ISIS in Iraq and Syria

U.S. jets abandoned Syrian rebels in the desert. Then they lost a battle to ISIS.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...n-the-desert-then-they-lost-a-battle-to-isis/
Worth saying here though for the sake of accuracy, the battle wasn't essentially lost because of the absence of air support at some point (it did contribute to the huge losses the group took though). The real reason the battle was lost is because they were counting on the people of the town to rise against ISIS and support them, which never happened, and that left them with a total of 100 fighters (with questionable skills) trying to take over an ISIS town. Not gonna happen regardless how much air power you have.

In fact, there is a good chance they abandoned the mission because they knew it's gonna fail anyway, and went for a better target instead. Because the US refused to bomb the ISIS convoy at first when the Iraqi government asked them, so the Iraqis started bombing them by themselves, and it was only later that the US joined them (probably after realising their mission in Syria has effectively failed).
 
Sounds like the message above is a correct assessment of what could and did happen, which is completely independent from the behavior of the Maliki regime from when US troops left in 2011 to when he departed in 2014.


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-30681224


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/a...ds-sunnis-on-their-treatment-in-malikis-iraq/

http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-10-...eatment-iraqi-sunnis-helped-isis-get-stronger
1- You can't use the Western propaganda as an evidence to prove the Western propaganda.

2- The secret official documents of any government is always more credible than its propaganda machine.

3- What's stated in the documents above is very clear. In 2009 and 2010 Maliki was already 4 years in power. Al-Qaeda clearly regressed in that period, and only rose again after it gained power and ground in Syria. Trying to blame Maliki for the mess your country and its allies created in Syria is the exact excuse they are expected to spread in their propaganda. The document above is one of the many evidences that expose their lies though.

4- Yes, it's an accurate assessment of what would happen, and they chose that path willingly, not unknowing what's gonna happen. So all this "Well they supported Al-Qaeda because they didn't know what would happen" excuse is clearly non-sense. They knew very well what would happen, and they were very clear too that this is exactly what their allies wanted, and they knew exactly whom they were supporting, and they still wanted to strengthen Al-Qaeda (and all the branches and groups following their ideology) in Syria just to achieve their political goals.

Oh, and while they admit in their secret documents since 2012 that the major forces driving the insurgents in Syria are the Wahhabi extremists (Brotherhood, Salafists and Al-Qaeda), they still kept spouting sh*t about the secular moderate rebels who 'just want democracy' in their propaganda machine, for years.
 
1- You can't use the Western propaganda as an evidence to prove the Western propaganda.

2- The secret official documents of any government is always more credible than its propaganda machine.

3- What's stated in the documents above is very clear. In 2009 and 2010 Maliki was already 4 years in power. Al-Qaeda clearly regressed in that period, and only rose again after it gained power and ground in Syria. Trying to blame Maliki for the mess your country and its allies created in Syria is the exact excuse they are expected to spread in their propaganda. The document above is one of the many evidences that expose their lies though.

4- Yes, it's an accurate assessment of what would happen, and they chose that path willingly, not unknowing what's gonna happen. So all this "Well they supported Al-Qaeda because they didn't know what would happen" excuse is clearly non-sense. They knew very well what would happen, and they were very clear too that this is exactly what their allies wanted, and they knew exactly whom they were supporting, and they still wanted to strengthen Al-Qaeda (and all the branches and groups following their ideology) in Syria just to achieve their political goals.

Oh, and while they admit in their secret documents since 2012 that the major forces driving the insurgents in Syria are the Wahhabi extremists (Brotherhood, Salafists and Al-Qaeda), they still kept spouting sh*t about the secular moderate rebels who 'just want democracy' in their propaganda machine, for years.

1 - The links I provided are only western propaganda because you disagree with what they are saying. These included a Lebanese professor at LSE who is a leading Middle East expert, Iraqi sunni politicians who worked with Maliki when he was in power, and a documentary filmmaker who interviewed a lot of people. Anyone who was in Iraq during Maliki's terms (such as myself) knows about the sectarian tensions that underpinned that period and his inability to deal with them.

2. These are only a small selection of documents that have been published. There may be more that provide an alternate perspective that you don't have access to, so rather than cherry picking things you agree with from Wikileaks or the like, it's better to look at a broader swath of information that's available from journalists, civil society, government etc. and then form a more holistic view.

3. Al-Qaeda regressed at that point not because of Maliki, but because the US were beating them into submission with intense pressure, military power, and special forces raids to disrupt AQ networks, the help of the Sons of Iraq movement, and other factors. Once the US left in late 2011, the Sunni elements who were helping tamp AQ down in Anbar and elsewhere became disillusioned with Maliki's tactics, which eventually allowed extremists to gain traction again. But the important point is that Maliki had little to do with AQ regressing up to that point - as the new Iraqi Army and Police were still in training and not fully capable of dealing with a full blown sectarian insurgency. This also includes dealing with Shi'a terrorism ranging from the Mehdi Army to Asa'ib al-Haq and others. I was in Iraq and working intimately with senior Iraqi politicians including within Maliki's inner circle of advisors. Much of his time in office was a struggle to simply accomplish basic aspects of governance much less rout Al-Qaeda.
 
1 - The links I provided are only western propaganda because you disagree with what they are saying. These included a Lebanese professor at LSE who is a leading Middle East expert, Iraqi sunni politicians who worked with Maliki when he was in power, and a documentary filmmaker who interviewed a lot of people. Anyone who was in Iraq during Maliki's terms (such as myself) knows about the sectarian tensions that underpinned that period and his inability to deal with them.

2. These are only a small selection of documents that have been published. There may be more that provide an alternate perspective that you don't have access to, so rather than cherry picking things you agree with from Wikileaks or the like, it's better to look at a broader swath of information that's available from journalists, civil society, government etc. and then form a more holistic view.

3. Al-Qaeda regressed at that point not because of Maliki, but because the US were beating them into submission with intense pressure, military power, and special forces raids to disrupt AQ networks, the help of the Sons of Iraq movement, and other factors. Once the US left in late 2011, the Sunni elements who were helping tamp AQ down in Anbar and elsewhere became disillusioned with Maliki's tactics, which eventually allowed extremists to gain traction again. But the important point is that Maliki had little to do with AQ regressing up to that point - as the new Iraqi Army and Police were still in training and not fully capable of dealing with a full blown sectarian insurgency. This also includes dealing with Shi'a terrorism ranging from the Mehdi Army to Asa'ib al-Haq and others. I was in Iraq and working intimately with senior Iraqi politicians including within Maliki's inner circle of advisors. Much of his time in office was a struggle to simply accomplish basic aspects of governance much less rout Al-Qaeda.
1- First, not really. They're Western propaganda because all media in the world are propaganda machines for their governments/political directions. I wouldn't use Russian propaganda to prove a point here either, especially when we have better evidences available. Here is an Iraqi Sunni politician (a member of the parliament who belonged to the biggest Sunni bloc in Iraq) talking about Maliki:



I'm pretty sure you speak Arabic so I'm not gonna translate it for you. Notice how she makes a clear distinction between her personal opinion, based on the facts she's seeing every day, and the position of her party, which is influenced by politics and their political backers. Third, the sectarian tensions are everywhere and has nothing to do with Maliki. The cause of such tension is mainly the ideology of hate and Takfir (labelling everybody who disagrees with them as infidel 'kaffir' that must be hated/fought/killed whenever possible) that's actively spread by Saudi Arabia. Look what ISIS did to Yazidis. Maliki's fault too?

2- This is not from wikileaks. And this is not even a leak. These are documents that the US government was forced to make public because of a court order. In fact, there is much more that they refused to declassify using the excuse of 'undermining the national security of us and our allies' (which I wouldn't expect to be more kind to Saudi Arabia and Turkey and more critical of Maliki). However, even the pieces that were declassified gave a very clear description of the situation, which is completely against the propaganda that is been spread for years now. This is not cherry picking, we have a genuine document showing us how the US government really thinks, and we have propaganda trying to tell the people how the US government thinks, these are two different sets of sources of information, you can't put them on bar with each and claim that somebody is selectively cherry picking. Besides, it's not like I haven't been saying this (and providing all kinds of evidences) for years here. This document merely confirms everything I have said here, and all the articles/news I posted here for years.

3- You're merely trying to throw in your own personal opinion here. Since you have already questioned my intentions before, and questioned everything I say merely based on what you think who I am, I don't see how you expect your own personal opinion/'experiences' could throw any extra weight into the evidences involved in the discussion, especially when you have such a clear political stance. I would just ask you to read the document again and read what it gives as the primary reason for the rise of Al-Qaeda in Iraq after 2010.

And as for the Sunnis who were fighting against Al-Qaeda, many of them kept fighting against ISIS. However, they were outgunned by the support Al-Qaeda was getting from Syria, and some were eventually forced to switch sides, but many kept fighting, and the massacres against the Sunnis that happened in many places show that clearly. Here is an example:

Isis kills hundreds of Iraqi Sunnis from Albu Nimr tribe in Anbar province

Tribal militia had played prominent role in fighting al-Qaida and offshoots since 2007


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...s-hundreds-iraqi-sunnis-killed-isis-albu-nimr


And as I said before, this game of trying to use your political opponents as an excuse for Wahhabi terrorism is a dangerous game. This is not only Iraq's problem, or Syria, or Egypt, or Lebanon, or Somalia, or Nigeria, or Libya, or Bangladesh, or Pakistan, or Afghanistan, or Yemen, or France, or Belgium, or................. This is a problem the whole world is facing, and you know where the problem lies. Making excuses for people joining a terrorist ideology is a dangerous game.
 
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So apparently these animals have decapitated 4 professional footballers in Syria while kids had to watch? The state of this world..
 
So apparently these animals have decapitated 4 professional footballers in Syria while kids had to watch? The state of this world..

At this point they are just trying to kill anyone they can for attention.
 
1 - The links I provided are only western propaganda because you disagree with what they are saying. These included a Lebanese professor at LSE who is a leading Middle East expert

That would be Fawaz Gerges. He hasn't got a clue what he's talking about. Prior to 9/11 he was in the media claiming that the so-called Islamist threat to America was a myth. After 9/11 he claimed he had seen it coming all along.

More recently he claimed that Al-Qaeda was dead and buried (even published a book called The Rise and Fall of Al Qaeda or something like that). Now he's trying to pass himself off as an expert on ISIS. No reason to take anything he says seriously.
 
Amnesty International accuses U.S.-backed Syrian rebels of war crimes
Syrian opposition groups, including rebels backed by the United States, have committed atrocities ranging from abductions and torture to summary killings, Amnesty International said Tuesday.

...

According to those interviewed, opposition groups including the Nour al-Dine Zinki Movement, al-Shamia Front, Division 16, Jabhat al-Nusra and the Ahrar al-Sham Islamic Movement in Idleb have committed actions that Amnesty International said amount to war crimes.

The United States, France, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and the United Arab Emirates are responsible for vetting armed groups and coordinating the supply of lethal and non-lethal equipment, including ammunition and salaries, Amnesty International said in its report.

...

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/5/amnesty-international-accuses-us-backed-syrian-reb/
 
And these are the 'good guys'! Sickening video shows US-backed Syrian rebels taunting and then brutally beheading a young boy because he was a 'spy'

  • Nour al-Din al-Zenki thug decapitates boy accused of being a child soldier
  • Boy was arrested for being a spy for government-supporting group al-Quds
  • Fighters laugh and joke before beheading the boy in the back of an SUV
  • Executioner shouts 'Allahu Akbar' meaning 'God is great' after killing child

Fighters from a US-backed Syrian militant group have been filmed brutally beheading a child as young as 11.

The video captures Nour al-Din al-Zenki fighters in the back of a truck with a child they claim is an al-Quds soldier supporting Assad's Syrian forces.

...

Judging by his ragged clothes and the marks on his arms, it appears the boy was impoverished and may have been tortured before he was murdered in the video, seen by MailOnline.

The boy is placed face-down in the back of the truck with his arms tied behind his back when the executioner is handed a small knife by a fellow fighter.

He then cuts the boy's throat before shouting 'Allahu Akbar' and holds his head aloft.

Before the video ends, he places the head on the boy's back before jumping down from the SUV.

...

Liwaa Al Quds is a pro-Syrian government Palestinian paramilitary faction made up of the Palestinians who have been driven out of their homes in the Handarat Camp once Islamist militants took over the neighbourhood.

...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nki-behead-boy-accused-al-Quds-spy-Assad.html
 
And these are the 'good guys'! Sickening video shows US-backed Syrian rebels taunting and then brutally beheading a young boy because he was a 'spy'

  • Nour al-Din al-Zenki thug decapitates boy accused of being a child soldier
  • Boy was arrested for being a spy for government-supporting group al-Quds
  • Fighters laugh and joke before beheading the boy in the back of an SUV
  • Executioner shouts 'Allahu Akbar' meaning 'God is great' after killing child
Fighters from a US-backed Syrian militant group have been filmed brutally beheading a child as young as 11.

The video captures Nour al-Din al-Zenki fighters in the back of a truck with a child they claim is an al-Quds soldier supporting Assad's Syrian forces.

...

Judging by his ragged clothes and the marks on his arms, it appears the boy was impoverished and may have been tortured before he was murdered in the video, seen by MailOnline.

The boy is placed face-down in the back of the truck with his arms tied behind his back when the executioner is handed a small knife by a fellow fighter.

He then cuts the boy's throat before shouting 'Allahu Akbar' and holds his head aloft.

Before the video ends, he places the head on the boy's back before jumping down from the SUV.

...

Liwaa Al Quds is a pro-Syrian government Palestinian paramilitary faction made up of the Palestinians who have been driven out of their homes in the Handarat Camp once Islamist militants took over the neighbourhood.

...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nki-behead-boy-accused-al-Quds-spy-Assad.html
Seriously, what the feck is wrong with these people? That's beyond sick. Beheading a child ffs, when you thought you had seen it all..
 
So in an obvious attempt to win support from a wider circle of sponsors, Jabhat al-Nusra have officially 'disengaged' from al-Qaeda and rebranded themselves as Jabhat Fatah al-Sham (Front for the conquest of Syria). Their leader Abu Muhammad al-Julani has even revealed himself for the first time:

CoeOnmCUEAIZTR0.jpg


Of course they only did this with permission from al-Zawahiri and there's no mention of actually repudiating their pledge of allegiance to him. Presumably it's all a farce arranged by the government of Qatar.
 
Looks like he just stepped out of a Jihadi grooming salon.

This is his Camp Bucca mug-shot from around a decade ago:

images


(Edit): His real name confirmed as Ahmad Husayn al-Shar'a, born 1984 in Dara'a.
 
All the Tweets on this account from this one onward explain well the reasoning behind the move:



Ffs they're not even being subtle - according to that account, the guy sitting on al-Julani's right in this pic (the pretty one) is a senior al-Qaeda operator, close to al-Zawahiri, who just happens to be in Syria:

CoeNZECVUAEAJOC.jpg
 
@2cents
they already attempted a couple of times to re-brand themselves as group that has only national aspirations. Last year around the Riyadh opposition meeting was the last time they said these things.
The positive is, that this might be a rather desperate move. The danger is, that this is actually really part of a concerted strategy to legitimize them, so they can be participate in a rebel-umbrella organisation that gets stronger support.
 
@2cents
they already attempted a couple of times to re-brand themselves as group that has only national aspirations. Last year around the Riyadh opposition meeting was the last time they said these things.
The positive is, that this might be a rather desperate move. The danger is, that this is actually really part of a concerted strategy to legitimize them, so they can be participate in a rebel-umbrella organisation that gets stronger support.

Yeah the suggestion is that this is a response to the forthcoming US-Russian cooperation where they were going to be targeted alongside ISIS. Americans saying today that this rebranding doesn't change that, but it probably complicates it a little (for the Americans - the Russians won't be worrying about taking out any other rebels who happen to be fighting alongside them, and rightly so).
 
Yeah the suggestion is that this is a response to the forthcoming US-Russian cooperation where they were going to be targeted alongside ISIS. Americans saying today that this rebranding doesn't change that, but it probably complicates it a little (for the Americans - the Russians won't be worrying about taking out any other rebels who happen to be fighting alongside them, and rightly so).

Did anyone actually announce, that the USA and Russia are going to strengthen their cooperation against ISIS or is this just a rumour?
 
Did anyone actually announce, that the USA and Russia are going to strengthen their cooperation against ISIS or is this just a rumour?

Ah, I don't know, just seen it mentioned a few times on Twitter (and on here :nervous: )
 
Ah, I don't know, just seen it mentioned a few times on Twitter (and on here :nervous: )
watching ISIS videos all day long, hmm? :lol: just kidding. I just saw one myself for the first time.:nervous: It was surprisingly entertaining, if you ignore the mutilated bodies and blown of faces. These guys could learn a thing or two from the Mexican cartels when it comes to releasing shocking stuff.
 
watching ISIS videos all day long, hmm? :lol: just kidding. I just saw one myself for the first time.:nervous: It was surprisingly entertaining, if you ignore the mutilated bodies and blown of faces. These guys could learn a thing or two from the Mexican cartels when it comes to releasing shocking stuff.

I took a 6-month break from all Syria/jihadi/ISIS-related stuff just before Christmas, I'm only catching up on my videos and Dabiq editions now. What an absolute bunch of wankers everyone fighting in Syria (still) is ('cept the Kurds because, you know...).
 
:lol:
better make sure, that none is seeing you with this stuff. I had a bit of explaining to do, when an research assistant saw me clicking through twitter accounts with bearded guys and a lot of Arabic letters.

Unfortunately I've been assured that nobody important in Ireland has a fecking clue about any of this stuff. Anywhere else I'd be slightly worried if my details hadn't come up on some watch list yet, but 'terrorism' still means something quite different here.
 
Anyone seen Ross Kemp: Fight against ISIS?

Just seen the first 15mins of it and my gosh, these people are more fecked up than I had even realised.
 
Russian helicopter downed in Syria. Five confirmed to be on board...

Defence officials say the Mi-8 transport aircraft had five people on board. It is not yet known what has happened to them.

The helicopter was returning from delivering humanitarian aid to Aleppo, Russia's Interfax news agency quoted officials as saying.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36939137

Twitter stuff from one of the locals(?) at/near the scene.

 
The CIA agent Doglous Lax tasked with arming Al Qaeda terrorists in Syria "We knew there were no moderates but we armed them anyway".

http://www.thecanary.co/2016/08/01/cias-top-spy-syria-knew-nothing-syria-video/

:confused: That's not really what the article says at all. Also, it contains a link to a piece where Laux is quoted complaining that, in any case, the Obama administration rejected all of his plans for overthrowing Bashar - http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/obama-nixed-cia-plan-could-have-stopped-isis-officials-n549111
 
:confused: That's not really what the article says at all. Also, it contains a link to a piece where Laux is quoted complaining that, in any case, the Obama administration rejected all of his plans for overthrowing Bashar - http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/obama-nixed-cia-plan-could-have-stopped-isis-officials-n549111

He mentions that "there were no moderates". Here's a bit more http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/obama-nixed-cia-plan-could-have-stopped-isis-officials-n549111

"Looking back, Laux now says he doesn't believe his or any other covert plan could have stopped the rise of ISIS or ended Syria's bloody civil war. "There were no moderates," he says."

And they did arm them, didn't they?
 
He mentions that "there were no moderates". Here's a bit more http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/obama-nixed-cia-plan-could-have-stopped-isis-officials-n549111

"Looking back, Laux now says he doesn't believe his or any other covert plan could have stopped the rise of ISIS or ended Syria's bloody civil war. "There were no moderates," he says."

And they did arm them, didn't they?

It says he only came to the conclusion that there were no moderates in hindsight - nothing about arming al-Qaeda terrorists 'anyway'. And his quotes in that link indicate Obama vetoed all his plans for overthrowing Asad, leading him to resign in frustration.
 
It says he only came to the conclusion that there were no moderates in hindsight - nothing about arming al-Qaeda terrorists 'anyway'. And his quotes in that link indicate Obama vetoed all his plans for overthrowing Asad, leading him to resign in frustration.

The US State Dept still insists that they are "supporting moderates", they've been arming and training them for quite some time now. The ex-CIA operative that was tasked with drawing up plans for regime change and was the CIA’s "eyes and ears on the ground” in Syria admits that 'there were no moderates there'. Even if it was an honest mistake on his part at the time and he only realized it afterwards, that's irrelevant, they've still done it and continue to do it now. That's what I'm trying to say here, my wording may be wrong, but I think my point is quite clear.