I'm only commenting on the discrepancy between your misleading comment and the actual content of the article. As for my own opinion, do a search to see what I think of the Syrian rebels and the effort to find so-called 'moderates' among them.
ISIS in Iraq and Syria
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I'm only commenting on the discrepancy between your misleading comment and the actual content of the article. As for my own opinion, do a search to see what I think of the Syrian rebels and the effort to find so-called 'moderates' among them.
It's too early to be sure of anything, so adding "alleged" to that sentence would be appropriate. This article also quotes reports of a second (alleged) incident elsewhere, which the Syrian government blames on "terrorist groups".
Of course it's alleged. This happens all the time, a mouthpiece from the Syrian opposition makes a claim on the back of tenuous or no evidence and the media lap it up as Gospel.
I'm not saying there's no chance it happened, but it's honestly the easiest job being an opposition propaganda officer.
I'm not saying there's no chance it happened, but it's honestly the easiest job being an opposition propaganda officer.
Russian helicopter goes down and later in the day in that exact position a chemical attack happens, you can put 2+2 together. People are talking like they are surprised, this is the type of thing cronies like Assad and the Russians would pull.
Correct. Its not exactly rocket science especially given the regime's prior use of similar chemical agents and the close proximity to the helicopter shootdown.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/...e-gas-dropped-idlib-town-160802083551947.html
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/02/chlorine-attack-syria-dozens-ill-saraqeb-idlib
Yeah, I won't comment in this incident, but there's a dissertation waiting to be written about how basic journalistic standards have been abandoned on behalf of the Syrian opposition. Most reports seem based on someone sitting in Beirut, just off a Skype interview with a randomer in Aleppo. Or worse, based on 'opposition figures' in Beirut. Can't recall another conflict where one side has had such an easy ride in terms of their credibidility being questioned.
You cant really blame journalists for not going into Syria, ISIS get a hardon for killing them dont they?
Not at all, that's not the problem - the problem is reporting anecdotes gleaned over Skype, or from 'opposition figures', as fact, with few if any caveats or any attempt to learn or report the other side of the story.
No, but you can blame them for lapping up any tenuous story conjured up by some bloke in a apartment in Coventry who's backing an obvious horse in this war.
When CIA is involved we know we wrong.
The same again in the Kosovo war, where NATO basically provided an air force for the UCK. The propaganda was beyond stupid.
It just shows that you have to be very, very careful when it comes to reports of incidents like this. Interestingly enough, this topic disappeared very quickly from most (all?) leading news sites.
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Siege of Aleppo finally broken.
A little bit from a great article in The Independent.
More here http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...obert-fisk-west-won-t-go-to-war-a7171466.html
More here http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...obert-fisk-west-won-t-go-to-war-a7171466.html
So the siege of Aleppo failed? Anyone with credible infos about this?
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Like this one from March 2016?
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-kurds-idUSKCN0WA29B
And this one from April 2016?
http://www.voanews.com/content/kurdish-officials-rebels-may-have-used-chemicals-aleppo/3276743.html
And this one which was in the same article you quoted (but for some reason you left out)?
And many other cases, not mentioning the ones by ISIS and Al-Nusra...
Here's an update about that "chemical attack" by the way.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/syrian-regime-forces-roll-back-rebel-gains-aleppo-090429891.html
Which Aleppo? You do know that would mean that West Aleppo (where over a million people live, 6 times more than the number of people living in East Aleppo) would then be besieged right?
Right now basically both halves of Aleppo are effectively besieged. The "rebels" led by Al-Nusra are preparing a big attack on Aleppo now and are getting big reinforcements and supplies from Turkey (which they're now publicly talking about) but also from other less important fronts (leaving their defences there a bit thin in these areas like Latakia, but those don't matter much now as Aleppo is the main focus).
The situation is very fluid right now and in the next few days anything could happen, but it will not be quiet. The "rebels" are going all-in and will try to storm Aleppo (like they did with Idlib) and the regime forces are trying to maintain the siege of East Aleppo (without necessarily trying to storm it right now) and will now also go all-in to protect Aleppo from falling in the "rebels" hands.
The coming Aleppo battle is very important for both sides.
Give it time Danny.
I don't know why you've posted all those links, no ones denying any of that.
The attack that @Raoul referred to was carried out by planes, do you have any inside info as to how the rebels got hold of a plane?
This is a pretty damning indictment of Assad's Sarin gas attack a couple of years ago. Well worth a watch.
What a disgusting regime, how can the Russians and Iranians support this savage?
Geopolitics - they want to retain influence in the region. For Russia its mainly for military purposes (they have a couple of bases in Syria) and this is a pretty effective way for Putin to change the topic among Russians who are reeling from a bad economy - and for Iran its largely sectarian. The Sarin attack is just one of many reasons Assad will never be allowed to stay in power without an active insurgency working 24/7 to depose him.
Yeah, but for some reason the same people ( @Raoul , @2mufc0 ) don't seem to care about those. I wonder why?
Any chemical attack (if true), committed by anybody, is clearly a disgusting act and should be condemned.
However, when people have double standards like that, you're forced to question the credibility of these "reports", and question the motive behind posting them.
I'm all for human rights, and banning chemical (and nuclear) weapons... But when I see somebody throwing a fit about something (alleged!) while neglecting the fact that the exact same guys he is supporting is committing the exact same act, then I will call them out for their hypocrisy.
I don't know, why don't you ask the US who helped Saddam use chemical weapons for 4 years?
And by the way, you don't find the US-backed "rebels" using chemical weapons disgusting?
Excuse me, but I will have to wait for at least 15 years before believing you here, because first...
Assad did not order Syria chemical weapons attack, says German press
Bild am Sonntag cites high-level German surveillance source suggesting Syrian president was not personally behind attacks
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/08/syria-chemical-weapons-not-assad-bild
And second...
So we'll wait and see who was really behind this.
I agree mate, both sides in this conflict have carried out horrific acts and in no way can people point to any side and say that they're doing things the right way.
Absolutely. Assad is a terrible dictator, and both sides will have no problem finding bad things done by the other side. That's why for me it's not a conflict between a good side and a bad side, but rather a bad side, and an at least equally bad but much more dangerous side imo (not only for Syria, but for the whole world). And that's why I don't like selectively exploiting the suffering of some poor people just to try and help the more dangerous side win.
Why do you think that the opposition will be worse for Syria and the world?
I don't know, why don't you ask the US who helped Saddam use chemical weapons for 4 years?
And by the way, you don't find the US-backed "rebels" using chemical weapons disgusting?
Excuse me, but I will have to wait for at least 15 years before believing you here, because first...
Assad did not order Syria chemical weapons attack, says German press
Bild am Sonntag cites high-level German surveillance source suggesting Syrian president was not personally behind attacks
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/08/syria-chemical-weapons-not-assad-bild
And second...
So we'll wait and see who was really behind this.
You're using a Tu quoque fallacy to deflect from the topic at hand.
You're absolutely right.
The opposition is largely made up of extremist elements, some linked to Al Qaeda. No prizes for guessing why that's bad news for all of us.
Because they're dominated by the extremists (ISIS, Al-Nusra, Ahrar Al-Sham, ...). The real moderates have absolutely no chance. They're practically inexistent on the battle field. Just look at Idlib and Raqqa (or Afghanistan for that matter) to see what will replace Assad if he's toppled. And don't listen to me, listen to the same Kurds who were oppressed and persecuted by Assad (even more than the Arabs).
Syria civil war: Kurdish leader says collapse of Assad regime 'would be a disaster' despite its treatment of his people
Saleh Muslim tells Patrick Cockburn he is no supporter of President Bashar al-Assad, but is fearful of the dangers Islamist groups close to Damascus pose
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...would-be-a-disaster-despite-its-10515922.html
This is not the first time West Aleppo was besieged. In 2013 this is how Aleppo looked like.
And even the other outcome would be either another Idlib and Raqqa, which is even worse imo.
I tackled three separate points in the post you quoted. Hypocrisy, credibility, and an evidence contradicting your claim. Only one of them was hypocrisy, which wasn't in itself even meant to discredit the claim you made (so the Tu quoque fallacy doesn't even apply here), but rather raise another important point relevant to the debate (the other two points were the ones challenging your claim). When somebody is for example talking about being absolutely against tax evasion and how he can not believe how somebody would cheat on his taxes, it's relevant to the debate to mention to him that he himself has committed tax evasion in the past.
@Kaos @Danny1982 How do you guys see this turning out roses for Assad? What needs to be done to reach an end game where Assad stays in power and somehow regains legitimacy and acceptance in the eyes of the Muslim world? Because right now opposition fighters aren't coming Brazil or Mexico but from the Sunni muslim world and stopping the propagation of Saudi Wahhabi doctrine isn't going to lessen the horrified sentiments of over a billion people.
Sometimes I think that stopping extremists is the only thing that matters to you both but you can't just stamp it out under a boot, that tends to leave a whole other mess that needs to be cleaned.
Sometimes I think that stopping extremists is the only thing that matters to you both but you can't just stamp it out under a boot, that tends to leave a whole other mess that needs to be cleaned.
You really want to talk about hypocrisy? it's not just the chemical weapons it's the barrel bombs, air strikes on hospitals, schools and even bread factories, shooting at unarmed civilians who protested against him, and you are trying to tell people he's less dangerous
.I have my doubts about the rebels and I'm no supporter of them Red Tiger knows my thoughts on them. But someone has to liberate the Syrian people from this maniac , they don't want him there. In an ideal scenario I would like a NATO or other international coalition to go in there and cleanse Syria of this vermin, but there's no desire for that to happen from the international community. So we are where we are.
You really want to talk about hypocrisy? it's not just the chemical weapons it's the barrel bombs, air strikes on hospitals, schools and even bread factories, shooting at unarmed civilians who protested against him, and you are trying to tell people he's less dangerous
I have my doubts about the rebels and I'm no supporter of them Red Tiger knows my thoughts on them. But someone has to liberate the Syrian people from this maniac , they don't want him there. In an ideal scenario I would like a NATO or other international coalition to go in there and cleanse Syria of this vermin, but there's no desire for that to happen from the international community. So we are where we are.
I think we'll see a bit more movement on Syria if Hillary is elected.
You really want to talk about hypocrisy? it's not just the chemical weapons it's the barrel bombs, air strikes on hospitals, schools and even bread factories, shooting at unarmed civilians who protested against him, and you are trying to tell people he's less dangerous
I have my doubts about the rebels and I'm no supporter of them Red Tiger knows my thoughts on them. But someone has to liberate the Syrian people from this maniac , they don't want him there. In an ideal scenario I would like a NATO or other international coalition to go in there and cleanse Syria of this vermin, but there's no desire for that to happen from the international community. So we are where we are.
If that was the case he would have been long gone by now.
He was long gone until he called in some favours from Moscow.