Its a bit of both isn't it. Terrorism and religious extremism tend to thrive nicely in economically impoverished areas in the Muslim world, and raising the standard of living would definitely help defuse a lot of it. That obviously doesn't explain why its happening in Europe though.
ISIS in Iraq and Syria
- Thread starter Suli
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It's difficult to know how to respond to James Foley's beheading. I have not watched the video of Foley's execution but listening to the speech before it, it's a stark reminder that this extreme, Islamic ideology is not just a problem for the Middle East but also at home. I should imagine it's a very small percentage of those who hold similar views as the British Muslim who murdered Foley who will act on those views, but we only need to remember 911 to realise that it doesn't take an army of Jihadis to cause utter devastation.
When this face of Islam appears, I think all talk of education and reason is a waste of time. These actions should help those critical of Israel realise just what disgusting human beings those who adhere to this ideology are. Hamas are just as bad. Makes you wonder how free the people of Gaza are to publicly disagree with their Islamic leaders...
When this face of Islam appears, I think all talk of education and reason is a waste of time. These actions should help those critical of Israel realise just what disgusting human beings those who adhere to this ideology are. Hamas are just as bad. Makes you wonder how free the people of Gaza are to publicly disagree with their Islamic leaders...
Your religion used to be the same in Europe pal. The education and reason definitely isn't a waste of time.
The reformation (although it's had some teething issues) was the most substantial thing in the Christianity you see in Europe today, but that was based on a return to Biblical truth. If you argue this isn't so then you are guilty of historical revisionism. Militant Islam is a similar return to Islamic truth and the example of the Prophet. That is the fundamental difference.
The fact you think Christianity looks the way it does due to secular values (the relationship is the other way around) just demonstrates how little you know. You obviously know similarly little about Islam because you still operate under the uninformed notion the two religions are similar.
The fact that you seem to be the only person who knows biblical truth tells me all I need to know. Europe's savior has been people not reading the bible, rather than following it's real truth.
I am not the only person who knows what the Bible teaches. The gospel of Jesus Christ is very straight forward. I wasn't "churched" when I became a Christian. reading the Bible for myself, I'd have laughed if somebody had suggested I should become a Roman Catholic. The only reason people believe contrary things regarding the gospel is because their commitment is not to what the Bible actually teaches. It's an easy pattern to identify. Jehovah's witnesses have a commitment to the Watchtower and Roman Catholics have a commitment to Rome, as two prominent examples.
You missed the point, too. Secularism grew out of Christian values (you can call it an improvement if you like given your worldview). An equivalent would never have grown out of Islam in the Middle East. There's just no level of compatibility there.
The old testament's more interesting. God got his arse out there.
Secularism grew when people started questioning religion. See countries where religion persists, i.e Ireland, Ghana, Russia. It's pretty fecked up and religious doctrine continues to cause suffering. Christian values are such a vague term it's not even worth bothering with, so many domination with different values it devalues the whole term.
Education would bring compatibility. See Muslims countries in Eastern Europe post Ottoman empire.
I am going to stick to the subject since you don't like to.
extolling the virtues of secularism obviously doesn't have as much traction with these people because a number of the Muslims going to Iraq to be a part of Islamic State are brought up and educated in Britain. In fact, they resent secular culture all the more for having lived in it.
These people? Do they not live in the 20 or so secular countries with majority muslim populations? Do those countries not understand quranic truth?
500 out 2 and a half million doesn't sound like a lot to me.
I don't even understand what you're trying to say at this point; it really is incomprehensible.
There are 20 secular countries with majority muslim populations. Ergo, you're chatting shit with the no traction argument.
Let me just repeat it for you.
You're stupid if you think I am referring to all Muslims. I am referring to the particular version of Islam (I would say the one that is most like the Prophet Muhammad's Islam but that's beside the point) that motivates those in Islamic State and other extremists groups.
You're stupid if you think I am referring to all Muslims. I am referring to the particular version of Islam (I would say the one that is most like the Prophet Muhammad's Islam but that's beside the point) that motivates those in Islamic State and other extremists groups.
So why claim education is a waste of time?
Islam isn't the dangerous religious. Again, look at countries which follow your little book. Ireland, Ghana, Russia and so on.
Islam isn't the dangerous religious. Again, look at countries which follow your little book. Ireland, Ghana, Russia and so on.
I didn't say education is a waste of time in any general sense
These people are not open to reason and don't value the lives of "infidels" in the same way they do "Muslims". They literally think of you and me as little more than scum. That's why they can chop off that poor reporter's head, among other atrocities. They would do exactly the same to you and me (they'd probably do worse to me given what I believe). That's the point.
What the feck do you think the talk of education is for if not to combat that face of Islam? Do you think we're taking issue with Bosnian muslims?
Sigh.
Go on then. Go to Iraq and educate these people, Silva. Go and tell them why a Caliphate isn't what they want and why secularism is the way to go.
Missed an only in there. But my point stands. Your book is also dangerous and intellectually bankrupt.
Give me a few billion and I'd be more than happy to.
I think you're a lot more dangerous than I am.
I hope this doesn't turn into a modern day Nazi regime, with Islam used as an identifier and justification.
I'm the kind of the person who feels guilty for killing insects, if you're less dangerous than me I fear for how sad you must be.
It's what you say and the way you seem to be on a crusade against Christianity. You literally can't keep the Bible out of any discussion you engage in with me. It's as though you go out of your way to introduce your hatred for Christianity (which you've more than clearly expressed by this point) every time you see my name. It does disturb me a little bit.
It won't. ISIS' best case scenario is that their caliphate takes longer to be destroyed than the Talibans. Which it probably won't because Iraq isn't in as bad a state as Afghanistan was. And Iraq's receiving more active help than Afghanistan was. All the momentum ISIS has built will slowly die down and at worst they'll be another terrorist organization with no home and the world's biggest secret agencies hunting and killing them. ISIS army is also only a fraction of a fraction the power the Nazi's were compared the other other armies.
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I just find it funny that you think a man lived in a fish for three days. And you're awfully hypocritical so it works.
You still can't stop yourself.
Did god really get his bum out? I've brought this up so many times. Just tell me.
You're on ignore from this point on.
Think that means yes.
If I remember well the 9/11 terrorists did not come from an impoverished background.
lol that back and forth was grand.
There are A LOT of Muslim people in the western world who disagree wholeheartedly with what IS and other Islamic extremists are doing. I think they need to be taken into account before you call Muslims all kinds of derogatory things and make sweeping generalizations about the Muslim community. Like Silva says, there is a generous handful of Christians, Catholics, Athiests who do more harm than good.
There are A LOT of Muslim people in the western world who disagree wholeheartedly with what IS and other Islamic extremists are doing. I think they need to be taken into account before you call Muslims all kinds of derogatory things and make sweeping generalizations about the Muslim community. Like Silva says, there is a generous handful of Christians, Catholics, Athiests who do more harm than good.
Except, they don't blow up disco clubs in Bali murdering infidels. Neither do they blow up trains in Madrid murdering people. Neither do they blow up Buses and subways in London murdering people. Neither do they hack down a soldier in broad day light in London. Neither do they kidnap 200 school girls in Nigeria. Neither do they go and rampage pillage through villages in Nigeria. Neither... the list could go on and on.
I always smile when someone tells me, yeah Islam.. but these Christians, atheists, hindus, they also have bad people! Like it's even remotely comparable haha.
p.s. why do you say Christians and then Catholics? Last time I checked Catholics are Christians.
That is the thing. Many of the Jiahdists out there are coming from Western countries, where they have been able to enjoy education, and a social security net.
Education is one thing. Eradicating the murderous tenets of Islam is another, the religion itself needs to transform, but if that happens it wouldn't be Islam anymore.
On a big international Catholic website which has been reporting the atrocities, I saw some of the worst images I've ever seen on the internet. Parents cradling the headless body of their toddler (a little girl in a frilly pink dress, a detail which made it even more poignant), and a naked woman being held over a big bowl by half a dozen men - her throat had been slit and they were letting her bleed to death. There was also a picture of a little line of children's bodies, all had been beheaded. These were not grainy images, they were clear pictures. So it's all true, and worse. I am not easily disturbed by these things, but they were truly shocking pictures.
Hello, I love Islam and I am a proud MuslimExcept, they don't blow up disco clubs in Bali murdering infidels. Neither do they blow up trains in Madrid murdering people. Neither do they blow up Buses and subways in London murdering people. Neither do they hack down a soldier in broad day light in London. Neither do they kidnap 200 school girls in Nigeria. Neither do they go and rampage pillage through villages in Nigeria. Neither... the list could go on and on.
I always smile when someone tells me, yeah Islam.. but these Christians, atheists, hindus, they also have bad people! Like it's even remotely comparable haha.
p.s. why do you say Christians and then Catholics? Last time I checked Catholics are Christians.
...God help us...
Good for you. I love Life and I love knowing that I'm a spec of dust in this Universe. I believe in do no harm to others and treat others the way you would like to be treated.Hello, I love Islam and I am a proud Muslim
I am a proud Atheist. Inspired by Life and Love. Taking responsibility for my actions, unlike religious fellows who place responsibility with their imaginary deity.
I saw those, and all I hope is that they were somehow fake.
Can someone explain to me who is the audience they are playing to with all these graphic photos/videos? What kind of person looks at images of other human beings having their heads cut off and feels pleased about what they see? How can any rational adult person feel more sympathy with the person holding the knife than they do the person losing their life?
I just don't get it. Obviously, it appalls the vast majority of muslims the world over but is there even a tiny % that feels completely the opposite emotions? If so, who? Where are they living and how on earth can their values and emotions end up so horribly distorted? What the feck is going on here?
I just don't get it. Obviously, it appalls the vast majority of muslims the world over but is there even a tiny % that feels completely the opposite emotions? If so, who? Where are they living and how on earth can their values and emotions end up so horribly distorted? What the feck is going on here?
I read recently that Muhammad wrote a document that declared that Christians and their places of worship should be both tolerated and protected. If this is true, I wonder how these Isis people can justify their treatment of Christians?
@Pogue Mahone The people they attract with these actions are the very people that would be willing to commit such atrocities. It's like a recruitment advert for psychopaths.
I think the media shouldn't report things like this. It just gives Isis the publicity and notoriety they crave.
@Pogue Mahone The people they attract with these actions are the very people that would be willing to commit such atrocities. It's like a recruitment advert for psychopaths.
I think the media shouldn't report things like this. It just gives Isis the publicity and notoriety they crave.
Is that it, though? Is everything they do aimed at attracting interest from the tiny minority of people who would commit despicable acts on another human being, without feeling any remorse?
Only that would really be incredibly niche. I guess it's reassuring, if so. My worry is that there's a broader appeal here, perhaps to hundreds or even thousands of people. I'd like to understand who they are and how they came to think about life in that way.