Isn't it odd that only white brazilians are attending the games?

[Marcosdeto]

the other day i was watching the game between Brazil and Mexico and i started looking at the grades trying to find african american brazilians among the fans but there seemed to be very few of them

in a country where 50 percent of the population is not white, is at least odd, that almost 100 percent of white people are attending to the games

isnt it?

 

[Lothar]

Not when you consider the tickets cost a bit of money.

 

[Kaos]

Not odd either considering the vast majority of impoverished Brazilians are non-white, and that they have a harder time nailing down the better paying jobs.

There was an excellent article on it from The Economist a few years back, here it is:

http://www.economist.com/node/21543494

 

[Vato]

I'm saying 3 people will receive a warning and one will get banned by page 3.

 

[Attila]

Yeah I noticed this as well. It's pretty strange....at first I thought maybe the majority of Brazilians are white but if you're correct in saying that they're only 50 percent of the population then it is verydisappointing.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Not when you consider the tickets cost a bit of money.

Indeed. However, that this is the reason is probably more to marcos' point.

 

[Marcosdeto]

Yeah I noticed this as well. It's pretty strange....at first I thought maybe the majority of Brazilians are white but if you're correct in saying that they're only 50 percent of the population then it is verydisappointing.

according to wikipedia, almost 48 percent of the brazilian population is white, un percent is asian, and the rest are black or pardo -mestizo y presume-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil

 

[Marcosdeto]

Indeed. However, that this is the reason is probably more to marcos' point.

thank you Doc, that was exactly my point

 

[Scarecrow]

http://sports.ndtv.com/fifa-world-c...s-world-cup-crowd-mostly-white-wealthy-survey

Brasilia: Most Brazilians attending World Cup matches are white, wealthy and dissatisfied with leftist President Dilma Rousseff's government, said a survey published on Sunday.

Spoiler

Of the Brazilian fans attending Saturday's round of 16 match between the host nation and Chile, 75 percent were men, 67 percent were white and 90 percent were middle-class or wealthier, pollsters Datafolha found.

It said there was little sign in the stadiums of the rising middle class that has emerged under Rousseff and her predecessor, fellow leftist Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva.

Only nine percent of Brazilian fans were from the so-called "C Class," the lower-middle-class income bracket defined as monthly earnings of $500 to $2,000 -- which now covers 49 percent of Brazil's population.

Sixty percent of those interviewed said their incomes were more than 10 times the minimum wage of 724 reals ($320) per month, Datafolha said.

The racial make-up of the crowd was also different from Brazil as a whole: More than half the country's 200 million people have African roots.

Datafolha said 55 percent of those interviewed disapproved of Rousseff's performance, nearly double the figure in its June poll of the general population, when just 28 percent of people said they disapproved of the president's performance.

However, 61 percent of respondents said they did not think it was right that fans shouted a profanity-laced insult at Rousseff at the World Cup opening match in Sao Paulo on June 12.

The jeers caused controversy in Brazil, where many Rousseff supporters said they only reflected the views of a wealthy minority.

Rousseff is up for reelection in October and faces growing discontent over an economic slowdown, rising inflation, accusations of corruption and the record $11 billion spent on the World Cup.

But she currently leads in the polls, with 39 percent of voters backing her candidacy, according to a CNI Ibope survey earlier this month.

Her top rival, Social Democratic Senator Aecio Neves, had 21 percent support, and socialist ex-governor Eduardo Campos, a former ally, 10 percent.

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/poll-white-rich-fill-world-cup-stadiums-24356430
Poll: White, Rich Fill Brazil World Cup Stadiums

Spoiler

A poll published Sunday on the wealth and race of fans who attended a World Cup match in Brazil illustrated what any TV viewer in the nation has seen: Those attending games are overwhelmingly white and rich.

That's particularly striking in Brazil, with its highly mixed population that has more blacks than any country with the exception of Nigeria. More than half of Brazil's population self-identified themselves as black or of mixed-race in the 2010 census.

A Datafolha polling group survey published in the Folha de S. Paulo newspaper showed that at Saturday's Brazil versus Chile match, 67 percent of attendees classified themselves as white and 90 percent came from Brazil's top two economic classes, which represent about 15 percent of the country's population.

Similar trends have been seen at other Cup matches, though no polls were carried out previously.

The Datafolha poll was based on interviews with 693 fans at the Mineirao stadium in Belo Horizonte and had a statistical margin of error of 4 percentage points.

"Sure, there are only whites in the stadium. It comes down to money," said Ana Beatriz Ferreira, a 27-year-old parking attendant in Rio de Janeiro, who is black. "Nobody I know could find affordable tickets."

That's become a common refrain in Brazil — where the billions spent to build new or upgrade existing football stadiums both raised public ire about how the money was spent and has already caused ticket prices for Brazilian national soccer league matches to rise sharply. Some fans complain that's turned what were once affordable, raucous stadium experiences in Brazil into more costly and less spontaneous visits to storied stadiums like Rio's Maracana.

Ferreira added that while the entire Brazilian population has suffered during preparations for the World Cup, mostly because of big construction projects that have snarled traffic and extended already long commutes for the poor who live on the outskirts of cities, she feels like only the rich are reaping the benefits of the real World Cup experience.

"All I got was an extra hour on the bus to work, but I can't get a seat at the stadium," she said as she directed cars toward a mall's parking garage in Rio's wealthy southern zone.

Face-value prices for the Brazil versus Chile match officially ranged from $200 to $25 for Brazilians, the cheapest tickets making up roughly 5 percent of those sold. They were only available for students, senior citizens or poor people who participate in a government welfare program.

The prices are tough for ordinary Brazilians to afford. The minimum wage in the country is $330 a month, just about what Ferreira said she earns.

In an emailed statement, FIFA said that during group stage matches, it sold a total of 143,364 of the cheapest tickets, which amounted to roughly 3,000 such tickets available per match.

Those quickly sold out, locking out the vast majority of fans in soccer-mad Brazil.

Marcos Carvalho, an 18-year-old Brazilian fan who was hanging out near the Estadio Nacional in Brasilia before Brazil played Cameroon earlier this week, said that he "didn't even try getting tickets, they were too expensive."

"There was no way we could afford them," he said. "We'll just watch the match at home, it's all we can do. We are seeing everyone going to the stadium, everyone happy, but we won't be going."

 

[Maksimilian]

The latest results show that 48% are white (Meaning of European/Middle Eastern background), and only 8% are of Black African descent. The Mulatto (Meaning mixed race) constitute 43% of the population. This mulatto group is so ethnically mixed and diverse that some look whiter, some look blacker, some look more indiginous etc. Brazil is still a predominately White nation but there isnt as much of a color barrier in the country as there is America/England/South Africa etc. Most of Latin America is pretty open-minded in fact. Ide doubt anyone from Brazil even notices.

Another question, why are the players from Equador, Colombia, Chile, Costa Rica, France etc prdominately black when white-Europeans make up the majority population of these nations?

 

[quackattack]

Not odd either considering the vast majority of impoverished Brazilians are non-white, and that they have a harder time nailing down the better paying jobs.

There was an excellent article on it from The Economist a few years back, here it is:

http://www.economist.com/node/21543494

Nice picture in the article! Oh, speaking of the article...It is very good (as with most exonomist stuff). It is the reality of the Brazilian society.

 

[mattd86]

the other day i was watching the game between Brazil and Mexico and i started looking at the grades trying to find african american brazilians among the fans but there seemed to be very few of them

in a country where 50 percent of the population is not white, is at least odd, that almost 100 percent of white people are attending to the games

isnt it?

You've probably not seen many African American Brazilians because I don't think there are many black dual nationality US / Brazilian citizens in Brazil.

 

[x42bn6]

Also, I think most of the Afro-Brazilian population is concentrated in one state, Bahia - which also happens to be one of the poorer states in Brazil. The concentration might be due to the legacy of slavery and colonialism in Brazil. Bahia has one stadium in Salvador participating in the World Cup.

I don't know enough about the history of Brazil to comment further (i.e. whether there is latent discrimination or poverty along racial lines), though.

 

[Agent Red]

the other day i was watching the game between Brazil and Mexico and i started looking at the grades trying to find african american brazilians among the fans but there seemed to be very few of them

in a country where 50 percent of the population is not white, is at least odd, that almost 100 percent of white people are attending to the games

isnt it?

Is 'African American' used for South American nations as well? Never heard it used in that context

I don't know the answer but suspect it's economic, with white Brazilians more likely to be in higher paying jobs and hence able to afford tickets

 

[villain]

Ah the plight of black people in South America, thats too much politics for an afternoon thread

 

[7th level red]

inequality in south america is a shame which south americans should feel terrible about and make a priority in changing.

 

[MTF]

Only 7.6% of the population is black. 43.1% is "mixed" and 47.7% are white (2010 census). Point being simply that you wouldn't expect to look at any crowd of Brazilians and conclude that the "average color" (made up concept) is black. I think that is something not even Brazilians are fully aware of, this country simply isn't that dark skinned on average.

As far as the tickets, its a product in very high demand, consting a fair amount of money. Even when considering discounted prices the process of actually buying a ticket is not so simple where I would expect someone not very educated and not travelled at all to be able to actually get one, even if he has the money. Buying tickets for your regular matches here, even say a Libertadores final, is a matter of queing extra early outsides the stadium or the club to eventually hand over cash to get a ticket (not nominal, no specific seats, etc.). Buying a WC ticket has been a fully online process, requiring a credit card, a basic undestanding of how such a website is organized, etc.

But isnt this to be expected even at a WC in Europe? Most tickets taken by people with higher disposable income and a higher level of education? The only great difference in that in Brazil not being educated or having just high school is a lower baseline than the European equivalent.

Edit: Sorry, hadn't seen Maksimilian had posted the same census data.

 

[I_live_cement]

Another question, why are the players from Equador, Colombia, Chile, Costa Rica, France etc prdominately black when white-Europeans make up the majority population of these nations?

Do they?

The majority of those populations may self identify as white European in the census however I'd imagine the majority would actually be mestizo. Compare the average Equadorian/Colombian to the average Argentinian/Uruguayan, they look different.

 

[BlueCelery]

Wait, so these two constitute as white in Brazil?

How does the average black man in Brazil look then? Excuse the ignorance.

 

[I_live_cement]

Wait, so these two constitute as white in Brazil?

How does the average black man in Brazil look then? Excuse the ignorance.

Re-read the thread title.

 

[mariposa]

Bread and circuses for the wealthy, built by the blood of the poor. Qatar is the ultimate embodiment of this, although the forceful displacement in Brazil have bordered on what the nazis did. Mark on your door, next day your out.

A centralized body of corrupt old men who decide what goes down in the most lucrative sport in the world(?), and this is what we get.

The world body of football badly needs to be restructured.

 

[Scarecrow]

Bread and circuses for the wealthy, built by the blood of the poor. Qatar is the ultimate embodiment of this, although the forceful displacement in Brazil have bordered on what the nazis did. Mark on your door, next day your out.

A centralized body of corrupt old men who decide what goes down in the most lucrative sport in the world(?), and this is what we get.

The world body of football badly needs to be restructured.

Wow . We got there pretty quickly.

 

[Chorley1974]

Do they?

The majority of those populations may self identify as white European in the census however I'd imagine the majority would actually be mestizo. Compare the average Equadorian/Colombian to the average Argentinian/Uruguayan, they look different.

Agree with this, the majority would appear to be mixed race. It surprises me that the majority of the population describes themselves as white European, those that I know wouldn't. Without the options on the census it's difficult to draw any conclusions.

 

[adexkola]

I asked @Mockney about this.

 

[Maksimilian]

Wait, so these two constitute as white in Brazil?

How does the average black man in Brazil look then? Excuse the ignorance.

Im sorry but when I look at Dani Alves and Neymar I never think black.....I always think Mulatto. They obviously dont look black (like Drogba or Etoo) and they definitly dont look white (Like Beckham or Ronaldo). Looking at them anyone should be able to see that they are of mixed heritage.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

african american brazilians

 

[Ish]

African American brazillians Marcos? Don't you just mean black or non-white Brazillians?

Unless you were really looking for some African Americans in Brazil? . I'm just joking around. I know what you meant.

You'll find a similar problem/issue here in SA tbf. Our wealth dispersion in the country is almost an inverse of our general population composition.

Whites, being the minority, are the wealthiest and the Africans (blacks), being the vast majority, are the poorest.

It's something we're working on correcting, but yeah, it's a long process.

I assume it's the same reasons in Brazil - the white Brazillians are economically, better off then the Blacks. And hence they're predominantly the ones attending expensive world cup matches.

 

[Marcosdeto]

I was trying to be politically correct, we will call them "negros" and if they are of mixed race "mulatos", but in argentina, or south america it doesnt have the same connotation that it has in other countries

 

[Maksimilian]

Agree with this, the majority would appear to be mixed race. It surprises me that the majority of the population describes themselves as white European, those that I know wouldn't. Without the options on the census it's difficult to draw any conclusions.

You two are basing this on what exactly? The players uve seen for them at the World Cup? Its like watching the Dream team at th Olympics and thinking the majority of Americans were African. Dont worry I used to think the same thing about the countries before i investigated further. PS I should have been clear that i meant White European or Indigenous

Equador : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecuadorian_people

63% Metzido (European/Indigenous mix)
6% Whites
7% Indigionous (Known as Amerindians)
7% African

Colombia : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Colombia

49% Metzito (European/Indigenous mix)
43 % European
10 % African-European or African-Indiginous mix
1% Indigenous

Chile : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_chile

65 % Metzito (European-Indigenous mix)
30% European
5% Indigenous

Costa Rica : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Costa_Rica

65% European
13 % Metzito (European/Indigneous mix)
7% Mulatto (European/African mix)
2% Indigenous
1 % Black

Argentina and Uruguay - predominately White-European countries
Venezuela and Peru - Only countries were indigenous people make up a substantial number of the population (Over 30%) along with Mestizos.
Paraguay - predominately Mestizo country (95%).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Based on this you can easily say :

Chile :
Sanchez and Vidal - Metzito

Columbia :
James Rodriguez - European
Cuardado - African European/African Indigenous
Falcao - African European (Ive seen a documentary where his father is black and his mother is white)

Costa Rica :
Brian Ruiz - European
Campbell - Mulatto

Equador :
Valencia - African mix

Argentina :
Messi/Mascherano/Higuain etc - European
Di Maria - Metzito

Brazil :
European - Oscar/David Luiz
Mulatto - Neymar, Thiago Silva, Dani Alvez
African - Ramires?

 

[Marcosdeto]

good post Maksimilian, only one thing, the word is "Mestizo", no Metzito

cheers

 

[alastair]

Mulatto is a pretty difficult term to adequately define in this setting, I think. And in general.

 

[Maksimilian]

Mulatto is a pretty difficult term to adequately define in this setting, I think. And in general.

Correct. Each country has their own interpretation. Somewhere it means European/Black, in other places European/Indigenous, in others Black/Indenous, and in some places European/Black/Indigenous.

 

[antohan]

Only 7.6% of the population is black. 43.1% is "mixed" and 47.7% are white (2010 census). Point being simply that you wouldn't expect to look at any crowd of Brazilians and conclude that the "average color" (made up concept) is black. I think that is something not even Brazilians are fully aware of, this country simply isn't that dark skinned on average.

As far as the tickets, its a product in very high demand, consting a fair amount of money. Even when considering discounted prices the process of actually buying a ticket is not so simple where I would expect someone not very educated and not travelled at all to be able to actually get one, even if he has the money. Buying tickets for your regular matches here, even say a Libertadores final, is a matter of queing extra early outsides the stadium or the club to eventually hand over cash to get a ticket (not nominal, no specific seats, etc.). Buying a WC ticket has been a fully online process, requiring a credit card, a basic undestanding of how such a website is organized, etc.

But isnt this to be expected even at a WC in Europe? Most tickets taken by people with higher disposable income and a higher level of education? The only great difference in that in Brazil not being educated or having just high school is a lower baseline than the European equivalent.

Edit: Sorry, hadn't seen Maksimilian had posted the same census data.

No, it isn't. You are spot on though, the average "afro-Brazilian" wouldn't command the elementary understanding of how a website is organised, let alone manage to process a transaction. It isn't of course the same in Europe and that's the root of the misunderstanding, the average European would have thought the internet is the ideal way to make ticketing a democratic process with equal access. Of course it is not.

Personally, I think tickets were cheap enough for anyone to access them, CAT4s are what 20 bucks? Not exactly someone's lifetime savings. Of course when you consider most games don't involve Brazil and often require traveling... that suddenly requires being relatively well off. All-in-all, the average person paying those low ticket prices could afford to pay much more anyway.

Stadiums were a lot more mixed than being made out to be, mind, but you could see it was mostly "middle" middle class and up, with few exceptions.

 

[antohan]

good post Maksimilian, only one thing, the word is "Mestizo", no Metzito

cheers

Yeah, that sounded like a new Pepsico snack.

 

[Mr. P Mosh]

The same happens with Honduras, if you're not familiar with that country and just watch at their NT you'd think they're mostly black or mulatto, when over 80% of the country is European-Amerindian mestizo.

Most Hondurans vary between Johnny Leveron (castizo) and Andy Najar (mestizo with dominant Amerindian features):

----

Honduras, Colombia, Costa Rica and Ecuador have their own "black" states and I'm sure none of them have over 10% of black population yet those poor states are the ones who produce some if not most of their best athletes... the most "extreme" case is Ecuador, where 10 of the 23 Ecuador players where from Esmeraldas, a mostly black populated province wich only has 3% of the country's population.... without counting Antonio Valencia who both parents are Esmeraldeños.

 

[antohan]

Mulatto is a pretty difficult term to adequately define in this setting, I think. And in general.

Technically, mulato is the mix of black and white, mestizo the mix of white and indigenous population, and zambo the mix of black and indigenous. In practice, of course, that was far more useful when the process started a few hundred years ago, by now they are all largely a mixed bunch.

 

[adexkola]

Why are black Brazilians behind the curve in Brazil?

I can point to slavery, Jim Crow/de facto segregation, and punitive urban crime laws in the United States as a primary cause for the current lag of African Americans in the US. In South Africa the legacy of Apartheid still lingers, which means the majority black population there still have some catching up to do.

Brazil imported more than 40% of slaves transported during the Atlantic Slave Trade. They didn't disappear into the ether, so what happened after slavery was abolished in the late 1800s? And whatever happened, has it been acknowledged, and are measures being taken to reduce the massive inequality in Brazilian society?

Around the time that slaves were freed, in 1888, the government sought to whiten its population through the importation of European immigrants. This idea was made law by Decree 528 in 1890 and opened the country’s borders to foreign immigrants, except for those from Africa and Asia.

http://newpittsburghcourieronline.c...ty-and-racism-collide-in-brazil-at-world-cup/

Here is the abstract of a paper on race politics and identification in Brazil.

The search to define Brazil and Brazilians by colour, more specifically by a miscegenation so extreme that it appears exceptional, is longstanding. Mid-nineteenth century naturalists that visited the country from Europe were astounded by the lush vegetation, the wide variety of fauna, and another phenomena – a type of unprecedented laboratory of humans and their various races. Local intellectuals also focused on the racial theme, but more as explanation for their perceptions of national degeneration than racial mixture. It is from these origins that debate reappears as an official model in the 1930s and persists until today in notions about what makes Brazil unique. After an introduction of this historical context, and rejecting the myth of racial democracy, this paper reflects on the impasses of race anew and from a different perspective attuned to contemporary problems. The central question that remains is whether race is a social and economic variable or whether Brazilian identities are dispersed across a wide rainbow of color. The goal of this paper is to use recent census and 1996 PNAD data that reveal 136 categories for Brazilians to identify several specific characteristics of this debate. This analysis implies a more political discussion of the limits of citizenship in a country where the color line is always viewed subjectively and contextually. The maxim of the sixteenth century Jesuit, Antonil, that “Brazil is hell for negros, purgatory for whites, and paradise for mulattos” still appears to resonate.

 

[antohan]

The same happens with Honduras, if you're not familiar with that country and just watch at their NT you'd think they're mostly black or mulatto, when over 80% of the country is European-Amerindian mestizo.

It is what happens when for certain sections of the population football is the only way out of poverty. While the "average" person will try to get schooling, keep options open and play football on the side, the "non-average" will largely focus on the only way out, leading to a disproportionate number of them "making it". The issue with that obviously is, where does it leave those who simply turn out not to be very good at football...

 

[Mr.Plow]

Bryan Luiz European?

 

[Mr. P Mosh]

It is what happens when for certain sections of the population football is the only way out of poverty. While the "average" person will try to get schooling, keep options open and play football on the side, the "non-average" will largely focus on the only way out, leading to a disproportionate number of them "making it". The issue with that obviously is, where does it leave those who simply turn out not to be very good at football...

Definitely, there's also a bit of a "positive" discrimination, sort of "we found a good player there, there must be many more"... it's strange Mexico has little to non existant mulatto (we have also our poor coastal provinces with marjority of mulattoes) players playing in the top level, but I guess it's because for a long time Mexican football has been pretty centralized between Mexico City & Jalisco and just recently started searching gems in the rest of the country... the lack of height in some positions could be solved if the Northern states were scouted better.