Is the European super league back? | United Statement: We remain committed to UEFA

So the Barca fans here are all complaining about not being able to compete with pl teams?

Yet it's ok to eat up all of the tv revenue in their own league thus making the other teams (bar Madrid) uncompetitive relative to them?

Hypocrites!
 
It has been said numerous times but they didn't make these same points about "saving football," when literally every top player wanted to play in La Liga and Serie A in the 90s and 00s.
I remember when United couldn't assemble a good team in the 90s and 00s because no top players wanted to play in England. Those were barren times for Manchester United.
 
I remember when United couldn't assemble a good team in the 90s and 00s because no top players wanted to play in England. Those were barren times for Manchester United.
Ah yes, I remember Manchester United proposing this very Super League to SAVE FOOTBALL after overspending on Glacticos every season after state backed land deals and loans.
Yes I remember it well...

Also, where did Ronaldo and our main Transfer targets move to during the 90s and 00s???
 
I wish everyone would just settle the fook down until we've got this club sold and the Glazers gone for good.

The PL throwing the book at City and now this. Talk about putting potential buyers off!
 
I remember when United couldn't assemble a good team in the 90s and 00s because no top players wanted to play in England. Those were barren times for Manchester United.
We made do with no big superstar signings and only a European ban fecked up what our 94 could do in Europe?
What we didn’t do is cry about not signing Vieri and demand an overhaul of European football so we could just sign Edgar Davids for our midfield.
We never had the worlds best consistently in our league until very recently, we never built our league in attracting the worlds best and competing for the Ronaldos and Zidane of this world.
Why should money matter now? Wu can’t you lot do the same? I
 
Manchester United, the Oliver Twist of football clubs.
What made it worse was the foreigner rule. Welsh etc was considered Foreign so we couldn’t even field a fully British 11. We played away to Barca and lost 4-0 with Schmichael and Cantona in the stand because we had to make a choice of who to play.
What happened then? Did we cry and throw our toys out of the pram about not being able to sign Ronaldo or Salas?
If anything La Liga etc are starting from a stronger position than we did. You just dont want to grow it because you already fecked it and have to start again and itll take too long for your liking. You want the big names and the transfer now, that’s why your league complained about a PSG player resigning with PSG for feck sake.
I guarantee if English football was in your position right now we’d build it to be the biggest brand in football. You know why? Because we already did it against Spain who had the two greatest players of all times and won 7 odd CLs in 10 something years yet here we are
 
At the end of the day, an European league is not meant to replace the local leagues… other sports are doing that already, most recently basket with their two-tiers EuroLeague. It’s just the natural evolution of the EU fundamentals in football. Sure, UEFA (and the local Football Associations) are in the pocket of Qatar, as it is part of the European Parliament caught with piles of dosh at home, if you like, yet the tide is moving in that direction.
 
We made do with no big superstar signings and only a European ban fecked up what our 94 could do in Europe?
What we didn’t do is cry about not signing Vieri and demand an overhaul of European football so we could just sign Edgar Davids for our midfield.
We never had the worlds best consistently in our league until very recently, we never built our league in attracting the worlds best and competing for the Ronaldos and Zidane of this world.
Why should money matter now? Wu can’t you lot do the same? I

Wu Tang Clan indeed
 
Too much dirty money to list, but one famous turning point IMO was the dirty money of Abramovich making it a 3 teams league when it was becoming at best a 2 teams league, and immediately making it attractive to larger viewership around the world...

If you want my thought on the subject you can read this:

It will not stop the PL domination over other domestic leagues, but it will reduce the financial gap significantly... And that's all they can hope for...

The PL made some very smart moves in the last 20 years. It attracted investors from all around the world, ( I think Abramovich was the main turning point), but it also built some strategic business alliances with massive groups, including media outlets. These groups are so invested in the PL that they will do anything to promote it. Murdoch, Abu Dhabi, NENT (MTG in the past) are some very powerful allies to have. Each played a massive role at some points.
Dirty money has always been there in football. Care to remind me of the Russian billionaire owner of AS Monaco with ties to Uralkali? Or the owners of Malaga or Racing Santander with equally dubious allegations around them? Peter Lim ? How was AD any worse than QSI?

Regarding broadcasting rights taking a massive jump, its inevitable. La Liga also had a similar rise in broadcast earnings between 2014 and 2016-17, about 70%. But that was still less than what PL was earning back in 2013. PL earnings a decade back were more than what Serie A earns right now.

It's appeal to audiences have always been massive compared to other leagues. It's looks incredible as the gap has just kept widening. The marketability of the League especially in Asia and the USA for example is on a whole different level
 
Manchester United, the Oliver Twist of football clubs.

Name one time that Manchester United proposed anywhere near what Papa Perez is proposing in the 90s or 00s; Yes there have always been murmurings of execs wanting to have high-profile euro matches but never has such a proposal been resurrected and flung into the faces of the football world under the pretense of SAVING FOOTBALL et al after gargantuan financial mismanagement.
And United in the 90s and early 00s was anything but financially mismanaged.
I may remind you of our BSKYB deal being blocked.

If you really wanted to clutch at straws you could have even cited the formation of the PL.
Finally, I would argue if indeed the day came again where our club tried this nonsense, many here would just leave supporting this great club.

Enjoy your Tuesdays nights on a wet pitch at Turin every couple of weeks;
oh wait no, it will probably be held in { INSERT MAKETING TEAM INSTRUCTIONS FOR CITY X IN GLOBAL COUNTRY }
 
Dirty money has always been there in football. Care to remind me of the Russian billionaire owner of AS Monaco with ties to Uralkali? Or the owners of Malaga or Racing Santander with equally dubious allegations around them? Peter Lim ? How was AD any worse than QSI?

Regarding broadcasting rights taking a massive jump, its inevitable. La Liga also had a similar rise in broadcast earnings between 2014 and 2016-17, about 70%. But that was still less than what PL was earning back in 2013. PL earnings a decade back were more than what Serie A earns right now.

It's appeal to audiences have always been massive compared to other leagues. It's looks incredible as the gap has just kept widening. The marketability of the League especially in the Asia and USA for example is on a whole different level

It's genuinely this apsect which shows the disingenuous nature of the proposal.
If La Liga or Serie A had the finance the PL has today through it's global marketing power, would they seriously consider United, Liverpool and Arsenal proposing this concept of a Super League to SAVE FOOTBALL after going into 1 billion debt?
 
At the end of the day, an European league is not meant to replace the local leagues… other sports are doing that already, most recently basket with their two-tiers EuroLeague. It’s just the natural evolution of the EU fundamentals in football. Sure, UEFA (and the local Football Associations) are in the pocket of Qatar, as it is part of the European Parliament caught with piles of dosh at home, if you like, yet the tide is moving in that direction.
Fair point, well made. though I do disagree RE: EU Competition Law.
 
Ronaldo moved to Manchester United.
At 18.
Where did he go during the prime of his career?
Which non-British (and how many) global superstar at the peak of their powers signed for a PL team in the 90s OVER La Liga or Serie A?

This will be fun is someone can make a good list. Serie A was the pinnacle of elite football and La Liga was renowned for regularly spending large sums; we didn't advocate upending football then did we? and the PL literally used to pick up those coming towards the end of their career.
 
The money counted too... But I never said otherwise... And I think Abramovich's dirty money (and later on City's... Both welcomed by PL's complicity) prevented us from winning 5 in a row once Arsenal went into austerity mode (around 2006/07) to pay back their stadium.
What made it worse was the foreigner rule. Welsh etc was considered Foreign so we couldn’t even field a fully British 11. We played away to Barca and lost 4-0 with Schmichael and Cantona in the stand because we had to make a choice of who to play.
What happened then? Did we cry and throw our toys out of the pram about not being able to sign Ronaldo or Salas?
If anything La Liga etc are starting from a stronger position than we did. You just dont want to grow it because you already fecked it and have to start again and itll take too long for your liking. You want the big names and the transfer now, that’s why your league complained about a PSG player resigning with PSG for feck sake.
I guarantee if English football was in your position right now we’d build it to be the biggest brand in football. You know why? Because we already did it against Spain who had the two greatest players of all times and won 7 odd CLs in 10 something years yet here we are
In an English league Welsh, Scots and Irish are foreign though
 
In an English league Welsh, Scots and Irish are foreign though
And they shouldn’t have been. Imagine calling a Brit a foreigner to Britain, that’s why it was ridiculous. Most of the league was made up of a mixture of everybody. It was intertwined with everybody that had family everywhere else with internal emigration for jobs etc. Even now you have a large Irish workforce in England.
I’d love to know the rules back then, did you declare without a cap? How did it work?

Ireland I have sympathy with, they were stuck in a bit of no man’s land.
 
At 18.
Where did he go during the prime of his career?
Which non-British (and how many) global superstar at the peak of their powers signed for a PL team in the 90s OVER La Liga or Serie A?

This will be fun is someone can make a good list. Serie A was the pinnacle of elite football and La Liga was renowned for regularly spending large sums; we didn't advocate upending football then did we? and the PL literally used to pick up those coming towards the end of their career.
Isn’t it funny now the roles have been reversed and Serie A is now the retirement home with its fairly high wages and slow football and not the Premier League.
 
Their whining is annoying, tough luck, not much you could do about it.
 
I actually despise Barca and Real Madrid. It’s ok for them when they’re hoovering up all the other team’s talent in their tinpot league.

Love seeing them squirm like this.
 
Barca and Real fans really crack me up. Years of doing dodgy deals with their local government's to get state funded money into their clubs, then improverishing their own leagues by taking the vast majoroty of TV money and then crying that the former has prevented them in the past 3-5 years' from doing what they like in the transfer market.

This whole 'new ESL' thing is utter bluster. The Adovcate General has already stated that UEFA/FIFA's model works and isn't against EU law. This means it is almost certain that the ECJ will rule in this way too. So, this is almost certain to get killed in the next 6 months via the highest court in the EU.
 
Desperation by Spanish and Italian boys :lol:

The clubs that played decent enough role to kill the league, Juventus more than any with their corruption which was the lowest point for Serie A and the move that set back the league for decades and the one which they are still trying to recover.
 
Domestic leagues are the basis of European club football. Barca, Juve, RM etc need to figure out ways to help strengthen their leagues.
 
Domestic leagues are the basis of European club football. Barca, Juve, RM etc need to figure out ways to help strengthen their leagues.

It's fine though, apparently it won't matter if Getafe gets extra 10 million. Every club should be doing their utmost best to help Madrid, Barca.
 
And they shouldn’t have been. Imagine calling a Brit a foreigner to Britain, that’s why it was ridiculous. Most of the league was made up of a mixture of everybody. It was intertwined with everybody that had family everywhere else with internal emigration for jobs etc. Even now you have a large Irish workforce in England.
I’d love to know the rules back then, did you declare without a cap? How did it work?

Ireland I have sympathy with, they were stuck in a bit of no man’s land.
British teams don't play in a British league, they play in national leagues, they each have their own governing bodies, tey each have thier own national teams, that's why they were classified as foreign because in footballing terms they are and were
 
At the end of the day, an European league is not meant to replace the local leagues… other sports are doing that already, most recently basket with their two-tiers EuroLeague. It’s just the natural evolution of the EU fundamentals in football. Sure, UEFA (and the local Football Associations) are in the pocket of Qatar, as it is part of the European Parliament caught with piles of dosh at home, if you like, yet the tide is moving in that direction.
Several people have leaked the truth though. The plan was to have guaranteed elite competition with handpicked teams. It would start out as an aside, an alternative to CL… but the primaries behind it dk t want it to be attached to their leagues anymore, and eventually as match demand grew, the calls for it to “evolve” into the main competition would be too strong yo stand against.

In a truly horrific reality the structure would allow for “promotion” to the “top Superleague”

Then you would have a situation where Madrid, Barca, Juventus, Bayern would be in the “top flight” every year … whereas the English teams could be out every other year, never being able to consistently try guarantee “top league” football with the same assurance.

As they said on Talksport: anyone who believes this reimagined “league” will stay a 14 match or so exhibition, not touching how your leagues operate, is either naive, stupid, or lying to people.

We had full reporting in the states on the details of their “discussions” in their now infamous Las Vegas meetings.
 
Several people have leaked the truth though. The plan was to have guaranteed elite competition with handpicked teams. It would start out as an aside, an alternative to CL… but the primaries behind it dk t want it to be attached to their leagues anymore, and eventually as match demand grew, the calls for it to “evolve” into the main competition would be too strong yo stand against.

It's really amazing how they spilled the beans the first time, making their motives clear for everyone who was paying attention. All in all it's a very elemental dispute about getting to keep the coolest/most expensive toys in the playground, after breaking most of their previous ones.
 
Once again i think this is the wrong way to go about it. The best solution would be for Spain/Portugal/France/Italy to combine their leagues - if they can make the logistics work. That would effectively create a Superleague capable of financially competing - if not outright outcompeting - the PL. It is a very big IF though. Would need a complete reorganization of multiple domestic pyramids, even just starting at the top, you would have to figute out which teams from which countries would make the cut, and then the promotion/relegation system would be a logistical hell - the resulting top 2 divisions should make enough money to work just fine, but below that, the SL would need to funnel a lot of money downwards to make it viable i think

I dunno. I like the idea of the SL, but i don't see how it can be executed without killing the lower domestic divisions clubs...

A pooling of tv money and subsequent equal distribution of it across all UEFA members would truly bring equality, grow and develop the game at grassroots level, but at the the cost of competitiveness at the top - no more superteams, we would be back to pre-Berlusconi era of football. The big obstacle here of course would be the PL itself, who would naturally oppose any such initiative(as would most of the big clubs outside of england i believe)
 
Once again i think this is the wrong way to go about it. The best solution would be for Spain/Portugal/France/Italy to combine their leagues - if they can make the logistics work. That would effectively create a Superleague capable of financially competing - if not outright outcompeting - the PL. It is a very big IF though. Would need a complete reorganization of multiple domestic pyramids, even just starting at the top, you would have to figute out which teams from which countries would make the cut, and then the promotion/relegation system would be a logistical hell - the resulting top 2 divisions should make enough money to work just fine, but below that, the SL would need to funnel a lot of money downwards to make it viable i think

I dunno. I like the idea of the SL, but i don't see how it can be executed without killing the lower domestic divisions clubs...

A pooling of tv money and subsequent equal distribution of it across all UEFA members would truly bring equality, grow and develop the game at grassroots level, but at the the cost of competitiveness at the top - no more superteams, we would be back to pre-Berlusconi era of football. The big obstacle here of course would be the PL itself, who would naturally oppose any such initiative(as would most of the big clubs outside of england i believe)
I don't understand this SL doing things.
This all feels like just a way to force UEFA sharing more money.
The problem for some clubs in the end is that the pie share is too small.
Like 40% going to clubs who takes all the risk for business and UEFA keeping 60% for managing stuff without risk.

Else what's the point of all this?
First you wanna replace CL with this SL having fixed spots and few wild cards to invite teams to fill it up based on we dunno what.
Then they came with a new format of 60-80 clubs to make 3 divisions as if it's a national federation but instead pan-european.
I mean while the precedent was more a "let's replace CL" this looks more like a "let's merge the best teams of few countries into leagues"
While the other format had no impact on domestic leagues this format if allowed by EU rules gonna impact domestic leagues.
Because unless teams partecipating in the ESL have like 30-35players how can they play domestic league (39games) + national cups + ESL (minimum of 14games they said)

So unless you have bigger line up it's not doable to do that and adding games for national teams for EU and WC.

I like the idea to take away control from UEFA and give it to clubs. So that they could fix rules for wages and deleting from football a cancer known as agents. Agents and money imbalance are the real cancer of football.
But this looks so messy. Even this message they gave explaining few things I don't understand it.
Why talking NOW and not waiting to have the final OK from the EU. You're just gonna get smashed like old ESL from politics and nationals leagues fearing for their interests + UEFA.

That's why I say this is more a way to force something on UEFA rather than really organizing something.

I would love the idea of a league composed from the best of Portgual,Spain,Italy,France,Germany,Netherlands etc etc in a more league like format instead of what we have now.
But they're doing everything wrong.

If I were them and have the best of said countries agree into this 3 tiers league involving 60-80clubs I would go to national leagues and FIRSTLY reduce national leagues to max of 16 teams for 31games.
Then organize those 3 tier ESL thing with meritocracy and all the technical and economic stuff.
I doubt they could hand out 400m for 60-80 teams that's an absurd amount of money if it's not a one time only thing....
Could be done for the old ESL format but now?

Football has to change and since UEFA/FIFA aren't doing anything to fix problems (agents and economic imbalance) clubs should take things in their hands.
But why this looks and sound so amateurish?


Also we should leave the english to their SL and find way for the rest of EU football to compete and not just be feeders for countries-teams from PL.
 
It's fine though, apparently it won't matter if Getafe gets extra 10 million. Every club should be doing their utmost best to help Madrid, Barca.
They would be handing out crumbs.
La liga is Madrid and Barcelona. Maybe in the past it was different but Atletico never had much pull beyond Madrid South and Athletic died with the Bosman law. Pintu explains it well in this and other posts along the thread
This is not very accurate... Equal distribution of little money means little money for everyone. And less in total, since making the big teams poorer will mean you can't sell you rights abroad... Until very recently, France had a very egalitarian distribution, and their league didn't make anywhere near as much money. Simply because they didn't attract enough dirty money to enough clubs & TV broadcasters in order to promote their league.

The PL decided a while ago to ally itself to Murdoch, Abu Dhabi and others to become the Super League and this strategy worked. We've explained this many times. It has nothing to do with the PL being the best. It's all about London being the capital of dirty money.

 
Once again i think this is the wrong way to go about it. The best solution would be for Spain/Portugal/France/Italy to combine their leagues - if they can make the logistics work. That would effectively create a Superleague capable of financially competing - if not outright outcompeting - the PL. It is a very big IF though. Would need a complete reorganization of multiple domestic pyramids, even just starting at the top, you would have to figute out which teams from which countries would make the cut, and then the promotion/relegation system would be a logistical hell - the resulting top 2 divisions should make enough money to work just fine, but below that, the SL would need to funnel a lot of money downwards to make it viable i think

I dunno. I like the idea of the SL, but i don't see how it can be executed without killing the lower domestic divisions clubs...

A pooling of tv money and subsequent equal distribution of it across all UEFA members would truly bring equality, grow and develop the game at grassroots level, but at the the cost of competitiveness at the top - no more superteams, we would be back to pre-Berlusconi era of football. The big obstacle here of course would be the PL itself, who would naturally oppose any such initiative(as would most of the big clubs outside of england i believe)
But with this concept you are hurting the lower categories of each league. The two divisions of that "Latin" league would be fine but the rest would also end up in the shit, besides shoehorn in rivalries that do not exist and eliminate those that already exist, and also, assuming that UEFA remains in control, you create a duplicity with football at the European level.
Benfica-Atlético in the league on a Saturday and again on Wednesday in the Champions League?
I could see some kind of sense if there was a Scandinavian league, a Benelux+Germany, Eastern European ...all simultaneously, which doesn't seem realistic.
 
But if the PL is mostly popular due to it's "competitiveness", increasing that said competitiveness to the point where each side can compete for the title and each side can be relegated would do wonders for league revenue?
Only if it comes with the best talent. Which comes with being competitive financially with every other league.
I thought this was obvious.
 
They would be handing out crumbs.
La liga is Madrid and Barcelona. Maybe in the past it was different but Atletico never had much pull beyond Madrid South and Athletic died with the Bosman law. Pintu explains it well in this and other posts along the thread
You guys keep making excuses dismissing equal distribution. In the pl, in the early 2000s; clubs like Bolton had the likes of: Djorkaeff, Bobic, Campo and Okocha. Birmingham had players like Duggarry and Pandiani. Middlesborough had Viduka and Hasselbaink. These are just off the top of my head. Most of these players were not in their prime but they would have been on big wages. The small clubs were able to afford such wages due to EQUAL DISTRIBUTION OF TV MONEY. Small clubs could afford big players, making the league more competitive and more attractive for non English viewers.

This could have been La Liga but your big clubs chose to be greedy.
 
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This will not work without the premier league, the other leagues realise the PL is only going to get bigger and better. With Middle East investment the PL will be even more dominate in viewing figures and the ability to buy the best players. We already have a super league its called the premier league. Leave the Spanish big 2 to rot in their own greed or distribute the tv rights more evenly to allow more competition. As for the Italian league, they have been irreverent in years.
 
Two things can be true at the same time:
  • Real and Barcelona's hogging of TV money clearly affected the competitiveness of La Liga.
  • The huge proportion of investment into solely the Premier League has affected the competitiveness of the European game.
Both parties have been and are guilty of carrying on blazenly while ignoring the obvious threat coming over the horizon (in Spain's case the league's reduced appeal post Messi/Ronaldo; and in the PL's case the Super League). The problem in both cases is failing to recognise that competitiveness is the lifeblood of the sport. The only real solution is allowing UEFA or some collective body (not just a group of big club chairmen twats) to carve out a better distribution model across the continent. Never going to happen, but it's the only way to get over the massively vested interests that have led to the game's current broken state.
 
The only real solution is allowing UEFA or some collective body (not just a group of big club chairmen twats)

Because Uefa isn't just a group of big corrupt chairmen twats? :lol:
Ceferin started to rant, insult and threaten all european clubs involved, the second the SL went public like some mobster who was losing his turf.
 
Because Uefa isn't just a group of big corrupt chairmen twats? :lol:
Ceferin started to rant, insult and threaten all european clubs involved, the second the SL went public like some mobster who was losing his turf.
Indeed, they've pandered to those big clubs for too long. But in this cnut-fest they're the lesser evil.
 
In my opinion, the Super League is just an attempt by other European leagues to catch up with the money being made in England.

In reality they need it more than us. The original proposal was for a small group of high profile clubs and might have been worth it financially, but with the new model (60-80 clubs) there isn't much incentive for English teams to join. The Premiership has become its own super league.