Is Southgate underrated by the CAF?

His England contract is up end of the calendar year, and you could probably say it’s up at the end of the Euros anyway. It wouldn’t surprise me if this so-called United interest is all from his agents, trying to get a better deal with England, by namedropping United.
 
Saffron said:
That just betrays an inability to grasp the randomness of tournament football. A certain disallowed goal by Lampard comes to mind. That Germany then went on to beat Argentina with prime Messi 4-0.

Germany was already a potentially WC winning team with prime Özil, Neuer, Lahm, Khedira, Schweinsteiger, Boateng, Muller etc. No shame in losing to them with the likes of Johnson, Upson, Defoe and David James starting.

So what you're essentially saying is 1 loss negates having the highest PPG ever over a 5 year period. Not just negates actually but makes him a complete clown and one of the worst England managers ever, as seems to be the common wisdom.
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Well done capello, beating the mighty san marino and Albania to achieve the highest points per game ever.

International managers are judged on major tournaments. You can dress it up however you want. Capello was an absolute failure as an england manager.
 
Chairman Steve said:
His England contract is up end of the calendar year, and you could probably say it’s up at the end of the Euros anyway. It wouldn’t surprise me if this so-called United interest is all from his agents, trying to get a better deal with England, by namedropping United.
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The pundits are dropping his name too.

 
So yeah the guy hasn't worked as a club manager in like a decade and his record there is both short and poor

Whoever is thinking of him and works at a big club should get sacked immediately
 
giorno said:
So yeah the guy hasn't worked as a club manager in like a decade and his record there is both short and poor

Whoever is thinking of him and works at a big club should get sacked immediately
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Please have someone call from Madrid, surely they would listen?(im being serious)
 
I think he's tactically a bit shit and too negative to manage a big club.. it'd be like having a shit Mourinho without any of the fun he brings

he's suited to international football, as he's brought the togetherness and team-spirit back which has been missing for decades, so it obviously ain't that easy to do
 
I see Southgate as incredibly arrogant and have a hard time with the personality he projects.

Besides, I don't think he's particularly good. He has one of the best national teams in the world right now (and has had for years), but still I have no faith that the team will win anything. I doubt that England`s national team will better than right now for a long time, but Southgate is not able to win anything anyway. And even if you can't really expect the team to win anything, he in no way gets the best out of the team.
 
The things that make Southgate "good" for England he won't have at United.

Super talent in most positions
The English press on his side
The best setup and coaches in the country constantly with him helping his tactical ineptitude

He will be dealing with a higher level of football, more pressure by far and has shown zero in his history that he'll be able to handle that. The guy is more suited to be PFA chairman or some other suit/pr position in the FA rather than a football coach at a top team.
 
He is good a building a dressing room atmosphere and organising set pieces.

buy Tactically he makes Ole look like a genius. And the football England play is trugent. His club mangeing career was awful.
Why people are expecting him to be a success is beyond me.
 
Even if Southgate wins the Euros I still won't rate him. Fernando Santos won the Euros and I don't rate him either.

Seven defensive players on at all times, playing to vibes and counter. Cautious, even when boldness is needed e.g. Vs France at Qatar 22. Incapable of managing leads e.g. Italy in the last Euros final, Croatia at Russia 2018.

Southgate is blessed to have inherited one of the most talented generations of English players since 1966. Yet he's still dragging along a half knackered Jordan Henderson.

No, no, no, no, no.

Do not rate.

PS) Putting Southgate in the United dugout would make me question what the f-k kind of football vision Ineos has. Definitely not Omar Barrada's Barcelona football.
 
Southgate is a great man manager but it’s also easy to do it with the national team as player power is relatively low in a squad that the manager can chop and change from one set of games to the next.

Tactically, he is very untested as the objective of the game in international football is to not make mistakes rather than be innovative and make adjustments week after week. He’s at his heart and head a safe and risk averse manager, who sets up his team like a bloke who wears both a belt and suspenders.

He has overwhelming quality at the tournament this summer and there is no excuse for him to not play a more expansive style.
 
I love Southgate as manager of England because I genuinely think he holds them back and stops them reaching their full potential. The thought of him as United manager...is awful.
 
Southgate would be the most 'meh' managerial signing ever. It would be up there with Potter to Chelsea minus the club pedigree.
 
Why the feck aren’t Liverpool linked with him, they literally have a vacancy going!?

Would be the most horrific managerial appointment of all time.
 
Spark said:
Why the feck aren’t Liverpool linked with him, they literally have a vacancy going!?

Would be the most horrific managerial appointment of all time.
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Great question. The press should ask klopp, spitty and slippy what they think of Southgate as new Liverpool manager. I'm sure they'd be open to it like Neville and Keane.
 
Spark said:
Why the feck aren’t Liverpool linked with him, they literally have a vacancy going!?

Would be the most horrific managerial appointment of all time.
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It's purely down to the connection to Ashworth and it gives them an angle for more interest as it's the international break. Gary Neville is claiming they are strong rumours but they're not strong of nobody reputable is reporting it.

With all the work that's needed and new people coming in it makes no sense to hire a manager who'll be busy until mid July, even if he wasn't an underwhelming appt.
 
Jev said:
To me it seems like an England manager can never really win. There’s so much partisanship, and the rivalry between clubs is so fierce, that people fixate on things of little importance, like a rival player playing instead of one of their own. Was Henderson always the best option in central midfield? Probably not. Was he so much worse than the alternatives that he significantly hampered England’s chances? Almost certainly not. Does it really matter whether he or someone else is the 21st pick in the Euros squad? Not at all.

As it stands, England have arguably been the best-playing side in two of the three major tournaments he’s presided over. Had the margins fallen their way, they would have had a World Cup final (possible title) and a Euros title. They also deserved to beat France, probably the strongest squad in the tournament, at the World Cup. Yes, Southgate has been overly cautious, borderline defeatist, at times considering the talent at his disposal, particularly in not going for it in extra time against Italy. But he seems to have learned from that and adapted.

So, while he has his faults, I don’t see any rational arguments against him being a very good England manager. To me it shows how fickle perception can be in football; if Lady Luck had been kind to him on a couple of occasions, he would be hailed as a national hero.
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He's a bit of a funny one, Southgate. He sort of fluked his way into the England job at the perfect time. The current England side has an amazing group of players to choose from, and they've been extremely lucky with their groups in the tournaments as well.

A lot of this is about timing and coincidences. Bad luck with your group and the road to the final can be problematic. It's very easy to see which teams can go far. Whoever came second in Englands group, which England did, would have a much easier path compared to winning the group like Belgium did in 2018.

France WC road to final: Argentina, then they would face Uruguay or Portugal, then they would face Belgium or Brazil, Croatia or England in the final.

Belgium WC: Japan, Brazil, France.

Croatia: Denmark, Russia, England,

England? Columbia, Sweden or Switzerland, Russia or Croatia. Defeated.

Euros 2 years later: Easy group followed by a match against a dysfunctional Germany side, then Ukraine in the quarter finals followed by Denmark in the semi final.

Just by being in the group they were, which determines the last 16, quarter final and semifinal, England were always odds on to go far in both tournaments. In the 2018 world cup they lost their group match against Belgium, they lost against Croatia and then they lost the bronze final against Belgium. The only half decent opposition they won against was Columbia. A slightly different group and they would've been knocked out in the last 16 rather than the semi final.
 
He's probably decent enough to finish top 6 consistently. He'll not come close to challenging City for the league title over 38 games.

Might win a cup, but he doesn't seem to be able to get past the last hurdle in cup competitions.

Basically, it's exactly where we are now and it's just a sideways move for us.
 
The way I see it - it's impossible to know how well he has done as long as he is in charge of England. His results with England have been very good, but have they been better than what you could expect from a good manager with the players he has at his disposal ? Probably not.

And his time at Boro was....average at best. He was lucky to get the U21 job when he did - and he did really well with them - but once again, he had some amazing players so that was perhaps not a big surprise.

I am not saying Southgate wont do well at United, but it's not like he has done anything huge to persuade me that he is the right person.
 
Would this be considered even a little bit, if we were talking about a non-English manager having managed another national team for 7-8 years without winning anything? Of course it wouldn't.

Having just listened to part of The Overlap podcast, you hear Ian Wright (who I actually like) saying he could see Southgate managing England, because he wears suits, whereas ETH wears turtle necks. What the feck is actually going on? God I hope the new management has more sense than that.
 
Mike Smalling said:
Would this be considered even a little bit, if we were talking about a non-English manager having managed another national team for 7-8 years without winning anything? Of course it wouldn't.

Having just listened to part of The Overlap podcast, you hear Ian Wright (who I actually like) saying he could see Southgate managing England, because he wears suits, whereas ETH wears turtle necks. What the feck is actually going on? God I hope the new management has more sense than that.
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He's a terrible choice. If Brexit Jim's first significant act is to make Southgate the United manager then he can feck right off. Would Liverpool or City consider Southgate? Absolutely not.
 
I think people dont realise how different international football is. There's a long line of fantastic international managers who didnt make a dent in club football, and Southgate would be an appalling choice for United regardless, as I don't think Englands 'style' is remotely enjoyable or sophisticated. At club level you need to have several ways to win based on different challenges every week from bigger clubs, smaller clubs, home, away, injury crises, big match coming next so rotation needed etc.

I just do not see it translating to a job as intense as United at all, and if our options are potter, southgate and de zerbi, I would absolutely stick with ten hag.
 
Mike Smalling said:
Would this be considered even a little bit, if we were talking about a non-English manager having managed another national team for 7-8 years without winning anything? Of course it wouldn't.

Having just listened to part of The Overlap podcast, you hear Ian Wright (who I actually like) saying he could see Southgate managing England, because he wears suits, whereas ETH wears turtle necks. What the feck is actually going on? God I hope the new management has more sense than that.
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great point. Imagine us looking at an Italy manager who's had a reasonably solid 7 years with italy, away from club football. In fact, Mancini would make more sense than southgate
 
I don't believe this at all to be honest. Maybe someone in INEOS brought up the idea of Southgate and they are just leaking this to see what the fan sentiment on him is.

It would be such a risky appointment. It would be less risky giving the job to Carrick or Mckenna who are in the Championship. Southgate pretty much got the England job because he was a company man who projected the image of what they wanted from an England manager, especially after the PR disasters of Cappello, McClaren and Allardyce, add in Redknapp who never officially got the job but was clouded in scandal as the favourite.

If he had the same bang average squads that Hodgson did, he'd be nowhere near. I'm also old enough to remember he was pretty average at Middlesborough. Going from club football to the U21s is usually a sign someone isn't cut out for top level management but in Southgate fashion, he's lucked his way to the top.
 
Spark said:
Why the feck aren’t Liverpool linked with him, they literally have a vacancy going!?

Would be the most horrific managerial appointment of all time.
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The media are pushing it because they don’t want to see united at the top again.

Carragher and co would be thrilled if we appointed him and less than happy if Liverpool did.

They want alonso. Funny that.
 
Danny Murphy was saying how he thought Southgate would fit at United then got asked if he woukd take him for Liverpool and said No! Sums it up really. I hope it's all just an awful rumour. There's nothing in Southgate'S body of work that would suggest he's fit to become Manchester United manager. So depressing to even think about it.
 
El Jefe said:
I don't believe this at all to be honest. Maybe someone in INEOS brought up the idea of Southgate and they are just leaking this to see what the fan sentiment on him is.

It would be such a risky appointment. It would be less risky giving the job to Carrick or Mckenna who are in the Championship. Southgate pretty much got the England job because he was a company man who projected the image of what they wanted from an England manager, especially after the PR disasters of Cappello, McClaren and Allardyce, add in Redknapp who never officially got the job but was clouded in scandal as the favourite.

If he had the same bang average squads that Hodgson did, he'd be nowhere near. I'm also old enough to remember he was pretty average at Middlesborough. Going from club football to the U21s is usually a sign someone isn't cut out for top level management but in Southgate fashion, he's lucked his way to the top.
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He hasn't managed in club football since like 2006? And even then not to a very high standard.

I understand how he fits in with the long term plan the FA laid out for the England team. International football is different, you don't get much time to work on tactics or 'philosophy' so building a team spirit with a core group makes sense. Sometimes a country gets lucky and a majority of their best players play for the same club, like Spain under Del Bosque, but England don't have that and probably never will.

I think Southgate's done well at building that unity, but his actual ability to coach football and implement tactical changes, especially mid game, has been horribly exposed at times. You could say that if England don't win the euros this summer then he will have under delivered with what was available to him.

This doesn't sound like the 'best in class' guy INEOS would be looking at. In fact, Southgate sounds more like a sporting/football director archetype now, not a head coach. It just wouldn't make sense to me at all, and I don't think the fans would be patient with Southgate if things started badly like they might do with another manager whom replaced EtH. There's no personal connection to him, in fact I imagine most people who remember him as a player and then Boro manager thought he was a whiney prick...

I think it's not surprising that most of the links come from journos who cover United but only as their job, and that they haven't bothered to link him to any other club that might need a manager soon. Anyone who is sympathetic to the club has reported on the rumours secondhand, whilst downplaying them based on their own intel.
 
It’s a hell of a lot easier to build squad harmony for a few weeks or a month at a time, with a group of lads who are motivated to represent their country and know that if they act the bollocks, you can simply drop them from future squads.

It’s a hell of a lot more difficult to maintain morale with a club squad, full of high value players on lengthy contracts, with different wage demands and expectations, different levels of self motivation and a whole set of more complex concerns that come with balancing playing time and delivering consistent performances across a season.

Southgate plays the nice guy well for short spells at a time, in a job that celebrates him losing semi finals and finals, but he would absolutely fold under the weight of managing a club half the size of United.
 
diarm said:
It’s a hell of a lot easier to build squad harmony for a few weeks or a month at a time, with a group of lads who are motivated to represent their country and know that if they act the bollocks, you can simply drop them from future squads.

It’s a hell of a lot more difficult to maintain morale with a club squad, full of high value players on lengthy contracts, with different wage demands and expectations, different levels of self motivation and a whole set of more complex concerns that come with balancing playing time and delivering consistent performances across a season.

Southgate plays the nice guy well for short spells at a time, in a job that celebrates him losing semi finals and finals, but he would absolutely fold under the weight of managing a club half the size of United.
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Exactly. All these people saying he's a nice guy and a great man manager are not appreciating that none of that is transferable to the United job and is under the context you've laid out .
 
ForeverRed1 said:
The media are pushing it because they don’t want to see united at the top again.

Carragher and co would be thrilled if we appointed him and less than happy if Liverpool did.

They want alonso. Funny that.
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The Southgate links need to feck off.

I'm all for having a world class coach to replace ETH if one is available, however, it's so undermining to not only have endless speculation about a manager who hasn't been sacked nor is likely to be sacked before the end of the season, but then have the leading candidate be GARETH SOUTHGATE.

Neville and Keane demand standards and constantly rim Klopp/Pep as two of the greatest then think Southgate is good enough for United? Make it make sense. I'd rather give ETH a 10 year contract than appoint Sir Gaz.
 
Spark said:
Why the feck aren’t Liverpool linked with him, they literally have a vacancy going!?

Would be the most horrific managerial appointment of all time.
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Because the person in charge there does not have a relationship with Southgate.

This new chap you've got coming in knows Southgate, has worked with him and trusts him.

He's obviously not the best manager in the world but could he be the best fit for your new hierarchy? Quite possibly.
 
duffer said:
Because the person in charge there does not have a relationship with Southgate.

This new chap you've got coming in knows Southgate, has worked with him and trusts him.

He's obviously not the best manager in the world but could he be the best fit for your new hierarchy? Quite possibly.
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I disagree entirely that he'd be a "best fit" for our new hierarchy.

I do, however, think Southgate could quite possibly be a fantastic replacement for Pochettino. He could really sort out the in-team squabbling and unify the fanbase.
 
Spark said:
Why the feck aren’t Liverpool linked with him, they literally have a vacancy going!?

Would be the most horrific managerial appointment of all time.
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duffer said:
Because the person in charge there does not have a relationship with Southgate.

This new chap you've got coming in knows Southgate, has worked with him and trusts him.

He's obviously not the best manager in the world but could he be the best fit for your new hierarchy? Quite possibly.
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Spark said:
I disagree entirely that he'd be a "best fit" for our new hierarchy.

I do, however, think Southgate could quite possibly be a fantastic replacement for Pochettino. He could really sort out the in-team squabbling and unify the fanbase.
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This is underrating is descending into a bottomless pit, now we have fans wishing him onto their rivals just for lols
 
I always have a feeling he’s a bigger charlatan than Benitez.

Somebody has seen the link with Ashworth and Southgate and made 5.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
He's (probably) taking the piss/trolling you, mate.
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Although it would be hilarious to see Southgate appointed, I'm not taking the piss when I say that I can see a reason that the new hierarchy might want someone like Southgate (and specifically Southgate given his history with your new boss).
 
If the worse does happen and he is actually appointed. At the very least we can feel comfortable knowing the experiment wont last very long. He’d struggle to see out a season.
 
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