she said she was going on. Now that she is backpedalling by not going, she is made to look like the grandmother angle was secondary (at best) to going there with Omar to promote a pro-Palestinian political position on behalf of Miftah.
It seems to me her hatred of Israel seems to be stronger than her love of her family. Me personally, would go through the arse-end of hell for my family if required, but that's just me.
Dignity be damned I guess. She is being discriminated against despite being elected.
Completely. If it was all about a compassionate trip, she should've simply laid low, not taken Omar, and petitioned the Israeli government directly.
If this was any other nation in the world nobody would care anywhere near as much...?
According to National Review, the group that planned Omar and Tlaib’s trip, MIFTAH, runs a Web site that publishes anti-Semitic articles and celebrates Palestinian terrorists, several of whom murdered Jewish children. The link guarantees that the trip would have been a nonstop assault on Israel. If you think it was to spread love and peace throughout the holy land, then you're either incredibly naive or blissfully ignorant.
Omar and Tlaib likely would have made provocative statements there, leading some Israelis to fear a larger round of violence. Why take that chance?
Virtually every nation bars entry to those who wish it harm, yet it’s an international incident when Israel does it. When you've worked out the answer to why this happens, it becomes pretty obvious what people's motives are.
According to National Review, the group that planned Omar and Tlaib’s trip, MIFTAH, runs a Web site that publishes anti-Semitic articles and celebrates Palestinian terrorists, several of whom murdered Jewish children. The link guarantees that the trip would have been a nonstop assault on Israel. If you think it was to spread love and peace throughout the holy land, then you're either incredibly naive or blissfully ignorant.
Omar and Tlaib likely would have made provocative statements there, leading some Israelis to fear a larger round of violence. Why take that chance?
Virtually every nation bars entry to those who wish it harm, yet it’s an international incident when Israel does it. When you've worked out the answer to why this happens, it becomes pretty obvious what people's motives are.
Hm, you could as well say that last-minute-banning her after a Trump tweet and then getting forced to reverse that again looks extremely stupid. No matter what I think of Tlaib's views on the conflict in general, that grandmother argument was obviously more of a demonstration after the Israeli government had already messed up.
Yep, the government aren't blameless in all of this, nor is Trump of course. It was basically a shit show from all parties involved.
I think the main issue in this case is that they are members of the US Congress, the same body which has reliably approved massive military 'aid' for Israel over the years, way beyond what is actually required to help maintain Israeli security. As such, they are representatives of a population whose tax dollars pay for that aid, so it's reasonable to expect them to be allowed entry, whatever their personal views or intent. So it's not quite like the UK banning, say, Geert Wilders, despite the close relations between the UK and the Netherlands.
I happen to think this was largely a stunt (certainly on Tlaib's part), but that is part of politics. And there has been a never-ending stream of pro-Israeli US politicians going on standard, boring delegations over there for years which have only served to help maintain the unequal status quo, so a bit of balance should be welcomed.
The fact that they are Congresspeople is certainly relevant, but so too is Israeli law (namely the 2017 anti-BDS law) and the government's right to now allow foreign officials to engage in any incitement that contradicts Israeli policy.
What Tlaib (and Omar) should've done is negotiated a visit through Israeli officials and taken the time to visit with both sides. That was obviously never going to happen since they are both advancing policies that are in contravention to both official U.S. and Israeli policies on the matter.
That law is authoritarian and bullshit (not to mention counterproductive from an Israeli POV), and in normal circumstances should have reasonable members of Congress questioning the basis for the continuation of the flow of military aid anyway. Unfortunately today it seems like much if not most of US political officialdom is on board with that kind of approach to dissent.
Be that is it may its still an official law on the books, and since Trump and Bibi are in charge, they are going to call the shots on how bilateral policy is framed. If they are in any way collaborating on that front (which they obviously are), then the likes of Tlaib, Omar, and anyone else will have to play within those rules. The US giving Israel money for stuff isn't going to change since Trump and Bibi are running the show.
Politically it was a clear win for Tlaib and Omar imo, and a disaster for Israel (not that Netanyahu will care much, as I suspect). I mean, if even AIPAC of all organizations is feeling the need to protest the government's stance...
I think both parties can claim victory. Trump and Bibi managed to thwart a propaganda effort by a couple of anti-Israeli congresswomen and the anti-Israel crowd can claim some sort of victory that they think can add fuel to the BDS movement. At the end of the day, nothing will change in terms of policy.
Only by handing them a much larger propaganda victory.
It won't matter since I doubt Trump or Bibi care what others think. They have all the power and can affect policy as they please, and their supporters will see this as a win where they rebuffed and humiliated a couple of people seeking to conduct their own propaganda against them.
Netanyahu will care deeply about anything that might affect his chances in the upcoming elections, since remaining in power may be his only shot at avoiding prison. As it is he is not polling well, and while this move may energize those to his right (and US recognition of annexation of parts of the West Bank certainly will), it may also dismay his large centrist following which has stuck with him for successfully maintaining the status quo at little cost, but is increasingly fed up with his corruption, authoritarianism, and partisan involvement in US politics. There's a real alternative now for these voters to jump ship to. So it's a fine balance he's threading, and a quick look at how past Israeli PMs have tended to fall from grace suggests Netanyahu may be in for a spot of bother in the future.
Will they? I can think of a few examples of people resisting unjust laws down the centuries.
They don't have any choice. If they can't get into Israel, all they can do is moan about it on social media. They have no power beyond that.
Bringing religion into it is pointless. Not all supporters of Israel are Jewish, and not all Jewish people support Israel.
You're opening yourself up to accusations of anti-antisemitism
I don't see any difference in people.
Israel has gone pretty far right as a government. That is what I am against.
The treatment of Palestinians.
As I said I could have put it all better.
Here we go...
Important to note that Netanyahu has a (mostly well-deserved) reputation for extreme caution when it comes to the status quo. This thread explains his apparent change:
Important to note that Netanyahu has a (mostly well-deserved) reputation for extreme caution when it comes to the status quo. This thread explains his apparent change: