But If that didn’t work with CL then how does it work now?
Is the European super league back? | United Statement: We remain committed to UEFA
- Thread starter kouroux
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What's wrong with this proposal? It doesn't look like a league but a competitor to the CL out of Uefa's purview.
If it’s a league format only a few clubs can win the title and nobody will care about lower leagues or teams and the vast majority of the prize pool will go to that top division.
Theoretically everybody can win a cup competition as it is now.
14 games would likely mean leagues of 7 I would think. So the money gets funnelled to those 7 teams
About the proposal, I don't see anything particularly right or wrong about it, except for a few obvious inconsistencies (how are you going to get 14 european games for 80 clubs without affecting domestic competitions and/or the players health?) and the "more money for everyone" remarks without some backing. Most (if not all) could be done from inside UEFA/FIFA tough, just like the Premier League did 30 years ago.
About the promoters, well...
It's the only chance to close the gap to the PL. Otherwise the PL, pumped with oil, sportswashing and laundering money, will destroy the european football balance in the near future and the european competition will lose all value. The SL will definetly come. The question is as an european competition to the PL or the PL becomes the SL itself.
You don’t leave the PL when playing in the ESL
They can play the Championship and the ESL, and keep getting promoted to/exclude from the PL because of their participation in the ESL.... But the ESL want to have a competitive format with real hard cap salaries. It would make almost impossible to win 4 in 5 the way City just did in the PL (the most competitive league in Europe).
I get the general sentiment behind your thinking that you want the best teams/players playing against each other more often but isn't that comparison a bit shit when Rooney's career overlapped with Zidane's by just a couple of years?
I think the current nature of the competitions is what makes such meetings special and memorable but in a Super League where each team would play one another at least twice every season it would very quickly just turn into another fixture in the calendar and there's nothing spectacular or memorable about it.
Is it strictly a league format though? They said 'a minimum of 14 games' which would imply some kind of a knockout structure for the top teams where even more games would be played.
There would be 60-80 clubs participating over a multi-tier structure so the top tier could have for example 32 clubs divided into 4 groups where they would play each other twice and then a knockout stage where the top 4 clubs from each group would qualify. The rest of the teams would play a similar tournament but with just lesser ranked teams involved, much like the UEL currently.
For me their idea seems very similar to the current UCL but just stretching the group stage further to maximize the amount of games played in hopes this would result in more income from sponsors and broadcasting deals, and without UEFA taking a big chunk of the profits so the clubs would earn even more than they currently do from the UCL.
It's a very slippery slope though. If clubs agree to this model now, who's to say the format won't be changed in the next 5-10 years to form a closed league which was their plan from the start? By cutting out UEFA now it would be much easier for them to make drastic changes later on. That's why I would be very hesitant to accept any Super League, even if on paper it looked very similar to the current European formats. The ones involved in the decision making are as crooked as they come and will care about their own profits first and foremost.
The European Super League is dead as hell.
Without the premier league clubs, there won't be more money from a UCL replacement. Less probably.
They could merge domestic leagues, La Liga and Serie A for example. Doubt that will help much either though.
Things probably get worse in football finances before they get better...
They could merge domestic leagues, La Liga and Serie A for example. Doubt that will help much either though.
Things probably get worse in football finances before they get better...
Just like Barca and Real have destroyed La Liga. Oh well.
Under threat: From the clubs themselves. And in equal part from the clubs that lead this initiative.
Perhaps you should all look in the mirror before proposing initiatives to curb your own mismanagement, instead of simply taking action in your own house.
Any initiative that forces control out of UEFA will end up dead in the water. Clubs can choose to compete in this league, or their domestic leagues.
Ahh love to see Barca fans comment on this, when their club has been a model of how a football club should be run right?
How hypocritical of Barca fans to come and say the PL is ruining things.
Serie A has ruined itself by clubs like Juve bribing officials, of one Barca were involved in.
La Liga is really fair right? Giving the top 2 clubs the highest TV rights money and blantantly favouring Barca so they can attract players.
I love the CL how it is, a special competition to the bread and butter of the domestic leagues. Turning into a super league means more games people aren't interested in, you end up ruining both the allure of European cups and the domestic leagues.
A better solution might be looking at Europe's own leagues. You could merge Portugal and Spain. Merge Belgium, Holland and France. Makes stronger domestic leagues in Europe that make geographical sense for travelling fans and the climate.
With a super league you could end up with no away fans if there's too many games stretched across long distances. Fans can make the case currently as Europe is a special occasion, plus it's time off work and so on. There's so many things to cover. The spectacle could become very poor after the novelty has worn off.
For England it's not like we're even dominating, there's a slight emergence and that seems to be a real problem for mainland Europe but when Italy and Spain actually did dominate it was all good.
Look at how the Premier League distributes the money. Perhaps Europe's leagues should look at that as well, being at the top is not much different as the bottom in money, yet we have people in Europe crying about some lower PL club earning more. Clubs like United should be earning much more but we decided to share the money. Imagine how Valencia, Deportivo would've fared if the Spanish shared the money out, how the Spanish clubs voted is not our problem, change it now then, fix your money distribution and over time you might have a better product, the PL is not that far ahead, but then Barca and Madrid don't want that. All this is about is leveraging English clubs to channel money into Europe's somewhat struggling elite. The English clubs lose any advantage as the locations of Spain Italy etc are more attractive, England really only has it's league so if we do join we pretty quickly lose our pull to better climates and it all falls in favour of Spain again and clubs like PSG and Paris suddenly get legitimized and takeover English clubs.
I'd look at improving your own domestic leagues, keep European cups special. We all saw the thrill of the World Cup, how the leagues can't get near, the only thing that can is the CL, if you water it down into a league then it becomes pretty dull as well plus there's a lot of logistical issues. You could be taking a wrecking ball to European football that could take years to stabilize just to satisfy Barca, Madrid Juve.
The corruption of Juve, the foxes guarding the hen house. I don't see the English clubs faring well in how it's run, it's been a battle to Uefa over 30-40 years, it can only get worse.
A better solution might be looking at Europe's own leagues. You could merge Portugal and Spain. Merge Belgium, Holland and France. Makes stronger domestic leagues in Europe that make geographical sense for travelling fans and the climate.
With a super league you could end up with no away fans if there's too many games stretched across long distances. Fans can make the case currently as Europe is a special occasion, plus it's time off work and so on. There's so many things to cover. The spectacle could become very poor after the novelty has worn off.
For England it's not like we're even dominating, there's a slight emergence and that seems to be a real problem for mainland Europe but when Italy and Spain actually did dominate it was all good.
Look at how the Premier League distributes the money. Perhaps Europe's leagues should look at that as well, being at the top is not much different as the bottom in money, yet we have people in Europe crying about some lower PL club earning more. Clubs like United should be earning much more but we decided to share the money. Imagine how Valencia, Deportivo would've fared if the Spanish shared the money out, how the Spanish clubs voted is not our problem, change it now then, fix your money distribution and over time you might have a better product, the PL is not that far ahead, but then Barca and Madrid don't want that. All this is about is leveraging English clubs to channel money into Europe's somewhat struggling elite. The English clubs lose any advantage as the locations of Spain Italy etc are more attractive, England really only has it's league so if we do join we pretty quickly lose our pull to better climates and it all falls in favour of Spain again and clubs like PSG and Paris suddenly get legitimized and takeover English clubs.
I'd look at improving your own domestic leagues, keep European cups special. We all saw the thrill of the World Cup, how the leagues can't get near, the only thing that can is the CL, if you water it down into a league then it becomes pretty dull as well plus there's a lot of logistical issues. You could be taking a wrecking ball to European football that could take years to stabilize just to satisfy Barca, Madrid Juve.
The corruption of Juve, the foxes guarding the hen house. I don't see the English clubs faring well in how it's run, it's been a battle to Uefa over 30-40 years, it can only get worse.
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Valid point but there are countless examples, the Brazilian Ronaldo, R9, only ever played at Old Trafford once, it was a great performance and he left with the match ball and a standing ovation, but imagine he came over to play every season, they would make for great footballing nights.
I don't think that it would become diluted because we play Liverpool and City every season and it doesn't mean any less this season than it did last season, it's still a massive game. Playing in Madrid and Barcelona every season would be great nights, as long as everyone is there on merit, there shouldn't be as big a problem as people bring up.
Another thing is that people talk about money leaving the game, and UEFA is the biggest example of that, an organisation who only take money out the game and put it into their own pockets. A new European Competition that rewards the teams and not the organiser's is what we should get behind.
Correct take, especially regarding the other leagues getting their houses in order.
The new UCL is basically a super league is it not?
Moral high ground from a la liga club supporter
You and Italy, your leagues are grounded in racism, bigotry, fraud, match fixing, debt, phoney passports, corrupt directors and incompetent associations.
I don't think giving 10 million more to Getafe is going to solve the problem.
La liga/Scudetto do not need organization, with a Russian oligarch and a couple of Arab sheikhs we would have enough to relaunch some teams.
Worst matches ? Worse than Bayern 5 Plzen 0, PSG 7-Maccabi 2, City 5-Copenhagen 0?.
Maybe it's repetitive but I prefer a PSG-Bayern, Bayern-Chelsea, every week, as they will eventually meet in quarters or semis like every year.
In any case, this is approached as an attack on the Premier League, which it is not. It would be that case if the leagues joined, which it would be a total attack to the local football.
I assume you have at least heard of "game theory"? A participant in a competitive system cannot scupper their own performance if that means it harms their competitiveness. It's just not feasible.
And this is part of the rationale to have a league with certain spend limits (part of the ESL proposition). It would provide a level-playing field with a capped downside.
Still, I remeber vividly each of the clashes with Real Madrid in the Champions League. I even remember the 2003 defeat fondly, while the 2013 defeat still makes me angry. But every meeting with City and Liverpool, the dull draws when both teams are content with a point? Perhaps we'll have those with Real Madrid - bore draws when we're 8th and they're 5th, nothing to play for, just playing a match like they do in American sports because more games = more content = more revenue.
What then is there left to dream of? Playing European giants every single year, then of course they'll do a World Cup every two years. There can be too much of a good thing.
And clubs like Monaco, Ajax, RB Leipzig, and perhaps Napoli and Benifca this year have all sprung up from almost nowhere to go on great runs in the CL. What do they do in the super league? Instead of this Napoli team, and the fans, dreaming of being European champions like they might this year, they might be in division three of a super league and have to wait two years to even think about being kings of Europe, while a bloated superclub can instead stroll to a title they might not even deserve. Then this Napoli team gets picked apart before they're even in the top league, ensuring this exciting team never stood a chance.
You guys weren’t worried about how English leagues would close the gap when yourselves and Madrid were hoovering up all the talent
It would only provide a level playing-field for a handful of participants in a league that has cornered the market, climbed to the top of the pyramid and pulled up the ladder.
Also, God save us from the enforced parity of NA major pro sports, the way it exists today.
If you improve your leagues then those Russian oligarchs and Arab sheikhs you cite and desire might want to invest.
The CL could be improved if they reduced the spread of teams, both Uefa and the super league want to expend with more games that will lose appeal and become mundane and lack away fans. Plus early on in cups/CL you get a few poor games as you do in the World Cup, still it's the best competition. You can't have every game being big matches, it sounds childish and unrealistic. You risk losing the special nature European competitions.
How dull would a World Cup league be instead of what we just witnessed?
If anything we need to walk back the CL, and not expand the World Cup. There's only so many games a player can play to a high level, that fans can commute to, we can't have this ever expanding big match every hour of every day full of atmosphere trajectory, you just dilute everything about the game and the occasion.
There's things mainland Europe can do like merging leagues, distributing money fairly to make other teams compete and grow. You have to wrestle with your own yawn inducing established teams not having the lions share. Here in England we have more cycles and less domination over the decades.
We all know where this is heading. They just want their foot in the door.
I assume from this that the goal would be to have something like the NBA, where big teams face each other from 3 to 11 times every season. Of course, there you have a fixed salary cap that prevents teams from outspending each other and a draft that helps the worst performing teams to get more competitive. In the SL those things operate in favour of the big clubs, as more revenues allow them to spend more, and spending more makes them easier to hoard all the value in the market. Add in relegation as an economic punishment and the impossibility of going back to your domestic league as it belongs to a different association, and I can see no good reason for smaller teams to join. Since oil clubs aren't joining either due to the SL limiting their spending, who is going to join?
The UEFA remark is very naive IMO. Teams get a huge profit from UEFA/FIFA running the whole show, as they organize the 3 richest/most valued sporting events in the world (WC, UCL and Euro), 2 of which can't be replicated by clubs. More importantly, teams don't put money in either. Fans do, through attendance, TV subscriptions, buying from advertisers, merchandising, etc. The few teams/owners that "put money in" for the most part are the ones that the SL is trying to leave out.
You are aware that the ECJ is most certainly going to say that UEFA's model is fine, right? At that point if any clubs want to form the ESL they will have to agree to not compete in UEFA competitions immediately and then also get the permissions of their own domestic leagues to do so, without facing explusion from them.
I see it differently. Separate the teams realistically according to their level to increase the spectacle. Do you find playing Liverpool or City twice a year tiring?
Merging leagues means everything that was criticized of the super league when they talked about th "football for the people" democracy for the little ones. Ending local rivalries and sinking a large number of medium-sized teams.
And here in la liga we can't really complain but the Portuguese, Scottish, Turkish league...
Wouldn't it be more interesting for them to get a place, keep good national players and give a boost to their competition?
I know everyone likes to trot this line out but it frankly sounds like bullshit.
1. The competitiveness of the PL in relation to other leagues is overstated. City and Liverpool have won the last 5 PL titles, compared to Barcelona/Atletico/Madrid in Spain in that period. Serie A has been very competitive for a few years now, no one is flocking to it.
2. Spreading the money out will not prevent top talent from going to Real Madrid/Barcelona instead of other La Liga sides that have a little more money. They have the allure.
3. Midtable clubs in La Liga/Serie A have fantastic talent pipelines already (that are exploited by richer PL sides).
4. The biggest reasons for the PL's popularity: English speaking so more relatable to; Sky marketing as "the best and most competitive league in the world" years before this was fact. Again, we should have seen a massive dip in interest once City started making the PL a 1 team league ala Bundesliga.
We knew you had rich owners, yes.
The most successful PL club of the last 5 years just got accused of massive fraud.Moral high ground from a la liga club supporter
You and Italy, your leagues are grounded in racism, bigotry, fraud, match fixing, debt, phoney passports, corrupt directors and incompetent associations.
Takes time to build a product and for the distribution of wealth, you're selectively citing something that just recently happened in England Italy and Spain that proves nothing either way. I'm talking about how La Liga for example would be better over the last 20 years with fair distribution. You won't get instant flocking, so much damage has been done in corruption in Serie A and unfairness of money.
Spanish language is widely used. Spanish marketing can make that spurious Sky claim as well. Again PL is not that far ahead and there's much to gain for some leagues.
Never gonna happen. Really irks me having to read super league stories over and over again.
You missed out the drug cheating.Moral high ground from a la liga club supporter
You and Italy, your leagues are grounded in racism, bigotry, fraud, match fixing, debt, phoney passports, corrupt directors and incompetent associations.
Better at what, is the question.
Bookmarked for if and when the ESL happens.
By the sounds of things the ESL is not going away,if the uproar last time didn’t dissuade them, nothing will. They will keep going either until it happens on their terms or there will be some sort of negotiation/middle ground with UEFA.
That sounds a bit disingineous. The majority of designated founding members was infact dissuaded and who is left mainly seem to be Barca, Real and Juventus. Two of which seem in a pretty desperate state at the moment.
What’s your point? Did you even see the post I replied to ?
Yes but they need the PL clubs & they’re still pushing it despite what happened (Real, Barca, Juve) - it’s not going away, at least that’s what I think.