Israel - Iran and regional players | Please post respectfully and stay on topic

Iran has a hit list of former Trump aides. The U.S. is scrambling to protect them.
U.S. officials are coming to a troubling realization about Iran’s repeated threats to kill Donald Trump and some of his former top generals and national security strategists: Tehran isn’t bluffing — and it isn’t giving up anytime soon.
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“This is extraordinarily serious,” said Matt Olsen, the Justice Department’s assistant attorney general for national security. “Iran has made it very clear that they are determined to seek retaliation against former officials in connection with the Soleimani strike.”
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https://www.politico.com/news/2024/10/11/iran-trump-assassination-plans-00183488
 
africanspur said:
I'm sorry, I can't take you seriously when you say things like Israel would be defeated by the likes of Hamas in a week. The UK provides minimal weaponry to Israel. They undoubtedly receive huge amounts of money from the USA but have one of the largest exports in the world when it comes to the defence industry.

Israel have fought nation state Arab armies in the past and won. Handily. It's a huge part of the reason we're in this current situation.

Jordan, with respect, is not Egypt.
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Israel has always been hugely supported. Sure Arab infighting and land grabs hasn't helped but to suggest Israel won wars independently is absurd.

Israel does have, as I suggested in my initial post, weaponry but even a quick search will show you that this weaponry is not minimal. Weapons production facilities in Israel were/are funded by likes of USA and UK and then the weapons produced purchased and given to Israel. Basically they get money and weapons in all sorts of absurd ways.

Israeli military is largely reservists and even in rankings comes in at around 17th.
 
Roane said:
Israel has always been hugely supported. Sure Arab infighting and land grabs hasn't helped but to suggest Israel won wars independently is absurd.

Israel does have, as I suggested in my initial post, weaponry but even a quick search will show you that this weaponry is not minimal. Weapons production facilities in Israel were/are funded by likes of USA and UK and then the weapons produced purchased and given to Israel. Basically they get money and weapons in all sorts of absurd ways.

Israeli military is largely reservists and even in rankings comes in at around 17th.
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There was little to no help in the war of 1948, which is the only war Israel was the underdog. It was supported by France and the UK in the Suez crisis, but opposed by the US and USSR. It defeated the Arabs in the 6 day wars, in 6 days, without any help. And in the 1973 war, it had some help in the form of hardware by the US, but by that time, it was in a full scale offensive.
 
Revan said:
There was little to no help in the war of 1948, which is the only war Israel was the underdog. It was supported by France and the UK in the Suez crisis, but opposed by the US and USSR. It defeated the Arabs in the 6 day wars, in 6 days, without any help. And in the 1973 war, it had some help in the form of hardware by the US, but by that time, it was in a full scale offensive.
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Interestingly, Czechoslovak weapons were crucial for Israel in 1948.
 
VorZakone said:
Interestingly, Czechoslovak weapons were crucial for Israel in 1948.
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Of course, but that wasn’t them being helped. They managed to buy weapons from Czechoslovakia, while the Arab leaders were deciding who will command the armies. There was little to no direct support by Western powers (albeit Golda Meier managed to get lots of money in the US by private US citizens who were Jewish).
 
Roane said:
Israel has always been hugely supported. Sure Arab infighting and land grabs hasn't helped but to suggest Israel won wars independently is absurd.

Israel does have, as I suggested in my initial post, weaponry but even a quick search will show you that this weaponry is not minimal. Weapons production facilities in Israel were/are funded by likes of USA and UK and then the weapons produced purchased and given to Israel. Basically they get money and weapons in all sorts of absurd ways.

Israeli military is largely reservists and even in rankings comes in at around 17th.
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What is absurd is to suggest that Israel would 'lose a war' to Hamas, within one week, without any help.

I didn't even say that Israel is independent. Nobody is. The Arabs were also supported by the Soviets. That's the way it goes and was a big part of the reason Sadat eventually moved away from the Soviet sphere.

What is all this military funding the UK gives to Israel to build weapons in Israel?

Those ranking are almost always rubbish. For instance, Egypt always ranks highly, purely because of the sheer volume of equipment they have and their manpower,completely ignoring the fact their military exists almost purely as a business for the generals to plunder the country.

Regardless, 17th in the world, for a country of 9 million people is not something to be sniffed at.
 
Revan said:
There was little to no help in the war of 1948, which is the only war Israel was the underdog. It was supported by France and the UK in the Suez crisis, but opposed by the US and USSR. It defeated the Arabs in the 6 day wars, in 6 days, without any help. And in the 1973 war, it had some help in the form of hardware by the US, but by that time, it was in a full scale offensive.
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This massively underplays the amount of help Israel received from the USA in 73 I think.
 
Roane said:
Israel has always been hugely supported. Sure Arab infighting and land grabs hasn't helped but to suggest Israel won wars independently is absurd.

Israel does have, as I suggested in my initial post, weaponry but even a quick search will show you that this weaponry is not minimal. Weapons production facilities in Israel were/are funded by likes of USA and UK and then the weapons produced purchased and given to Israel. Basically they get money and weapons in all sorts of absurd ways.

Israeli military is largely reservists and even in rankings comes in at around 17th.
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Using Global Military rankings tabloid charts shows you know nothing about military matters.

Your takes have been eyebrow raising to downright just...wrong.

africanspur said:
What is absurd is to suggest that Israel would 'lose a war' to Hamas, within one week, without any help.

I didn't even say that Israel is independent. Nobody is. The Arabs were also supported by the Soviets. That's the way it goes and was a big part of the reason Sadat eventually moved away from the Soviet sphere.

What is all this military funding the UK gives to Israel to build weapons in Israel?

Those ranking are almost always rubbish. For instance, Egypt always ranks highly, purely because of the sheer volume of equipment they have and their manpower,completely ignoring the fact their military exists almost purely as a business for the generals to plunder the country.

Regardless, 17th in the world, for a country of 9 million people is not something to be sniffed at.
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Correct.

Egypt ranks highly because it has a lot of paper Western Equipment, most of which are old, poorly maintained or downright nerfed like their F16s.
 
Revan said:
Of course, but that wasn’t them being helped. They managed to buy weapons from Czechoslovakia, while the Arab leaders were deciding who will command the armies. There was little to no direct support by Western powers (albeit Golda Meier managed to get lots of money in the US by private US citizens who were Jewish).
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Johnson gave Golda hundreds of thousands when weapons from Czechoslovakia were bought and don't undermine the embargo put on the Arabs. Furthermore the top officers were British in some of the "Arab" legions.
 
africanspur said:
We don't really need to imagine, we can look at the actual event that happened. Where none of this multi front fantasy occurred.

Does this perhaps not indicate to you that it wasn't some mastermind operation planned across multiple fronts to 'destroy' Israel but an attack by one group. Or did Hezbollah and the Houthis not set their alarms on the 7th?
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Alarms… right. Absolute fantasy.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/12/world/middleeast/hamas-israel-war.html

 
Raoul said:
Good read. The bit about the attack being delayed due to Sinwar’s attempts to enlist the help of Hezbollah and the IRGC suggests Hamas struggled to get full coordination from the latter two. It’s also an indictment on Israeli intelligence for not acting on their intel in the weeks and days preceding the attack.
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Good point on not acting. Therefor I dont like the usual simplistic shortcut that is usualy made in cases like this one. “The intelligence failed.” No, it didnt. The intelligence is in majority cases spot on. It’s the interpretation and not acting on, that is the cause of subsequent events. My bet would be, that the October 7 investigation will come to the same conclusion.
 
africanspur said:
Tried. Tried being the operative word. It didn't happen. Jesus christ.
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No. The whole discussion was “what-if” scenario. You acted like only talking about it is the cause not to be taken seriously. Well, you have been proven to be wrong to the full extent.
 
Giggsy PO said:
No. The whole discussion was “what-if” scenario. You acted like only talking about it is the cause not to be taken seriously. Well, you have been proven to be wrong to the full extent.
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No. You created the what if scenario (including simaltaneous attacks from all directions) and were using that as justification for what Israel is doing now.

I was talking about the real life situation. Where that didn't happen.

Hope that helps.
 
africanspur said:
No. You created the what if scenario (including simaltaneous attacks from all directions) and were using that as justification for what Israel is doing now.

I was talking about the real life situation. Where that didn't happen.

Hope that helps.
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What would help is not making things up. The scenario “I created” proved to be a viable and discussed option amongs IRGC proxies (not a fantasy). For various reason it didnt happen (luckily).
 
Giggsy PO said:
What would help is not making things up. The scenario “I created” proved to be a viable and discussed option amongs IRGC proxies (not a fantasy). For various reason it didnt happen (luckily).
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I'm sure you'll be applying the same logic to Israel and all the plans and threats it has made then?
 


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Nothing to see here. Perfectly normal, just ignoring any international laws and blatantly state you don't give a feck and will commit war crimes without conscience or consequence.

I hate to bring Godwin's law in to play but I sincerely believe Netanyahu is well on his way to becoming the 2nd most evil tyrant the modern world has ever seen.
 
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I would not take the word of this publication sourcing it back to the IDF as evidence.
 
AfonsoAlves said:
Low heat combustion WP rounds usually used for Armoured Vehicle screening...

Why the feck would you fire this on a UN peacekeeper base....
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Is it that difficult to know why? This is very easy to know the motive behind it.
 
AfonsoAlves said:
Low heat combustion WP rounds usually used for Armoured Vehicle screening...

Why the feck would you fire this on a UN peacekeeper base....
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to drive them out and make them suffer? there isn't some hidden motive behind what israel is doing here or in gaza.
 
Giggsyking said:
Is it that difficult to know why? This is very easy to know the motive behind it.
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berbatrick said:
to drive them out and make them suffer? there isn't some hidden motive behind what israel is doing here or in gaza.
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Racism, zionism doesn't explain the strategic stupidity to piss off the World even more.

This serves nothing more than base cruelty for the sake of it.
 
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